Ummm if it's an AH on a single server and there are multiple servers, then there wouldn't be as many people posting the same item as would be found on a game where there is only one mega server and one auction house. Big difference --- because it's not the entire game population using one auction house.
You only rephrased what you said already but didn't answer my question tho... It swings both ways, you have more people listing same item but also more people buying, so again:
Ummm if it's an AH on a single server and there are multiple servers, then there wouldn't be as many people posting the same item as would be found on a game where there is only one mega server and one auction house. Big difference --- because it's not the entire game population using one auction house.
You only rephrased what you said already but didn't answer my question tho... It swings both ways, you have more people listing same item but also more people buying, so again:
The studio previously explained why it decided to omit an auction house from the MMO: "You don't necessarily want to do a global auction house for a game with one giant server because that generally leads to all the best gear being available at very, very cheap prices. A lot of times that can trivialize the game. You cannot have a healthy economy when there are no restrictions on getting the best stuff in the game."
It's highly unlikely you will encounter that scenario in a typical MMO, where there are multiple servers, each with their own auction house.
Why is a centralized AH so important? It's literally a little teeny-tiny part of the game. I could understand if the AH system was as screwed up as FFXIV's initial retainer system, but there are auction houses in ESO. You have to join a trade guild(s). It's really not that big of a deal, IMO.
People can't be bothered, it's tedious. They want easy gold. Probably same reasons I like the LFG tool.
In most games with a global AH I just found it really easy to accumulate wealth. I like how this is different.
I, and many who play actually don't mind it. Will an global AH included in the future? I doubt it, not enough of an uproar by the fans to change it. It's rarely ever mentioned in game or the official forums.
Setzer said: It's highly unlikely you will encounter that scenario in a typical MMO, where there are multiple servers, each with their own auction house.
I am aware of the official statement regarding AH and as I explained in the thread, few posts above yours, it is very much absurd and false.
AH has nothing to do with economy, it is just a platform to exchange goods. What matters is how the goods gets onto a market - that is what makes the economy, "broken" or "healthy".
The studio previously explained why it decided to omit an auction house from the MMO: "You don't necessarily want to do a global auction house for a game with one giant server because that generally leads to all the best gear being available at very, very cheap prices. A lot of times that can trivialize the game. You cannot have a healthy economy when there are no restrictions on getting the best stuff in the game."
They could set the restrictions on the availability of "best gear" in a centralized AH by adjusting loot tables/frequency, resource spawns, recipe spawns,..etc. Not sure why they feel the only way to institute restriction is by limiting sell item visibility. Sure it works as a restriction, but not an ideal one IMHO.
They could set the restrictions on the availability of "best gear" in a centralized AH by adjusting loot tables/frequency, resource spawns, recipe spawns,..etc. Not sure why they feel the only way to institute restriction is by limiting sell item visibility. Sure it works as a restriction, but not an ideal one IMHO.
It is not a restriction, it is an annoyance.
Just like in the "old days", when you were looking for an item, you had to visit each of dozens stalls that could be placed while you were online only. That is why auction house was created, to improve gaming experience and remove unenjoyable mechanics.
This argument about economy "health" is just plain stupid...
They could set the restrictions on the availability of "best gear" in a centralized AH by adjusting loot tables/frequency, resource spawns, recipe spawns,..etc. Not sure why they feel the only way to institute restriction is by limiting sell item visibility. Sure it works as a restriction, but not an ideal one IMHO.
It is not a restriction, it is an annoyance.
Just like in the "old days", when you were looking for an item, you had to visit each of dozens stalls that could be placed while you were online only. That is why auction house was created, to improve gaming experience and remove unenjoyable mechanics.
This argument about economy "health" is just plain stupid...
It's not stupid argument because it works. The availability of items is restricted by the time and effort it would take for the seller and buyer to make the transaction.
I think it's a really stupid restriction, people should not be limited by making trading so annoying and inconvenient that they won't bother to do it, but it's a restriction that works well enough.
It's not stupid argument because it works. The availability of items is restricted by the time and effort it would take for the seller and buyer to make the transaction.
I think it's a really stupid restriction, but it's a restriction that works well enough.
What you are describing is a scale, not actually a relative difference.
Like I pointed out above - less sellers, less buyers. It is just the scale, the system will work the same.
It's not stupid argument because it works. The availability of items is restricted by the time and effort it would take for the seller and buyer to make the transaction.
I think it's a really stupid restriction, but it's a restriction that works well enough.
What you are describing is a scale, not actually a relative difference.
Like I pointed out above - less sellers, less buyers. It is just the scale, the system will work the same.
And before you rodingo pointed out that they could restrict the availability "by adjusting loot tables/frequency, resource spawns, recipe spawns,..etc"
That's just scale too. The system will work the same.
What kind of restrictions are you talking about? A restriction that would prevent all trading of certain items?
Good to know I'm not the only one with this issue. I have been in trading guilds before. Back when I played you could join max 5 guilds and each guild could hold a max of 500 members.
But there are many problems with this system.
The most obvious one is that you don't have access to all items that are being traded.
There is also the annoying part having to switch between guilds to look for the same item.
Then since guilds have a limited amount of players, all guilds are pressured to keep active players or die out. This is a F2P game, it doesn't have a sub which kinda forces you to play. So what happens when you decide to take the inevitable break? You get kicked and need to search for 5 guilds again. And since 500 players per guild is almost nothing on trading scale, most guilds will try to keep a maximum amount of active players at all times. So good luck finding a well established trading guild with free spots.
I have no idea what they were thinking when they implemented this system. Nor why are they so stubborn about it.
This was my issue as well. Back when I played last year, I was in one main guild and 4 trading guilds. About 2 months after launch there was about half as many active players in those guilds. When I left the game in August of last year 2 of those guilds had completely died out and the other 2 had fewer than 10 active members. The sad thing about it was the person who created these guilds left the game and there was no way to remove inactive members. It's just not a very good system and it's a HUGE reason why I'm no longer playing the game today.
The trading in this game is competitive. Its not easy street and not everyone is capable of doing it. Which is why the guilds died and fell apart. An 8 year old is not capable of doing it correctly. It takes skilled smart thinking players to achieve it. Yes I agree it is inconvienant. But is it better or worse then public easy peasy auction houses like GW2? I cant say one is better then the other because they are designed to do different jobs. One is to promote guild unity and strong leadership. The other is for easy street and helps everyone get whatever they want at very low prices.
Trade guilds in ESO do complete opposite of "guild unity and strong leadership". And its far far away from competitive especially if you live in your small enclosed bubble. These people complain about GW2 because GW2 IS super competitive (duh theres lot of competition opposed to casualness of ESO) and you really have to be top notch to compete, and it also bears risk of losing large amounts of gold if you screw up. Also you can earn ridiculous amounts if you actually do good.
If that was their goal ("promote guild unity and strong leadership" however absurd that sounds, as it was obvious it does complete opposite the moment they laid out what they will do) whoever thought of it should be fired (if they werent laid off already, and probably were)
Isn't is obvious that if you don't have guild unity and strong leadership then it fails at holding a guild store? I don't see how that even demands an explanation but I will do it anyways. If the guild doesn't produce enough money they cannot buy the store to sell their items. The best trade guilds have stiff requirements for their traders and the leadership is what produces these requirements. Each guild has different requirements which proves that leadership did a good job of making a successful trade guild. Conclusion each trade guild must be united and have strong leadership or they will not own a guild store. You get to know each of the 500 members personally and work together on who sells what and how so you aren't stepping on each other. See its a lot more complicated then just throw up items for sale and hope the wind carries it to profit.
ROFL
usual trading guild reqs:
2 weeks incactive -> kick make minimum number of trades so they get their share or kick pay weekly "membership fee" or kick
yeah. It all spells "guild unity and strong leadership"
you dont get to know anyone, let alone "all 500 members personally" because its revolving door.
Next time actually play the game and observe what happens instead living in your little bubble. Theory is all nice and dandy, practice is something completely different.
And before you rodingo pointed out that they could restrict the availability "by adjusting loot tables/frequency, resource spawns, recipe spawns,..etc"
That's just scale too. The system will work the same.
What kind of restrictions are you talking about? A restriction that would prevent all trading of certain items?
Smaller scale would imply that supply and demand are both equally cut down but that isn't the case of Rodingo's suggestion where only supply would be reduced, demand remains the same - there willl be still 100 people wanting the item but only 2 items instead of 20 are available.
Limited supply would not make much of a difference tho, without item decay, the market would be flooded with items anyway, it would just take longer.
I wasn't talking about any restrictions so I am not sure what you are asking there...
I might try the game again if they come up with a different system.
A guild being degraded to a public storefront makes me shudder, it was the horror-scenario for pretty much every guild I've ever been in, and this game embraces that. Away with camaraderie and fun together! Lets throw that out the window so people can use the guild to make money.
Other than that, the guild system in ESO is still very much similar to an AH. So the arguments of those against an auction house are fairly moot. ESO in practice just has a collection of auctions houses that are made artificially hard to browse. Which is ridiculous.
I'd have at least respected their system if they wanted to be different for immersion etc. Like using travelling Khajiit caravans or trade posts, which you actually see in the games. Or some system like that. This doesn't even have any basis in the lore.
Feel free to use my referral link for SW:TOR if you want to test out the game. You'll get some special unlocks!
It's not stupid argument because it works. The availability of items is restricted by the time and effort it would take for the seller and buyer to make the transaction.
I think it's a really stupid restriction, but it's a restriction that works well enough.
What you are describing is a scale, not actually a relative difference.
Like I pointed out above - less sellers, less buyers. It is just the scale, the system will work the same.
@malabooga sorry I paid attention to detail and you didn't. I have 3 max level characters in this game and know what I'm talking about.
@Gdemami ; Really you have no clue that making all items available immediately doesn't have an effect on the trading system? You can barely make money selling resources. Imagine if 5k people were all trying to sell it. You would never make money off it cuz it would only be 1 copper above npc prices. Lets bring this more to your understanding. That sword that normaly sells for 50 gold. Its hard to find and once you find it you are happy to see it for 50 gold. Well with a centralized auction house there would be 20 people trying to sell that sword and guess what each one undercuts the other driving the prices down. Meaning you will get that sword for 20-30 gold instead.
Good to know I'm not the only one with this issue. I have been in trading guilds before. Back when I played you could join max 5 guilds and each guild could hold a max of 500 members.
But there are many problems with this system.
The most obvious one is that you don't have access to all items that are being traded.
There is also the annoying part having to switch between guilds to look for the same item.
Then since guilds have a limited amount of players, all guilds are pressured to keep active players or die out. This is a F2P game, it doesn't have a sub which kinda forces you to play. So what happens when you decide to take the inevitable break? You get kicked and need to search for 5 guilds again. And since 500 players per guild is almost nothing on trading scale, most guilds will try to keep a maximum amount of active players at all times. So good luck finding a well established trading guild with free spots.
I have no idea what they were thinking when they implemented this system. Nor why are they so stubborn about it.
This was my issue as well. Back when I played last year, I was in one main guild and 4 trading guilds. About 2 months after launch there was about half as many active players in those guilds. When I left the game in August of last year 2 of those guilds had completely died out and the other 2 had fewer than 10 active members. The sad thing about it was the person who created these guilds left the game and there was no way to remove inactive members. It's just not a very good system and it's a HUGE reason why I'm no longer playing the game today.
The trading in this game is competitive. Its not easy street and not everyone is capable of doing it. Which is why the guilds died and fell apart. An 8 year old is not capable of doing it correctly. It takes skilled smart thinking players to achieve it. Yes I agree it is inconvienant. But is it better or worse then public easy peasy auction houses like GW2? I cant say one is better then the other because they are designed to do different jobs. One is to promote guild unity and strong leadership. The other is for easy street and helps everyone get whatever they want at very low prices.
Trade guilds in ESO do complete opposite of "guild unity and strong leadership". And its far far away from competitive especially if you live in your small enclosed bubble. These people complain about GW2 because GW2 IS super competitive (duh theres lot of competition opposed to casualness of ESO) and you really have to be top notch to compete, and it also bears risk of losing large amounts of gold if you screw up. Also you can earn ridiculous amounts if you actually do good.
If that was their goal ("promote guild unity and strong leadership" however absurd that sounds, as it was obvious it does complete opposite the moment they laid out what they will do) whoever thought of it should be fired (if they werent laid off already, and probably were)
Isn't is obvious that if you don't have guild unity and strong leadership then it fails at holding a guild store? I don't see how that even demands an explanation but I will do it anyways. If the guild doesn't produce enough money they cannot buy the store to sell their items. The best trade guilds have stiff requirements for their traders and the leadership is what produces these requirements. Each guild has different requirements which proves that leadership did a good job of making a successful trade guild. Conclusion each trade guild must be united and have strong leadership or they will not own a guild store. You get to know each of the 500 members personally and work together on who sells what and how so you aren't stepping on each other. See its a lot more complicated then just throw up items for sale and hope the wind carries it to profit.
I believe you are talking about "Guild Traders" not stores. Any guild that has 50 or more members has a Guild Store to which all members can buy and sell to each other as the leader chooses to set it up for. Guild Traders on the other hand are the very expensive locations where you hire a Trader to sell to players outside your guild. Depending on the location and traffic they can be quite costly (upwards of 1 million gold or more). You get these traders for one week then have to bid on them again in a blind bidding process that is completely asinine.
Good to know I'm not the only one with this issue. I have been in trading guilds before. Back when I played you could join max 5 guilds and each guild could hold a max of 500 members.
But there are many problems with this system.
The most obvious one is that you don't have access to all items that are being traded.
There is also the annoying part having to switch between guilds to look for the same item.
Then since guilds have a limited amount of players, all guilds are pressured to keep active players or die out. This is a F2P game, it doesn't have a sub which kinda forces you to play. So what happens when you decide to take the inevitable break? You get kicked and need to search for 5 guilds again. And since 500 players per guild is almost nothing on trading scale, most guilds will try to keep a maximum amount of active players at all times. So good luck finding a well established trading guild with free spots.
I have no idea what they were thinking when they implemented this system. Nor why are they so stubborn about it.
This was my issue as well. Back when I played last year, I was in one main guild and 4 trading guilds. About 2 months after launch there was about half as many active players in those guilds. When I left the game in August of last year 2 of those guilds had completely died out and the other 2 had fewer than 10 active members. The sad thing about it was the person who created these guilds left the game and there was no way to remove inactive members. It's just not a very good system and it's a HUGE reason why I'm no longer playing the game today.
The trading in this game is competitive. Its not easy street and not everyone is capable of doing it. Which is why the guilds died and fell apart. An 8 year old is not capable of doing it correctly. It takes skilled smart thinking players to achieve it. Yes I agree it is inconvienant. But is it better or worse then public easy peasy auction houses like GW2? I cant say one is better then the other because they are designed to do different jobs. One is to promote guild unity and strong leadership. The other is for easy street and helps everyone get whatever they want at very low prices.
Trade guilds in ESO do complete opposite of "guild unity and strong leadership". And its far far away from competitive especially if you live in your small enclosed bubble. These people complain about GW2 because GW2 IS super competitive (duh theres lot of competition opposed to casualness of ESO) and you really have to be top notch to compete, and it also bears risk of losing large amounts of gold if you screw up. Also you can earn ridiculous amounts if you actually do good.
If that was their goal ("promote guild unity and strong leadership" however absurd that sounds, as it was obvious it does complete opposite the moment they laid out what they will do) whoever thought of it should be fired (if they werent laid off already, and probably were)
Isn't is obvious that if you don't have guild unity and strong leadership then it fails at holding a guild store? I don't see how that even demands an explanation but I will do it anyways. If the guild doesn't produce enough money they cannot buy the store to sell their items. The best trade guilds have stiff requirements for their traders and the leadership is what produces these requirements. Each guild has different requirements which proves that leadership did a good job of making a successful trade guild. Conclusion each trade guild must be united and have strong leadership or they will not own a guild store. You get to know each of the 500 members personally and work together on who sells what and how so you aren't stepping on each other. See its a lot more complicated then just throw up items for sale and hope the wind carries it to profit.
I believe you are talking about "Guild Traders" not stores. Any guild that has 50 or more members has a Guild Store to which all members can buy and sell to each other as the leader chooses to set it up for. Guild Traders on the other hand are the very expensive locations where you hire a Trader to sell to players outside your guild. Depending on the location and traffic they can be quite costly (upwards of 1 million gold or more). You get these traders for one week then have to bid on them again in a blind bidding process that is completely asinine.
Filmoret
"@malabooga sorry I paid attention to detail and you didn't. I have 3 max level characters in this game and know what I'm talking about."
@Gdemami ; Really you have no clue that making all items available immediately doesn't have an effect on the trading system? You can barely make money selling resources. Imagine if 5k people were all trying to sell it. You would never make money off it cuz it would only be 1 copper above npc prices. Lets bring this more to your understanding. That sword that normaly sells for 50 gold. Its hard to find and once you find it you are happy to see it for 50 gold. Well with a centralized auction house there would be 20 people trying to sell that sword and guess what each one undercuts the other driving the prices down. Meaning you will get that sword for 20-30 gold instead.
He doesn't get it. I'm done trying to explain it to him because its pointless.
when i played GW2 the marketplace or whatever it was called had everything listed at dirt cheap due to all the sales competition, if it is still that way i don't see how anyone can make money and i can see why ESO doesn't use that method.
I've been spoiled. It's nice having a global auction house and even nicer being able to access one from a drop down menu to sell your excess inventory from any location and at any time like some other games do.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
when i played GW2 the marketplace or whatever it was called had everything listed at dirt cheap due to all the sales competition, if it is still that way i don't see how anyone can make money and i can see why ESO doesn't use that method.
You werent able to compete.
There are many that do.
(general statement for those who think you cant make money on TP in GW2)
You can still do same thing in ESO, nothign was "prevented", except shopping for any item turns into endless going around stores even for most basic items.
So better get that shopping list prepared unless you want to go around all shops every time.
Auction houses change games - for the worse. In ESO there is a megaserver, something a lot of these comments completely ignore. This takes the usual problems of auction houses (trivializing loot) and amplifies them. If you're a wheeler-dealer you can make excellent money doing arbitrage - buying cheap in one guild, selling for more elsewhere. It's really just that people used to the equivalent of fantasy Amazon.com don't understand how badly it distorts game play.
More to the point, they've made it abundantly clear that they're not going to do this. It would trash a lot of existing mechanics and require a ton of retooling of game systems.
i remember when people bitched about wow introducing an AH to the genre, now people are spoiled and bitch if games don't have it. i also have no problem buying and selling the stuff i need in this game, it's not hard to adapt to the system they have in place, but that is just me.
filmoret said: @Gdemami ; Really you have no clue that making all items available immediately doesn't have an effect on the trading system? You can barely make money selling resources. Imagine if 5k people were all trying to sell it. You would never make money off it cuz it would only be 1 copper above npc prices. Lets bring this more to your understanding. That sword that normaly sells for 50 gold. Its hard to find and once you find it you are happy to see it for 50 gold. Well with a centralized auction house there would be 20 people trying to sell that sword and guess what each one undercuts the other driving the prices down. Meaning you will get that sword for 20-30 gold instead.
With centralized system, there will be 20 people more to sell the sword but also 20 people buying the sword, meaning, there is no difference and price will remain the same since supply and demand are both increased.
Comments
And how is it supposed to make any difference...?
In most games with a global AH I just found it really easy to accumulate wealth. I like how this is different.
I, and many who play actually don't mind it. Will an global AH included in the future? I doubt it, not enough of an uproar by the fans to change it. It's rarely ever mentioned in game or the official forums.
AH has nothing to do with economy, it is just a platform to exchange goods. What matters is how the goods gets onto a market - that is what makes the economy, "broken" or "healthy".
"If I offended you, you needed it" -Corey Taylor
It is not a restriction, it is an annoyance.
Just like in the "old days", when you were looking for an item, you had to visit each of dozens stalls that could be placed while you were online only. That is why auction house was created, to improve gaming experience and remove unenjoyable mechanics.
This argument about economy "health" is just plain stupid...
I think it's a really stupid restriction, people should not be limited by making trading so annoying and inconvenient that they won't bother to do it, but it's a restriction that works well enough.
Like I pointed out above - less sellers, less buyers. It is just the scale, the system will work the same.
That's just scale too. The system will work the same.
What kind of restrictions are you talking about? A restriction that would prevent all trading of certain items?
usual trading guild reqs:
2 weeks incactive -> kick
make minimum number of trades so they get their share or kick
pay weekly "membership fee" or kick
yeah. It all spells "guild unity and strong leadership"
you dont get to know anyone, let alone "all 500 members personally" because its revolving door.
Next time actually play the game and observe what happens instead living in your little bubble. Theory is all nice and dandy, practice is something completely different.
Limited supply would not make much of a difference tho, without item decay, the market would be flooded with items anyway, it would just take longer.
I wasn't talking about any restrictions so I am not sure what you are asking there...
A guild being degraded to a public storefront makes me shudder, it was the horror-scenario for pretty much every guild I've ever been in, and this game embraces that. Away with camaraderie and fun together! Lets throw that out the window so people can use the guild to make money.
Other than that, the guild system in ESO is still very much similar to an AH. So the arguments of those against an auction house are fairly moot. ESO in practice just has a collection of auctions houses that are made artificially hard to browse. Which is ridiculous.
I'd have at least respected their system if they wanted to be different for immersion etc. Like using travelling Khajiit caravans or trade posts, which you actually see in the games. Or some system like that. This doesn't even have any basis in the lore.
Feel free to use my referral link for SW:TOR if you want to test out the game. You'll get some special unlocks!
@malabooga sorry I paid attention to detail and you didn't. I have 3 max level characters in this game and know what I'm talking about.
@Gdemami ; Really you have no clue that making all items available immediately doesn't have an effect on the trading system? You can barely make money selling resources. Imagine if 5k people were all trying to sell it. You would never make money off it cuz it would only be 1 copper above npc prices. Lets bring this more to your understanding. That sword that normaly sells for 50 gold. Its hard to find and once you find it you are happy to see it for 50 gold. Well with a centralized auction house there would be 20 people trying to sell that sword and guess what each one undercuts the other driving the prices down. Meaning you will get that sword for 20-30 gold instead.
"@malabooga sorry I paid attention to detail and you didn't. I have 3 max level characters in this game and know what I'm talking about."
Sure you did, and sure you do.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
There are many that do.
(general statement for those who think you cant make money on TP in GW2)
You can still do same thing in ESO, nothign was "prevented", except shopping for any item turns into endless going around stores even for most basic items.
So better get that shopping list prepared unless you want to go around all shops every time.
More to the point, they've made it abundantly clear that they're not going to do this. It would trash a lot of existing mechanics and require a ton of retooling of game systems.
It is just a scale with no effect on economy.