Chronicles of a New Eden - Becoming Pay-to-Win

SBFord

Chronicles of a New Eden - Becoming Pay-to-Win

It's no secret that the model for subscription-based MMORPGs is rapidly shrinking. Where coughing up fifteen dollars a month used to be par for the course in most online games, things are shifting towards the "freemium" subscription model where the cost of entry for games is free but as soon as you step inside you're likely to be funneled down a corridor made of hands that are constantly groping you until you finally throw them your wallet just to make the awkward torture stop.

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Talonsin

Well, that is the far side of one end of the spectrum. My favorite lines:

"EVE Online remains the healthy and exciting game it always was?"

This chart seems to deny that: http://jestertrek.com/eve/players/eve-players-since2008.png



"unless I knew how to fly the damn thing all of that extra money is going to evaporate under fire from better, more skilled players"

How long does it take to learn how to press a button? You make it seem like most Eve battles are one vs one but they are not. Can a group of players buy a big advantage, spend a week honing their skills and then devastate a corp in null with stealth bombers? Yes


I dont have any issues with Eve and really like the game but this article is clearly written by someone who loves the game and wants to promote it. In a few years when I retire and actually have the time to play, I will be back in Eve, but I can not deny it has issues.

JobeArthur

Doesn't matter what they do. Fozziesov pretty much sealed this games lack of having a future.
I am just glad I was able to play the game for 8 good years before it lost its direction and turned into what it is now.

Raxxo82

Fanboi much?

arunasme

Talonsin said:

Well, that is the far side of one end of the spectrum. My favorite lines:



"EVE Online remains the healthy and exciting game it always was?"



This chart seems to deny that: http://jestertrek.com/eve/players/eve-players-since2008.png







"unless I knew how to fly the damn thing all of that extra money is going to evaporate under fire from better, more skilled players"



How long does it take to learn how to press a button? You make it seem like most Eve battles are one vs one but they are not. Can a group of players buy a big advantage, spend a week honing their skills and then devastate a corp in null with stealth bombers? Yes





I dont have any issues with Eve and really like the game but this article is clearly written by someone who loves the game and wants to promote it. In a few years when I retire and actually have the time to play, I will be back in Eve, but I can not deny it has issues.

Im not sure with that graph, we all know eve had its period when the average online number was well above 40k not to meantion peaks of 60k at times

Wizardry

but as soon as you step inside you're likely to be funneled down a corridor made of hands that are constantly groping you until you finally throw them your wallet just to make the awkward torture stop

Corridor you say ??We used to DREAM of living in a corridor,that would be a palace to us !!!


I just want to get back to buying a game once and then be done with spending.If these games are going to grind more money out of us they had better offer more than just a login screen.

I could pvp 24/7 if i wanted in UnrealTournament for FREE,ALWAYS for FREE,that was then in 1998/9 and still in 2016 and when their new game comes out it will be the same again ALL for FREE.
So think some game like Eve or any similar warrants spending money on they are badly mistaken.Using the Eve example that game released in such a sad state is it was never worth more than maybe 15 bucks.Adding in monetary systems is really bad because it encourages cheating/corruption of our games,monetary should NOT be tradeable ,transfered to other characters in any way what so ever.It really makes one wonder if the developer/s in this case CCP is in on the action not only upfront but also behind the scenes.

pinktailz

if only they put money from dust,valkyrie, etc into good content and make it less space a$$hat simulator ~ heh

Zoobi

When this game came out, financial attrition in game was THE way of defeating your enemies. As soon as plex sales came out that part of the game, an essential part, died and it became pay to win.

simsalabim77

You can pay for skillpoints, but it's not going to matter just like it doesn't matter if a new player were to buy a 10 year old character. A new player thinking he can insta-win by spending a load of cash on skill points and a shiny battleship is going to get tackled on the gate and shredded by a bunch of 3 day old frigate pilots. Then he'll complain that the game is unbalanced and spend the remainder of his days missioning in hi-sec. 

I forgot to add, he'll probably get scammed by Goons in the process of all this, and end up as an article on themittani.com

Franciscourant

P2W = Paying more money to get significant gameplay advantage over other players. If it's possible to do that in EVE Online, it would fit the definition of Pay to Win.

TiamatRoar

"The fact that just about every pilot I've talked to on this column has told me at one point or another about how they first played and quit EVE (often several times in a row) before it stuck, tells me that EVE has a new player retention problem. If skill point trading is going to make that problem shrink for new players who are willing to farm the ISK (or outright pay for it), then I can't see any reason to be against it."


So... basically, their idea of retaining new players is saying "Hey new player, give us a bunch of money and you'll be caught up to everyone!"

Honestly, that's... not really about new player retention. That's about fishing for whales, a tried and true F2P strategy for money. Only difference in Eve is those whales have a good chance of losing a good chunk of their investment after getting their newbie selves kicked all over, in which case I'd be kinda surprised if they were retained for very long, too.

simsalabim77

They don't retain new players because the new player experience is absolutely atrocious and has been for a long time. I think this is more aimed at players who have played for a bit, and are somewhat committed to the game, but realize that they need months worth of training core skills before they can fly what they want. 

Rhygarth

Eve has been P2W for years with plex, you can pump as much cash into the game as you like and buy more or less anything

Enyov

Without going into detail it has already been possible to trade characters legally through the game, so it has been what most would consider to be P2W.


Honestly though, I think the new system is actually a good way for them to get or at least hold onto a little bit more of the new players. It gives the players something that EVE has always lacked, a sense of achievable progression.

Instead of simply waiting for something to happen, now you can actively build up ISK towards whatever skill it is you want to obtain. To put it quite simply, they have turned the in-game currency into an experience bar.



Also, unless a player is just multi-boxing, it isn't really possible to be the "Best of the Best" in EVE. Sure 1v1's will be a bit easier, but it still really just comes down to the knowledge of the game, and with EVE, there is certainly a lot of knowledge to be had.

Cergorach

Zoobi said:

When this game came out, financial attrition in game was THE way of defeating your enemies. As soon as plex sales came out that part of the game, an essential part, died and it became pay to win.

The system was already well in place when I started in 2005. And while it might be technically P2W, in reality it isn't winning in EVE Online require a lot of money and a lot of people. The Alliance economies are so extremely big that the amount of PLEX required to make a significant impact in that economy is extreme, currently 28 PLEX is around 35 billion isk, that sounds like a lot, but it also costs €490, a 10 year old character (active and skilling that entire time) will set you back €2500. You can outfit him with a carrier for not that much more, but how much impact will a single character have? Not much. There are folks that are playing with a trillion isk (€14.900) to just buy high SP characters. More then a few traders play the market with trillions (tens of thousands euros worth of isk).
http://www.eve-markets.net/detail.php?typeid=29668

Not only that, 1 trillion isk is currently about 800 PLEX, now think multiple times that to even begin being a small player on a far larger stage. What exactly do you think it will do to the price when you dump such amounts on the market? It goes down (a LOT). Selling, acquiring such resources costs what everything else costs in EVE Online, time. You'll need to hire Alliances, learn who you can trust and who not, etc.

Trying to 'win' in a big expensive ship in you lonesome will quickly get you killed by a couple of folks in far cheaper ships and characters. Multiboxing (running multiple characters at the same time) might gain you some power, but controlling more then two accounts at the same time in small scale combat requires Korean like APM. I've run 12 accounts at the same time in the past, that is interesting for long range travel through relatively save environments, but not combat! Mining is semi doable with that many. But 12x 10 year accounts is going to cost you a lot of money and that can't be redeemed right away for isk due to how the market works, how many 100+ million SP characters are available, etc.

To actually 'WIN!(tm)' at EVE Online requires a ton of money, think multimillionaires and still a ton of time. I doubt many would be willing to take the time.

Looking at the PLEX prices, I think there just isn't all that much supply, so not many people are willing to P2W at this time in EVE.

CCP made to many systems in EVE to 'accessible' years ago, the amount of work and research I put into some project is just ridiculous. But puzzling that out was some of the 'fun' of EVE for me, the market often changing drastically after each major patch was often very interesting and would present new challenges. But around the planetary resources patches things really started going downhill imho and after a couple building/researching stuff was suddenly dead easy (in EVE terms). Pretty much when I bowed out. I really want to play Valkery, if it's fun and quickly accessible (and not like fights in EVE Online: hours waiting, fight over in less then 10min), I might resubscribe to EVE Online. Same goes for the PC remake of Dust514, Dust514 just wasn't, especially not on a PS3...

Talonsin

As far as the new system being good for new players, it can also be bad.

Good example: I'm new and purchased the skills to explore site and am much more interested in the game

Bad Example: I'm new and purchased a bunch of combat skills but I still get owned and called a noob in chat. I think I will go and find a more friendly game

I understand the business side of this choice and it does bring in more revenue initially. We will have to wait and see if it brings in more players or forces more people to leave the game.

Jaboz

Anyone who thinks this actually makes EVE pay-to-win clearly does not understand the concept of pay-to-win. Is it a good idea, and being implemented properly? Maybe, but probably not. But the bottom line is RL money can already buy characters that fly that shiny ship, and buy said shiny as well.

Drakolus

Every time I hear about EVE, I am more and more happy that I quit 2 years ago and stayed away .

goemoe

Drakolus said:

Every time I hear about EVE, I am more and more happy that I quit 2 years ago and stayed away .

As am I. The author has just given me the reason not even to think about returning. You always could buy ships for real money which has been bad somehow, but acceptable. Buying skill points is a no-go. EvE attracts an unusual amount of assholes and griefers. Buying skill points in this environment is unaccaptable.

There's already a way to skip the ISK grind, what's so bad about skipping the skill grind too?

What so bad about skipping the whole game? Skilling and waiting to fly the next ship, using the next gun, being able to do ... something is one of the key features of this game - as long as you don't enjoy ganking, griefing and harrassing.

And btw: Being able to buy skills and equipment is the very definition auf P2W. I can't believe who someone can even think about denying that.

RIP Eve Online.

toxicmango

It does not get more blatant of a cash grab than this, and such cash grabs speak of a dying game where the tactic is to squeeze as much cash possible out of players (old and new) before the whole thing goes under.

jinxyjunk

Talonsin said:

How long does it take to learn how to press a button? You make it seem like most Eve battles are one vs one but they are not. Can a group of players buy a big advantage, spend a week honing their skills and then devastate a corp in null with stealth bombers? Yes

Actually the answer is no. The idea that Eve is pay-to-win at all is laughable to any Eve player. You can buy the character with the most skill points, and every ship in the game and you will lose it the next day. There is no way to "devastate a corp" in null with stealth bombers, aside from parking a bomber stealthed in every system they occupy and just leave it there idle 24 hrs a day. However you could do that with a new character with a few weeks of training.

jinxyjunk

Drakolus said:

And btw: Being able to buy skills and equipment is the very definition auf P2W. I can't believe who someone can even think about denying that.

Wrong. Pay to get a character that can fly a lot of ships, yes. To actually "win" there needs to be a definition of "winning" in Eve, which really doesn't exist. I guarantee that 99 out of 100 times the "paying person expecting to win" is going to walk away pissed at losing every ship they bought over and over.

Astropuyo

Meh not really pay to win.

You could own pretty much whatever you wanted but if you can't play obviously you are going to have problems.

Even if it went p2w I'd still be able to win being a Eve player for almost a decade now (Damn....a decade...).
Because I like the vast majority of current players have been here so long that we can combat in our sleep or even afk as many have been known to do.

Besides I run/ran with a pack of some of the most hated eve players ever.
I'm most happy in my little bubble of protection. Bring on the p2w.

Hulluck

The pay to win aspect of this game is not buying other peoples skill points or characters.  The pay to win aspect are alliances who can rebuild their massive fleets or fund them with real world money.  It makes attrition almost impossible if pockets are deep enough. Or, if  that alliance has a means to fund their fleets with  unsanctioned RMT connections. Thanks to PLEX making it easier.   A few big names have been caught in this regard, and there are probably more doing it than most suspect to some extent.  These alliances a few of them are so big that if CCP acted. These alliances could just start a walkout. This has happened. CCP was powerless to do anything but comply. Change their course.

 Cat was out of the bag the day that PLEX was introduced which made a direct connection ( a sanctioned measurement)  between isk and real world money.   PLEX was CCP's way of getting their hands on some of the money being made by unsanctioned rmt.  Joey the new player is no threat regardless of how much real world money they spend.   A veteran corp / alliance though using it to supplement losses or gain fleet strength is an entirely different story and rmt sanctioned or not revolving around PLEX can very much be a determining factor.

Wandris

I would have resubbed and stayed subbed for probably 10+ years with 2-3 accounts if not for one thing, a name change for my primary character. Seems ridiculous that the company and EvE community stubbornly rejects permitting this. It was not in an attempt to obscure my identity but to claim the one I use across every game I play. I even tried escalating the issue with them, but to no avail. I even considered extracting all my skills but that would cost $500+ and a ton of isk on skill books. So the way I see it is all this talk of P2W doesn't really matter the cost of skill extractors is so high they are going to be out of reach to most people. Perhaps large corps or alliances will benefit by upgrading their new players but on an individual level there will be few players willing to pay that much real money to win in a game that they are not invested in. By the time you are really into EVE you will probably be near to the point of diminishing returns and the skill injectors will not be as helpful.

v4nnz444

this is a good news.
you guys who deny this, really need to reflect the meaning of 'WIN'.
as for some certain people (like me) to be able owned your enemies, blow them or even able to harrass them are NOT the meaning of WIN (for me)

The meaning of WIN for me that is able to control my mind in every aspects of the game, both ego and intellegent so that i could create most decent character in my own point of view.

for some people that maybe still has mind; spend money, harras people and able to beat enemies are the meaning of WINS.
let me tell you, that way of thinking are just too old, out of dated and not very cool.