Biggest indie game scams

YashaX

Recently there has been an upsurge of games made by "indie" devs, in part due to easy access of  tools that generally only bigger companies could afford in the past and wide distribution platforms like Steam. The upside of this is a plethora of new ideas and games, but it has not been all roses.

We now have to put up with titles seemingly in perpetual early access, complete lack of professionalism, with devs blatantly lying and even telling gamers to "fuck off" on  their websites, paying all sorts of fees, crowdfunding, crowdforging, donations, etc for the promise of a game some time in the future etc.

However,  yesterday I saw a scam, or at least attempted scam, that was so audacious it is almost funny. I give you Pixel Z:



Might be old news to some, but it blew my mind so had to share.

jesteralways

Hehehehe.....amazing...

ShortyBible

Haha. Thanks for the video. This was new news to me.
Gamer's need to   be real cautious these days.
We just need to keep exposing these scammers.

MrSnuffles

The Greedmonger Scam by Jason Appleton was the first to go on Kickstarter with Unity Assets and pictures right out of the Asset Store claiming to be making a MMORPG. Pretty much every Unity game on Kickstarter uses store assets and needs to be taken with a lot of caution as most are simply thrown together assets pretending to be developing a game.

danwest58

Do you expect any Indie game to be good and worth your time?  No.  They pull people off the street that have no programming skills and now they are a developer.  This is what Indie base companies do and the more you support them and end American Dollars to these kickstarts the more you screw yourself.  

Slapshot1188

The biggest are yet to come.  The Greedmonger fiasco was just the tip of the iceburg.  Now you will have plenty of "developers" that will post wonderful sounding game concepts, maybe a few screenshots or a video walking around a few buildings and asking for your help.  They will undoubtedly convince a few that if they don't support this game it will never get made.

Kefo

danwest58 said:

Do you expect any Indie game to be good and worth your time?  No.  They pull people off the street that have no programming skills and now they are a developer.  This is what Indie base companies do and the more you support them and end American Dollars to these kickstarts the more you screw yourself.  

The binding of Isaac, Legend of Grimrock, World of Goo, FTL, Super Meatboy to name a few that are good and worth my time

Bluddwolf

Take a look at Pathfinder Tech Demo of January 2013: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mBqHiRyRf90 and then the game, even now in Aug of 2015.  Although the graphics are not as smooth then as they are now, there are animations in the tech demo that worked better than in the released game.  You also don't have siege engines or destructable buildings, with those particle effects.  This is a building being destroyed in PFO from yesterday or day before:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4-g_BNcR36M&feature=youtu.be .  

SlyLoK

I dont mind a game that uses Unity Assets to make.. Not everyone is a programmer and an artist and an animator etc. If they can set themselves apart with working features and gameplay then using bought assets shouldnt matter and people should not look down on that game because their use. 

Now I have yet to see a Unity games that uses Store Assets not be the same as the rest but that doesnt mean it isnt possible.

YashaX

Slapshot1188 said:

The biggest are yet to come.  The Greedmonger fiasco was just the tip of the iceburg.  Now you will have plenty of "developers" that will post wonderful sounding game concepts, maybe a few screenshots or a video walking around a few buildings and asking for your help.  They will undoubtedly convince a few that if they don't support this game it will never get made.

At least they have to come up with a game concept and some original screenshots and videos; Pixel Z and the like use the promotional videos from the Unity asset store for the Unit Z game framework as is. Literally the only thing they did was change the name to Pixel Z.

But I agree that preying on the hopes of gamers in niche markets as a way to make money looks like an upcoming trend.

ElRenmazuo

danwest58 said:

Do you expect any Indie game to be good and worth your time?  No.  They pull people off the street that have no programming skills and now they are a developer.  This is what Indie base companies do and the more you support them and end American Dollars to these kickstarts the more you screw yourself.  

This doesnt look good to you? http://store.steampowered.com/app/347800/   And thats just one indie game, I got a whole list on another thread.  Ori and the Blind Forest too which was good enough for microsoft to put on Xbox

SirBalin

YashaX said:

Recently there has been an upsurge of games made by "indie" devs, in part due to easy access of  tools that generally only bigger companies could afford in the past and wide distribution platforms like Steam. The upside of this is a plethora of new ideas and games, but it has not been all roses.

We now have to put up with titles seemingly in perpetual early access, complete lack of professionalism, with devs blatantly lying and even telling gamers to "fuck off" on  their websites, paying all sorts of fees, crowdfunding, crowdforging, donations, etc for the promise of a game some time in the future etc.

However,  yesterday I saw a scam, or at least attempted scam, that was so audacious it is almost funny. I give you Pixel Z:



Might be old news to some, but it blew my mind so had to share.

You said, "do they think we're fucking stupid?"  My answer is...look at Star Citizen...[mod edit].game is right where it was day 1...but add concept art and people spend money...lol,[mod edit].

Distopia

Slapshot1188 said:

The biggest are yet to come.  The Greedmonger fiasco was just the tip of the iceburg.  Now you will have plenty of "developers" that will post wonderful sounding game concepts, maybe a few screenshots or a video walking around a few buildings and asking for your help.  They will undoubtedly convince a few that if they don't support this game it will never get made.

People need to understand a bad game isn't a scam... it's a bad game... In the Op's situation sure, that's some straight BS. Yet Pathfinder or MO or a number of other shoddy designs? That's just amateurs being amateur. There's a huge difference. Unprofessional behavior is also not grounds to call scam... cough....
 

I see people calling scam far more than any scams actually take place. It's not unlike after Age of Mourning or D&L where this type of extreme paranoia of indies took hold. Which those two were the tips of the ice-burg, they used very early pre-order schemes to pull off their shenanigans. Greed Monger's story isn't all that different.

Scam is a serious accusation, it shouldn't be used lightly, especially against start ups, dream-seekers etc... All you're doing is making it harder on them, for no reason.

Loke666

Lol, showing alpha footages of a different game to sell their own one.. Hilarious.

Distopia said:

Scam is a serious accusation, it shouldn't be used lightly, especially against start ups, dream-seekers etc... All you're doing is making it harder on them, for no reason.

Did you see the video? The problem isn't that they are making a crap game but that they stole the video from an excisting game...

Distopia

Loke666 said:

Lol, showing alpha footages of a different game to sell their own one.. Hilarious.

Distopia said:

Scam is a serious accusation, it shouldn't be used lightly, especially against start ups, dream-seekers etc... All you're doing is making it harder on them, for no reason.

Did you see the video? The problem isn't that they are making a crap game but that they stole the video from an excisting game...

  " In the Op's situation sure, that's some straight BS." miss that part? it was the second sentence..

YashaX

Distopia said:

Slapshot1188 said:

The biggest are yet to come.  The Greedmonger fiasco was just the tip of the iceburg.  Now you will have plenty of "developers" that will post wonderful sounding game concepts, maybe a few screenshots or a video walking around a few buildings and asking for your help.  They will undoubtedly convince a few that if they don't support this game it will never get made.

People need to understand a bad game isn't a scam... it's a bad game... In the Op's situation sure, that's some straight BS. Yet Pathfinder or MO or a number of other shoddy designs? That's just amateurs being amateur. There's a huge difference. Unprofessional behavior is also not grounds to call scam... cough....
 

I see people calling scam far more than any scams actually take place. It's not unlike after Age of Mourning or D&L where this type of extreme paranoia of indies took hold. Which those two were the tips of the ice-burg, they used very early pre-order schemes to pull off their shenanigans. Greed Monger's story isn't all that different.

Scam is a serious accusation, it shouldn't be used lightly, especially against start ups, dream-seekers etc... All you're doing is making it harder on them, for no reason.

Yeah usually there is some pretense at least of really trying to make a game, straight up scams like this are surprising to me partly due to how absolutely no attempt is made to mask the truth (note that this is apparently the third time the Unit z Unity asset has been used like this).

However, i don't see any reason why "start-ups, dream seekers" etc should be sheltered from criticism once they start charging. I think some of them could better be described as "upstarts, dream-crushers". 

Once such devs start spouting lies and half truths to encourage people to give them money on the promise that at some time in the future they will make a game that checks all the boxes of some niche market, in my book they have definitely been put into the scam category. This is especially true if the devs have no prior experience creating games and/or are charging subs and selling high priced "pledges" for pre-release/ pre alpha work.
  

Note: The video in the OP is Jim Sterling, not me

Raxeon

danwest58 said:

Do you expect any Indie game to be good and worth your time?  No.  They pull people off the street that have no programming skills and now they are a developer.  This is what Indie base companies do and the more you support them and end American Dollars to these kickstarts the more you screw yourself.  

not always true look at project gorgon

Loke666

Raxeon said:

danwest58 said:

Do you expect any Indie game to be good and worth your time?  No.  They pull people off the street that have no programming skills and now they are a developer.  This is what Indie base companies do and the more you support them and end American Dollars to these kickstarts the more you screw yourself.  

not always true look at project gorgon

Look on Eve online. And if we are talking about none MMOs, look on Minecraft.

When supporting a kickstarter game you do need to see on who they actually have. Some of them do actually have talented people like Garriot. Others have a totally new team who never really made anything. Just like any investment you need to check up facts before giving any money or you have a large risk of losing it. But not all kickstarters and indie devs are failures.

Most larger companies started out as small indie devs from the beginning, heck even Microsoft had close to zero money from the start. The majority of small devs fail, others get bought up and becomes a part of larger companies like EA but a few actually makes it big.

No-one believed in Blizzard when they started to work on Warcraft, the only thing they were known for earlier was to port a few Amiga games to PC.

Don't write off all small companies, 99% of them might be gone in a few years but a few of them will be huge in the future. It is not always easy to guess who that will be though.

PottedPlant22

Bluddwolf said:

Take a look at Pathfinder Tech Demo of January 2013: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mBqHiRyRf90 and then the game, even now in Aug of 2015.  Although the graphics are not as smooth then as they are now, there are animations in the tech demo that worked better than in the released game.  You also don't have siege engines or destructable buildings, with those particle effects.  This is a building being destroyed in PFO from yesterday or day before:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4-g_BNcR36M&feature=youtu.be .  

Pathfinder Online should be embarrassed.  Project Gorgon is the game that they should of made based on the IP.  It's Unity 5 and looks better and more features than PFO could even dare hope to have.  I love PVP, but I was hoping they would have more of PVE sandbox mix in it.  Gorgon isn't really PVP, but I'm just looking at what the game did with the engine in the same genre with only 2 debs in 3 years with virtually no money.  PFO is in over their head and they simply don't have the talent to pull off what needs to be done.  

ShortyBible

Reminds me of Rob Steele. Who in their right mind would give money to a guy with the name Rob and Steele.
He and his friends were a  guild  (Forsaken) in Mortal Online.
When they quit Mortal Online they formed Forsaken Studios  HAHA  and did a kickstarter for their game
Embers of Careus.  Rob then stole the money and closed shop never to be heard from again

Aeolyn

ShortyBible said:

Reminds me of Rob Steele. Who in their right mind would give money to a guy with the name Rob and Steele.
He and his friends were a  guild  (Forsaken) in Mortal Online.
When they quit Mortal Online they formed Forsaken Studios  HAHA  and did a kickstarter for their game
Embers of Careus.  Rob then stole the money and closed shop never to be heard from again

Gee, isn't that now called emergent gameplay?

Grunty

This is currently on their Steam page:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=29&v=v1sKM0oWuy0

It's now a top down  pixelated survival game,

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=487095666

KenFisher

There are developers, there are probably con artists pretending to be developers, and there are probably some where it's not immediately clear into which category they belong.

Fortunately, it's not my job in life to sort them out.

YashaX

Grunty said:

This is currently on their Steam page:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=29&v=v1sKM0oWuy0

It's now a top down  pixelated survival game,

That is from a different developer (is that even the right word?), and the name is also somewhat different.

ShortyBible

Aeolyn said:

ShortyBible said:

Reminds me of Rob Steele. Who in their right mind would give money to a guy with the name Rob and Steele.
He and his friends were a  guild  (Forsaken) in Mortal Online.
When they quit Mortal Online they formed Forsaken Studios  HAHA  and did a kickstarter for their game
Embers of Careus.  Rob then stole the money and closed shop never to be heard from again

Gee, isn't that now called emergent gameplay?

HAHA, Maybe we should be playing that game

Distopia

YashaX said:

Distopia said:

Slapshot1188 said:

The biggest are yet to come.  The Greedmonger fiasco was just the tip of the iceburg.  Now you will have plenty of "developers" that will post wonderful sounding game concepts, maybe a few screenshots or a video walking around a few buildings and asking for your help.  They will undoubtedly convince a few that if they don't support this game it will never get made.

People need to understand a bad game isn't a scam... it's a bad game... In the Op's situation sure, that's some straight BS. Yet Pathfinder or MO or a number of other shoddy designs? That's just amateurs being amateur. There's a huge difference. Unprofessional behavior is also not grounds to call scam... cough....
 

I see people calling scam far more than any scams actually take place. It's not unlike after Age of Mourning or D&L where this type of extreme paranoia of indies took hold. Which those two were the tips of the ice-burg, they used very early pre-order schemes to pull off their shenanigans. Greed Monger's story isn't all that different.

Scam is a serious accusation, it shouldn't be used lightly, especially against start ups, dream-seekers etc... All you're doing is making it harder on them, for no reason.

Yeah usually there is some pretense at least of really trying to make a game, straight up scams like this are surprising to me partly due to how absolutely no attempt is made to mask the truth (note that this is apparently the third time the Unit z Unity asset has been used like this).

However, i don't see any reason why "start-ups, dream seekers" etc should be sheltered from criticism once they start charging. I think some of them could better be described as "upstarts, dream-crushers". 

Once such devs start spouting lies and half truths to encourage people to give them money on the promise that at some time in the future they will make a game that checks all the boxes of some niche market, in my book they have definitely been put into the scam category. This is especially true if the devs have no prior experience creating games and/or are charging subs and selling high priced "pledges" for pre-release/ pre alpha work.
  

Note: The video in the OP is Jim Sterling, not me

I never said that they should be sheltered from criticism, not even close to that, critique is different than calling out someone on criminal predatory actions. However you want to look at them after they fail, I'm sure for many of them no one is more upset or crushed than they are.