Black Desert With a Little Scam Work

SirBalin

So a few months ago Black Desert stated that they were launching multiple servers for NA, which was great for the open world pvp aspect of the game.  Posts were put together praising DAUM saying we are so glad you aren't doing a megaserver as we can open world pvp and gvg.  Then they opened up founders packages for $100 bucks...guess what...after buying them they came back and said oh sorry we haven't decided on server types yet, we'll inform you soon.  After a few weeks someone tried to refund their pack and DAUM said you can't refund after 14 days.  So, talk about a bait and switch.  Still, not the end of the world, but a few people..well a lot of people start asking and posting about the concerns and saying if you do switch from what you originally said you will allow refunds correct?  This was your mistake and people should not be held to a $100 founders package for your mistake, give us answers on this asap.  The responses from the CM's were AMAZING...banned stating the topic can't bring anything good, restarted the topic, banned locked, gg.  
This is very sad....

Flyinpenguin

Yea I do noticed how they did they bait and switch on everyone and refuse to give us a response, I do remember them saying they would be going multiple servers at the beginning. Now they just lock everyones thread that is asking for a response. 

stayontarget

posted by Belsazar   26 Nov 2015

http://forum.blackdesertonline.com/index.php?/topic/1696-pm-diary-tamer-release-and-more/

PM_Belsazar   


I did mention in my interview before that we are not going with a Mega Server, but it is still something that we might consider, due to the benefits that would come with it. Before you start worrying, I’d like to provide some more details about what those benefits are. Also please be aware that Pearl Abyss and Daum Games are both very determined to offer the best gaming experience. So our ultimate goal is to secure a stable gameplay.
A Mega Server would mean that we would have 2 Mega Servers. One in NA and one in the EU. Each offering multiple channels, from which you can choose. You would be able to switch with your character between each channel, thus allowing you to play with your friends that are on the same Mega Server (EU or NA).
The ‘regular setup’ would be if there were 2 “World Servers” (EU and NA). Although instead of multiple channels, you would find multiple servers named Calpheon, Balenos, Serendia and so forth, from which, you would have to choose your starting point. The downside is, you won’t be able to switch servers (e.g. Calpehon to Balenos) at any time; unless a merge happens due to a deserting server. 
Again, our final decision will be based on what we believe will be the best experience for players, both on technical terms and for pure enjoyment.

carotid

stayontarget said:

Again, our final decision will be based on what we believe will be the best experience for players, both on technical terms and for pure enjoyment.

This, right there, is why games today suck ass. Developers think they know what is best for people.

Flyinpenguin

carotid said:

stayontarget said:

Again, our final decision will be based on what we believe will be the best experience for players, both on technical terms and for pure enjoyment.

This, right there, is why games today suck ass. Developers think they know what is best for people.

Yea and the fact they they say one thing then change there mind after 100's of people have already purchased there game..

Kaught

stayontarget said:

posted by Belsazar   26 Nov 2015

http://forum.blackdesertonline.com/index.php?/topic/1696-pm-diary-tamer-release-and-more/

PM_Belsazar   


I did mention in my interview before that we are not going with a Mega Server, but it is still something that we might consider, due to the benefits that would come with it. Before you start worrying, I’d like to provide some more details about what those benefits are. Also please be aware that Pearl Abyss and Daum Games are both very determined to offer the best gaming experience. So our ultimate goal is to secure a stable gameplay.
A Mega Server would mean that we would have 2 Mega Servers. One in NA and one in the EU. Each offering multiple channels, from which you can choose. You would be able to switch with your character between each channel, thus allowing you to play with your friends that are on the same Mega Server (EU or NA).
The ‘regular setup’ would be if there were 2 “World Servers” (EU and NA). Although instead of multiple channels, you would find multiple servers named Calpheon, Balenos, Serendia and so forth, from which, you would have to choose your starting point. The downside is, you won’t be able to switch servers (e.g. Calpehon to Balenos) at any time; unless a merge happens due to a deserting server. 
Again, our final decision will be based on what we believe will be the best experience for players, both on technical terms and for pure enjoyment.

How about we talk about the negatives for Megaservers then.

• Hard to defend nodes when the entire server is after you
• Can't find people in GvG's due to too many servers
• Can't find anyone because there are too many servers
• Hard to find people because the channel timers are a pain
• Multiple servers = multiple sets of nodes which means YAY everyone gets a castle for their princesses

The friend thing isn't a positive because if they were your friend then you could just tell them what server to roll on.

I do believe that the servers should have multiple channels though because Black Desert is not large enough to sustain a population of that magnitude without multiple servers.

Sanisar

Impossible, I have very clearly learned from reading post after post on this game on these very forums that everything the developers have told the community is etched in stone.  Specifically it will never be P2W, but it's clearly impossible that the devs would ever bait and switch or deceive the community in any way, just like Trion was going to have autonomous control over AA and was going to not be P2W and was going to start with patch 1.0 and have independent progression from Korea, it's own patches, etc.  We all know how that panned out.

jmcdermottuk

I'm tempted to say this is what happens when you buy founders packs, oh wait, I just did.

If nobody bought founders packs they wouldn't feel cheated every time the slightest thing was changed. Maybe devs would finish decent games too, if they weren't raking in so much cash before they're even released.

Phry

jmcdermottuk said:

I'm tempted to say this is what happens when you buy founders packs, oh wait, I just did.

If nobody bought founders packs they wouldn't feel cheated every time the slightest thing was changed. Maybe devs would finish decent games too, if they weren't raking in so much cash before they're even released.

Simple guildlines for better games, don't preorder, don't buy founders, and don't support games that try the old day 1 dlc shenanigans.
Sadly, people still do those things, regardless of the outcome and likely complain about it months later.

nationalcity

Exactly, you think the ques for blade and soul are bad wait till you try logging into one megaserver on BDO........

GeezerGamer

carotid said:

stayontarget said:

Again, our final decision will be based on what we believe will be the best experience for players, both on technical terms and for pure enjoyment.

This, right there, is why games today suck ass. Developers think they know what is best for people.

Maybe they actually do know what's best. But there are other factors in play here. I've done a little dabbling in the modding scene for Skyrim.  I got a pretty good look at what was under the hood. For example, in the Dawnguard DLC, I could see lines in the quests where Tolan (The Vigilant at Fort DG ) Was actually supposed to meet you at Dimhollow Crypt (Alive) and you were supposed to explore the cave with him. There are Lines recorded for Serana where after she's been awakened she references being awoken by 2 people who don't know what they are doing. There  are lines where she tells you to throw the other lever. These are things that were never in the game.

This means that what the developers wanted to develop was axed. Probably by suits imposing deadlines.

It's not always up to the developers.

Mothanos

Main reason i never preorder anything these days with a few exceptions that a promise made and no shady stuff and rumors are being discovered.

I to am very disapointed they went from single server to a "we might have a megaserver" 

The main reason many people are against this is that ganking cost you karma, but to pvp you need to pay a 150k silver upkeep cost.

If you war dec this guild and you search for them and they dont want to fight they just keep changing to any of the 30 channels making your war dec not only worthless but also a waiste of time.

it also takes away the sense of community, guilds forced to work together to take on a stronger guild, to forge alliance's or to backstab guilds in an alliance, so in short alot of meta gaming will be gone with a mega server.




PvP is the only thing worth this mmo has, without it this will be a single player mob grind with almost zero pvp, pvp guilds will leave this mmo in droves if there isnt enough pvp and the loss of that income has to be made back one way or another.

This will force cashshop changes and we all know what that will contain....P2W....
When this happen many other guilds might leave and yeah its simple to see how it ends.

I hope Daum is not making the same mistake they did with the Korean / Russian clients and even tough Russia still has some decent world pvp but this is only in the top pvp guilds like JustPlay / Prets etc etc.

BDO can be a fantastic sandbox mmo with lots of pvp contend.
But this lies all in the hands of Daum and how their vision for our client is.

To high karma loss = less pvp
Going with Megaserver = less to no pvp
Lets hope we get to know more in the next 3 weeks before the next Closed Beta starts.

Wizardry

He might correct in his assumptions on Mega servers being better but he should not have said otherwise until they were certain.
What it ends up as is nothing but a blatant lie and misrepresentation of their product.Not only you get your money back,you can file a complaint as they are actually breaking the law.

aslan132

Phry said:

jmcdermottuk said:

I'm tempted to say this is what happens when you buy founders packs, oh wait, I just did.

If nobody bought founders packs they wouldn't feel cheated every time the slightest thing was changed. Maybe devs would finish decent games too, if they weren't raking in so much cash before they're even released.

Simple guildlines for better games, don't preorder, don't buy founders, and don't support games that try the old day 1 dlc shenanigans.
Sadly, people still do those things, regardless of the outcome and likely complain about it months later.

This is common sense for alot of us, sadly it isnt for everyone. If you give someone money before you know all the details, its your fault, not theirs, when you are unhappy with the finished product. You dont really have a right to complain when its your own impatience that makes you spend money on something you may not actually want in the future. 


Its pretty simple, if you actually care what the finished product is, then you should wait for the product to be finished. If you care about the details of what a game may or may not be, then you shouldnt be spending money on it until you have those details. Its really not rocket science people.

Jacobin

The lies and 'system changes' will keep happening, this is only the beginning.

NA/EU is just a giant payday for Daum and all this talk about 'evaluating what players want' is just marketing speak for how much can they can get away with before they are labelled Trion 2.0.

Pepeq

The only legally binding contract that they must abide by is stated here:
https://www.blackdesertonline.com/legal/terms-of-use

Anything else is not covered by the contract nor legally binding.

Talonsin

Torval said:

Sometimes a developer also gets into a situation where what they want to do doesn't work in the bigger picture. That happens with most all software not just games. You flesh out a template or framework for what you want to do, you find out that there are unintended aspects that pop up due to that, and you make changes. There are lots of reasons, good and bad, why things don't end up how they started.

What you said there works great for "We could not get jiggly boobs into the game right away due to technical issues" but when you say "we are not going with a Mega Server" then take orders followed by a complete reversal of that, it is not the same. 

To some people it is like saying "We will have full loot pvp" then after taking their money for 14 days, you say we are not allowing refunds and Oh, btw "Opps, we decided not to have full loot pvp but thanks for the money suckers!"

Andistotle

cry cry cry. Gamers nowadays cry about everything. must be a nightmare to be a developer in this day and age.

carotid

Torval said:

Phry said:

jmcdermottuk said:

I'm tempted to say this is what happens when you buy founders packs, oh wait, I just did.

If nobody bought founders packs they wouldn't feel cheated every time the slightest thing was changed. Maybe devs would finish decent games too, if they weren't raking in so much cash before they're even released.

Simple guildlines for better games, don't preorder, don't buy founders, and don't support games that try the old day 1 dlc shenanigans.
Sadly, people still do those things, regardless of the outcome and likely complain about it months later.

I sometimes pre-order and buy day 1 DLC, but then again I don't go bitching and whining if a change happens that doesn't go my way. People, take some responsibility for your own decisions ffs.

Why not? You should! Stop settling for crap! You're one of the the reason the industry IS crap today! WAKE UP, MAN!!

carotid

Torval said:

GeezerGamer said:

carotid said:

stayontarget said:

Again, our final decision will be based on what we believe will be the best experience for players, both on technical terms and for pure enjoyment.

This, right there, is why games today suck ass. Developers think they know what is best for people.

Maybe they actually do know what's best. But there are other factors in play here. I've done a little dabbling in the modding scene for Skyrim.  I got a pretty good look at what was under the hood. For example, in the Dawnguard DLC, I could see lines in the quests where Tolan (The Vigilant at Fort DG ) Was actually supposed to meet you at Dimhollow Crypt (Alive) and you were supposed to explore the cave with him. There are Lines recorded for Serana where after she's been awakened she references being awoken by 2 people who don't know what they are doing. There  are lines where she tells you to throw the other lever. These are things that were never in the game.

This means that what the developers wanted to develop was axed. Probably by suits imposing deadlines.

It's not always up to the developers.

Sometimes a developer also gets into a situation where what they want to do doesn't work in the bigger picture. That happens with most all software not just games. You flesh out a template or framework for what you want to do, you find out that there are unintended aspects that pop up due to that, and you make changes. There are lots of reasons, good and bad, why things don't end up how they started.

What I think is funny is that @carotid says that developers don't know best and implies that gamers do as if there is a unified voice in gaming. Seriously, get 10 gamers in a room and 11 of them will have different opinions on how it should work out and each one of them thinks they know best.

No shit Sherlock. They will take the opinions of the 11 gamers and apply it to the development of the game. HELLO!!! That's where ideas come from, people with opinions. Not every opinion is shit, you know.

Soki123

jmcdermottuk said:

I'm tempted to say this is what happens when you buy founders packs, oh wait, I just did.

If nobody bought founders packs they wouldn't feel cheated every time the slightest thing was changed. Maybe devs would finish decent games too, if they weren't raking in so much cash before they're even released.

Bingo!!!

SirBalin

stayontarget said:

posted by Belsazar   26 Nov 2015

http://forum.blackdesertonline.com/index.php?/topic/1696-pm-diary-tamer-release-and-more/

PM_Belsazar   


I did mention in my interview before that we are not going with a Mega Server, but it is still something that we might consider, due to the benefits that would come with it. Before you start worrying, I’d like to provide some more details about what those benefits are. Also please be aware that Pearl Abyss and Daum Games are both very determined to offer the best gaming experience. So our ultimate goal is to secure a stable gameplay.
A Mega Server would mean that we would have 2 Mega Servers. One in NA and one in the EU. Each offering multiple channels, from which you can choose. You would be able to switch with your character between each channel, thus allowing you to play with your friends that are on the same Mega Server (EU or NA).
The ‘regular setup’ would be if there were 2 “World Servers” (EU and NA). Although instead of multiple channels, you would find multiple servers named Calpheon, Balenos, Serendia and so forth, from which, you would have to choose your starting point. The downside is, you won’t be able to switch servers (e.g. Calpehon to Balenos) at any time; unless a merge happens due to a deserting server. 
Again, our final decision will be based on what we believe will be the best experience for players, both on technical terms and for pure enjoyment.

So Belsazar, I'm confused, why ban people that simply ask things like, "if you do go with megaservers after telling us you were going multiple servers (as you just stated yourself) will you allow us to refund our money?"  It was simple, I posted it two times and I was banned...it's really sad and it's a show stopper to think you guys would run from this and ban anyone that would ask this simple question...will you allow refunds being that your ignorance caused players to preorder?  

Seems like we and especially myself have praised some CM's like Jouska to the point that he has a real big head now.  He's banning and locking everything, I'd suggest maybe since you are the big cheese, you step in and say, this is probably not something we should ban people for.  I even tried to make my post a little comical and when it was banned, I messaged Jouska to please stop the people taht are derailing the thread instead of locking it and I tried again...his response,...7 day ban.  Great job...so, you hide from your own mistakes and you don't respond to whether or not we can refund if you don't continue with what you originally stated.  We had one person in guild already ask for a refund and he was told no refund past 14 days...that's pathetic, you screwed up...you need to step up and get your cm's shit in line.  

On a final note, I'm almost positive you have not played the game, or you would understand why no one wants a megaserver with multiple channels.  The only point you can make is people playing with friends...that's shit.  You fail to mention the number one feature in the game, sieges/node wars become a massive zerg fill rvr and it's just stupid like in KR...but you haven't played so you don't get that.  You fail to mention that you can't GVG becasue you have tons of channel s and can't find each other...ah, but you don't play so you don't get that.  Bunch of crap...

SirBalin

Rhoklaw said:

Didn't Age of Conan use a Megaserver? I didn't hear anyone complain about lack of PvP in that game. Doesn't GW2 use a Megaserver now? Still no lack of PvP, sorry, WvW, in that game. So can someone explain exactly how there is less PvP on a megaserver then there would be available on 5 separate servers?

You are comparing RVR games to GVG games...RVR, you look for factions to kill...GVG you look for the guild you are fighting agains to kill.  That said...Conan died so fast...can't believe you even went there.  (point of this was not to discuss which option was better, it was a bait and switch and the lead PM just admitted he made that mistake, then players spent money and they won't give refunds, instead they ban if you ask...that's pretty bad)

SirBalin

Kaught said:

stayontarget said:

posted by Belsazar   26 Nov 2015

http://forum.blackdesertonline.com/index.php?/topic/1696-pm-diary-tamer-release-and-more/

PM_Belsazar   


I did mention in my interview before that we are not going with a Mega Server, but it is still something that we might consider, due to the benefits that would come with it. Before you start worrying, I’d like to provide some more details about what those benefits are. Also please be aware that Pearl Abyss and Daum Games are both very determined to offer the best gaming experience. So our ultimate goal is to secure a stable gameplay.
A Mega Server would mean that we would have 2 Mega Servers. One in NA and one in the EU. Each offering multiple channels, from which you can choose. You would be able to switch with your character between each channel, thus allowing you to play with your friends that are on the same Mega Server (EU or NA).
The ‘regular setup’ would be if there were 2 “World Servers” (EU and NA). Although instead of multiple channels, you would find multiple servers named Calpheon, Balenos, Serendia and so forth, from which, you would have to choose your starting point. The downside is, you won’t be able to switch servers (e.g. Calpehon to Balenos) at any time; unless a merge happens due to a deserting server. 
Again, our final decision will be based on what we believe will be the best experience for players, both on technical terms and for pure enjoyment.

How about we talk about the negatives for Megaservers then.

• Hard to defend nodes when the entire server is after you
• Can't find people in GvG's due to too many servers
• Can't find anyone because there are too many servers
• Hard to find people because the channel timers are a pain
• Multiple servers = multiple sets of nodes which means YAY everyone gets a castle for their princesses

The friend thing isn't a positive because if they were your friend then you could just tell them what server to roll on.

I do believe that the servers should have multiple channels though because Black Desert is not large enough to sustain a population of that magnitude without multiple servers.

Good call Kaught, funny how he tries to sell the positives...yet in the other countries where they implimented megaservers, the game is dying and the players are begging for them to change it.  

SirBalin

aslan132 said:

Phry said:

jmcdermottuk said:

I'm tempted to say this is what happens when you buy founders packs, oh wait, I just did.

If nobody bought founders packs they wouldn't feel cheated every time the slightest thing was changed. Maybe devs would finish decent games too, if they weren't raking in so much cash before they're even released.

Simple guildlines for better games, don't preorder, don't buy founders, and don't support games that try the old day 1 dlc shenanigans.
Sadly, people still do those things, regardless of the outcome and likely complain about it months later.

This is common sense for alot of us, sadly it isnt for everyone. If you give someone money before you know all the details, its your fault, not theirs, when you are unhappy with the finished product. You dont really have a right to complain when its your own impatience that makes you spend money on something you may not actually want in the future. 


Its pretty simple, if you actually care what the finished product is, then you should wait for the product to be finished. If you care about the details of what a game may or may not be, then you shouldnt be spending money on it until you have those details. Its really not rocket science people.

Dude...you don't get it...they GAVE US the details...then they changed it and said oh my mistake.

Punk999

Want a refund? Just call your bank.

Also the 14 day thing was right there in the FAQ before buying.