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Have you formed substantial in-game relationships in FFXIV?

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  • BlazeyerBlazeyer Member UncommonPosts: 562
    I have about 150 people on my FFXIV friends list, I talk to 1 of them outside the game (on steam) on occasion. Most of those 150 were connections made when the game first re-launched, about 95% of them quit or only log in for new patches.

    FFXIV is a queue game. Once you're max level or trying to progress (pve/pvp) you can just sit in town and queue up. Most of the time you zone into your dungeon/pvp and everyone is silent. There usually is at most the "hello" at the start of the dungeon, but that's it. After the final boss is dead you'll see the "thanks for run guys!" which we all know is just a ploy to get a player commendation (don't lie, we all do it).

    Leveling and doing story quests are all - solo.

    You can level all crafts and gather classes to cap without the help from others - solo.

    The new airship fights can be done without even joining an fc - solo.

    The only time you need a set group is for the hardest dungeon set, which is currently alex 1 savage. But most groups can't complete the top set of fights within the first couple months (or they do and quickly realize THERE WILL BE NO WORTHWHILE ENDGAME CONTENT FOR ANOTHER 6 MONTHS!!) and end up breaking up.

    Seriously FFXIV's endgame is just terrible, but that's another story.

    When the game first relaunched we were told about this challenging 24 man raid known as crystal tower. Free companies were formed of high skilled players ready to tackle this. What we got was a laughably easy solo-queue able "raid" that you would have to (usually) do multiple times a week to get your drop. This didn't help.

    Now this is just me. I have seen a lot of people who have their cliques and really do just enjoy being on the game and doing anything. I have seen free companies hold auctions, contests, and many events (hell the old fc I co-ran did this stuff). It's important to remember that not everyone feels the way you feel and not everyone is looking for what you're looking for in a game.
  • XatshXatsh Member RarePosts: 451
    FFXIV was designed without the need for friends and a guild to progress.

    Speaking as someone who has played the game now since 1.0's launch. 2.0 has removed the need to form strong relationships with other people.

    Duty finder is a large part of this, you can simply que up to do anything outside endgame primal (instance boss fights) and hard mode raids (Which are also simply instance boss fights). Because of this people do not need to get to know people at all. This while highly convenient to players needs to be either removed or greatly minimized. (Aka give large rewards for making groups outside it).

    Duty finder/Dungeon finder is honestly a horrible thing for building communities.

    With the Raid (Top tier gear system) it is restricted to lowman (8 people) groups with sever penalties for helping others clear. (You lose all the drops and simple get the token at the end).

    For community.

    FFXIV is the worst guild focused game on the market plain and simple. At least if you are running a guild that is more then a social channel. The game does have tools to run a guild, but that is about it.  The developers even said they cannot add guild content because those without a guild would not be able to participate in interviews. This more then explains the issue of guilds, SE is designing the whole game without them in mind instead of encouraging them.

    There is no reason for one and on top of that the game punishes you for running things as a guild instead of a low man static group.


    SE has made FFXIV a game where bonds with other players simply does not matter, where guilds are litterly nothing but another chat channel with some minor buffs, they made it where your reputation does not matter 1 bit, and they made it everyone gets a cookie at the end no matter what they did.

    FFXIV's community is abysmal as a whole. IF you are looking for a guild, try to join a social guild because endgame guilds do not exist. Yes you have those clearing the hardest content but they are still nothing but a social with really good static groups in all cases the guilds are not doing anything as a whole.  When you hear X guild has cleared this content... it is always maby 10-20% of the players of a guild working independently of a guild. Typical static progression model.

    If you make a static to constantly lose people and have to recruit if you do raid. Expect to have to kick your friends to progress faster. Expect the people to have a me me me mentality once they find something better expect them to bail on you.

    Yes some people are loyal to groups and guilds, my guilds has it as well. But speaking from experience this is a different game that fostered one of the most toxic mindsets I have seen in a mmo to date.

    FFXI, EQ, Oldschool WoW are litteraly the polar opposites of what this game is in terms of social structure. And it outlines the biggest problem with endgame today.
  • BlazeyerBlazeyer Member UncommonPosts: 562
    Xatsh said:

    FFXI, EQ, Oldschool WoW are litteraly the polar opposites of what this game is in terms of social structure. And it outlines the biggest problem with endgame today.
    Which I think is why a lot of us are really just game nomads now. We can't find that game to hold our addiction. Back then it wasn't just the game itself that kept our attention, a lot of it had to do with the connections we made.
  • AlbatroesAlbatroes Member LegendaryPosts: 7,671
    edited October 2015
    Honestly their way of doing things it cross the board though, especially if you look at how XI has been for a few years now since the teams switched up. In their infinite wisdom, they thought it would be a good idea to just produce low man content and down-grade the older content since of just like having a server merge? They haven't had a merge since 09. I'm sure there are some individuals who did not like how player dependent the game was but now there's hardly any need for people at all lol. What's the point of playing a MMO if you aren't going to play with people...? To add: In regards to XIV, I dont know how anyone else feels about it, but making relics into vanity items pretty much really upset me, which could also be solo'd easily as well.
  • seeyouspacec0wboyseeyouspacec0wboy Member UncommonPosts: 714
    Xatsh said:
    The developers even said they cannot add guild content because those without a guild would not be able to participate in interviews.
    That's so disheartening and counter intuitive to the genre. Ugh.

    Originally posted by Scagweed22
    is it the graphics? the repetativenesses? i mean what is the point? you could be so much more productive in real life
    Real life brings repetition and pointlessness too. The only thing real life offers is Great graphics. Its kinda expensive too and way to dependent on the cash shop. Totally pay to win as well. No thank you. Ill stick to my games.

  • nbtscannbtscan Member UncommonPosts: 862
    They've made the game much more accessible to people compared to games in the past that didn't have systems in place to match you up for content.  I think this is probably a big reason why a lot of people don't reach out and make new friends (which a good portion of people playing MMOs are introverts to begin with, oddly enough) compared to the days of old where you had no choice but to group up with people local to your server to accomplish things.

    I myself am guilty of this.  Most of the time I just PUG content and rarely I'll do things with my Free Company because they all have their own agendas.  A lot of the people in my free company I've also known 5+ years as well.
  • seeyouspacec0wboyseeyouspacec0wboy Member UncommonPosts: 714
    edited October 2015
    nbtscan said:
    They've made the game much more accessible to people compared to games in the past that didn't have systems in place to match you up for content.  I think this is probably a big reason why a lot of people don't reach out and make new friends (which a good portion of people playing MMOs are introverts to begin with, oddly enough) compared to the days of old where you had no choice but to group up with people local to your server to accomplish things.

    I myself am guilty of this.  Most of the time I just PUG content and rarely I'll do things with my Free Company because they all have their own agendas.  A lot of the people in my free company I've also known 5+ years as well.
    Does this take away from the quality of the game for you or do you still enjoy it?

    Originally posted by Scagweed22
    is it the graphics? the repetativenesses? i mean what is the point? you could be so much more productive in real life
    Real life brings repetition and pointlessness too. The only thing real life offers is Great graphics. Its kinda expensive too and way to dependent on the cash shop. Totally pay to win as well. No thank you. Ill stick to my games.

  • cmblackmore89cmblackmore89 Member UncommonPosts: 6
    I haven't, but a part of the problem is that I don't have as much time to play nowadays. I can't be around consistently and at the same time, which I think can have an influence on developing relationships with people over time. Additionally, when I got involved with my first MMORPG (Dark Ages), I didn't know anyone else who played. I had a lot of fun doing my own thing and making friends. Nowadays, though, I bring my friends with me. It's a different social experience to be playing with 1-4 friends I know outside of a game and impacts how I socialize with people I don't already know (especially in terms of making long-lasting friends as opposed to just playing with other people to pass the time). 
  • seeyouspacec0wboyseeyouspacec0wboy Member UncommonPosts: 714
    Additionally, when I got involved with my first MMORPG (Dark Ages), 
    Do you mean Dark Ages from Nexon? That was one of my earliest MMORPG's as well. I actually stumbled on their site recently and considered giving it a whirl again haha. I can't believe its still around! I wonder what its like these days.

    Originally posted by Scagweed22
    is it the graphics? the repetativenesses? i mean what is the point? you could be so much more productive in real life
    Real life brings repetition and pointlessness too. The only thing real life offers is Great graphics. Its kinda expensive too and way to dependent on the cash shop. Totally pay to win as well. No thank you. Ill stick to my games.

  • RazeeksterRazeekster Member UncommonPosts: 2,591
    I've actually made really great friends in this game to the point that when I take a break and come back it's as if I never left and we just begin where we left off. This is the only MMO besides Mabinogi where I've had that experience. People seem super friendly in FFXIV, more so than other MMORPGs from what I've experience.

    Smile

  • GodeauGodeau Member UncommonPosts: 83
    In 2.0, the only people that I have kept in touch were my coil static members. We agreed to login every tuesday night after reset, once cleared 2nd coil of bahamut(only content back then with the highest ilevel gear), talk to/see you next week!! lol.

    In 1.0 people were more actively speaking in linkshells.. In 2.0 however, even with free companies people aren't talking much.. or it could be that i'm just mixing with the wrong crowd, dunno.
  • HellboundHeartHellboundHeart Member UncommonPosts: 390
    Godeau said:
    In 2.0, the only people that I have kept in touch were my coil static members. We agreed to login every tuesday night after reset, once cleared 2nd coil of bahamut(only content back then with the highest ilevel gear), talk to/see you next week!! lol.

    In 1.0 people were more actively speaking in linkshells.. In 2.0 however, even with free companies people aren't talking much.. or it could be that i'm just mixing with the wrong crowd, dunno.
    Wrong crowd. I have 8 linkshells and an FC and their always very active.
  • Darkfalz89Darkfalz89 Member UncommonPosts: 581
    Ozreth said:
    Ozreth said:

    Agreed a lot of these folks that posted quit the game because.... well it wasn't FFXI part 2 or some other old school game and if they would have liked the game to begin with would have gone out of their way to make more lasting relationships. Also I played FFXI and loved the game but it was not perfect with end game socially. There was plenty of guilds that had problems(like 2 I was in) with keeping order of who got what drops, people quiting, ninja looters, all sorts of social problems. Those guilds I was part of broke up because of some of the same stuff people here were talking about for FFXIV. When that happened to me in XI I didn't give up and say the game sucked. I went out and looked for a new guild.
    Absolutely agree with you there Driven,I mainly socialized with player while focusing primailry on leveling all my classes for sub or just because they were very enjoyable compared to all these next gen MMO's. You will be surprised to find in the past year and a half FFXI has become much more solo friendly with a lot of various activities and battle content that is so different from each event. The game has become a lot more solo friendly and low man-able but much like people in this thread said; People have changed, but I cant quite say all of them have.

    Coming back to AA and playing for the past month now I can safely say that when all the the F2P crappers fell off from the games launch its left a very pleasant community. I'm in an amazing guild where we are constantly helping each other out and I haven't had this much fun in years. Its funny how the non themepark/sandboxy games can bring out some higher quality and more for the long term players. 
  • Darkfalz89Darkfalz89 Member UncommonPosts: 581
    edited November 2015
    Dzone said:
    Well i've been playing ff14 since it relaunched 2 years ago and I have very rarely ever did anything with my FC members.

    Back in ffxi though I did form good friendships with peaple. For ex: i used to see a certain someone out and about while i was just xping out in the open world, and we'd always say something like "Small world eh"

    There was another peason that used to send me a /tell literally everyday saying hi. One week I went to disney world and wasn't on the game, but the day i loged back in game that person was like "Where yo been all week" I enjoyed the brief company from that person actually.

    There was this galka i used to group up with everyday and he'd always call me hes little buddy. I was a taru :p.

    We used to just talk about random stuff in my old linkshe'll and get together to do things. Back in ffxi peaple would usually ask for help. I was a whm and ocationally i would teleport peaple around if they needed me to.

    Ye that part was nice, gathering with members from my linkshell in lower/upper jeuno and hanging out untill everyone was ready to go do w/e we were doing. I got the pleasure of teleporting us all and then we would hope down talk to this npc and jump on a chocobo and ride together across the open world.

    I havn't had none of those experiances in ffxiv, sadly. In ff14 i just log in do my daily rouletts and just log out.

    I know thers other stuff i can do, but the world just feels emply to me and alot of that other stuff like crafting just feels worthless to me.

    FFXI i enjoyed alot more that ff14, but i guss thats because the world in ffxi didn't feel empty compared to ff14.
    Feel exactly the way you do and that's not just because we both mainly played FFXIV after we played FFXI. Any last get MMO (DAoC/Ultima/EQ/EQ2/FFXI/SWG and countless other non mainstream MMO's of the time had this sense of adventure and the false sense of the whole world going outward rather than sitting in a town and pressing a button to go into an instance.The reason I say false sense is because the purpose of traveling in FFXI for example was to get someplace. With the ability to warp to a nearby crystal/homepoint/e.t.c. the journey becomes nullified because half of everything you did in mmos back them was planning and traveling. We forget all the time we spend doing all of these things because we simply enjoyed the moment, our nostalgia goggles as we say. 

    Now this is not to say that this is a bad thing, but something that comes with the territory. Sometimes you have to take a step back and realize you aren't a teen without any responsibilities that had 16 hours a day to dedicate to whatever MMO you played at the time. Responsibilities and adulthood eventually settle in and you cant spend 6 hours a night LFG on your Thief because everyone rather invite a WAR SAM or RNG for example. FFXI has made major improvements in the form of quality of life and gameplay as well as rounding off each class and a somewhat fair manner of usefulness. Even our last bastion of what we called our last real memorable MMO experience had to make some changes along the way. Whether or not you agree with choices they made is up to you, but if you haven't played since Seekers you should do yourself a favor and give it another shot. It still has one of the best communities to date and they never went anywhere, they are still playing it because they are enjoying it. 

    When I mention changes had to be made moving forward I didn't necessarily say I supported things like cross server ques and duty finder/dungeon finder. These tools to more harm than good and Is the core culprit and gateway drug do what created lobby focused MMO's. I will say that the world in 2.0 of FFXIV is a beautiful one but still somehow feels hollow to me. Surround that by a community that only seeks to help themselves (and I don't blame them, it the design of games now that support that behavior) unless you are on Cactuar in Hellbounds FC which is compromised of such a rare breed of kind individuals that compare only to those in the prior MMO's of Yore. < I'll admit this sounds very sarcastic but I am actually serious I assure you.
  • Darkfalz89Darkfalz89 Member UncommonPosts: 581
    edited November 2015
    We just cleared A3 Savage on Thursday night, and we were all so relieved that we logged off and haven't grouped or done anything since then. The truth is that there is not enough meaningful group content to forge lasting relationships with, especially Alexander Savage. We have had to tell very interesting and wonderful people that they needed to be replaced in our group because they weren't solid on mechanics or couldn't perform the DPS necessary to win.

    Even other major raiding groups are having these problems staying together, because to a large degree these fights require you to treat the people on your team like they are only DPS numbers. The frustration levels of insta-wipe mechanics in a thirteen minute fight cause all kinds of problems between members of the group who get irritated with each other. I enjoy the difficulty currently from the perspective of a raider, but from a social standpoint it is just awful.

    So the point I am making is that the game mechanics and systems DO influence the types of social interactions and relationships that are formed in the game. While I want to believe that "social interaction is on you, not the developers" its still the activities that we have to engage in together that determine how we socialize within the game. XIV simply doesn't have enough meaningful ways for people to interact and develop social bonds.
    This post really stood out to me namely because I have been seeing a LOT of these kinds of posts on the OF. Sadly with my occupational change has made me unable to dedicate specific time frames on a consistent basis week to week. Prior to 3.0 I did actively raid with some RL friends I always return to the game with + some higher quality puggies we befriended. I mean there were turns like T5 and especially T9 that were so frustrating to coordinate to get clears that once we beat it people didn't feel a sense of accomplishment. The repeated frustration of failing week to week almost seemed like it battered their very core of enjoyment in the game and once they beat it we never saw the puggies again. 

    This situation happened a lot throughout the raiding quarters of 2.0 to 2.55 but I have been hearing that its even worse with Alexander. I remember reading translated bits of interviews that were posted on the OF where Yoshi noted his disappointment with how little of the playerbase actually beat A4 Savage. He really didn't think that so little of the playerbase actually got that far. The week following the live letter noting the patch delay I found myself seeing a lot of players that had A3 to some A4 clears seeking new FC's to do savage with due to countless FC's disbanding/breaking apart/merging into other FC's and quitting. I mean things like this was normal to see but its why I really dislike raiding and wish the game focused more time on mid core battle content. 

    The bit where you mentioned having to turn away really awesome people because they were unable to produce results is another thing that really wore players down with HW. Personally I'm glad I wasn't able to raid in HW because of countless posts like this where I've seen people just drop right off because of how frustrating and un enjoyable raiding has been so far in this expansion.

    While I'm glad we got Diadem and it seems to be filling the gap the OF have been quite consistent in the amount of hardcore players that felt they were betrayed in this patch.
    While I like the idea of being able to access 210 gear already, the players that did manage to clear/were consistently clearing noted their frustration of how little time the 210 gear actually stayed relevant. It wasn't something I really thought about waiting for 3.1 but sudden change in mood on the OF was very noticeable today.
  • HellboundHeartHellboundHeart Member UncommonPosts: 390
    Ozreth said:
    A large argument against themepark MMO's is that they don't do as well at cultivating relationships the way older, more sandbox style games did. Honestly, the last time I made a lot of solid in game friends was in Vanilla WoW, which actually had some elements leftover from sandbox style games (open world PVP being the only PVP option, for instance). Before that it was FFXI and making friends was the core of that game.

    Has anybody made a good amount of serious in-game friends? How do you feel about the games ability to cultivate friendships? 
    I have.

    I also have to address that it's not the game, genre, or any mechanic in the game that prevents that. It's called lack of communication. It's easier to blame a game instead of yourselves. I play ESO, FF XIV, GW2, WS, and SWTOR. I have been apart of some great guilds. With great people. But, in the end, YOU, have to make the effort. And yes, it HAS to go both way's. See, if you join a Raid heavy server and join a raid heavy guild just because it looks populated is just dumb. And yes, I see people do this all the time.

    We have better systems in place now for socializing then we did back then.

    For an example for FF my FC has a Facebook page. We talk all the time out of game. I do not know them in real life but, it has become daily ritual to go here: https://www.facebook.com/groups/mysidia/ and see what everyone is up too.

    Maybe it's just me but, I make friends, lasting, meaningful, friends for years to come, even if we don't play together : http://https//www.facebook.com/groups/traparmy/

    So honestly, I do not blame the genre or some mechanic, I blame the players. An effort has to be made and their is no system in any game that will do it for us nor should there ever be.

    I love logging in and those special 30 folks always say, "HELL, your here, let's go do something." in any game. Believe it or not, I never want for friends or a group. 

    My trick, just say hi and engage. Ask how their day was and what their up too. Ask if they need help. Anything. I played the old school games EQ2, SWG, etc. Not XI. But I was able to make friends just as easily as I can now.

    But, as far as raids and raid groups go, I don't raid. Just not appealing to me. Maybe that's why I don't have issues with making significant relationships in game(s). I don't get stuck with elitists. Although I did to T9(we beat it) with my FC static and I got kicked because I could not get the hang of the other coils. MY FC LEADER KICKED ME. But, he is a great guy. He was polite and explained things to me and made me feel like a human being. Best FC leader I have met in game so far. Lends me gil constantly, I am known to be, "Broke as HELL", get it (rim shot).  We have trust too. I love the fact that we never ask for money for services. I meld all day for people and I will never ask for anything in return. It's a code we have in the FC. Friends do NOT make friends pay for Friends services. By doing this and having this code, we earn respect. That person say's, "Well if you don't want the gil, just let me know if you need a --fill job/quest/dungeon,etc-- to help with anything" 

    Talk. Talking is one of the key's to communication too. If nobody has said anything in the past 5 minutes and their are more then 30+ on, say something. Anything. Crack a joke. 

    Although if your Guild is not active and has full members and NO ONE talks, then yes, leave them. It's not the game or some mechanic, it's a lack of communication. If you can't get at least 20% of the guild to talk on a regular basis when your on, then leave.

    Also another good thing our FC does to get people jumping is we do Trivia night as well as races and hide and seek. Raid night (For our only static group), Dungeon Delve Night and we RP on the side just a little bit. Activities help. 

    Voice Chat Services. Whatever it is, be it C9, Team Speak, etc. You can use these programs without needing a game. Having it gives a HUGE social advantage. I am a huge talker when I get on the mic lol. We also have several room too for raids, The Bar (my favorite), the lounge, etc. This way not all are in one crowd. No matter what anyone does, there will be "crowds" or "sub groups" in guilds. Not everyone likes raiding or talking about it. Same with PvP or in some cases PvE. 

    DrivenDawn, DarkFallz89, Hyman, etc. all show signs of being "social" on the forums. If I can argue with these people for day's, then their worth their weight in gold in any game. Their probably the best examples of being "social" and creating, or having, "meaningful relationship's" in games.

    Just talk. Worked for me. It will work for others in any game genre. Regardless of mechanics or PvP status. Even online RTS games.

    It falls on us to make the effort.
  • BaitnessBaitness Member UncommonPosts: 675
    To the post above (quoting it is huge!) I thought it would be worth mentioning that I have been putting a lot of effort into trying to get to know people since thinking about this post.  I joined a large FC and talk with people a lot.  What is odd (or maybe it isn't with how FFXIV works) is that we still don't play together.  I have never grouped with more than one guildmate at a time, even when 50 are online and wanting to do things.  People that want to raid all belong to statics outside the FC, the people that want to do less hardcore content pug it via Duty Finder.

    I still think the DF is a good idea, mind you, and it helps way way more than it hurts.  For the most part (there have been some recent exceptions while levelling alts) in this game, my experience in Duty Finder groups has been excellent, which means there has not been any need to wait to find guildies that want to do something.  On top of that, running with guildmates actually stops you from getting commendations.  I think it would be nice if there was some incentive to play with guild groups, but really maybe that is overthinking it.  Exploration already provides an incentive for FC groups.
  • HellboundHeartHellboundHeart Member UncommonPosts: 390
    edited November 2015
    Baitness said:
    To the post above (quoting it is huge!) I thought it would be worth mentioning that I have been putting a lot of effort into trying to get to know people since thinking about this post.  I joined a large FC and talk with people a lot.  What is odd (or maybe it isn't with how FFXIV works) is that we still don't play together.  I have never grouped with more than one guildmate at a time, even when 50 are online and wanting to do things.  People that want to raid all belong to statics outside the FC, the people that want to do less hardcore content pug it via Duty Finder.

    I still think the DF is a good idea, mind you, and it helps way way more than it hurts.  For the most part (there have been some recent exceptions while levelling alts) in this game, my experience in Duty Finder groups has been excellent, which means there has not been any need to wait to find guildies that want to do something.  On top of that, running with guildmates actually stops you from getting commendations.  I think it would be nice if there was some incentive to play with guild groups, but really maybe that is overthinking it.  Exploration already provides an incentive for FC groups.
    To this end, I know what you mean. When I first log in for the day, I usually spend the first 2 hours or so alone. Mostly doing all the daily stuff.

    Sometimes it's lust pure bad luck too. I'll queue to level an alt and get almost everyone ready and then FC chat pops up with peeps forming groups for expert and the such. I mean if we have 2 dps and 1 heals and just need 1 tank to join and I need the run for the level, i'm not taking a chance to leave the DF. Especially if were just waiting on one more person.

    Sometimes i'll log in and half the fc is gone to the Diadem. Or already got groups and doing the roulette.

    For me, it's personal time with a mix of luck. Sometimes I get on too late and sometimes, like the other day, I get lucky and we run Diadem and roulettes.

    Vary's from person to person, day to day, I think.
  • HellboundHeartHellboundHeart Member UncommonPosts: 390
    Also, I never mentioned this before, could be a factor but, I have kids. Because of that I am limited on play time. I can play mostly at night. But, when I check the Loadstone it shows my FC peeps logging in at 9 or 10 am, eastern time. So this could be a factor too. Even if I get on at night, I still need to do my daily stuff, Ixali(for crafters), Vanu Vanu(love Ginu Vanu), etc.

    So I guess time and your environment could be a social factor as well. I did choose a (NON)Official East Coast US server, Cactuar. So most stay on till 2 or 3 am. But, I miss the morning crowds. the peeps who have to work at night.

    But if I get on in the mornings and not at night, I miss the night owl's.

    I guess socializing comes down to how it works best for you. Even if you do nothing as a group with your guild, as long as that chat is popping, everything is okay in my eyes. Were socializing. One step at a time.
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