Vanguard really seems..............Odd.

LkaosLkaos West Van, BCMember Posts: 4

Honestly, at this point it seems Vanguard just ISNT a soldier with a gun anymore. You never really get to shoot things.

 

And then they remove one of the few "Shoot things" abilities left.

 

Wow, really? reaaaaaall smooth. Doesn't help that it's other animations just don't compare to Bounty Hunter (Who acts like Iron Man) anyway.

Anyways, here's my idea on how to change it. if anyone that has a sub (Because I just don't do subs, It's either permanent or no) feel free to copypaste this.

 

1: Redesign Mortar Barrage to "Suppressing fire" which lays down a barrage of automatic firepower to stun and deal damage in an area.

2: Explosive round switched to "Overcharged blast" aka a large single blaster round.

3: Stockstrike turned into "Wristblade" which should be self-explanatory, and basically the sci-fi version of a combat knife.

4: Storm needs to be given some sort of logic, end of discussion. The Trooper's "Inspiration" (Storm and Clone troopers) have been seen using jetpacks, heck it's one of the first scenes of the Clone Wars movie. Come on, just give us a cool jetpack.

5: Pulse Cannon, Ion Storm, all the "Lightning Gun" features are fired from the off-hand instead. It both looks awesome (Oh, cute, you gave up your soul for lightning, I just bought some) in a "Don't need no stinkn force" way, and gets rid of the "Swiss army gun" problem.

Comments

  • Adjuvant1Adjuvant1 Peoria, ILMember RarePosts: 2,100

    I geek-out about Star Wars from time to time. I'd like to point out, in your comparisons of republic trooper to Clone Wars stormtroopers, you're talking about a difference of about 3600 years. Take a look at this timeline, where BBY is "Before Battle of Yavin", where Luke destroyed the first Death Star, and look at, around 3650 BBY.

    http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Timeline_of_galactic_history

    That is the timeline for SWtOR, those events, those politics and those personalities. Just saying, SWtOR devs set the storyline to such a time period, they granted themselves pretty wide artistic license, and the things you imagine a "Clone Wars trooper" to be able to do, quite likely, are very different than the things a trooper 3600 years prior does. I mean, your ideas are cool and all, but while you're submitting them, make sure they're in context.

  • LkaosLkaos West Van, BCMember Posts: 4

    When I refer to the Clone Trooper, it's because the devs themselves mention "Inspirations" for each class.

    For example, the reason Bounty Hunter and Smuggler are on the sides they are is because of Bobba Fett and Han Solo,

    Jetpacks clearly do exist by this time, and elite special-ops soldiers would probably be the type to use them.

  • alivenaliven SzczytnoMember UncommonPosts: 299

    But jet packs in SW universe are almost only for bounty huntarz. Troopers got a rifle to smack people, operative got rifle to balance weight of all blades i guess. There is no single class that use rifle in any RANGE. Just melee. 

     

    Also, vanguard is better thinked as a commando type. Behind enemy lines, knive and so on. otherwise you will go mad when you giant rifle is used for smacking things. 

     

    SMASH ALL THE THINGS!

  • GeezerGamerGeezerGamer ChairMember EpicPosts: 7,956
    Originally posted by Adjuvant1
    I geek-out about Star Wars from time to time. I'd like to point out, in your comparisons of republic trooper to Clone Wars stormtroopers, you're talking about a difference of about 3600 years. Take a look at this timeline, where BBY is "Before Battle of Yavin", where Luke destroyed the first Death Star, and look at, around 3650 BBY. http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Timeline_of_galactic_history That is the timeline for SWtOR, those events, those politics and those personalities. Just saying, SWtOR devs set the storyline to such a time period, they granted themselves pretty wide artistic license, and the things you imagine a "Clone Wars trooper" to be able to do, quite likely, are very different than the things a trooper 3600 years prior does. I mean, your ideas are cool and all, but while you're submitting them, make sure they're in context.

    I enjoy SWTOR, but to be honest, I don't even think there is a connection to anything else "Star Wars". SWTOR, resembles Star Wars, but it's really not. Not even close.

    I find the game varies far too much from what Lucas originally wrote, that I don't really think of SWTOR as the real Star Wars universe.

  • CalgorCalgor Wasilla, AKMember Posts: 106
    Originally posted by Lkaos
    Honestly, at this point it seems Vanguard just ISNT a soldier with a gun anymore. You never really get to shoot things.   And then they remove one of the few "Shoot things" abilities left.   Wow, really? reaaaaaall smooth. Doesn't help that it's other animations just don't compare to Bounty Hunter (Who acts like Iron Man) anyway. Anyways, here's my idea on how to change it. if anyone that has a sub (Because I just don't do subs, It's either permanent or no) feel free to copypaste this.   1: Redesign Mortar Barrage to "Suppressing fire" which lays down a barrage of automatic firepower to stun and deal damage in an area. 2: Explosive round switched to "Overcharged blast" aka a large single blaster round. 3: Stockstrike turned into "Wristblade" which should be self-explanatory, and basically the sci-fi version of a combat knife. 4: Storm needs to be given some sort of logic, end of discussion. The Trooper's "Inspiration" (Storm and Clone troopers) have been seen using jetpacks, heck it's one of the first scenes of the Clone Wars movie. Come on, just give us a cool jetpack. 5: Pulse Cannon, Ion Storm, all the "Lightning Gun" features are fired from the off-hand instead. It both looks awesome (Oh, cute, you gave up your soul for lightning, I just bought some) in a "Don't need no stinkn force" way, and gets rid of the "Swiss army gun" problem.

    1: Vanguards already have enough stuns they certainly don't need an AOE stun AND damage combined. VG/Powertech is one of the most OP classes in PVP at the moment (second only to Shadow/Assassins and to increase their utility with not only a 3rd aoe stun but an aoe ranged stun even more would be a huge mistake.

    2: Thats more of a Gunslinger/Sniper ability, to supercharge up their weapons for the big hit. VGs aren't weapon specialists they are combat specialists, all parts of their weapons are viable not just the trigger. Which leads to...

    3: I believe the BH have an ability like that so to give it to VGs would break the same but different thing they have going on with the mirrored classes.

    4: Who is the iconic jet pack user in the Star Wars universe? Bobba Fett. What is he? A bounty hunter.

    5: So their lightning comes from their suit instead of their gun? Meh I don't see the big deal in changing it but it seems like a change for changes sake.

     

  • FlintsteenFlintsteen HolstebroMember UncommonPosts: 282

    1 and 2 I can agree to,  however I realy like my shockstrike.  Don't take that away.  I like mortar wolley too,  but it does feel kinda wrong for that many grenades to launch from a rifle.  4 and 5 I just don't care either way.

     

    TBH I think Vanguards are in a decent place atm.  Ofc I would like more abilyties to be linked to shooting bullets instead of shooting electricity,  but imo SWTOR has far bigger issues atm.

     

    I also don't like loosing rapid fire. Also it's an odd way of balancing,  just to remove certain skills. It may have increased the tanks dps slightly,  but I don't think anyone actually think Vanguard tank dps was too high.   It was more a matter of the other 2 type of tanks may have been abit low.

     

    No tanks used rapid fire before 3.0. (because of pushbacks wich was removed in 3.0) Even today I don't use rapid fire in rotation,  it's more of an extra stun for stray nonelites that shoot at the healer,  that way I can gain agro and save taunt for another target if needed.  Rapid fire still gets interrupted by stuns and knockbacks and boy do tanks get stunned and knocked around a lot in SWTOR.

  • LkaosLkaos West Van, BCMember Posts: 4

    Not really sure how the quote system here works yet so I guess I'll just refer to each question.

    @Calgor

    1: Mortar Barrage already does that.

    2: Honestly, I don't know where you get that from.

    3: Tactics Vanguards already have a Wristblade for "Gut". There's also the only time I can recall anyone using "Wristblades" which is Clone Assassins, once again, part of the "Base" upon which Troopers were inspired. You might be thinking of "Rocket Punch" which is quite different.

    4: And he was originally a "Odd" clone, not to mention how Clone troopers were rather Mandalorian. Once again, claiming BH has jetpacks because of Fett, and then saying Troopers can't because Clones (Who came from the same era) are too "Advanced" is quite the double standard

    5: it just feels strange for certain rifles to shoot lightning.

    @Flint

    I just use Rapid fire for soloing because it just plain feels "Right" compared to running up to people and punching.

  • CalgorCalgor Wasilla, AKMember Posts: 106
    Originally posted by Lkaos
    Not really sure how the quote system here works yet so I guess I'll just refer to each question. @Calgor 1: Mortar Barrage already does that. 2: Honestly, I don't know where you get that from. 3: Tactics Vanguards already have a Wristblade for "Gut". There's also the only time I can recall anyone using "Wristblades" which is Clone Assassins, once again, part of the "Base" upon which Troopers were inspired. You might be thinking of "Rocket Punch" which is quite different. 4: And he was originally a "Odd" clone, not to mention how Clone troopers were rather Mandalorian. Once again, claiming BH has jetpacks because of Fett, and then saying Troopers can't because Clones (Who came from the same era) are too "Advanced" is quite the double standard 5: it just feels strange for certain rifles to shoot lightning. @Flint I just use Rapid fire for soloing because it just plain feels "Right" compared to running up to people and punching.

    1: Mortar barrage doesn't stun anything but the weakest of pve mobs (like most damaging aoe abilities), and you don't balance a class based on solo pve play.

    2: I get that from abilities GS/Snipers already have.

    3: This isn't clone wars and VGs are neither clone nor storm troopers. So I don't get why you keep trying to say they should be the same as something that won't exist for another 3500+ years.

    4: For over 20 years the only person in the Star Wars canon who used a jetpack was Bobba Fett, a bounty hunter. That is why BH = Jet Packs. In Revenge of the Sith a Jedi used a blaster, so should Jedi be wielding guns? Or do you go with whats most iconic for each class?

    5: I think the reason they have lightning is the BH got flames and they worked backwards from there. They are mirror classes so if BH get a short range cone attack then so must the VGs. Fire is already taken, viola lightning attack. Again this is the least important change but at this point...meh 6 of one half a dozen of the either really.

  • GorweGorwe Ald'RuhnMember RarePosts: 4,281
    The bigger problem to me is how random Tactics feels. It should really be a medium ranged discipline:

    Gut replaced by...serrated bolt like ability that fires immediately. It also sunders enemies.

    Really, the only reason you are in melee is to apply a DoT(which as you can see can be redesigned into a ranged skill) and to apply a debuff(the same as in previous bracket). That IS NOT NEARLY a good enough reason to be in melee! Plus, people have been asking for a medium ranged(10-15m) Vanguard/PowerTech discipline for a long time.

    ...but all of these is pretty minor. Swtor has got more severe problems that need to be fixed before they attempt such miniscule changes.

    And yes, swtor isn't really star wars because it is a stinking MMO! If it only had been like Dragon age: origins, it would be so much better and it would even be reminiscent of star wars. Ofc, they could've just looked at Kotor franchise for inspiration, but didn't you hear? Common sense is like a superpower these days!
  • LkaosLkaos West Van, BCMember Posts: 4
    Originally posted by Calgor
    Originally posted by Lkaos
    Not really sure how the quote system here works yet so I guess I'll just refer to each question. @Calgor 1: Mortar Barrage already does that. 2: Honestly, I don't know where you get that from. 3: Tactics Vanguards already have a Wristblade for "Gut". There's also the only time I can recall anyone using "Wristblades" which is Clone Assassins, once again, part of the "Base" upon which Troopers were inspired. You might be thinking of "Rocket Punch" which is quite different. 4: And he was originally a "Odd" clone, not to mention how Clone troopers were rather Mandalorian. Once again, claiming BH has jetpacks because of Fett, and then saying Troopers can't because Clones (Who came from the same era) are too "Advanced" is quite the double standard 5: it just feels strange for certain rifles to shoot lightning. @Flint I just use Rapid fire for soloing because it just plain feels "Right" compared to running up to people and punching.

    1: Mortar barrage doesn't stun anything but the weakest of pve mobs (like most damaging aoe abilities), and you don't balance a class based on solo pve play.

    2: I get that from abilities GS/Snipers already have.

    3: This isn't clone wars and VGs are neither clone nor storm troopers. So I don't get why you keep trying to say they should be the same as something that won't exist for another 3500+ years.

    4: For over 20 years the only person in the Star Wars canon who used a jetpack was Bobba Fett, a bounty hunter. That is why BH = Jet Packs. In Revenge of the Sith a Jedi used a blaster, so should Jedi be wielding guns? Or do you go with whats most iconic for each class?

    5: I think the reason they have lightning is the BH got flames and they worked backwards from there. They are mirror classes so if BH get a short range cone attack then so must the VGs. Fire is already taken, viola lightning attack. Again this is the least important change but at this point...meh 6 of one half a dozen of the either really.

    1: I guess this one's just miscommunication. Suppressing fire is supposed to be a reskin of Mortar Barrage, forgot to add the "weak/normal mobs" qualifier.

    2: I only see "Charged Burst". One skill isn't enough to qualify it.

    3: And yet you use the exact opposite arguement later. What is the trooper based on? Storm/Clone Troopers. This includes Jet Troopers. The only guy in the game to use a Wristblade is the Trooper, the only characters that used wristblades before are who the Trooper is based on.

    4: So one example character, who wasn't really that important at all when he debuted and only became who he is later, was kicked off by a half-assed jedi and into the sarlacc, is enough? Or, to put it another way.

    3: The only characters in the Star Wars canon who used Wristblades were Clone troopers. This is why Trooper=Wristblade.

    4: This isn't the original trilogy and PT is neither Jango nor Bobba Fett. So I don't get why you keep trying to say they should be the same as something that won't exist for another 3500 years.

    5: TBH, my first attempt at a re-think of this was "Semi-auto scatterfire barrage" like a shotgun, but removing Vanguard's eletric theme at this point is too much of a change.

  • andre369andre369 .Member UncommonPosts: 970

    Dont remember what level I got to, but I played a bounty hunter. And guess what I cannot fly with it at all. I can stand still casting some rockets while "in the air"! AWESOME! .... No, if I have a jetpack on my back, and I cant even hoover a little, maybe a double jumpish? Smells bad game design to me. I know its an MMO and the class is, just simply a class.

    But depth like this, or rather lack off is just another proof to why this game had to go F2P. They did rather successful with their F2P model. But yea, when I play a bounty hunter with a jet pack and cant even hoover a bit. It is lazy game design. What!? One class having something unique that others cant do? NO, this is a MMORPG that is very balanced and we cannot have fun things like that.

    Remember developers! This might turn into a popular e sport game, we cannot have fun elements interfere with that slight possibility! 

  • CalgorCalgor Wasilla, AKMember Posts: 106
    Originally posted by andre369
    Dont remember what level I got to, but I played a bounty hunter. And guess what I cannot fly with it at all. I can stand still casting some rockets while "in the air"! AWESOME! .... No, if I have a jetpack on my back, and I cant even hoover a little, maybe a double jumpish? Smells bad game design to me. I know its an MMO and the class is, just simply a class. But depth like this, or rather lack off is just another proof to why this game had to go F2P. They did rather successful with their F2P model. But yea, when I play a bounty hunter with a jet pack and cant even hoover a bit. It is lazy game design. What!? One class having something unique that others cant do? NO, this is a MMORPG that is very balanced and we cannot have fun things like that. Remember developers! This might turn into a popular e sport game, we cannot have fun elements interfere with that slight possibility! 

    F2P makes up about 20% of its playerbase, its about getting people a taste of the game so they will pay in the future. So ya the F2P teaser model has been quite successful in getting people to pay to play.

    Nobody can fly and nobody ever will fly, they said that from day one. And yes to give one class the ability to fly while others couldn't would be stupid unbalancing, not to mention if they did add flying in any form the datacrons would become ridiculous easy mode.

Sign In or Register to comment.