SWG before the creature handler nerf was so amazing, bugs included... Getting half a server together a few weeks into the game to take a city back from two sith who wandered in, fighting giant wild life that shows up in the city some how, having stormtroopers land from the sky and blast the rebel scum your fighting and then saluting you, hugging darth vader, completing JTL flying the buggy quests but still finishing it, watching a swarm of bounty hunters that are actually players swarm my jedi buddies house when we knew they were coming so we left a disco droid and a dancer outside with fog and everything... Idk that game gave me more memories in the short time I played it then the last decade of mmorpgs combined....
SWG before the creature handler nerf was so amazing, bugs included... Getting half a server together a few weeks into the game to take a city back from two sith who wandered in, fighting giant wild life that shows up in the city some how, having stormtroopers land from the sky and blast the rebel scum your fighting and then saluting you, hugging darth vader, completing JTL flying the buggy quests but still finishing it, watching a swarm of bounty hunters that are actually players swarm my jedi buddies house when we knew they were coming so we left a disco droid and a dancer outside with fog and everything... Idk that game gave me more memories in the short time I played it then the last decade of mmorpgs combined....
I just need to know, which CH nerf, there were so many?
SWG before the creature handler nerf was so amazing, bugs included... Getting half a server together a few weeks into the game to take a city back from two sith who wandered in, fighting giant wild life that shows up in the city some how, having stormtroopers land from the sky and blast the rebel scum your fighting and then saluting you, hugging darth vader, completing JTL flying the buggy quests but still finishing it, watching a swarm of bounty hunters that are actually players swarm my jedi buddies house when we knew they were coming so we left a disco droid and a dancer outside with fog and everything... Idk that game gave me more memories in the short time I played it then the last decade of mmorpgs combined....
I agree. Hunting for the Gorax on Endor, Guild runs on Friday night to get pearls from Krayt dragons, farming gurk King hides, Peko Peko feathers and Kimogila scales to make RIS armor and runs in the DWB to craft Mando armor were good times.
SWG before the creature handler nerf was so amazing, bugs included... Getting half a server together a few weeks into the game to take a city back from two sith who wandered in, fighting giant wild life that shows up in the city some how, having stormtroopers land from the sky and blast the rebel scum your fighting and then saluting you, hugging darth vader, completing JTL flying the buggy quests but still finishing it, watching a swarm of bounty hunters that are actually players swarm my jedi buddies house when we knew they were coming so we left a disco droid and a dancer outside with fog and everything... Idk that game gave me more memories in the short time I played it then the last decade of mmorpgs combined....
I agree. Hunting for the Gorax on Endor, Guild runs on Friday night to get pearls from Krayt dragons, farming gurk King hides, Peko Peko feathers and Kimogila scales to make RIS armor and runs in the DWB to craft Mando armor were good times.
We did drunken Krayt runs....the old 20 man drunken Krayt hunts were, well more fun than profitable, but damn what I remember of them is still gold. Never hunt in a 20 man group with two docs when the two docs are the most drunk...and the only Combat Medic you brought can be heard passed out snoring through his mic for thirty minutes already.
MMOs are still niche. The niche is larger but it's a small cut of gaming. Don't delude yourself. We are a pitcher of water compared to the pond.
DLC itself is a MMO thing.
Nope
Okay so what is a MMO if not playing with friends all over the world doing quests from hub to hub? That's literally what you're doing in games like destiny + others which are console titles.
I'm not sure how old you are, but I remember when console games did not have DLC it all just came with the game.. you know who always had paid DLC or Xpacs? MMOS. dlc is a mmo thing for sure.
The lines are blurred but it's been happening for a while now.
"Beliefs don't change facts. Facts, if you're reasonable, should change your beliefs."
"The Society that separates its scholars from its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting by fools."
Currently: Games Audio Engineer, you didn't hear what I heard, you heard what I wanted you to hear.
SWG enjoyed it for every second while I played it for 1½ years. SWTOR never installed it. That pretty much sums it up. SWG allowed me to be truly part of a Star Wars world, go through so many professions and finally unlock the force, journey through it. Hide my visibility from the public, feel the thrill of being hunted by bounties and their covert allies as well as going through the jedi trials....all of this pre-cu.
What SWTOR has done for its players? Gave them some non important stories made for the mainstream media that can be found in those single player games.
But you haven't even played SWTOR.
This is what I'm talking about.. people just bash SWTOR without even playing it and say it's worse than SWG, when SWG was actually trying to become SWTOR.. but failed at it.
Ummm, no. We miss what SWG was BEFORE it tried to become SWTOR. And yeah, we wouldn't want anything to take, y'know, time, or effort. I tried SWTOR, the story was already written. Nothing to do but follow the bouncing NPC.
Quote: "Okay so what is a MMO if not playing with friends all over the world doing quests from hub to hub? That's literally what you're doing in games like destiny + others which are console titles."
Response: that dosen't make a game an MMO. I play mostly sandboxes. We don't log in and do quests or roam from hub to hub and those are MMOs.
What you are describing is a Multiplayer Online experience yes, but not necessarily a Massively Multiplayer one. Your missing the 1000s of people online at a time on that server part.
Actually at first MMORPGs didn't have dlc either. You went to the store and bought an expansion just like any other game. No one wanted to download 100s of Megabytes of data over our 9600/14.4 modems. MMOs and single player computer games may have adapted them sooner than consoles, true.
You're gonna piss alot of people off because all of us that been around the block and then tried TOR will know better.
I played SWTOR for about 3 months and quit. It was repeititve, boring, unimaginative. When I played there was no space(just a spaceship) my class bounty hunter's end game gear looked rediculously bad; as in the worse armor set i've seen in an mmo. Everything is so generic that there was a side by side comparison of a WoW Map and SWTOR map that looked damn near identical.
There was no end game progress except for PVP gear(Although I admit huttball was unique and fun). Tons of exploits early on that led to overpowered classes. Absolutely nothing to do in game once you got your pvp gear except re-roll. Everyone was a jedi or sith leading to the legend of powerful beings to the wayside.
There is a reason the game cost 500 million and it tanked hard and then went F2P. Its generic except for voice over's(which you skip after your character says the same dialog the 80th time) and huttball(which comes down to whomever has the better gear or OP class).
SWG is leaps and bounds ahead of TOR; not just because I prefer sandbox mmorpgs and freedom, but because of the intricate crafting system, player housing uniqueness of classes and legendaryness of jedi's.
What you call only oneclass that can heal or buff too hardcore; I call great since you need to work together with people and can't solo everything.
MMOs are still niche. The niche is larger but it's a small cut of gaming. Don't delude yourself. We are a pitcher of water compared to the pond -----------------Isilith Tehroth said: When an mmorpg becomes a pop culture phenom like WoW and gets millions of people that never played an MMO into the genre; it no longer becomes niche.
We hear all the things people want to champion about SWG but if I can be honest, SWG lived a little bit longer trying to become what SWTOR is today. Had they had all that stuff in the game at launch who knows, they still might be here and there would be no SWTOR.
This isn't popular opinion but I will explain.
Before CU and NGE, SWG was already going down, that's why they added all that stuff because WoW had all that stuff and was doing incredible. SWG PRE CU had a lack of direction, no real content to drive the player, hard to understand combat system, bugged out quests, etc etc..
Well guess what happens a few years later.. TOR comes out with all that NGE and CU stuff in there, less bugs, and content that would drive the player..
Where TOR and SWG begins to differ is the depth of the gameplay itself.
Let's forget for a second that in SWG you can be a Wookiee Bounty Hunter that sells droids on the side (my character). Lets forget for a second that In TOR you can be a Cyborg Sith Assassin that sells weapon mods on the side (also my character.)
What's a eye opener is how long it takes to do any of these things in both games...
SWG is huge. Lots of class combinations and deep crafting, but everything just takes too long to do. Cant be a Jedi, can't be a Bounty Hunter, can't do anything iconic until you amass a insane amount of skill points to unlock the paths that will eventually get you there. You can't count on it happening in a quick or even reasonable amount of time.
JESUS OF NAZARETH it takes soooo long to do anything in SWG. The world size is huge buuuuutt planets are just as static as SWTOR tbh even more static than TOR just a lot bigger. In SWG you can't just heal yourself, you have to get healed by a medic and get your buffs from a entertainer.. cool ideas but give us the option to buff and heal without having to depend on other people. TOR gets you right into the action from level 1 you feel important and feel as if you are going to have a place in the galaxy, I admire that even if it is a little bit shallow.
SWG was just too deep for its own good. I wanted to make my wookie and jump right into catching bounties not spend 3 weeks shooting at random wompa rats in the desert to level up my carbine skills.
I did enjoy the fact that if you are a certain faction the other faction will automatically shoot at you or try to kill you in their zones, but this is also true of TOR.. the difference is in SWG you can switch factions at any point which is also very cool.
I'm not saying TOR isn't shallow at times outside of the awesome story, because for sure it is. But it is still pound for pound the better star wars mmo.
The two games are very different, like apples and oranges. If you want to jump straight into iconic star wars action play TOR.. if you are looking for a sandbox in Star Wars skin then get SWG. My wishlist
SWTOR:
Add Races: Wookies, Droids, Trandoshan
Add Class: Entertainer
Add: Free Flight in space
Fix: PVP Imbalance (*this is every mmo but tor is really bad) add more open world PVP
Allow: Players to Defect to the other side of the war. (Jedi become Sith, Sith become Jedi, Bounty Hunters take jobs from Republic etc)
Add: Planet exploration. Basically make each planet about 50% bigger.
Fix: Crafting, make it more meaningful AKA some of the best gear/mods can only be crafted
SWG:
Stay dead and let SWTOR absorb the few cool parts of the game.
TLDR: I dont get all the hype about swg being the best ever mmo when it made all these changes to become more like what TOR is today. SWG would have killed to be what TOR is right now.. the key difference is one is themepark, one is sandbox but the general public is all sandbox is automatically better. Buzzword here is sandbox.. idk why folks get so crazy over the word.
"WHOA SANDBOX GAME I CAN MAKE THINGS AND IT TAKES FOREVER TO MAKE THEM SO GAME IS DEEP NOW , GAME IS CLASSIC"
EDIT: Because somebody was crying about a certain word being in here TWICE.
You relaize you sound just like a swtor fan boy nobody cares about your opinions.
"May Your Head Explode And Blood Swell From The Wound" - Hashcow
Totally different games, and it is likely that the fans of one will probably not be a fan of both.
This pretty much sums it up. Almost all of the things I hear SWG fans go on and on about are things that would bore me to death. Same deal with EQ and the people "bragging" about how some things took them months, and what an accomplishment it was on their part to "put in the time". Congratulations, you've proven that you have the ability to do mindnumbing stuff 16 hours a day. I'm so envious of you.
"Different folks, different strokes" as the saying goes. It's a shame for those who liked it that the game got shutdown, but for me SWTOR is definitely the better game. Hell, I'd play any number of them over SWG, including WoW. Which I actually did when it was still around.
Raph Koster himself stated the game was not in a good place pre-NGE, but sure, blame greedy devs envious of WoW's success if that makes you feel better. And completely ignore the fact that this was an MMO with an incredibly expense license to maintain, which means it couldn't survive on a tiny player base like some games can.
Post edited by Azaron_Nightblade on
My SWTOR referral link for those wanting to give the game a try. (Newbies get a welcome package while returning players get a few account upgrades to help with their preferred status.)
First, I've played both and would want SWG pre CU over either the NGE or SWTOR in any form. Personal preference is all and the OP is just stating his, there's no more to it than that despite his arguments.
Second, what's with all the conjecture? SWG was a failure, TOR was a success? Really? Hmm, ok if TOR was such a great success why did it have to go FREE 2 PLAY? Is it because the game was rapidly losing subs, pehaps?
Compared next to each other and in context with the markets they were competing in at those times, I don't see any evidence, and I stress the word evidence, that suggests one failed and one succeeded, apart from the glaringly obvious. TOR went F2P in under a year.
Please people dont disregard the fact that Star Wars Galaxies was a failure pre-NGE. That's why there was a NGE in the first place. There were some things about it though that could dramatically improve SWTOR as a mmo experience.
Not that SWTOR isn't a good game. It definitely is .. it's just a tad below what could be achieved if the market would allow it. That being said, we can't pretend like SWG was something it wasn't.
The NGE was created by greedy people that wanted to give another a space version of WoW to players that didn't want WoW. And, SWG was something to me and my guild full of players from the launch of SWG. SWTOR can never be improved on because Bioware decided to use the worst game engine in the MMO industry. So, you will always have the cattle chute maps that you can never fully explore. If you like it, cool. But, unless you played the original version of SWG and invested years building your world, you will never know how truly awesome it was.
I loved SWG, but that's just not true. The NGE was created by desperate devs doing anything in their power to save their game. You may be right in that it was an attempt to piggyback off of WoW's early success, but the game was dying. They didn't just screw over a successful game in some misguided attempt to bleed more money from their fans. Perhaps you don't remember the state of SWG in the months prior to NGE? Players were leaving in droves, there were scores of complaints across the board, the entire community just felt extremely negative. Obviously NGE failed spectacularly as it did not attract too many new players and alienated SWG's dedicated fanbase.
As for SWTOR, Bioware has improved the engine significantly since launch. That said, the game's performance is mediocre at best and they're probably not capable of improving it any further. Swtor has an excellent story and excellent combat for a tab target game. The pvp warzones are fun, but the lack of any relevant open world encounters is likely a huge turn off for more traditional mmo players. I guess there is Ilum, but that was/still is a laggy mess. Then the pve is too easy and loot just isn't interesting or fun to farm.
Basically my first month or two of swtor and actually the first couple weeks of the KOTFE expansion were more entertaining than anything I experienced in SWG. However SWG had me engaged for a longer period of time which would probably lead me to say it was a better game overall. I don't think it's as clear as most people on these forums seem to think though.
Totally different games, and it is likely that the fans of one will probably not be a fan of both.
This pretty much sums it up. Almost all of the things I hear SWG fans go on and on about are things that would bore me to death. Same deal with EQ and the people "bragging" about how some things took them months, and what an accomplishment it was on their part to "put in the time". Congratulations, you've proven that you have the ability to do mindnumbing stuff 16 hours a day. I'm so envious of you.
"Different folks, different strokes" as the saying goes. It's a shame for those who liked it that the game got shutdown, but for me SWTOR is definitely the better game. Hell, I'd play any number of them over SWG, including WoW. Which I actually did when it was still around.
Raph Koster himself stated the game was not in a good place pre-NGE, but sure, blame greedy devs envious of WoW's success if that makes you feel better. And completely ignore the fact that this was an MMO with an incredibly expense license to maintain, which means it couldn't survive on a tiny player base like some games can.
"Beliefs don't change facts. Facts, if you're reasonable, should change your beliefs."
"The Society that separates its scholars from its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting by fools."
Currently: Games Audio Engineer, you didn't hear what I heard, you heard what I wanted you to hear.
Why is it that a lot of you think F2P = failure? SWTOR lost a lot of people in the start but it was in no way a failure.. they changed business models very early on which was smart instead of letting what had happened get worse. If they hadn't added the f2p option (they still have subs and never got rid of sub option) maybe they would be a failure. Since F2P happened SWTOR has had far more success than failure sorry to disappoint.
If you havent played TOR since 2011/12 then you are talking about a entirely different game. The reason why TOR is still here isnt just because it ADDED f2p it actually is a great game that has made many improvements in its short life. Who knows where it will be once it hits the 10 year mark, but they are making too much money now (way more than swg ever did) so It's not shutting down anytime soon.
"Beliefs don't change facts. Facts, if you're reasonable, should change your beliefs."
"The Society that separates its scholars from its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting by fools."
Currently: Games Audio Engineer, you didn't hear what I heard, you heard what I wanted you to hear.
You relaize you sound just like a swtor fan boy nobody cares about your opinions.
Yea of course I do. Because I made a valid point that dont want to admit. sorry to burst your bubble there but yes SWTOR a themepark with a F2P option is better and more successful than your precious simulator.
"Beliefs don't change facts. Facts, if you're reasonable, should change your beliefs."
"The Society that separates its scholars from its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting by fools."
Currently: Games Audio Engineer, you didn't hear what I heard, you heard what I wanted you to hear.
You bemoan the fact that you need others to buff or heal you. That is called interdependence and it builds community. It is essential in sandbox games to have a strong community of people that rely on each other.
You never really played SWG now did you.... Or you where one of the lucky few who had all the services provided to you.
I was a ID/Ent... The amount of shit we got in the name of your "community building" was honestly appalling. Then once this so called community building pushed enough of us out.... The stance from Sony was.. Get a botted mule... Great community building there.
So take your idea interdependence and well... mount it and rotate because as lovely as an idea it is... It does not work.
Why is it that a lot of you think F2P = failure? SWTOR lost a lot of people in the start but it was in no way a failure.. they changed business models very early on which was smart instead of letting what had happened get worse. If they hadn't added the f2p option (they still have subs and never got rid of sub option) maybe they would be a failure. Since F2P happened SWTOR has had far more success than failure sorry to disappoint.
If you havent played TOR since 2011/12 then you are talking about a entirely different game. The reason why TOR is still here isnt just because it ADDED f2p it actually is a great game that has made many improvements in its short life. Who knows where it will be once it hits the 10 year mark, but they are making too much money now (way more than swg ever did) so It's not shutting down anytime soon.
They tried to swim against the current when trying to make a sub only game during a time where it was all about F2P and B2P. Which was a bit arrogant on the original devs' part. Who knows how things would've gone if they'd gone with F2P, or even B2P from the start rather than having to take months to overhaul the entire thing.
Most of the games that tried it have also made the switch since then. TSW and TERA are two that launched around the same time with sub models that come to mind immediately, but I'm sure there's even more of them. ESO and Wildstar followed not long afterwards as well.
Once again, FFXIV is one of the only MMOs in recent history that's stuck with the sub model, and I'm not even sure whether that's just because their game is doing that well, or because the devs are sticking to their guns and are just happy with the money they are getting as it is.
My SWTOR referral link for those wanting to give the game a try. (Newbies get a welcome package while returning players get a few account upgrades to help with their preferred status.)
SWTOR is a very popular and profitable mmo, SWG wasn't that popular or profitable.
A hardcore base liked SWG but that wasn't enough.
End of the day money rules and when you have a game with a brand name like star wars it has to justify the expensive of renewing that license every 5-10 years.
You bemoan the fact that you need others to buff or heal you. That is called interdependence and it builds community. It is essential in sandbox games to have a strong community of people that rely on each other.
You never really played SWG now did you.... Or you where one of the lucky few who had all the services provided to you.
I was a ID/Ent... The amount of shit we got in the name of your "community building" was honestly appalling. Then once this so called community building pushed enough of us out.... The stance from Sony was.. Get a botted mule... Great community building there.
So take your idea interdependence and well... mount it and rotate because as lovely as an idea it is... It does not work.
From where you sat, maybe it didn't.
From where I sat, it worked just fine and I am not alone in that belief.
I played SWG from closed beta until the NGE and then came back every couple months after to see what changed. Now I played in a large Guild and maybe that made the difference.
As far as being bitter with how Sony handled things, um yah they screwed everyone over not just you.
In my personal opinion it all started going downhill the minute they introduced Jedi. The ripples caused by that decision destroyed the community. People stopped playing the game to mindlessly grind professions that they didn't care about. This would be about the time Entertainers, Dancers, Musicians, Image Designers and Doctors ended up being outnumbered by Bots all over the place and yes that sucked. Everyone in our guild and our allies still went to our cantina in our city and happily interacted with our guild members who were ATK.
But there is no comparing the 2. You can talk about SWG being a failure all you want, but the game ran for 8 years, and was only shut down because of licensing crap, and the upcoming release of TOR, not because Sony wasn't making money. I played from day 1, and it was my first MMO, knew nothing of MMO's before it.
Was a completely different gaming market at the time.
There was what? UO, EQ, (both of which were getting old) DAoC, SWG, EVE and WoW? I'm sure I missed a couple, but in the grand scheme of things MMO's at that time were still the domain of "nerds and geeks" not mainstream entertainment.
SWG tried, after several years of moderate success, to be WoW. SOE couldn't understand why they were smaller with SWG, than WoW. It's the same old story that crops up in so many industries, where they can't be satisfied with what they have, and the money they're making with their product, when someone else is making more. The problem with these types of arguments is the assumption that it's the same product, thus the results should be the same. It's not the same, never was. The attempt to try and make SWG more like WoW blew up in SOE's face.
ToR is a whole other completely different product. I enjoy it for what it is.
In my own opinion, SWG was superior. It was deeper, more complex, and more closely fit the description of an MMO.
Do I feel that SWG would be an industry leader if it was released to today's market instead of when it did? Maybe, but hypotheticals are simply silly.
If you played SWG and enjoyed it like I did, consider yourself lucky.
If you play ToR and enjoy it like I do, then good for you.
The fact that players, and developers seem to think the only way to be a "success" is to be as big as WoW, is the reason why the genre has become such a mess. People can't just play a game and enjoy it, they have to compare it to others, and then define the game as a "failure" or "success" in comparison to something else.
It's dumb.
TL;DR? Just play and have fun. Stop playing the e-peen game comparison game.
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Social Justice Warrior at it's finest.
A little advice, don't be a tattletale.
Sorry, fair use.
If I can get it in a store, ios, android, windows, then we can discuss it freely. SWG is long since gone and I hate that damn game to death but, dude can say what he wants. The dudes running the SWGemu are allowed to do such as they have permission. If not, then we wouldent have this conversation now would we? So yeah, there's that.
Besides, he obviously was not promoting it as he likes SWTOR more.
"Social Justice Warrior at it's finest. " ? Obviously, you don't even know what one is or what that means. The fact that we cannot discuss private servers on these boards has nothing what so ever to do with social justice.
We can discuss SWG emu... MikeB allowed that quite a few months ago.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Comments
Never hunt in a 20 man group with two docs when the two docs are the most drunk...and the only Combat Medic you brought can be heard passed out snoring through his mic for thirty minutes already.
I'm not sure how old you are, but I remember when console games did not have DLC it all just came with the game.. you know who always had paid DLC or Xpacs? MMOS. dlc is a mmo thing for sure.
The lines are blurred but it's been happening for a while now.
"The Society that separates its scholars from its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting by fools."
Currently: Games Audio Engineer, you didn't hear what I heard, you heard what I wanted you to hear.
Ummm, no. We miss what SWG was BEFORE it tried to become SWTOR. And yeah, we wouldn't want anything to take, y'know, time, or effort. I tried SWTOR, the story was already written. Nothing to do but follow the bouncing NPC.
Response: that dosen't make a game an MMO. I play mostly sandboxes. We don't log in and do quests or roam from hub to hub and those are MMOs.
What you are describing is a Multiplayer Online experience yes, but not necessarily a Massively Multiplayer one. Your missing the 1000s of people online at a time on that server part.
Actually at first MMORPGs didn't have dlc either. You went to the store and bought an expansion just like any other game. No one wanted to download 100s of Megabytes of data over our 9600/14.4 modems. MMOs and single player computer games may have adapted them sooner than consoles, true.
I played SWTOR for about 3 months and quit. It was repeititve, boring, unimaginative. When I played there was no space(just a spaceship) my class bounty hunter's end game gear looked rediculously bad; as in the worse armor set i've seen in an mmo. Everything is so generic that there was a side by side comparison of a WoW Map and SWTOR map that looked damn near identical.
There was no end game progress except for PVP gear(Although I admit huttball was unique and fun). Tons of exploits early on that led to overpowered classes. Absolutely nothing to do in game once you got your pvp gear except re-roll. Everyone was a jedi or sith leading to the legend of powerful beings to the wayside.
There is a reason the game cost 500 million and it tanked hard and then went F2P. Its generic except for voice over's(which you skip after your character says the same dialog the 80th time) and huttball(which comes down to whomever has the better gear or OP class).
SWG is leaps and bounds ahead of TOR; not just because I prefer sandbox mmorpgs and freedom, but because of the intricate crafting system, player housing uniqueness of classes and legendaryness of jedi's.
What you call only oneclass that can heal or buff too hardcore; I call great since you need to work together with people and can't solo everything.
In almost every way SWG>TOR.
MurderHerd
"May Your Head Explode And Blood Swell From The Wound"
- Hashcow
"Different folks, different strokes" as the saying goes. It's a shame for those who liked it that the game got shutdown, but for me SWTOR is definitely the better game. Hell, I'd play any number of them over SWG, including WoW. Which I actually did when it was still around.
Raph Koster himself stated the game was not in a good place pre-NGE, but sure, blame greedy devs envious of WoW's success if that makes you feel better. And completely ignore the fact that this was an MMO with an incredibly expense license to maintain, which means it couldn't survive on a tiny player base like some games can.
My SWTOR referral link for those wanting to give the game a try. (Newbies get a welcome package while returning players get a few account upgrades to help with their preferred status.)
https://www.ashesofcreation.com/ref/Callaron/
First, I've played both and would want SWG pre CU over either the NGE or SWTOR in any form. Personal preference is all and the OP is just stating his, there's no more to it than that despite his arguments.
Second, what's with all the conjecture? SWG was a failure, TOR was a success? Really? Hmm, ok if TOR was such a great success why did it have to go FREE 2 PLAY? Is it because the game was rapidly losing subs, pehaps?
Compared next to each other and in context with the markets they were competing in at those times, I don't see any evidence, and I stress the word evidence, that suggests one failed and one succeeded, apart from the glaringly obvious. TOR went F2P in under a year.
As for SWTOR, Bioware has improved the engine significantly since launch. That said, the game's performance is mediocre at best and they're probably not capable of improving it any further. Swtor has an excellent story and excellent combat for a tab target game. The pvp warzones are fun, but the lack of any relevant open world encounters is likely a huge turn off for more traditional mmo players. I guess there is Ilum, but that was/still is a laggy mess. Then the pve is too easy and loot just isn't interesting or fun to farm.
Basically my first month or two of swtor and actually the first couple weeks of the KOTFE expansion were more entertaining than anything I experienced in SWG. However SWG had me engaged for a longer period of time which would probably lead me to say it was a better game overall. I don't think it's as clear as most people on these forums seem to think though.
"The Society that separates its scholars from its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting by fools."
Currently: Games Audio Engineer, you didn't hear what I heard, you heard what I wanted you to hear.
If you havent played TOR since 2011/12 then you are talking about a entirely different game. The reason why TOR is still here isnt just because it ADDED f2p it actually is a great game that has made many improvements in its short life. Who knows where it will be once it hits the 10 year mark, but they are making too much money now (way more than swg ever did) so It's not shutting down anytime soon.
"The Society that separates its scholars from its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting by fools."
Currently: Games Audio Engineer, you didn't hear what I heard, you heard what I wanted you to hear.
"The Society that separates its scholars from its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting by fools."
Currently: Games Audio Engineer, you didn't hear what I heard, you heard what I wanted you to hear.
I was a ID/Ent... The amount of shit we got in the name of your "community building" was honestly appalling. Then once this so called community building pushed enough of us out.... The stance from Sony was.. Get a botted mule... Great community building there.
So take your idea interdependence and well... mount it and rotate because as lovely as an idea it is... It does not work.
This have been a good conversation
Most of the games that tried it have also made the switch since then. TSW and TERA are two that launched around the same time with sub models that come to mind immediately, but I'm sure there's even more of them. ESO and Wildstar followed not long afterwards as well.
Once again, FFXIV is one of the only MMOs in recent history that's stuck with the sub model, and I'm not even sure whether that's just because their game is doing that well, or because the devs are sticking to their guns and are just happy with the money they are getting as it is.
My SWTOR referral link for those wanting to give the game a try. (Newbies get a welcome package while returning players get a few account upgrades to help with their preferred status.)
https://www.ashesofcreation.com/ref/Callaron/
A hardcore base liked SWG but that wasn't enough.
End of the day money rules and when you have a game with a brand name like star wars it has to justify the expensive of renewing that license every 5-10 years.
From where I sat, it worked just fine and I am not alone in that belief.
I played SWG from closed beta until the NGE and then came back every couple months after to see what changed.
Now I played in a large Guild and maybe that made the difference.
As far as being bitter with how Sony handled things, um yah they screwed everyone over not just you.
In my personal opinion it all started going downhill the minute they introduced Jedi.
The ripples caused by that decision destroyed the community.
People stopped playing the game to mindlessly grind professions that they didn't care about.
This would be about the time Entertainers, Dancers, Musicians, Image Designers and Doctors ended up being outnumbered by Bots all over the place and yes that sucked.
Everyone in our guild and our allies still went to our cantina in our city and happily interacted with our guild members who were ATK.
But there is no comparing the 2.
You can talk about SWG being a failure all you want, but the game ran for 8 years, and was only shut down because of licensing crap, and the upcoming release of TOR, not because Sony wasn't making money. I played from day 1, and it was my first MMO, knew nothing of MMO's before it.
Was a completely different gaming market at the time.
There was what? UO, EQ, (both of which were getting old) DAoC, SWG, EVE and WoW? I'm sure I missed a couple, but in the grand scheme of things MMO's at that time were still the domain of "nerds and geeks" not mainstream entertainment.
SWG tried, after several years of moderate success, to be WoW. SOE couldn't understand why they were smaller with SWG, than WoW. It's the same old story that crops up in so many industries, where they can't be satisfied with what they have, and the money they're making with their product, when someone else is making more. The problem with these types of arguments is the assumption that it's the same product, thus the results should be the same. It's not the same, never was. The attempt to try and make SWG more like WoW blew up in SOE's face.
ToR is a whole other completely different product. I enjoy it for what it is.
In my own opinion, SWG was superior. It was deeper, more complex, and more closely fit the description of an MMO.
Do I feel that SWG would be an industry leader if it was released to today's market instead of when it did? Maybe, but hypotheticals are simply silly.
If you played SWG and enjoyed it like I did, consider yourself lucky.
If you play ToR and enjoy it like I do, then good for you.
The fact that players, and developers seem to think the only way to be a "success" is to be as big as WoW, is the reason why the genre has become such a mess. People can't just play a game and enjoy it, they have to compare it to others, and then define the game as a "failure" or "success" in comparison to something else.
It's dumb.
TL;DR?
Just play and have fun. Stop playing the e-peen game comparison game.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson