"You’re a bad player and you need to get better"

123457»

Comments

  • AlleinAllein Member RarePosts: 2,055
    In the video they say rock papers scissors isn't fun.  Then they describe creating classes that are rock paper scissors.  The example of a player being good as an assassin but not good at other things so he should stick to what he's good at is exactly what rock paper scissors playstyle is, rocks go after scissors and they will do better.

    I thought if players aren't playing the game as intended it was because the game allowed them to play in unintended ways.  The game world sets the rules and once the player logs into that world he is subject to those rules.  If the rules are explained well, the players know what their getting into.  If the player is expected to work out what the rules are for themselves then that's a different story.  They will need some clarifications as they work stuff out.  Such as, "Is this really working as intended?"

    If players are playing the game wrong there should be plenty next to them telling them how it should be played unless most are playing it wrong then the problem isn't the players.


    Not positive, but I see their use of PvRvS to be more about hard counters and 1v1. Two equally skilled/geared players have an outcome determined by class selection.

    Where as in CF, an archetype might be terrible vs the majority of other roles but excels at siegecraft. While another role does really well 1v1 against most, but offers little in other situations.

    Stacking a team of the best 1v1 role might be a disadvantage compared to a mixed group.

    Ex: Assassins might be able to kill anyone 1v1 easy, but 10 of them vs 10 tanks, casters, support, etc might not be in their favor.

    So it is more about Team vs Team (group/guild/alliance) dynamics and less about the 1v1 that most PvRvS games revolve around.

    If Druids are terrible at 1v1 fighting, but make a group roll over non-Druid groups, they don't need to be balanced for 1v1.

    Not sure if that made sense, but that's how I'm seeing it.

    So players should pick a archetype for the role it serves to the overall experience, not only their personal 1v1 achievements. Unless they just want to 1v1 and avoid the Throne War aspect of the game, which I'm sure plenty will do.

    Ex: If Druids are lackluster at 1v1, someone complaining that they can't solo anyone are doing it wrong are playing the game wrong.

    Assuming of course that each role is explained upfront and so far they have been good about this.


  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Boca Raton, FLMember EpicPosts: 7,181
    But the problem is there only hurting themselves with something so dumb in an email before the game is even out...

    I mean we have had what a handful in just this thread alone saying now they wouldn't back because of it that's bad judgement on his/there part to write something so idiotic,
    If you really think any of those guys were actually going to play the game..  I have a bridge to sell you.

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Starvault's reponse to criticism related to having a handful of players as the official "test" team for a supposed MMO: "We've just have another 10ish folk kind enough to voulenteer added tot the test team" (SIC) This explains much about the state of the game :-)

  • Shas_TraitorShas_Traitor HanoiMember UncommonPosts: 8
    edited April 2016
    Viper482 said:

    Just got an email from these guys with this in the subject line, yes I was interested enough in the game to sign up for the newsletter. Might be done with that though.

    “If you come into the game and immediately seek out a bunch of situations where you're going to be weak and then you get killed over and over and over again, that doesn't mean the game is unbalanced. It means that you're a bad player and you need to get better.” 

     – J. Todd Coleman, Creative Director

    Not saying what they are saying is not true, but it is typical elitist speak in pvp games. It is never the game balance, it is you are just a bad player. Sometimes it is true, but many times it is just elitists being elitist. I expect this kind of talk from elitist players, I do not expect it from developers. If the people making it have this attitude just imagine the type of population it is going to attract.

    That is hilarious. I had a developer call me 'scum' once after a ban for 'defeating the spirit of the game', whatever that means.
    Post edited by Shas_Traitor on

  • YashaXYashaX Baldurs GateMember RarePosts: 1,937
    "You'’re a bad player and you need to get better"

    That's what I feel every time I play Dark Souls 3 .....
    ....
  • Sid_ViciousSid_Vicious Portland, ORMember UncommonPosts: 2,023
    Every single dev will say the same thing when they know that there is a challenge that is difficult.. they try and sell it by trying to make you want the challenge.

    Hopefully you want this game to have a challenge? I sure as hell do.

    Usually when I die in games, I blame myself, despite how challenging the game is.. its being a good sport in my opinion.

    Not sure where your fear of 'elitist' comes from but its probably a funny story..

    : D

    NEWS FLASH! A bank was robbed the other day and a man opened fire on the customers being held hostage. One customer zig-zag sprinted until he found cover. When questioned later he explained that he was a hardcore Darkfall Online player and knew just what to do.

    Watch me play Darkfall and sometimes PVP in other MMORPGs on Twitch.

    Darkfall has launched!!! MAY 5th!! Join before its too late!

    Follow my RP blog here: http://riseofagon.blogspot.com/



  • aushmeeaushmee Member UncommonPosts: 18
    They are right in some point. If you look league of legends most of the players thinks they are BEST :D:D In reality they are bad players so they need to get better instead of saying " Champion is OP". You need to develop new strategy to handle problem not blaming the game.
  • FolbyOrbFolbyOrb Lexington Park, MDMember UncommonPosts: 357
    What I'm reading between the lines in that statement is, "Don't buy the game, get home, play for an hour, die more than you'd like to, and charge off to the official forums raging about balance."

    Maybe try to adjust your playing to the situation.

    Can balance be the issue? Of course. >.> World of Warcraft PvP.

    Is it always? No. Overwatch players are complaining about Bastion being overpowered. If he was, you would see many more Bastion's in a match than the usual one. The reason you don't is because he is strong in his line of sight, but has zero mobility when set up as a turret. My guess is the people complaining about him being overpowered are standing in his line of sight trying to kill him with a pistol or bow or SMG and getting shredded.

    Elitist go to statement: get gud. Player who doesn't want to take the time to get gud go to statement: it's not balanced.

    Crowfall looks like it will be fun, IMHO, so I'm going to give it a try. I hope it challenges me.

    Playing | GW2
    Wanting | Pantheon
    Watching | Crowfall
    Retired | WAR, Cabal, MO, CO, SHK, WoW, FFXIV: ARR

  • Hawkaya399Hawkaya399 Member UncommonPosts: 193
    edited May 24
    I don't know OP. I see just as much BS on both sides. Here you're blaming the elitists and they you. Unfortunatley this is common place.

    I think there's nothing wrong with what wasaid in the OP. If you go somewhere and you're weak, don't expect to win. If every player can win every situation then it's not a game anymore, it's just a IWIN button.

    A game where you lose everytime is a ILOSE button.

    Some people are saying the message could have been rephrase more friendly. Like "Classes have strenths and weaknesses. You have to play to their strengths or the weaknesses of your opponent."

    Changing the message won't work in the long term. It's good public relations, however. Probelm is the whiners will always come out and scream and shout when they lose. Eventually every class is homogenized. Eventuallly it's so dumbed down you quit and lookg for another MMO or game. Ironically, this is because game makers listen to the players too much. They can listen too little. But more often than not it's too much.

    Let me tell you a story. I was playing Action Quake 2. There's no progression in that. It's just straight old fashioned FPS. So there I was and we kept getting murdered by this one player. S/he was good, aright? We passed around BS. I got mad too. It's irritating to get headshottd almost everytime. So anyway I fought through the pain. There were many matches like this. Eventually I too was delivering headshots. Others are going to get mad and BS. It's human nature. You can whine or you can swallow your pride. If you want to be good, you have to put all that behind you and move forward.

    I realize a MMO can be designed badly, in such a way players are being "griefed" or consistently placed in matches they'll lose. I acknolwedge that. MMO's do need anti-griefing considerations. To be fair. But don't confuse fair with always winning or never encountering adversity.
    Post edited by Hawkaya399 on
  • ZionBaneZionBane Member UncommonPosts: 328
    Viper482 said:

    Just got an email from these guys with this in the subject line, yes I was interested enough in the game to sign up for the newsletter. Might be done with that though.

    “If you come into the game and immediately seek out a bunch of situations where you're going to be weak and then you get killed over and over and over again, that doesn't mean the game is unbalanced. It means that you're a bad player and you need to get better.” 

     – J. Todd Coleman, Creative Director

    Not saying what they are saying is not true, but it is typical elitist speak in pvp games. It is never the game balance, it is you are just a bad player. Sometimes it is true, but many times it is just elitists being elitist. I expect this kind of talk from elitist players, I do not expect it from developers. If the people making it have this attitude just imagine the type of population it is going to attract.

    I hope they attract those kinds of players to their game.. and.. writing this game off my list of games to try.
    turinmacleod
  • TamanousTamanous Edmonton, ABMember RarePosts: 2,574
    edited May 24
    The issue isn't what he said but how he said it. Most developers are players themselves and are more than familiar with gaming speak. If someone fronts a project it may be more wise to choose their words more carefully to communicate their intent.

    If they are developing a game that demands a stronger learning curve then obviously new players will require adapt. There have been so many mmos over the last many years that have merely copied the play style and keybinds from previous games and many players have lost the concept of having to learn something entirely new.

    I feel it is a very good thing to have games possibly such as Crowfall (although I'm not familiar enough with it to know it's planned differences) and Camelot Unchained which plan very different game play that will require greater strategy and learning curves.

    A recent example I've went through is with the fps Day of Infamy. It is a inspired largely by Day of Defeat (a game I rather mastered back in the day), a WWII, half-life engine fps. Day of Infamy however requires far greater team cooperation and movement/game play strategy to master due to vastly improved game play evolution.

    I first entered the game and, although my twitch skills were still rather good, noticed my run and gun strategies from DoD simply did not work. I died an ass ton. After tons of practice I really started to see what the devs were trying to do and maps became much easier when playing along side others who also learned how to properly play the game. When on maps with obvious new players games would be over very quickly as we'd lose terribly. Even with one great player these maps cannot be won alone. 

    Someone could say something similar about these new players needing to stop being "bad" but it really only means they need to learn ... and most do when experienced players take the time to properly communicate what needs to be done instead of raging on the "baddies". The one great side affect of a difficult win is the great sense of achievement that was earned. This is largely forgotten in the many very easy modern games of today.
    Post edited by Tamanous on

    You stay sassy!

  • lahnmirlahnmir UtrechtMember RarePosts: 882
    ZionBane said:
    Viper482 said:

    Just got an email from these guys with this in the subject line, yes I was interested enough in the game to sign up for the newsletter. Might be done with that though.

    “If you come into the game and immediately seek out a bunch of situations where you're going to be weak and then you get killed over and over and over again, that doesn't mean the game is unbalanced. It means that you're a bad player and you need to get better.” 

     – J. Todd Coleman, Creative Director

    Not saying what they are saying is not true, but it is typical elitist speak in pvp games. It is never the game balance, it is you are just a bad player. Sometimes it is true, but many times it is just elitists being elitist. I expect this kind of talk from elitist players, I do not expect it from developers. If the people making it have this attitude just imagine the type of population it is going to attract.

    I hope they attract those kinds of players to their game.. and.. writing this game off my list of games to try.
    They are right though. Throwing yourself into a situation without any proper assessment and/or tactics will get you killed. Like it should. They are simply stating there is a learning curve and tactics and group play are required.

    Of course that sounds much less exciting and scandalous then ' you suck stupid player, learn my game or gtfo.' But we already know all of that, there is no NDA, check for yourself what players and streamers are saying and showing about the pre alpha gameplay (it rocks btw) and don't let some out of context, necro thread persuade you not to.

    /Cheers,
    Lahnmir


    'the only way he could nail it any better is if he used a cross.'

    Kyleran on yours sincerely 

  • ZionBaneZionBane Member UncommonPosts: 328
    lahnmir said:
    ZionBane said:
    Viper482 said:

    Just got an email from these guys with this in the subject line, yes I was interested enough in the game to sign up for the newsletter. Might be done with that though.

    “If you come into the game and immediately seek out a bunch of situations where you're going to be weak and then you get killed over and over and over again, that doesn't mean the game is unbalanced. It means that you're a bad player and you need to get better.” 

     – J. Todd Coleman, Creative Director

    Not saying what they are saying is not true, but it is typical elitist speak in pvp games. It is never the game balance, it is you are just a bad player. Sometimes it is true, but many times it is just elitists being elitist. I expect this kind of talk from elitist players, I do not expect it from developers. If the people making it have this attitude just imagine the type of population it is going to attract.

    I hope they attract those kinds of players to their game.. and.. writing this game off my list of games to try.
    They are right though. Throwing yourself into a situation without any proper assessment and/or tactics will get you killed. Like it should. They are simply stating there is a learning curve and tactics and group play are required.

    Of course that sounds much less exciting and scandalous then ' you suck stupid player, learn my game or gtfo.' But we already know all of that, there is no NDA, check for yourself what players and streamers are saying and showing about the pre alpha gameplay (it rocks btw) and don't let some out of context, necro thread persuade you not to.

    /Cheers,
    Lahnmir


    Not really, I've come to learn that there is a limit on how good i am ever going to get, like realizing that you're never gonna be an NBA star. I know I don't have the hand-eye coordination, nor do I have the raw time to invest into a game to 'git-gud'... so.. I guess I am gonna have to play my strengths and.. well.. play something else more my pace. 

    Good luck to you all., have fun! 
    Alverant
  • rojoArcueidrojoArcueid GinnungagapMember EpicPosts: 8,671
    edited May 24
    "you are a bad player and need to get better"

    If i was paid to enter a PvP competition, or just planned a friendly match with a group of people, then this statement would apply IMO.

    On the other hand, If i just care about having fun in the game i'm playing then i don't give a salty biscuit about winning/losing a pvp encounter so i don't need to get better.

    Enjoyment > chores

    my thoughts. Getting better happens naturally the more you play, if you like the game enough to keep playing. No need to be pushy.
    Post edited by rojoArcueid on

    image
  • General-ZodGeneral-Zod Zod, CAMember UncommonPosts: 868

    "So you mean to tell me... if i'm constantly putting myself in unfavorable situations and die...  I'm a bad player?! ... HOW DARE YOU!!! UNFORGIVEABLE!!!!"


    I see some disdain regarding the way this message was delivered but honestly I have to applaud Creative Director Todd Coleman. Lets not fool ourselves people, gamers aren't necessarily honest with themselves. In reality the gaming community is rampant with the spoiled, sensitive and entitled.  It's always the baddies who don't bother putting in the effort to understand the game who are first to write the most ridiculous review.... It's shameful.





    image
  • FlyByKnightFlyByKnight Algo Star SystemMember RarePosts: 1,908
    Somebody must be leveling necromancy...
    JamesGoblin
  • Viper482Viper482 Somewhere, FLMember RarePosts: 1,654
    This thread is still a thing? lol
    JamesGoblin
  • DMKanoDMKano Gamercentral, AKMember LegendaryPosts: 16,653
    This is why this forum needs auto-lock or auto-archive of old threads. 
    Nyctelios
  • ConstantineMerusConstantineMerus LondonMember RarePosts: 1,093
    DMKano said:
    This is why this forum needs auto-lock or auto-archive of old threads. 
    It's like a horror anime.

    "That discussion has been dead for 5 years." :worried:

    "Well, it's back again. And it is pissed off!"
    JamesGoblin
    I am a piece of carbon with a soul, wondering where I got it from. 
    - Drunken Mozart in the Desert
  • lahnmirlahnmir UtrechtMember RarePosts: 882
    "Return of the Living Thread?"

    /Cheers,
    Lahnmir
    NycteliosKajidourdenJamesGoblin
    'the only way he could nail it any better is if he used a cross.'

    Kyleran on yours sincerely 

  • NycteliosNyctelios Novo Hamburgo - RS - BrazilMember EpicPosts: 2,248
    Well, actually "git gud" mentality is a really nice topic for discussion.

    "The Death and Return of Thread"
    JamesGoblin

    " Tawnos's blueprints were critical to the creation of my armor. As he once sealed himself in steel, I sealed myself in a walking crypt. "
    —Urza

    - Steam ID Discord ID: Night # 6102
  • FrykkaFrykka Spokane, WAMember UncommonPosts: 22
    edited June 5
    Iselin said:

    The reality is that Crowfall is a F2P game: they want you no matter what and are trying to appeal to your ego since very few people consider themselves "bad."


    Crowfall is not F2P, it is Buy-to-Play, buy once; play unlimited with a VIP monthly option that allows 2 added class only training lines to an account.   Most just get another account or more instead of VIP...

    Amusing that the weak minded that would never survive a sandbox environment have to state how much they don't care for the community as being "toxic" yet live in mmo's with no real competition and kiddie rides.  Thank goodness Crowfall will bring some serious guilds back to play a proper game for keeps.   It is not elitest at all to simply say that some folks belong on the sidelines or in the bleachers while the players take the field.
    Post edited by Frykka on
    JamesGoblin
  • Nightbringe1Nightbringe1 Bluefield, WVMember UncommonPosts: 1,233
    Viper482 said:

    Just got an email from these guys with this in the subject line, yes I was interested enough in the game to sign up for the newsletter. Might be done with that though.

    “If you come into the game and immediately seek out a bunch of situations where you're going to be weak and then you get killed over and over and over again, that doesn't mean the game is unbalanced. It means that you're a bad player and you need to get better.” 

     – J. Todd Coleman, Creative Director

    Not saying what they are saying is not true, but it is typical elitist speak in pvp games. It is never the game balance, it is you are just a bad player. Sometimes it is true, but many times it is just elitists being elitist. I expect this kind of talk from elitist players, I do not expect it from developers. If the people making it have this attitude just imagine the type of population it is going to attract.


    If all the "bad" players left, most MMO's would quickly go out of business.
    JamesGoblin

    Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do.
    Benjamin Franklin

Sign In or Register to comment.