2016 Marks the end of Mainstream MMORPG

kemono55kemono55 Member UncommonPosts: 124
Surly it is not only me thinking that.

At least in the west, upcoming titles are only from "smaller" developers,
and targets a more niche crowd.
It's either that, or rehashed games from Korea/China.

I feel single player games are on the rise and trending, once again.

I think this is a good thing, perhaps we will see more diversity in mmos again,
and less "Top 10 anticipated mmos of XXXX" videos on youtube now.
«1345

Comments

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAMember RarePosts: 26,735
    I agree. Even Blizz is no longer making a new MMORPG, and instead focus on other types of online games (a MOBA, card game, and a shooter).

    In the meanwhile, websites will convince players that anything online is a MMO, so that there is something to talk about.

    In fact, let's start doing that. How many of you think that Overwatch will be a good game? Many should be pleased that it is NOT going to be f2p. And i bet some sites will lumping it into MMOs (MMOFPS?).
  • Vermillion_RaventhalVermillion_Raventhal Oxon Hill, MDMember RarePosts: 2,611
    Good local multiplayer game epics would be nice. I am enjoying Divinity Original Sin with my friend now.  Decent story, strategic combat is good.  Current MMORPG trend is saturated and doesn't need to be MMO.
  • KyleranKyleran Paradise City, FLMember LegendaryPosts: 25,306
    I'd say the launch of ESO was really the day the music died, and we are a few years into the next era.

    On hiatus from EVE Online since Dec 2016 - Screw off-grid PVE boosting changes

    Pouring on extra "Salt" for 2017

    In my day MMORPG's were so hard we fought our way through dungeons in the snow, uphill both ways.

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon


  • GeezerGamerGeezerGamer ChairMember EpicPosts: 7,731
    Some of us can hope right??
  • kemono55kemono55 Member UncommonPosts: 124
    I agree that the launch of ESO could effectively be used as a landmark as well.

    If I was going to summarize this year, in mmropg terms,
    with eyes through a pc gamers glasses, it would be:

    - Blizzards new mmo turned out to be an FPS
    - Wow revealed massive loss of subscribers
    - Wildstar went Free 2 Play, but everyone forgot about that game anyhow.
    - Everquest Next declared vaporware, with the selloff of SOE.
    - 2 Korean mmos finally arrives in the West, after 5 something years of waiting.
    - The year we forgot about the hype we had for Archage
    - GW2 expansion released, does anyone still play that game?
    - Lots of Indie companies wants to make mmo that I know nothing about.
    - No WoW clones announced.


    I know it's kind of biased,
    but if I were to try to look at the mmo world from an outside perspective,
    this would probably be it.
  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAMember RarePosts: 26,735
    edited November 2015
    kemono55 said:

    - Blizzards new mmo turned out to be an FPS
    wow .. be careful here. Last time i use the label MMO on a non-massively MP game like WoT (and remember that many reviewers, and websites are doing so already), people jump all over me.

     So .. invariably someone is going to tell you that "Overwatch is not a MMO".

     Although the fun thing is that this and other site probably will call it a MMOFPS.
    Post edited by nariusseldon on
  • madazzmadazz A town, ONMember UncommonPosts: 1,843
    kemono55 said:

    - Blizzards new mmo turned out to be an FPS
    wow .. be careful here. Last time i use the label MMO on a non-massively MP game like WoT (and remember that many reviewers, and websites are doing so already), people jump all over me.

     So .. invariably someone is going to tell you that "Overwatch is not a MMO".

     Although the fun thing is that this and other site probably will call it a MMOFPS.
    You may be a bit confused. He didn't call overwatch an mmo. He said it WAS an mmo but is now just an fps.
  • madazzmadazz A town, ONMember UncommonPosts: 1,843
    It's not the end of mainstream mmos. One of the silliest things I've read today.... Just because things slow down doesn't mean it's the end.

    This is a good thing. So many people got into mmo type gaming and made too many demands that mmos stagnated. It's like the developers were an artist and you guys were over their shoulder while painting telling them it needs more this or that, and then to remove this. Which means too many people got a say and the developers just threw paint at a canvas.

    This is great in my opinion. I think something awesome will come out as a result of big studios taking a step back and rethinking things. Hopefully they will learn to ignore the loud people who don't even know what mmo stands for and actually create a game they envisioned.
  • stayontargetstayontarget Tacoma, WAMember UncommonPosts: 6,441
    The mmo community Diversified awhile ago,  we are no longer grouped in a select few games of old and that might be a good thing.


    Velika: City of Wheels: Among the mortal races, the humans were the only one that never built cities or great empires; a curse laid upon them by their creator, Gidd, forced them to wander as nomads for twenty centuries...

  • blueturtle13blueturtle13 Valve Corporation Member LegendaryPosts: 9,679
    What does it mean to be a mainstream mmo?

    거북이는 목을 내밀 때 안 움직입니다












  • kemono55kemono55 Member UncommonPosts: 124
    edited November 2015
    Most western mmo's post World of Warcraft was (is) mainstream mmo's.
    They try to cater to everyone, the young the old, the single player,
    the hardcore and the ones that only have 30 minutes of gaming time at weekends.
    Which is why they end up feeling, for the most part, very bland.

    At about 2006/2007, or, around that time, it seemed like every
    publisher (and their grandmother) announced a new and "better" mmo.
    Hence we got the term "wow killer".

    We saw the rise (and fall) of big budget titles, such as,
    Warhammer online, Age of Conan, Guild wars 1/2, Tabula Rasa, 
    Neverwinter, DC Universe, City of Heroes, The Eldar Scrolls Online,
    Rift, Defiance, Star Trek Online, Star Wars the Old Republic,
    Lord of the rings online, Dungeons and Dragons Online,
    Wildstar, Global Agenda, and more..

    During this era it was common for several big budget western
    mmorpg titles to be released within the same year.
    But alas, no one managed to claim the title "wow killer".
    Post edited by kemono55 on
  • bcbullybcbully Westland, MIMember RarePosts: 9,033
    Kyleran said:
    I'd say the launch of ESO was really the day the music died, and we are a few years into the next era.
    ESO will be the last for awhile. It will carry the torch. 
  • KyleranKyleran Paradise City, FLMember LegendaryPosts: 25,306
    madazz said:
    It's not the end of mainstream mmos. One of the silliest things I've read today.... Just because things slow down doesn't mean it's the end.

    This is a good thing. So many people got into mmo type gaming and made too many demands that mmos stagnated. It's like the developers were an artist and you guys were over their shoulder while painting telling them it needs more this or that, and then to remove this. Which means too many people got a say and the developers just threw paint at a canvas.

    This is great in my opinion. I think something awesome will come out as a result of big studios taking a step back and rethinking things. Hopefully they will learn to ignore the loud people who don't even know what mmo stands for and actually create a game they envisioned.
    It Is only silly because you're not really grasping the conversation or what's being said here.

    Development of large MMORPGs has basically come to a halt by the major firms in the west and now lies in the hands of the smaller Indy or crowdfunded development teams.

    The larger firms did not fall back to regroup they exited stage right.

    On hiatus from EVE Online since Dec 2016 - Screw off-grid PVE boosting changes

    Pouring on extra "Salt" for 2017

    In my day MMORPG's were so hard we fought our way through dungeons in the snow, uphill both ways.

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon


  • AmatheAmathe Miami, FLMember RarePosts: 2,771
    I think you have a point @Kemono55.  The pickings are kinda slim. 

    EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests

  • Azaron_NightbladeAzaron_Nightblade KingsmouthMember RarePosts: 3,880
    We've been seeing diversity for a while. People just like to over-simply things and call everything a WoW clone the moment it has quests in it. MMOs have always been innovating, it just happened to be in ways that some people didn't care for.

    So as a result they completely chose to ignore those changes. (And they are also very willing to ignore that many actually did like them, and are playing those games)

    The current MMO population is very fragmented atm IMO. Which is a good thing. And it also means there will be plenty of diverse MMOs to tend to those various niches (some greater than others).

    My SWTOR referral link for those wanting to give the game a try. (Newbies get a welcome package while returning players get a few account upgrades to help with their preferred status.)

    Feel free to send me a message if you want a guest pass to try Black Desert Online as well!

  • GetGowensGetGowens Member UncommonPosts: 17
    @kemono55 I really hope that what you are saying isn't true. I personally love themepark mainstream MMOs and I really hope a new one hits us in the coming years.
  • MalaboogaMalabooga aadadaMember UncommonPosts: 2,977
    edited November 2015
    Its been going down since 2010. Finally it got from peoples arse to their head :)

    And i had been called many a name for pointing it out.

    Ah well.
    Post edited by Malabooga on
  • waynejr2waynejr2 West Toluca Lake, CAMember EpicPosts: 7,441
    kemono55 said:
    Surly it is not only me thinking that.

    At least in the west, upcoming titles are only from "smaller" developers,
    and targets a more niche crowd.
    It's either that, or rehashed games from Korea/China.

    I feel single player games are on the rise and trending, once again.

    I think this is a good thing, perhaps we will see more diversity in mmos again,
    and less "Top 10 anticipated mmos of XXXX" videos on youtube now.

    So?  Why worry?
    http://www.youhaventlived.com/qblog/2010/QBlog190810A.html  

    Epic Music:   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1

    https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1

    Kyleran:  "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."

    John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."

    FreddyNoNose:  "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."

    LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"




  • MeleconMelecon Member UncommonPosts: 55
    kemono55 said:
    We saw the rise (and fall) of big budget titles, such as,
    Warhammer online, Age of Conan, Guild wars 1/2, Tabula Rasa, 
    Neverwinter, DC Universe, City of Heroes, The Eldar Scrolls Online,
    Rift, Defiance, Star Trek Online, Star Wars the Old Republic, 
    Lord of the rings online, Dungeons and Dragons Online,
    Wildstar, Global Agenda, and more..
    How are you measuring the Rise and the Fall?

    Yes there are titles on this list that have closed their doors and not around anymore. There are others that are still operating just fine at this moment. If you really want to do a case study on Mainstream MMO's the real and only rise and fall story you need to use is the one game you didn't mention in your list; and that would be World of Warcraft. It is the only one that came out with no real expectations blew up to massive proportions and is now settling down to the rest of the genre.

    With that I used the example of subscriber base, which is not the only factor in something being successful or not. which just goes back to my first statement what are you measuring this list on, and I sure hope it is not exceptions on how well the game will do.... or if you liked them or not as that would be nonobjective. If it is nonobjective it is not worth mine or anyone else time.
  • kemono55kemono55 Member UncommonPosts: 124
    edited November 2015
    waynejr2 said:
    So?  Why worry?

    You think I'm stating the obvious? 
    Yes, maybe I am...

    I don't worry per say, but I think we might need to brace ourselves with more patience.

    A lot of these indie project, while sounding great on paper,
    don't have the same budget as projects we have been used to so far.
    And some of them will not be able to reach above our quality bar, 
    as it is, for the most part, unexplored territory for many of them.

    As for diversity,
    I think we all can agree that there has been many variants of the same game.
    Where we just go through the motions we have been so accustomed to.
    Running from quest hub to quest hub, killing 10 wolves,
    skipping cutscene, getting max level, complaining about endgame
    and moving on to the next game that's hyped up.


    edit: Also @GetGowens , do not fear, South Korea will come to your rescue.
    Extra plus, if you can set up a VPN and have good ping to russian private servers.
    Post edited by kemono55 on
  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAMember RarePosts: 26,735
    kemono55 said:


    I don't worry per say, but I think we might need to brace ourselves with more patience.


    Why do we have to be patient? It is not like there are a lot of good games (or good online games) to play.

    The world does not have to evolve around MMOs. If there are nice ones, i will give it a few min of my time. Otherwise, there are other stuff to do (such as posting here, or watch the Flash, or play Crimes & Punishment .. the list goes on and on).
  • Righteous_RockRighteous_Rock Youngstown, OHMember UncommonPosts: 1,176
    Somebody said GW2 had an expansion? What exactly is a GW2? Please 
  • kemono55kemono55 Member UncommonPosts: 124
    Melecon said:
    How are you measuring the Rise and the Fall?

    Yes there are titles on this list that have closed their doors and not around anymore. There are others that are still operating just fine at this moment. 

    Are there any you, or people in general, would like to put down a long term investment on?
    For a time, people as well as developers and publishers,
    have expected a "something" to take the front seat from World of Warcraft.
    I think it's safe to say that no one is expecting this anymore, 
    and now it seems like publishers have also given up on this goldrush quest in mmorpg.

    Ten or twenty years from now, how is people going to look back at these games,
    or that time when everyone was playing an mmorpg?


    nariusseldon said:
    Why do we have to be patient? It is not like there are a lot of good games (or good online games) to play.
    The world does not have to evolve around MMOs. If there are nice ones, i will give it a few min of my time. Otherwise, there are other stuff to do (such as posting here, or watch the Flash, or play Crimes & Punishment .. the list goes on and on).

    I think you know the answer to this, you might have a choice right now,
    but this choice will get slimmer and slimmer as time goes on
    and no AAA mmorpg is in development.

    As for the world not evolving around MMOs.. well..
    would you like to discuss "America's Next Top Model" here instead?
  • splattrsplattr saint louis, MOMember UncommonPosts: 61
    Melecon said:
    kemono55 said:
    We saw the rise (and fall) of big budget titles, such as,
    Warhammer online, Age of Conan, Guild wars 1/2, Tabula Rasa, 
    Neverwinter, DC Universe, City of Heroes, The Eldar Scrolls Online,
    Rift, Defiance, Star Trek Online, Star Wars the Old Republic, 
    Lord of the rings online, Dungeons and Dragons Online,
    Wildstar, Global Agenda, and more..
    How are you measuring the Rise and the Fall?

    Yes there are titles on this list that have closed their doors and not around anymore. There are others that are still operating just fine at this moment. If you really want to do a case study on Mainstream MMO's the real and only rise and fall story you need to use is the one game you didn't mention in your list; and that would be World of Warcraft. It is the only one that came out with no real expectations blew up to massive proportions and is now settling down to the rest of the genre.

    With that I used the example of subscriber base, which is not the only factor in something being successful or not. which just goes back to my first statement what are you measuring this list on, and I sure hope it is not exceptions on how well the game will do.... or if you liked them or not as that would be nonobjective. If it is nonobjective it is not worth mine or anyone else time.
    I have to agree with you here. I think the biggest problem in the MMOverse is that WoW hit it so big. It wasn't the first of its kind, or the greatest game of all time, but everything just fell into place for it. It was successful due to timing, as gamers were just starting to flood the internet. It had a fantastic marketing machine. It was an easy choice for many single player gamers as the IP was familiar to many. 

    Like just about anything that has that "perfect storm" success, the industry jumped on the bandwagon and tried to duplicate it. If a new MMO wasn't as successful (aka profitable) as WoW, then it was a failure. Many of the games listed above did just fine, and as you said, many are still chugging along making a decent profit. Yet people consider them failures because only tens of thousands still play, not millions. 
  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAMember RarePosts: 26,735
    kemono55 said:



    nariusseldon said:
    Why do we have to be patient? It is not like there are a lot of good games (or good online games) to play.
    The world does not have to evolve around MMOs. If there are nice ones, i will give it a few min of my time. Otherwise, there are other stuff to do (such as posting here, or watch the Flash, or play Crimes & Punishment .. the list goes on and on).

    I think you know the answer to this, you might have a choice right now,
    but this choice will get slimmer and slimmer as time goes on
    and no AAA mmorpg is in development.

    As for the world not evolving around MMOs.. well..
    would you like to discuss "America's Next Top Model" here instead?
    Who says i only play MMOs? If there are few MMOs to choose from, i play other games.

    No .. but the operator here already said they are expanding coverage to single player RPGs ... i don't see a reason why we cannot talk about other gaming.

    Plus, i *am* talking about MMOs. No one says i have to be obsessed with MMOs to talk abou them. Can't I talk about them if I find them mildly interesting?
Sign In or Register to comment.