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Player Looting is a Deal Breaker for Me

ShadanwolfShadanwolf Member UncommonPosts: 2,392
The game looks fantastic. I love deep challenging crafting. I simply cannot accept being ganked and having my hard work stolen from me. I wish I could consider the game but I simply refuse to subject myself to gank squads. I have played DAOC for over 10 years. My wife still plays.I'm addicted to realm vs realm warfare. Just not gankers taking my hard work away from me and wasting the days I spent making great items.
I hope this feature is reconsidered.
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Comments

  • wyldmagikwyldmagik Member UncommonPosts: 516
    The game is obviously not for you then right?
    You like the idea of a game but not how it is set up so you want it to be totally different on the simple basis of you not wanting to play it with its rule set so it must be changed for YOU! o_O

    I never understand these posts, and they do nothing but twist devs when this shit is posted on mass causing the game to die later on and mainly due to forum whining.
  • ShadanwolfShadanwolf Member UncommonPosts: 2,392
    So we should not express opinions ? Is that what you are struggling to say ?

  • d_20d_20 Member RarePosts: 1,878
    These games just never succeed. Unless, the devs are happy with 5-10k players total.


  • waynejr2waynejr2 Member EpicPosts: 7,769
    So we should not express opinions ? Is that what you are struggling to say ?


    what do you hope to gain from this?
    http://www.youhaventlived.com/qblog/2010/QBlog190810A.html  

    Epic Music:   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1

    https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1

    Kyleran:  "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."

    John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."

    FreddyNoNose:  "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."

    LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"




  • BraindomeBraindome Member UncommonPosts: 959
    edited November 2015
    waynejr2 said:
    So we should not express opinions ? Is that what you are struggling to say ?


    what do you hope to gain from this?
    Since he referenced DAOC and realm vs. realm maybe he was hoping for a little bit more, but you're right he should just give up hope on the game altogether...
  • advokat666advokat666 Member UncommonPosts: 93
    wyldmagik said:
    The game is obviously not for you then right?
    You like the idea of a game but not how it is set up so you want it to be totally different on the simple basis of you not wanting to play it with its rule set so it must be changed for YOU! o_O

    I never understand these posts, and they do nothing but twist devs when this shit is posted on mass causing the game to die later on and mainly due to forum whining.
    Oh and because  YOU disagree with his thoughts he is not allowed to post or what ? OMFG common sense please..............
  • MaquiameMaquiame Member UncommonPosts: 1,073
    Camelot Unchained would be more up your alley perhaps, its basically DaoC 2

    image

    Any mmo worth its salt should be like a good prostitute when it comes to its game world- One hell of a faker, and a damn good shaker!

  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 18,719
    Maquiame said:
    Camelot Unchained would be more up your alley perhaps, its basically DaoC 2
    It's definitely one I'm keeping an eye on.

    There's no denying the added realism of full-loot but I'm not sure the MMO masses can handle it without turning it into a cesspool. From everything I've seen in every online game I play, if it can be used to annoy others, it will be.
    "Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”

    ― Umberto Eco

    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED

  • waynejr2waynejr2 Member EpicPosts: 7,769
    Torval said:
    waynejr2 said:
    So we should not express opinions ? Is that what you are struggling to say ?
    what do you hope to gain from this?
    That maybe a developer with similar interests would see his opinion and make a game or server ruleset that wasn't a gankfest?

    you would think after all these posts over all these years they would get that message.  Perhaps forum posting isn't the best way to do it.  Or perhaps devs should make the game they want to.  Or perhaps devs have looked at it and rejected it....
    http://www.youhaventlived.com/qblog/2010/QBlog190810A.html  

    Epic Music:   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1

    https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1

    Kyleran:  "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."

    John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."

    FreddyNoNose:  "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."

    LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"




  • waynejr2waynejr2 Member EpicPosts: 7,769
    wyldmagik said:
    The game is obviously not for you then right?
    You like the idea of a game but not how it is set up so you want it to be totally different on the simple basis of you not wanting to play it with its rule set so it must be changed for YOU! o_O

    I never understand these posts, and they do nothing but twist devs when this shit is posted on mass causing the game to die later on and mainly due to forum whining.
    Oh and because  YOU disagree with his thoughts he is not allowed to post or what ? OMFG common sense please..............

    Do what purpose?  There should be a purpose shouldn't there?  Does he just need to vent?  If so, why not vent in private?
    http://www.youhaventlived.com/qblog/2010/QBlog190810A.html  

    Epic Music:   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1

    https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1

    Kyleran:  "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."

    John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."

    FreddyNoNose:  "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."

    LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"




  • DullahanDullahan Member EpicPosts: 4,536
    The game looks fantastic. I love deep challenging crafting. I simply cannot accept being ganked and having my hard work stolen from me. I wish I could consider the game but I simply refuse to subject myself to gank squads. I have played DAOC for over 10 years. My wife still plays.I'm addicted to realm vs realm warfare. Just not gankers taking my hard work away from me and wasting the days I spent making great items.
    I hope this feature is reconsidered.
    I'm looking forward to at least trying Gloria Victis, but I don't expect it to do much better than the games like it that came before.

    Not saying you shouldn't post, but the best thing people can do is not give them your money. Eventually, they will learn that people are more likely to play this type of game when you give them something fun to do besides ganking. That said, I don't really mind it, but I know I'm one of a small minority and honestly don't have much long term hope for titles such as GV.


  • NetspookNetspook Member UncommonPosts: 1,583
    waynejr2 said:
    wyldmagik said:
    The game is obviously not for you then right?
    You like the idea of a game but not how it is set up so you want it to be totally different on the simple basis of you not wanting to play it with its rule set so it must be changed for YOU! o_O

    I never understand these posts, and they do nothing but twist devs when this shit is posted on mass causing the game to die later on and mainly due to forum whining.
    Oh and because  YOU disagree with his thoughts he is not allowed to post or what ? OMFG common sense please..............

    Do what purpose?  There should be a purpose shouldn't there?  Does he just need to vent?  If so, why not vent in private?

    If you don't like these discussions, feel free to avoid threads like this one. You're trolling and you know it.
  • kaiser3282kaiser3282 Member UncommonPosts: 2,759
    One thing to keep in mind, which people who aren't used to these types of games fail to grasp so often, with player looting games is that gear is expendable. You aren't going to "spend days making great items" in most cases. You may invest quite a bit of time getting your crafting skills high enough to make those great items, but for the most part once you reach that point making them takes pretty minimal effort. After a couple months the game tends to become saturated with at least "good" if not "great" gear to the point where your average player has dozens, sometimes hundreds of backup sets.

    Hell in games like Darkfall (and will also likely be the case in GV after launch) it was common practice before going out into the world, as well as a mandatory thing to do before sieges for most clans, to prepare AT LEAST 10-20 gear bags that you can instantly throw on you and get back into the fight without having to restock. We're talking multiple weapons, full sets of armor, potions, food, spell reagents, etc. Dont have enough? You likely have a guy in your clan (I was usually that guy) who has a couple hundred spare weapons and armor sets they can pass around or at least sell you dirt cheap. Hell I had my inventory organized into various categories of "ready bags" with dozens on hand for multiple situations. PvE / grinding, villages fights, skirmish / random PvP hunting, city & hamlet raids, sieges, as well as different bags for different builds depending on what i felt like playing / was needed for that day or in case others needed some.

    Gear and crafting in these games is designed with these 2 things in mind, both revolving around the fact that you WILL lose your gear::

    1) Gear wears down and eventually breaks or becomes near worthless (with things like lowered max durability causing it to only last a very short time before needing repair, leaving you better off just replacing it) 

    2) PvP and looting are going to happen

    We're not talking about gear that takes huge investment. If you actually feel it is taking THAT big of a toll on you, then either you're using gear that you shouldn't be because you can't afford to keep a steady supply of it handy and / or you need to stop sucking. It sounds harsh, but that's the reality of it. If you're rolling around in high end gear and are still losing fights that often, then chances are you need to focus a bit more on improving your skills as a player. If you can't manage that much, then at least have the sense to seek out skilled players & guilds to join up with who can help keep you alive.

    Bottom line though is if you can't hold your own in a fight without crutching on gear, better be prepared to lose it quickly to someone who doesn't need any crutches. Skill will win over the typically very minor advantage given to someone in slightly better gear.

    TLDR: Get over your misconceptions about how important gear is. These aren't gear based games, they're skill based filled with expendable gear that only offers minor advantages. You will lose it one way or another. Rule #1 in these types of games: Don't go out in stuff you can't afford to lose.
  • seafirexseafirex Member UncommonPosts: 419
    I think most of these games are not build with that intention in mind. It is just that some players see the opportunity right away to gank in those types of games and use it. I do understand your view on it OP and i support it totally. 

    Some games are very fun but that kind of fun is not for me, so i stay away from them. At least they did find there audience and i hope they stay up for a long time to please the players that do like that type of games.
  • SpottyGekkoSpottyGekko Member EpicPosts: 6,916
    Iselin said:
    Maquiame said:
    Camelot Unchained would be more up your alley perhaps, its basically DaoC 2
    It's definitely one I'm keeping an eye on.

    There's no denying the added realism of full-loot but I'm not sure the MMO masses can handle it without turning it into a cesspool. From everything I've seen in every online game I play, if it can be used to annoy others, it will be.


    Agreed.

    In 15 years of online gaming, it has happened in every game I played. It is a rule of the MMO universe: "If it can be exploited to annoy others, it will be".
  • kaiser3282kaiser3282 Member UncommonPosts: 2,759
    Iselin said:
    Maquiame said:
    Camelot Unchained would be more up your alley perhaps, its basically DaoC 2
    It's definitely one I'm keeping an eye on.

    There's no denying the added realism of full-loot but I'm not sure the MMO masses can handle it without turning it into a cesspool. From everything I've seen in every online game I play, if it can be used to annoy others, it will be.


    Agreed.

    In 15 years of online gaming, it has happened in every game I played. It is a rule of the MMO universe: "If it can be exploited to annoy others, it will be".
    Reminds of stuff like "blue blockers" in Darkfall lol. For those who don't know what I mean:

    There were guard towers which would kill anyone who got flagged as a criminal / hostile within the limits of most cities. You would get flagged as a criminal for attacking or killing a blue (non-criminal) player, however if your clan was at war with another clan they were flagged as red to you ad you could attack them without being flagged as a criminal.

    So let's say you go into town and see a few members of an enemy clan hanging around. Too many for you to take on by yourself. Solution? Have a friend who is not in your clan, or someone on an alt that is not in the clan, come meet you. Run in and start attacking the enemy players, then when they try to fight back have your friend jump in the middle of it so that their attacks hit him. Instant criminal flagging and getting fried by guard towers. Free loot for you that you can just toss in the bank a few feet away before they can respawn and gear back up.
  • NightfyreNightfyre Member UncommonPosts: 205
    Corpse looting is important for the crafting economy.  Other then wear and tear of the equipment.

    There are people who love these kind of games.  My first experience with gear looting was from Meridian 59.  Wasn't bad dying, frustrating yes.. but getting gear wasn't hard to do.  It's just carry only what you need for that adventure, rest in the bank.  Casters I think had problems with carrying regents, and under estimating the amount they'll need.

    It's a learning process, and skill helps.  So if you played games like Unreal Tournament and a Melee style game (which i can't think of any off hand, right now), you'll have some knowledge of how to handle  aspects of the game. 

    The problem I think some see, is they can't go alone anymore.  That they feel they'll need someone to help protect them.  That's true, these games you should be with others and not think very much of soloing.  If you can't, yeah it's not a game for you.  WoW and a few other games have ruined this part of the games, where social interaction is important.


  • stonyleinstonylein Member UncommonPosts: 88
    i don't understand why all the people who love the casual game systems of world of warcraft so much don't stick to it or one of its many clones, instead they try to dull down games that have more exiting risk/reward game systems.
  • kaiser3282kaiser3282 Member UncommonPosts: 2,759
    stonylein said:
    i don't understand why all the people who love the casual game systems of world of warcraft so much don't stick to it or one of its many clones, instead they try to dull down games that have more exiting risk/reward game systems.
    Same reason why you will see silly things like PvE only players will flood forums with crying about open PvP existing in a game, or not having a PvE only server. Nobody else is allowed to have a game suited for another group of people. EVERY game has to cater to their personal desires. Nevermind that other people besides them exist.
  • filmoretfilmoret Member EpicPosts: 4,906
    If the game is built properly then full looting isn't bad.  Hardly ever is it built to handle full looting properly and looking at your OP I see you have never seen a game that has handled it properly either.
    Are you onto something or just on something?
  • WizardryWizardry Member LegendaryPosts: 19,332
    Deep crafting cannot and will not save pvp.I can't stand pvp in any rpg because it is NEVER done properly,usually nothing more than flag players for pvp or flag their loot,in other words a really shallow effort for introducing pvp.
    Also adding in some POI to capture or control also does not change the actual pvp and is again not good enough,i seriously think these system designers just don't get it or have never played a good pvp design before.

    Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.

  • ber_linber_lin Member UncommonPosts: 37
    edited November 2015
    Gloria Victis is designed with a partial loot system. The killing player can only loot a finite amount of items before the looting window is closed. This, coupled with the fact that gear is not paramount, and will not be too difficult to get gives players a sense of loss from a death when dying to another player, but no meaningless loss to PVE, this adds a significant increase in the thrill of PVP over PVE due to this distinction. Don't get it wrong though, PVE is no joke either, a level 50+ mob can kill a player in just a few hits, even a high level player.

    PVP in Gloria Victis will not center around killing for gear or fun, but for control. Control over resources and defensive points. You only get flagged for hurting players within your own faction, and you are rewarded for killing players in opposing factions. Which really incentivizes not hurting friendlies, and gives players a positive outlet for their PVP inclinations. 

    The partial loot system also is a modern way of simulating the classic RPG loot dropping system of losing a random piece of armor to a death, so that players fear death that much more. Allowing players to be rewarded for their skill on the battlefield, while also not crippling the player who was defeated. 

    The design for PVP in Gloria Victis gives players skill based fighting mechanics, with real time attacks and blocking, with no lock on targeting, and meaningful reasons to engage in said PVP(I.e. Exp, Territory, RP, Fun.)

    -Revir

  • RevofireRevofire Member UncommonPosts: 269
    The game looks fantastic. I love deep challenging crafting. I simply cannot accept being ganked and having my hard work stolen from me. I wish I could consider the game but I simply refuse to subject myself to gank squads. I have played DAOC for over 10 years. My wife still plays.I'm addicted to realm vs realm warfare. Just not gankers taking my hard work away from me and wasting the days I spent making great items.
    I hope this feature is reconsidered.

    So you're too lazy to take on a challenge? Prefer World of Warcraft? Well then, this game isn't for you. So why are you here with your very bad opinion? You're entitled to your opinion. I am here to let you know it's a bad one.
    Change your thoughts and you change your world. - Norman Vincent Peale


  • goboygogoboygo Member RarePosts: 2,141

    It its full loot I would agree, it's killed just pretty much every modern game that's tried it.  A form of partial loot probably has a chance.

  • filmoretfilmoret Member EpicPosts: 4,906
    The game looks fantastic. I love deep challenging crafting. I simply cannot accept being ganked and having my hard work stolen from me. I wish I could consider the game but I simply refuse to subject myself to gank squads. I have played DAOC for over 10 years. My wife still plays.I'm addicted to realm vs realm warfare. Just not gankers taking my hard work away from me and wasting the days I spent making great items.
    I hope this feature is reconsidered.

    Full loot pvp done correctly isn't bad at all.  I have seen it done correctly and know how to do it correctly.  It is possible this game will be able to do this.  Give it a try or wait for reviews later to see how it works.  Eve works and it is full loot because the system was built correctly to handle such things.
    Are you onto something or just on something?
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