I wouldn't say he's spot on at all, for reasons others have already pointed out.
At best, Kano is making a broad generalization, slathered with his typical cynicism.
The problem is, reality does not reflect his assertions.
There's at leat 3 high profile, modern examples which clearly, and objectively, do not fit his description - specifically FFXIV, ESO and GW2, as others have already mentioned.
Those games are not designed with the cynical mindset Kano describes. Not surprisingly, they have each maintained a loyal playerbase and didn't just die off completely after the initial wave. Rather, they continue to be populated with long-time players, with new ones joining all the time. ESO has definitely seen a resurgence in interest, in particular.
Players absolutely will stick to a game if there's enough in that game to keep them engaged and entertained beyond the initial novelty/honeymoon period.
If anything, the fact that people spend less time in the more shallow titles, but more time in those with more depth/variety in content should be sending the message to devs that players *don't* want shallow experiences like BnS.
Of course, this isn't a revelation to anyone who's been around the MMO genre since the 1st or 2nd generation. Those games didn't suffer from lack of things to do, and were designed to keep players engaged for the long haul. It's why so many stuck with those games for years, even as newer, more "modern" and - ostensibly - "better" titles have released around them.
In terms of the depth and longevity of MMORPGs, the genre has been on a decline for years now. Again, those of us who've been around long enough to make an informed comparison, and see it happening, have been saying this all along. All the while, we've been told we don't know what we're talking about, that it's just nostalgia, that the old games were never that good, and to take off the rose-tinted glasses. Yet here we are. A genre that once kept players engaged and playing for years, with a box fee and monthly sub, can barely keep them interested for more than a few weeks, even when they're free to play.
This is the second time I'm saying this in reference to how the MMO genre has degraded since it went mainstream... "I hate being right sometimes".
It's cool but I wish it was B2P not F2P, chat is totally a bust, nothing can be said unless you are standing next to someone. I HATE THAT ABOUT F2P GAMES!
The "Asian motif" the game has is not really to my liking but hey! Different strokes and all that jazz.
People on here are such haters. I got 2 max level chars and loving it. The game starts at 45, people trying it out or not even trying it hating on it, just continue. I bet people that enjoy the game could care less.
I am so tired of people using this mentality as an excuse. NO GAME should start at level 45 or whatever level cap is in a game. The game starts at level 1. Period. End of story. Maybe devs would actually start focusing on making the leveling experience better if they themselves got out of this mentality too.
If you can't capture my interest in the first 20 levels, then I know the next however many hours will be boring trying to get to cap. And the process will repeat when the next level cap comes. I and a lot of others have better things to do with our time then spend 8-20 hours going through boring content just to see what the game is supposed to "really" be like. End game is built on the foundation of the early levels. And if the mechanics from early levels are going to be boring, then end game really isn't going to change that much. I have yet to play an MMO where end game truly was as drastically a different experience from the leveling process as people seem to want to believe.
I look at games like ESO, FFXIV, GW2, and the forthcoming BDO, and I see games that offer a lot more to do than kill and quest until you level cap, then quit. It's too soon to tell how people will stay with BDO, but the former 3 have a lot of staying power, just as games before their generation did.
What exactly can you do beside Kill and Quest in ESO and FF14 to reach level cap?
Can I craft my way to level cap? can I PvP my way to level cap? (you can PvP your way to cap in BnS fwi.)
Actually in FFXIV yes, you can craft up to level cap. In FFXIV you can level every class on a single character. All you have to do is equip that class' weapon and poof, you're that class. With separate levels and everything. You have to pick a combat class when you create your character, and to see all the regions in the game you have to complete certain parts of the story which requires fighting.
But other than that, as soon as level 10 if you want to gather or craft your way to level cap, you can do it. Just equip the tool associated with that class. I don't think you can do the same with pvp though.
I look at games like ESO, FFXIV, GW2, and the forthcoming BDO, and I see games that offer a lot more to do than kill and quest until you level cap, then quit. It's too soon to tell how people will stay with BDO, but the former 3 have a lot of staying power, just as games before their generation did.
What exactly can you do beside Kill and Quest in ESO and FF14 to reach level cap?
Can I craft my way to level cap? can I PvP my way to level cap? (you can PvP your way to cap in BnS fwi.)
Actually in FFXIV yes, you can craft up to level cap. In FFXIV you can level every class on a single character. All you have to do is equip that class' weapon and poof, you're that class. With separate levels and everything. You have to pick a combat class when you create your character, and to see all the regions in the game you have to complete certain parts of the story which requires fighting.
But other than that, as soon as level 10 if you want to gather or craft your way to level cap, you can do it. Just equip the tool associated with that class. I don't think you can do the same with pvp though.
You can become a level capped carpenter or whatever, but you're not going to be able to play endgame with that character, no, unless you level a combat class.
The devs KNOW the current playerbase - they come play a new MMO for 2-6 weeks and majority jumps ship - this happens *regardless* of depth, quality of game etc....
Then people come back for a week or so to check out a new patch etc...
So the new games are designed for short term crowd, and short term play and patch rush.
Whats the point of in depth systems when 80% of playerbase won't even care to try, so the devs focus on immediate features for the locust playerbase - combat, arenas etc....
This is how it is for mainstream MMOs
that more the dev know when you release a crap game with no features and nothing to do higher level or end game people will switch games when a new games release, they mostly fail to understand they need to add reason for people to log back in, make them fun and also make a community behind these mmorpg games so peoples keep playing YOUR game. they mostly think about how we will make the players pay for the cash shop and how much money we will win and nothing else, they are mostly thinking about the subtile features for the cash shop to make peoples spend money will trying to play the f2p games model, they dont want the p2win stand but they want you to pay. dont blame the players base for it plz, we just leave because game got no soul and are seriously bad, but we keep trying the next one because we remember the good old one, nothing more and nothing less and dev have clearly failed to understand what make the old games popular and fun.
again you blame the players, the dev dont even try make a depth systems and features and i would say you are wrong, a good games, peoples would keep playing, we dont switch games because we switch games, we switch game because game are generaly bad curently.
@GeezerGamer ; I didn't see a queue last night and the past few nights its been 10 minutes max for waiting. Now is a good time to jump in and check it out. I like it for the different style action/combo combat and simple upgrade system.
@Thourne sorry man its just not for everyone. Good luck finding what entertains you.
@Daar ; BDO might have some similiarities but I didn't notice them. The action combat of BDO is quasi-action. You attack and your character stops moving and goes through this animation. B&S when you attack your character doesn't stop moving. Honestly I think they are completely different mmorpgs.
Thanks, I'll need it. I am more of a virtual world type MMORPGer so atm kinda screwed. but thanks.
The thing about an MMORPG is that what it needs to survive is players. Sure, stating the obvious, but that means that a game that is shallow, and only really does one thing, no matter how well it does it, can't hope to do well because it lacks broad appeal. If your friends don't want to play it, you girlfriend can't find anything she likes to do, it means you are likely not to play as much even if you love it.
The thing about an MMORPG is that what it needs to survive is players. Sure, stating the obvious, but that means that a game that is shallow, and only really does one thing, no matter how well it does it, can't hope to do well because it lacks broad appeal. If your friends don't want to play it, you girlfriend can't find anything she likes to do, it means you are likely not to play as much even if you love it.
It's one of the most popular MMORPG's in Korea and it's been around for four years. I think it's doing fine despite being shallow.
It's one of the most popular MMORPG's in Korea and it's been around for four years. I think it's doing fine despite being shallow.
I just meant to make a general comment on why it's not good to be too shallow in an MMORPG. So it might be doing fine now, but if it had a broader appeal it might be doing great
Right now if someone wants to play a good MMORPG that is a themepark with broad appeal they are probably stuck with Final Fantasy XIV. If they want something a bit more tailored there are other smaller options in the F2P sector, but we basically got Guild Wars 2 for action oriented dodging, Final Fantasy XIV for tab target, and a great big polluted wasteland for MMOFPS, MMORTS, survival, etc.
Also, lets not kid ourselves too much here: In the United States if a game isn't a retail B2P game or a subscription game with a boxed copy it might as well be the video game equivalent of direct to video. The quality is going to be mediocre to absolute tripe, and the only way it can survive is by bottom feeding off of people with poor impulse control over their spending.
In the defense of Blade and Soul, the game has proven to at least be on the level of Dynasty Warriors, where it's sort of a B grade retail game that can be played for free. Aka, it's at the top of the expected Direct to Video rating system. The issue it has is that it reached the US far too late to be relevant anymore.
Edit: Basically, Blade and Soul is in the boat that WoW would be in if it released in it's original state today with better graphics. It would just flop.
Comments
I wouldn't say he's spot on at all, for reasons others have already pointed out.
At best, Kano is making a broad generalization, slathered with his typical cynicism.
The problem is, reality does not reflect his assertions.
There's at leat 3 high profile, modern examples which clearly, and objectively, do not fit his description - specifically FFXIV, ESO and GW2, as others have already mentioned.
Those games are not designed with the cynical mindset Kano describes. Not surprisingly, they have each maintained a loyal playerbase and didn't just die off completely after the initial wave. Rather, they continue to be populated with long-time players, with new ones joining all the time. ESO has definitely seen a resurgence in interest, in particular.
Players absolutely will stick to a game if there's enough in that game to keep them engaged and entertained beyond the initial novelty/honeymoon period.
If anything, the fact that people spend less time in the more shallow titles, but more time in those with more depth/variety in content should be sending the message to devs that players *don't* want shallow experiences like BnS.
Of course, this isn't a revelation to anyone who's been around the MMO genre since the 1st or 2nd generation. Those games didn't suffer from lack of things to do, and were designed to keep players engaged for the long haul. It's why so many stuck with those games for years, even as newer, more "modern" and - ostensibly - "better" titles have released around them.
In terms of the depth and longevity of MMORPGs, the genre has been on a decline for years now. Again, those of us who've been around long enough to make an informed comparison, and see it happening, have been saying this all along. All the while, we've been told we don't know what we're talking about, that it's just nostalgia, that the old games were never that good, and to take off the rose-tinted glasses. Yet here we are. A genre that once kept players engaged and playing for years, with a box fee and monthly sub, can barely keep them interested for more than a few weeks, even when they're free to play.
This is the second time I'm saying this in reference to how the MMO genre has degraded since it went mainstream... "I hate being right sometimes".
The "Asian motif" the game has is not really to my liking but hey! Different strokes and all that jazz.
I am so tired of people using this mentality as an excuse. NO GAME should start at level 45 or whatever level cap is in a game. The game starts at level 1. Period. End of story. Maybe devs would actually start focusing on making the leveling experience better if they themselves got out of this mentality too.
If you can't capture my interest in the first 20 levels, then I know the next however many hours will be boring trying to get to cap. And the process will repeat when the next level cap comes. I and a lot of others have better things to do with our time then spend 8-20 hours going through boring content just to see what the game is supposed to "really" be like. End game is built on the foundation of the early levels. And if the mechanics from early levels are going to be boring, then end game really isn't going to change that much. I have yet to play an MMO where end game truly was as drastically a different experience from the leveling process as people seem to want to believe.
Actually in FFXIV yes, you can craft up to level cap. In FFXIV you can level every class on a single character. All you have to do is equip that class' weapon and poof, you're that class. With separate levels and everything. You have to pick a combat class when you create your character, and to see all the regions in the game you have to complete certain parts of the story which requires fighting.
But other than that, as soon as level 10 if you want to gather or craft your way to level cap, you can do it. Just equip the tool associated with that class. I don't think you can do the same with pvp though.
that more the dev know when you release a crap game with no features and nothing to do higher level or end game people will switch games when a new games release, they mostly fail to understand they need to add reason for people to log back in, make them fun and also make a community behind these mmorpg games so peoples keep playing YOUR game. they mostly think about how we will make the players pay for the cash shop and how much money we will win and nothing else, they are mostly thinking about the subtile features for the cash shop to make peoples spend money will trying to play the f2p games model, they dont want the p2win stand but they want you to pay. dont blame the players base for it plz, we just leave because game got no soul and are seriously bad, but we keep trying the next one because we remember the good old one, nothing more and nothing less and dev have clearly failed to understand what make the old games popular and fun.
again you blame the players, the dev dont even try make a depth systems and features and i would say you are wrong, a good games, peoples would keep playing, we dont switch games because we switch games, we switch game because game are generaly bad curently.
https://www.revivalgame.com/features/living_world
Any mmo worth its salt should be like a good prostitute when it comes to its game world- One hell of a faker, and a damn good shaker!
So it might be doing fine now, but if it had a broader appeal it might be doing great
Also, lets not kid ourselves too much here: In the United States if a game isn't a retail B2P game or a subscription game with a boxed copy it might as well be the video game equivalent of direct to video. The quality is going to be mediocre to absolute tripe, and the only way it can survive is by bottom feeding off of people with poor impulse control over their spending.
In the defense of Blade and Soul, the game has proven to at least be on the level of Dynasty Warriors, where it's sort of a B grade retail game that can be played for free. Aka, it's at the top of the expected Direct to Video rating system. The issue it has is that it reached the US far too late to be relevant anymore.
Edit: Basically, Blade and Soul is in the boat that WoW would be in if it released in it's original state today with better graphics. It would just flop.