Heart of Thorns - A Foundation of an Expansion - Guild Wars 2 Review

SBFord

Heart of Thorns - A Foundation of an Expansion - Guild Wars 2 Review

We’ve put well over 50 hours into Heart of Thorns on the road to reviewing Guild Wars 2’s massive expansion. Not a single aspect of the game missed out on some new addition of another, so there was a lot to take in. We even got to play a bit of the new incredibly challenging raids that launched on the 17th before scoring our review. So then... how does Heart of Thorns stack up?

Read the full story here

Righteous_Rock

With all of that , can we expect to see a stronger focus on competitive pvp now that the next phase of the mmorpg aspect has entered end of life and competitive play has entered into an age of unprecedented uprising?

Vissarion

How is masteries a grind???? You unlock them once and you are done, it's what you do after lvl80 instead of leveling to a new cap, and its ACCOUNT BOUND!!!!!!! With casual play you can maximize your masteries in a month tops and most of them are not even important for playing, just unlocks some perks (like fighting a boss each day f.e.). I say you better remove it from cons cause its definitily not..

BillMurphy

Vissarion said:

How is masteries a grind???? You unlock them once and you are done, it's what you do after lvl80 instead of leveling to a new cap, and its ACCOUNT BOUND!!!!!!! With casual play you can maximize your masteries in a month tops and most of them are not even important for playing, just unlocks some perks (like fighting a boss each day f.e.). I say you better remove it from cons cause its definitily not in my opinion.

You forgot to add "in my opinion". I fixed it for you.

Ikeda

@BillMurphy ,
That's terrible. You shouldn't edit his post to add a preposition there. That's the end of the sentence!

But yea, IN MY OPINON because IN MY OPINION the masteries are a huge grind if you haven't kept up with the game.

Edit: Added the HTML so my thoughts are separated.

sarpqhhw

Great review.

I did had similar experiences as Bill initially, but my experience completely changed as I progressed further in the expansion.. When I first entered the expansion it felt like everything will require a group, and it was very dangerous to venture into the jungle alone, but after 2 weeks things started to change.

I learned the strength and weaknesses of mobs, I figured out what is going on in the map, and I learned to look at my own build and identify skills that will help me in the jungle. After 2 weeks I could solo most events, and I am a casual, below average skilled player.

On the first day the events where I was wiping both solo and with groups of 5, after 2 weeks the same events with the same difficulty I was soling. I found it refreshing that GW2 is finally making use of the fantastic combat system that they have in PVE.

Exploration wise also I had similar experience as Bill initially, but that changed completely in a few days too. I think these maps offer more solo exploration opportunities than any map Arenanet have previously done. The difference is that exploration in new zones will have a sense of danger that is missing from the core game.

One thing that I think a lot of people may be missing is that the game keeps track of your individual progress and the zone wide progress separately. If you are running solo you will still get rewarded based on your individual progress. If you are running in large groups then you can go after the zone wide progress.

I think the major issue in this expansion is that there is a learning curve for navigating new zones, and fighting new mobs etc. Most of us MMO players are no longer used to a learning curve in the open world. Think about it when did you last had worry about not succeeding in open world in an MMO or learn how to fight mobs in the open world?

I do think it is a valid question to ask if there should be a need for a learning curve in the open world.

Righteous_Rock

Grind is defined as ... doing something I don't want to do while playing video games to get to where I want to be. Grind is a barrier that is hard to overcome for many, think about it, at the end of the day, you're just playing a video game. I don't have endless hours to spend grinding in video games, can't we just pay for more power?

Wandris

I thought the masteries were great as a form of progression, it made me slow down and take the time to explore and do other things I would have otherwise skipped or put off indefinatley. I think grinding is a form of mental illness that gamers get after they lose purpose of why they play these games. I look back at my first year or two of playing MMO's and it never felt like a grind then, although it became so after a while and for about 8-10 years everything I did in gaming felt like a grind. Once I took a few steps back and rediscovered purpose and enjoyment I can pretty much play anything for any length of time and never does it feel like a grind, even in the most "grindy" games out there. Grinding is a disease people! Anyways I think this expansion deserves at least a 9+, it is expansive and touches on every aspect of GW2, it is big and beautiful, and it takes the GW2 experience to the next level. I don't think I have ever seen an expansion in any MMO that manages to so completely revitalize a game.

StarS0ft

BillMurphy said:

Vissarion said:

How is masteries a grind???? You unlock them once and you are done, it's what you do after lvl80 instead of leveling to a new cap, and its ACCOUNT BOUND!!!!!!! With casual play you can maximize your masteries in a month tops and most of them are not even important for playing, just unlocks some perks (like fighting a boss each day f.e.). I say you better remove it from cons cause its definitily not in my opinion.

You forgot to add "in my opinion". I fixed it for you.

Bill, I Diasgree. It's a life beyong 80 level. It should not be something for a few hours to finalize. Otherwise what we will do after that? Without this clear progression all evens become meaningless as any other events in core Tyria... its much better than just "leveling grind" or "gear grind" Or If you sure that this is pure grind, then you have to complan as well something like that: accound bound magic find progression is very big grind! Yes! And No! Because nobody grinding it except may be few crazy ppl ..imho :-)

Greatsword

Thanks for praising the underappreciated soundtrack. It's indeed among the best I have heard in any computer game since Arcanum.

meonthissite

One of the reasons I left the PC MMO gaming market was directly due to grind. Instead of making it about the fun, the immersion, or standard loot rules, they've successfully duped people into believing grinding is what MMO's are all about which couldn't be further from the truth. Sad to see it coming to this.

Katriz

@BillMurphy Did Anet pay you not to talk about WvW? Is it ignored in media as well? We WvW players are asking 3 years for GOOD changes and communication. Anet vision of WvW will kill this game mode completely, you can see at new borderlands which feel like pve maps, and locking WvW upgrades behing HUUGEEE pve farm fest. They had to tell you something. WvW players wont believe in next "we are working on it, soon". Here is nice oveview of what happend in WvW in the past 3 years: reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/3ser11/world_versus_world_a_history_of_decline_a_future/ Maybe spvp/pve people will find out, why we WvW players are complaining all the time. Even president of Anet said that "If you're into WvW, you're into PvE". So you can clearly see how Anet is out of touch with WvW, we dont want PVE. Maybe media sites will wake up.

Thupli

I keep hearing of people d/cing at end of 90-120 min events and getting nothing for it and continued empty maps as major problems. Did you experience any of this, Bill? I'm still waiting on raid feedback to buy this xpac.

elocke

Pretty good review. For me personally though, because I can't solo the normal map content, it fails in every way.

JackoSpades

There IS a heavy dose of grind in the new content. Just because masteries are a one time earn doesn't mean they are enjoyable to get. Map all the new zones and then, ta-da, collect 800 of each currency for the next step

FrodoFragins

I'm finding the expansion story to be fun but grindy.  A lot of the areas and mobs seem a LOT tougher than pre expansion content.  It definitely gets annoying at times.  I died several times just trying to reach waypoints to progress the story and now I seem to have hit a roadblock in the story, skill wise that never happened before.

sniperman248

Vissarion said:

How is masteries a grind???? You unlock them once and you are done, it's what you do after lvl80 instead of leveling to a new cap, and its ACCOUNT BOUND!!!!!!! With casual play you can maximize your masteries in a month tops and most of them are not even important for playing, just unlocks some perks (like fighting a boss each day f.e.). I say you better remove it from cons cause its definitily not..

bro its a grind , because after certain tiers of masteries and note there are several mastery lines, and oh there's a mastery line for the raid as well. Certain tiers will take over 1million experience. Now note on average if your lucky the dynamic events will reward anywhere from 16k. to 46k. and if you include the map event bonus for participation only scaled anywhere from 16 to 30k. experience. So yes sir that is a grind, something Arena Net promised would never happen to this game.

Dr_Binks

I am disappointed in the xpan..... it's all flash with little soul.... it's one big grid fest! I have only made it to lvl 11 in mastery and I really don't care to go get anymore because I'm tired of the new maps and content already, and why because it's so much of a grind, and annoying even when your doing the story! How is it a good thing to place 3 vet mobs and pocket rapters around story quest points that will attack you when your in the story? You can't get into the story if you have to fight mobs as the NPC is talking to you...... That's just one of many things that has annoyed me to the point of stopping. And as always the loot sucks..... green and blue drops is all you get from up lvl mobs.... really... is that all ... oh wait you'll get some type of shiny ball thingies that you sell for a few copper..... come-on is that all my time is worth to Anet? And then you have WvW..... what the hell did they do there? I went in to WvW 1 time and have not been back, and then fractals!!! All they did is brake them up add a brake bar and hit point and call them new.... really come-on peeps we paid for this and some even paid 100$ for it.... And before all the fan boys jump on me I do really like GW2 that's why it has me so pissed. I have 12 toons and 4 of them have full ascended sets so I'm not new to the game. GW2 has always had a feel to it..... or soul and this xpan is missing that!

Gaia_Hunter

Dr.Nicktu said:

I am disappointed in the xpan..... it's all flash with little soul.... it's one big grid fest! I have only made it to lvl 11 in mastery and I really don't care to go get anymore because I'm tired of the new maps and content already, and why because it's so much of a grind, and annoying even when your doing the story! How is it a good thing to place 3 vet mobs and pocket rapters around story quest points that will attack you when your in the story? You can't get into the story if you have to fight mobs as the NPC is talking to you...... That's just one of many things that has annoyed me to the point of stopping. And as always the loot sucks..... green and blue drops is all you get from up lvl mobs.... really... is that all ... oh wait you'll get some type of shiny ball thingies that you sell for a few copper..... come-on is that all my time is worth to Anet? And then you have WvW..... what the hell did they do there? I went in to WvW 1 time and have not been back, and then fractals!!! All they did is brake them up add a brake bar and hit point and call them new.... really come-on peeps we paid for this and some even paid 100$ for it.... And before all the fan boys jump on me I do really like GW2 that's why it has me so pissed. I have 12 toons and 4 of them have full ascended sets so I'm not new to the game. GW2 has always had a feel to it..... or soul and this xpan is missing that!

Pocket raptors is free XP.

Gaia_Hunter

Katriz said:

@BillMurphy Did Anet pay you not to talk about WvW? Is it ignored in media as well? We WvW players are asking 3 years for GOOD changes and communication. Anet vision of WvW will kill this game mode completely, you can see at new borderlands which feel like pve maps, and locking WvW upgrades behing HUUGEEE pve farm fest. They had to tell you something. WvW players wont believe in next "we are working on it, soon". Here is nice oveview of what happend in WvW in the past 3 years: reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/3ser11/world_versus_world_a_history_of_decline_a_future/ Maybe spvp/pve people will find out, why we WvW players are complaining all the time. Even president of Anet said that "If you're into WvW, you're into PvE". So you can clearly see how Anet is out of touch with WvW, we dont want PVE. Maybe media sites will wake up.

I don't know. My first impression of the map wasn't good, but I'm enjoying it more and more. And one thing is true - no more one blob to rule them all.

Katriz

This map is too big for current WvW population, even top tier servers couldnt get queued map on prime time before expansion. Secondly please check the amount of pve materials you must to farm to unlock any major wvw upgrades from War room in guild hall, it is ridiculous. There are forcing WvW people to go pve and farm it. Is it ok? It is like forcing pve people to go spvp/wvw, cus only there you can get all major materials you need. there is no way to upgrade war room by playing WvW. They have no idea how WvW is working. They clearly dont have any WvW team, just sometimes some pve map designer will create map(look at desert borderland). Their whole team is pushing for fake spvp esport and raids.

Dakeru

Masteries being a grind is such nonsense. You pick what you want to level and then you play the game.

Playing a game isn't the same as grinding.
And that is not an opinion but a fact.

Kiryi

When I first started playing HoT, I was surprised at the difficulty in the new zone. I'm not an expert player, in fact I'm quite casual. However, I've played enough over the years, I was able to right away unlock Bard and the first ability for it. I figure that should allow me to enjoy the content.
The pacing was interesting. I'm glad to see so much activity. However, like you, I enjoy the central Tyria pacing better. I enjoy being able to feel like I can take a breath without being plowed over by mobs. I'll go back to HoT when I've run out of other things to play. I'm just not hooked enough to invest in it the current design atm. Too bad, it looks gorgeous.

Zeroxin

I found the expansion to have both group and solo ability. Maybe because I'm a crazy person who likes to fight champs and Legendaries on my own for whatever reason but I've been enjoying the solo game so far and I join the herd when I think there's an event I'd like to complete.

I never felt forced to group with anyone in the open world in this expansion.

Zeroxin

Gaia_Hunter said:

Dr.Nicktu said:
I am disappointed in the xpan..... it's all flash with little soul.... it's one big grid fest! I have only made it to lvl 11 in mastery and I really don't care to go get anymore because I'm tired of the new maps and content already, and why because it's so much of a grind, and annoying even when your doing the story! How is it a good thing to place 3 vet mobs and pocket rapters around story quest points that will attack you when your in the story? You can't get into the story if you have to fight mobs as the NPC is talking to you...... That's just one of many things that has annoyed me to the point of stopping. And as always the loot sucks..... green and blue drops is all you get from up lvl mobs.... really... is that all ... oh wait you'll get some type of shiny ball thingies that you sell for a few copper..... come-on is that all my time is worth to Anet? And then you have WvW..... what the hell did they do there? I went in to WvW 1 time and have not been back, and then fractals!!! All they did is brake them up add a brake bar and hit point and call them new.... really come-on peeps we paid for this and some even paid 100$ for it.... And before all the fan boys jump on me I do really like GW2 that's why it has me so pissed. I have 12 toons and 4 of them have full ascended sets so I'm not new to the game. GW2 has always had a feel to it..... or soul and this xpan is missing that!


Pocket raptors is free XP.


Haha I love Pocket Raptors. I don't know why... maybe it's because of the XP.

Razeekster

Meh, GW2 is too grindy in general in my opinion. It's funny because one of ArenaNet's original main selling points was that GW2 wasn't a game involving grind.

In all truth though what game doesn't have grind? I don't even know why companies bother trying to say their game isn't grindy, at one point or another it seems like every game has some form of grind, even if small.