They either have a still have a lot of money, yet are relentlessly selling ship jpegs, or they've gone through a large chunk of their money already, and need the steady 3 mil a month to keep going.
Both those possibilities raise questions....
If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.
Again, I have no problem with the game not being finished yet.....just stop asking me for more money when you are bringing in record millions.
Viper ... you should really go into your SC account settings and simple switch off the e-mail notification option if you do not like the mails. And i am not sure what mails from CIG YOU get, because I get ONE mail per week in digest format. And that does NOT contain any ship ads, but a list of the articles that have been published on the official SC homepage this week.
Celebrating the 3rd anniversary of the kickstarter is as lame as your wife or GF wanting you to take them out or buy them something for the anniversary of the first time you went on a date.
It's an image thing, right now they seem interested mostly in coming up with more ways to raise money. Will there ever be a point where they say "thank you folks, we have the money to deliver the game we've envisioned., and they'll quit holding their hand ?
What's next, a holiday telethon or "run for the game" event?
Just because they can continue to take in the money (or fleece the suckers, depending on your viewpoint) doesn't mean they should, especially if they really don't need it.
It's a question of ethics.
lol someone has been or isn't married anymore. :chuffed: Or maybe you just believe in keeping the romance and affection in your relationship in check and to a reasonable minimum. Wouldn't want to waste any energy on that sort of thing.
You could make that comment about most mmos, EVE included. MMOs charge an asinine amount of money per year in access/rental or RMT fees for what they deliver. They charge what they can, CCP included, because that is what the market will bear. It's what they can get away with. They would charge a ton more if they thought they could.
Please don't setup the false dichotomy that just because you can log into the CCP servers that they don't overcharge and put as little effort as they can get away with into harvesting that revenue and that somehow makes it more moral than a project crowdfunding their development. Every project and business can always use more money and resources. The moral issue is that they are trying to deliver on that
But then you have to go back and take CR's words to heart. "We can make the game for 20m" Well he certainly has or had that much, so where is the game? But now because CR keeps changing stuff and not staying on track should worry everyone. Something does seem fishy here. If he really hasn't build the engine he needs from the CryEngine by now this game could be in very serious trouble financially.
But then you have to go back and take CR's words to heart. "We can make the game for 20m"
He said that about the game he proposed at the beginning of Kickstarter (500 k€ from Kickstarter as a proof for community interest to get 20+ M$ish from investors). Much has changed since then. The project is now much larger (about 100+ stretch goals larger). The new larger project costs more than 20 M$. Which has been said time and time again.
Anniversary of what? No game? What is this, a legacy thing that can be carried on if this project goes bust? "Come celebrate SC's 12th no-release anniversary! Pictures of ships will be sold as nostalgia to bring back those "early days" feel."
Anniversary of what? No game? What is this, a legacy thing that can be carried on if this project goes bust? "Come celebrate SC's 12th no-release anniversary! Pictures of ships will be sold as nostalgia to bring back those "early days" feel."
So negative.
They are having a "sale" - it is that time of year. Just about every other company under the sun is having a "sale" as well. And coming as it does it dovetails with the announcement of the expanded testing.
If the project ran out of money and released unfinished people would you be saying: "they didn't do enough to promote the game"?
Gaming as a whole needs ambition. It needs big games: ESO, Destiny, Witcher, Dark Souls, SW BF whatever otherwise we will be lamenting why the only games being released are ones for phones.
Again, I have no problem with the game not being finished yet.....just stop asking me for more money when you are bringing in record millions.
Viper ... you should really go into your SC account settings and simple switch off the e-mail notification option if you do not like the mails. And i am not sure what mails from CIG YOU get, because I get ONE mail per week in digest format. And that does NOT contain any ship ads, but a list of the articles that have been published on the official SC homepage this week.
Celebrating the 3rd anniversary of the kickstarter is as lame as your wife or GF wanting you to take them out or buy them something for the anniversary of the first time you went on a date.
It's an image thing, right now they seem interested mostly in coming up with more ways to raise money. Will there ever be a point where they say "thank you folks, we have the money to deliver the game we've envisioned., and they'll quit holding their hand ?
What's next, a holiday telethon or "run for the game" event?
Just because they can continue to take in the money (or fleece the suckers, depending on your viewpoint) doesn't mean they should, especially if they really don't need it.
It's a question of ethics.
lol someone has been or isn't married anymore. :chuffed: Or maybe you just believe in keeping the romance and affection in your relationship in check and to a reasonable minimum. Wouldn't want to waste any energy on that sort of thing.
You could make that comment about most mmos, EVE included. MMOs charge an asinine amount of money per year in access/rental or RMT fees for what they deliver. They charge what they can, CCP included, because that is what the market will bear. It's what they can get away with. They would charge a ton more if they thought they could.
Please don't setup the false dichotomy that just because you can log into the CCP servers that they don't overcharge and put as little effort as they can get away with into harvesting that revenue and that somehow makes it more moral than a project crowdfunding their development. Every project and business can always use more money and resources. The moral issue is that they are trying to deliver on that
But then you have to go back and take CR's words to heart. "We can make the game for 20m" Well he certainly has or had that much, so where is the game? But now because CR keeps changing stuff and not staying on track should worry everyone. Something does seem fishy here. If he really hasn't build the engine he needs from the CryEngine by now this game could be in very serious trouble financially.
Find the Eve quote very amusing, CCP charge for a service they are providing, something that is not the case in the current state of Star Citizen, again, Eve is also a game that exists as a thing, that it requires a subscription to play it, is a different kind of argument, because you are paying for something that actually exists, whereas in the case of Star Citizen, your buying something that doesn't actually exist even as a service, but instead buying into something that may exist at some indeterminate time in the future, or not, until the game is released in a complete state, rather than fragments, its probably not a good idea to compare it to games that do, at least not without looking very silly.
Anniversary of what? No game? What is this, a legacy thing that can be carried on if this project goes bust? "Come celebrate SC's 12th no-release anniversary! Pictures of ships will be sold as nostalgia to bring back those "early days" feel."
So negative.
They are having a "sale" - it is that time of year. Just about every other company under the sun is having a "sale" as well. And coming as it does it dovetails with the announcement of the expanded testing.
If the project ran out of money and released unfinished people would you be saying: "they didn't do enough to promote the game"?
Gaming as a whole needs ambition. It needs big games: ESO, Destiny, Witcher, Dark Souls, SW BF whatever otherwise we will be lamenting why the only games being released are ones for phones.
If the project ran out of money, I'd be saying 'Chris Roberts strikes again!'
Ambition is great, if it's founded on something real. My biggest beef is with the 'Roberts is a Genious!' crew, who mostly listen to him talk and take it as gospel. His reputation is really overinflated. His egotism sounds and sells well, but his game creation competence suffers from it. The less he has to do with the actual Star Citizen game management and design, the better the project will turn out.
If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.
But then you have to go back and take CR's words to heart. "We can make the game for 20m"
He said that about the game he proposed at the beginning of Kickstarter (500 k€ from Kickstarter as a proof for community interest to get 20+ M$ish from investors). Much has changed since then. The project is now much larger (about 100+ stretch goals larger). The new larger project costs more than 20 M$. Which has been said time and time again.
Have fun
How can you keep on defending that PoS game?? Elite Dangerous is a much better product AND is a real game .. I have noticed your methods and I conclude that you are one of three things .. A heavy backer, an employee or a brain dead fanboi ..
Anniversary of what? No game? What is this, a legacy thing that can be carried on if this project goes bust? "Come celebrate SC's 12th no-release anniversary! Pictures of ships will be sold as nostalgia to bring back those "early days" feel."
So negative.
They are having a "sale" - it is that time of year. Just about every other company under the sun is having a "sale" as well. And coming as it does it dovetails with the announcement of the expanded testing.
If the project ran out of money and released unfinished people would you be saying: "they didn't do enough to promote the game"?
Gaming as a whole needs ambition. It needs big games: ESO, Destiny, Witcher, Dark Souls, SW BF whatever otherwise we will be lamenting why the only games being released are ones for phones.
What's negative? Selling products that don't exist based on a theme that doesn't exist isn't negative? This shit right here is "Snake Oil Salesmanship" And I am calling it out. It's wrong. It's what's really negative. And the more they do it, the more people are going to start asking...."Did you really run out of money?" At this point I am beginning to believe there are one of 2 very strong possibilities in the works here. (Or both)
1. They ran / running out of money. 2. Chris Roberts is out of EFFING control with his stretch goals (See new thread about skills to repair vessels) and will bury this project into the ground through constantly expanding this project to impossible levels. How can you ever score, when the goal posts are moving faster than you can run?
Ambition is one thing, It must be tempered with reality and business sense or it just becomes a dream turned nightmare. If this game doesn't release, it's going to have the opposite effect as what you are hoping for in that regard.
2. Chris Roberts is out of EFFING control with his stretch goals (See new thread about skills to repair vessels) ..**snip**
CIG is doing what they promised in earlier stretch Goals :
21 M$ stretch goal: "...Salvage Mechanic: Salvage isn’t an aside: it’s a career, with its own
mechanic, story tie-ins and universe-shaping endgames. Search the galaxy
for a host of valuable and interesting secrets using both the flight
and FPS components. ...:
59 M$ stretch goal: "....The Crucible is also part of a larger planned repair system...."
And the last stretch goal was introduced over a year ago, no new stretch goals have been added since then.
You say "....constantly expanding this project to impossible levels....".
I see a team working through the promised stretch goals in a methodical way.
Again, I have no problem with the game not being finished yet.....just stop asking me for more money when you are bringing in record millions.
Viper ... you should really go into your SC account settings and simple switch off the e-mail notification option if you do not like the mails. And i am not sure what mails from CIG YOU get, because I get ONE mail per week in digest format. And that does NOT contain any ship ads, but a list of the articles that have been published on the official SC homepage this week.
Celebrating the 3rd anniversary of the kickstarter is as lame as your wife or GF wanting you to take them out or buy them something for the anniversary of the first time you went on a date.
It's an image thing, right now they seem interested mostly in coming up with more ways to raise money. Will there ever be a point where they say "thank you folks, we have the money to deliver the game we've envisioned., and they'll quit holding their hand ?
What's next, a holiday telethon or "run for the game" event?
Just because they can continue to take in the money (or fleece the suckers, depending on your viewpoint) doesn't mean they should, especially if they really don't need it.
It's a question of ethics.
lol someone has been or isn't married anymore. :chuffed: Or maybe you just believe in keeping the romance and affection in your relationship in check and to a reasonable minimum. Wouldn't want to waste any energy on that sort of thing.
You could make that comment about most mmos, EVE included. MMOs charge an asinine amount of money per year in access/rental or RMT fees for what they deliver. They charge what they can, CCP included, because that is what the market will bear. It's what they can get away with. They would charge a ton more if they thought they could.
Please don't setup the false dichotomy that just because you can log into the CCP servers that they don't overcharge and put as little effort as they can get away with into harvesting that revenue and that somehow makes it more moral than a project crowdfunding their development. Every project and business can always use more money and resources. The moral issue is that they are trying to deliver on that
It's fine that they are raising money? The problem is the way that they are doing it; it is quote-unquote "unsustainable". Although there is value in debating the worth of an online subscription fee (CIG does this too, by the way), this is a different debate from *the ethics of charging for a product that doesn't exist*
¢a$h citizen: best damn spaceship seller ever
Don't get me wrong: they are probably doing a fair bit of damage control, looking at bell curves of all the backer data, determining what they can release in a reasonable time frame, etc. However, take a walk through your hanger, play the dogfighting module, play the social module, play the Murray Cup (wonder what ole Bill would have to say about all this?). Can you honestly tell someone with a straight face that *all of those ships* will be ready *in the capacity they have been sold* by 2017?
As I said before, damage control. They are looking at the vast majority of backers vs the outlying whales. They understand these people have spent tens of thousands of dollars, and are vocal about expecting nothing. They could be served you-know-what sandwiches and would devour them with a grin.
I don't think questions of ethics are at all out of place at this juncture, and trying to cloud the issue by comparing this to charging for a product that is in a released and cohesively, comprehensively playable state adds nothing of value to this conversation.
Post edited by Phaserlight on
"The simple is the seal of the true and beauty is the splendor of truth" -Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar Authored 139 missions in VendettaOnline and 6 tracks in Distance
2. Chris Roberts is out of EFFING control with his stretch goals (See new thread about skills to repair vessels) ..**snip**
...................
I see a team working through the promised stretch goals in a methodical way.
Have fun
What you see is also in question. (At least by me). I've read many of your replies and so many times, I find myself wondering just how closely tied to this project you really are?
But for now, I'll keep what you just posted in mind.
What you see is also in question. (At least by me). I've read many of your replies and so many times, I find myself wondering just how closely tied to this project you really are?
But for now, I'll keep what you just posted in mind.
What you see is also in question. (At least by me). I've read many of your replies and so many times, I find myself wondering just how closely tied to this project you really are?
But for now, I'll keep what you just posted in mind.
See private mail.
Have fun
I'm going to retract this and apologize to you. I really should not have been trying to imply something I have no solid evidence for.
2. Chris Roberts is out of EFFING control with his stretch goals (See new thread about skills to repair vessels) ..**snip**
CIG is doing what they promised in earlier stretch Goals :
21 M$ stretch goal: "...Salvage Mechanic: Salvage isn’t an aside: it’s a career, with its own
mechanic, story tie-ins and universe-shaping endgames. Search the galaxy
for a host of valuable and interesting secrets using both the flight
and FPS components. ...:
59 M$ stretch goal: "....The Crucible is also part of a larger planned repair system...."
And the last stretch goal was introduced over a year ago, no new stretch goals have been added since then.
You say "....constantly expanding this project to impossible levels....".
I see a team working through the promised stretch goals in a methodical way.
Have fun
They are working through the stretch goals and it's great they are keeping their promises but my issue is if it was a 21 million dollar stretch goal and the last stretch goal was over a year ago then why do they need to raise more money?
Did they not plan out how much each stretch goal would actually cost to design, create, test and implement?
Plan out stretch goals?? This is Chris Roberts you are talking about.
Some of the post Kickstarter stretch goals were dead easy (usually ships), but others were some serious game systems, likely requiring a ton of work to integrate.
Watching the original Kickstarter stretch goals, they more and more resembled the results of hurried meetings where everyone was trying to come up with SOMETHING that they could throw out there.
If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.
@Kefo There is no way they can build the game CR wants at this time for 100m. Heck I would think he is going to need at the least double the 100m before he finally starts building the game with a working engine. Already stated the CryEngine isn't going to work to build the game until they rebuilt it. Like I stated in another thread that is why he hired so many people that worked and made the CryEngine.
Dan Tracy I believe is the first one that knows the CryEngine inside and out walked away from SC. More are expected to leave after the holidays. At least that is the rumor more plan on leaving. CR is a hard guy to work for, at least that is what has been said in the past. Google it if you need proof.
Brenics.. i would think you would appreciate that they are slimming the organization.. =P
Any way... we do not know how many of those rumored people are leaving from having their work done and how many are caught up in the "rebellion" that the internet has been whipping up... As someone who have seen stuff like that happen in real time at a previous job... You always have a few that get caught up in the narrative, work them self in to a frenzy and storms out.. over pretty much nothing.
So as fun as it is to read up on the daily bickering back and forth.... Could i ask for you warriors to dig up something new.... this is getting boring and if the entertainment value of the pro vs anti-SC crowd dies down... you will soon be in the position of the angry SWG vets... you will get your own sub board that nobody visits... =P
Again, I have no problem with the game not being finished yet.....just stop asking me for more money when you are bringing in record millions.
Viper ... you should really go into your SC account settings and simple switch off the e-mail notification option if you do not like the mails. And i am not sure what mails from CIG YOU get, because I get ONE mail per week in digest format. And that does NOT contain any ship ads, but a list of the articles that have been published on the official SC homepage this week.
Celebrating the 3rd anniversary of the kickstarter is as lame as your wife or GF wanting you to take them out or buy them something for the anniversary of the first time you went on a date.
It's an image thing, right now they seem interested mostly in coming up with more ways to raise money. Will there ever be a point where they say "thank you folks, we have the money to deliver the game we've envisioned., and they'll quit holding their hand ?
What's next, a holiday telethon or "run for the game" event?
Just because they can continue to take in the money (or fleece the suckers, depending on your viewpoint) doesn't mean they should, especially if they really don't need it.
It's a question of ethics.
lol someone has been or isn't married anymore. :chuffed: Or maybe you just believe in keeping the romance and affection in your relationship in check and to a reasonable minimum. Wouldn't want to waste any energy on that sort of thing.
You could make that comment about most mmos, EVE included. MMOs charge an asinine amount of money per year in access/rental or RMT fees for what they deliver. They charge what they can, CCP included, because that is what the market will bear. It's what they can get away with. They would charge a ton more if they thought they could.
Please don't setup the false dichotomy that just because you can log into the CCP servers that they don't overcharge and put as little effort as they can get away with into harvesting that revenue and that somehow makes it more moral than a project crowdfunding their development. Every project and business can always use more money and resources. The moral issue is that they are trying to deliver on that
LOL, I've been married for 32 years, so I think I've sort of got down what matters.
I pay CCP for a service, and I don't feel the $650.00 or so a year I give them is an unreasonable amount of money for the services provided. Sure, I wish they had reinvested more of the profits in EVE than some of their other ventures, but the choice is theirs, not much I can say or do about it.
It is a very big difference to pay someone for a service, vs paying someone for promises.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
But then you have to go back and take CR's words to heart. "We can make the game for 20m"
He said that about the game he proposed at the beginning of Kickstarter (500 k€ from Kickstarter as a proof for community interest to get 20+ M$ish from investors). Much has changed since then. The project is now much larger (about 100+ stretch goals larger). The new larger project costs more than 20 M$. Which has been said time and time again.
Have fun
But where does the scope creep end? Is it a never ending cycle of the more they raise, the more scope they'll add, and the further out the release date goes for a playable game.
What is the actual vision. Time to lock scope, set hard dates, stop pushing for more money and deliver something of value.
Continuing to market endlessly while delivering little calls into question what all the money is for.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
But then you have to go back and take CR's words to heart. "We can make the game for 20m"
He said that about the game he proposed at the beginning of Kickstarter (500 k€ from Kickstarter as a proof for community interest to get 20+ M$ish from investors). Much has changed since then. The project is now much larger (about 100+ stretch goals larger). The new larger project costs more than 20 M$. Which has been said time and time again.
Have fun
I think CR should've adopted the model of delivering the game in stages, like Elite Dangerous did, instead of trying to complete a monumental project and delivering it all in one go.
IMO the release model that has been chosen for Elite Dangerous is much better than what CR chose for Star Citizen.
It is better to deliver less of something initially and improve on it then keep delaying on the delivery.
But where does the scope creep end? Is it a never ending cycle of the more they raise, the more scope they'll add, and the further out the release date goes for a playable game.
What is the actual vision. Time to lock scope, set hard dates, stop pushing for more money and deliver something of value.
Continuing to market endlessly while delivering little calls into question what all the money is for.
As much as I am pro crowdfunding, I am against running ongoing campaigns.
It's fine to add stretch goals, but only if you have mentioned them in your original campaign. It's true I'm not your customer yet - but I am donating to your vision anyhow, I need to know the whole plan right from the beginning. Campaign should run a course (30-90 days) under a legitimate platform, then ends. If developers want to broaden their vision later they should do it at a certain milestone - like deliver the alpha first then be able to run another campaign on that very same platform again.
Setting up shop on one's site and selling stuff is not crowdfunding anymore.
Gaming Rocks next gen. community for last gen. gamers launching soon.
But where does the scope creep end? Is it a never ending cycle of the more they raise, the more scope they'll add, and the further out the release date goes for a playable game.
What is the actual vision. Time to lock scope, set hard dates, stop pushing for more money and deliver something of value.
Continuing to market endlessly while delivering little calls into question what all the money is for.
As much as I am pro crowdfunding, I am against running ongoing campaigns.
It's fine to add stretch goals, but only if you have mentioned them in your original campaign. It's true I'm not your customer yet - but I am donating to your vision anyhow, I need to know the whole plan right from the beginning. Campaign should run a course (30-90 days) under a legitimate platform, then ends. If developers want to broaden their vision later they should do it at a certain milestone - like deliver the alpha first then be able to run another campaign on that very same platform again.
Setting up shop on one's site and selling stuff is not crowdfunding anymore.
SC is only guilty of being successful with the model. This isn't, by far, an isolated incident. Eastern MMORPGs have adopted this type of funding for a while now.
Basically it boils down to who is anyone to say how a campaign like this is run. Some don't agree with it, and I get that but, ultimately, it's the decision of the backer to put their money into it. Stretch Goals were mentioned. They've opened up to refunds, now. So it's actually quite transparent compared to plenty of projects. The fact it's been open for business since the beginning of development is a point of contention, but I don't think it's a mystery to anyone what they're doing. Of course they're funding. However, anyone who thinks it's not a race, too, is foolish. Funding has dropped below their burn, so it's crunch time.
I could care less either way and I'm not sure why someone would care if they continue funding throughout development. More funds increases the chance of success.
Comments
They either have a still have a lot of money, yet are relentlessly selling ship jpegs, or they've gone through a large chunk of their money already, and need the steady 3 mil a month to keep going.
Both those possibilities raise questions....
If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.
Star Citizen – The Extinction Level Event
4/13/15 > ELE has been updated look for 16-04-13.
http://www.dereksmart.org/2016/04/star-citizen-the-ele/
Enjoy and know the truth always comes to light!
Have fun
What is this, a legacy thing that can be carried on if this project goes bust?
"Come celebrate SC's 12th no-release anniversary! Pictures of ships will be sold as nostalgia to bring back those "early days" feel."
So negative.
They are having a "sale" - it is that time of year. Just about every other company under the sun is having a "sale" as well. And coming as it does it dovetails with the announcement of the expanded testing.
If the project ran out of money and released unfinished people would you be saying: "they didn't do enough to promote the game"?
Gaming as a whole needs ambition. It needs big games: ESO, Destiny, Witcher, Dark Souls, SW BF whatever otherwise we will be lamenting why the only games being released are ones for phones.
If the project ran out of money, I'd be saying 'Chris Roberts strikes again!'
Ambition is great, if it's founded on something real. My biggest beef is with the 'Roberts is a Genious!' crew, who mostly listen to him talk and take it as gospel. His reputation is really overinflated. His egotism sounds and sells well, but his game creation competence suffers from it. The less he has to do with the actual Star Citizen game management and design, the better the project will turn out.
If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.
mmorpg junkie since 1999
How can you keep on defending that PoS game?? Elite Dangerous is a much better product AND is a real game .. I have noticed your methods and I conclude that you are one of three things .. A heavy backer, an employee or a brain dead fanboi ..
Have fun
Selling products that don't exist based on a theme that doesn't exist isn't negative? This shit right here is "Snake Oil Salesmanship" And I am calling it out. It's wrong. It's what's really negative. And the more they do it, the more people are going to start asking...."Did you really run out of money?" At this point I am beginning to believe there are one of 2 very strong possibilities in the works here. (Or both)
1. They ran / running out of money.
2. Chris Roberts is out of EFFING control with his stretch goals (See new thread about skills to repair vessels) and will bury this project into the ground through constantly expanding this project to impossible levels. How can you ever score, when the goal posts are moving faster than you can run?
Ambition is one thing, It must be tempered with reality and business sense or it just becomes a dream turned nightmare. If this game doesn't release, it's going to have the opposite effect as what you are hoping for in that regard.
21 M$ stretch goal: "...Salvage Mechanic: Salvage isn’t an aside: it’s a career, with its own mechanic, story tie-ins and universe-shaping endgames. Search the galaxy for a host of valuable and interesting secrets using both the flight and FPS components. ...:
59 M$ stretch goal: "....The Crucible is also part of a larger planned repair system...."
And the last stretch goal was introduced over a year ago, no new stretch goals have been added since then.
You say "....constantly expanding this project to impossible levels....".
I see a team working through the promised stretch goals in a methodical way.
Have fun
It's fine that they are raising money? The problem is the way that they are doing it; it is quote-unquote "unsustainable". Although there is value in debating the worth of an online subscription fee (CIG does this too, by the way), this is a different debate from *the ethics of charging for a product that doesn't exist*
¢a$h citizen: best damn spaceship seller ever
Don't get me wrong: they are probably doing a fair bit of damage control, looking at bell curves of all the backer data, determining what they can release in a reasonable time frame, etc. However, take a walk through your hanger, play the dogfighting module, play the social module, play the Murray Cup (wonder what ole Bill would have to say about all this?). Can you honestly tell someone with a straight face that *all of those ships* will be ready *in the capacity they have been sold* by 2017?
As I said before, damage control. They are looking at the vast majority of backers vs the outlying whales. They understand these people have spent tens of thousands of dollars, and are vocal about expecting nothing. They could be served you-know-what sandwiches and would devour them with a grin.
I don't think questions of ethics are at all out of place at this juncture, and trying to cloud the issue by comparing this to charging for a product that is in a released and cohesively, comprehensively playable state adds nothing of value to this conversation.
"The simple is the seal of the true and beauty is the splendor of truth" -Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar
Authored 139 missions in Vendetta Online and 6 tracks in Distance
But for now, I'll keep what you just posted in mind.
Have fun
I really should not have been trying to imply something I have no solid evidence for.
Did they not plan out how much each stretch goal would actually cost to design, create, test and implement?
Plan out stretch goals?? This is Chris Roberts you are talking about.
Some of the post Kickstarter stretch goals were dead easy (usually ships), but others were some serious game systems, likely requiring a ton of work to integrate.
Watching the original Kickstarter stretch goals, they more and more resembled the results of hurried meetings where everyone was trying to come up with SOMETHING that they could throw out there.
If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.
Dan Tracy I believe is the first one that knows the CryEngine inside and out walked away from SC. More are expected to leave after the holidays. At least that is the rumor more plan on leaving. CR is a hard guy to work for, at least that is what has been said in the past. Google it if you need proof.
Star Citizen – The Extinction Level Event
4/13/15 > ELE has been updated look for 16-04-13.
http://www.dereksmart.org/2016/04/star-citizen-the-ele/
Enjoy and know the truth always comes to light!
Any way... we do not know how many of those rumored people are leaving from having their work done and how many are caught up in the "rebellion" that the internet has been whipping up... As someone who have seen stuff like that happen in real time at a previous job... You always have a few that get caught up in the narrative, work them self in to a frenzy and storms out.. over pretty much nothing.
So as fun as it is to read up on the daily bickering back and forth.... Could i ask for you warriors to dig up something new.... this is getting boring and if the entertainment value of the pro vs anti-SC crowd dies down... you will soon be in the position of the angry SWG vets... you will get your own sub board that nobody visits... =P
This have been a good conversation
I pay CCP for a service, and I don't feel the $650.00 or so a year I give them is an unreasonable amount of money for the services provided. Sure, I wish they had reinvested more of the profits in EVE than some of their other ventures, but the choice is theirs, not much I can say or do about it.
It is a very big difference to pay someone for a service, vs paying someone for promises.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
What is the actual vision. Time to lock scope, set hard dates, stop pushing for more money and deliver something of value.
Continuing to market endlessly while delivering little calls into question what all the money is for.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
IMO the release model that has been chosen for Elite Dangerous is much better than what CR chose for Star Citizen.
It is better to deliver less of something initially and improve on it then keep delaying on the delivery.
As much as I am pro crowdfunding, I am against running ongoing campaigns.
It's fine to add stretch goals, but only if you have mentioned them in your original campaign. It's true I'm not your customer yet - but I am donating to your vision anyhow, I need to know the whole plan right from the beginning.
Campaign should run a course (30-90 days) under a legitimate platform, then ends. If developers want to broaden their vision later they should do it at a certain milestone - like deliver the alpha first then be able to run another campaign on that very same platform again.
Setting up shop on one's site and selling stuff is not crowdfunding anymore.
SC is only guilty of being successful with the model. This isn't, by far, an isolated incident. Eastern MMORPGs have adopted this type of funding for a while now.
Basically it boils down to who is anyone to say how a campaign like this is run. Some don't agree with it, and I get that but, ultimately, it's the decision of the backer to put their money into it. Stretch Goals were mentioned. They've opened up to refunds, now. So it's actually quite transparent compared to plenty of projects. The fact it's been open for business since the beginning of development is a point of contention, but I don't think it's a mystery to anyone what they're doing. Of course they're funding. However, anyone who thinks it's not a race, too, is foolish. Funding has dropped below their burn, so it's crunch time.
I could care less either way and I'm not sure why someone would care if they continue funding throughout development. More funds increases the chance of success.
Crazkanuk
----------------
Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
----------------