DCUO - Still one of the best in the lot.

135

Comments

  • LimnicLimnic Member UncommonPosts: 113
    edited January 4
    Well it's obvious I'm already dealing with a troll.

    Could someone have told me he was like this before trying to have a normal conversation with him?
    Post edited by Limnic on
  • maskedweaselmaskedweasel houston, TXMember RarePosts: 9,220
    Limnic said:
    Well it's obvious I'm already dealing with a troll.
    answer the question. 



  • MukeMuke Member RarePosts: 2,610
    Awakened said:
    Wall of text
    In short:

    It's your personal opinion.

    I have the same experience -as you claim- in MMOs, and DCU goes into my book as a 'very poor COV-COH wannabe title that noone plays' and it's just bandwith pollution.
    Plus SOE made it, and they never made any decent titles under Smed's rule.

    That's my personal opinion.

    Don't make it sound like your conclusion goes for the entire world.

    "going into arguments with idiots is a lost cause, it requires you to stoop down to their level and you can't win"

  • LimnicLimnic Member UncommonPosts: 113
    edited January 4
    To answer your question, I would restate my prior statements. Watching again I can say there are blocks I missed, but they all still fall into prior statements made.

    Like for example the timestamps you claimed. That 6:00 mark doesn't have a block. The part you were right on was that there was a block a little bit prior to that where the guy blocked some bullet spam, but he was mid-punch in that knockback, and you can see that it was due to the skill the other guy used to gain distance as well. That 6:05 claim, the enemy (not the guy making the video) was simply blocking for a while. 6:15 is where you see the enemy blocking again (yet again, not the guy making the video), 6:45 enemy (yet again, not the guy making the video).

    In other words, as I said before, It's generally not the guy winning that's doing the blocking. 

    These are much the same case and trends established early in the video, with, as I said before, the guy who made the video won by using considerably less skill than his opponents and cycling the same attacks way more to achieve victory. That the people who are losing are the ones using variety in their techniques is kind of a bad thing since it implies that the use of key builds and powers trumps player skill.

    And again this is all still sidegrade to the point (that DCUO is not isolated in it's game mechanics) in the first place, yet it's the only thing you wish to discuss. You done trolling yet?
    Post edited by Limnic on
  • maskedweaselmaskedweasel houston, TXMember RarePosts: 9,220
    edited January 4
    Limnic said:
    To answer your question, I would restate my prior statements. Watching again I can say there are blocks I missed, but they all still fall into prior statements made.

    Like for example the timestamps you claimed. That 6:00 mark doesn't have a block. The part you were right on was that there was a block a little bit prior to that where the guy blocked some bullet spam, but he was mid-punch in that knockback, and you can see that it was due to the skill the other guy used to gain distance as well. That 6:05 claim, the enemy (not the guy making the video) was simply blocking for a while. 6:15 is where you see the enemy blocking again (yet again, not the guy making the video), 6:45 enemy (yet again, not the guy making the video).

    In other words, as I said before, It's generally not the guy winning that's doing the blocking. 

    These are much the same case and trends established early in the video, with, as I said before, the guy who made the video won by using considerably less skill than his opponents and cycling the same attacks way more to achieve victory. That the people who are losing are the ones using variety in their techniques is kind of a bad thing since it implies that the use of key builds and powers trumps player skill.

    And again this is all still sidegrade to the point (that DCUO is not isolated in it's game mechanics) in the first place, yet it's the only thing you wish to discuss. You done trolling yet?
    LOL it's not trolling, in fact it was very much so a succinct point I was making regarding if you can actually see what the combat system is like.  

    Now that you've admitted you were wrong, we can move on to the next part.  look at 6:06 (looks like I was 6 seconds off)  Do you see where the guy who is attacking  runs a combo string, and when he is in the middle of the combo string he drops an elbow that is blocked by his opponent and he gets knocked by as signaled by a big red burst?  

    Keep in mind that this is a very old video from 2011 back when Ice Tanks were FOTM and the reflect damage (the ice ability he kept using) only proc'd when he took damage to reflect it.  I could post dozens of videos of DCUOs combat, even more updated ones.  

    Here's a legends PVP battle, this isn't using player characters, these are premades.




    You can clearly see, blocking matters a lot, so do combo strings, and combo prediction.  

    Do you see clearly what happens when you successfully block or block break?  Watch the fight at the beginning of 1:03.. you can see a lot of what the other games lack just in the mechanics here. 
    Post edited by maskedweasel on



  • LimnicLimnic Member UncommonPosts: 113
    And you still can't see the point.

    I don't give a single damn what semantic details that don't even matter to the reality that DCUO is one of a multitude of games with these mechanics. My point was simply that it's not unique on this matter. That you prefer this very specific version with that very specific tuning to how blocking affects something else, is inconsequential to that point regardless of how much you seem to think it matters.

    Do you clearly see that, or are you going to waste yet even more of my time?
  • LimnicLimnic Member UncommonPosts: 113
    edited January 4
    No really, do you understand that single point which is the only point I have even been apt to make?

    Has it sunk in that someone being able to break a block in a different manner than the twelve other games that all use the same general attack, combo mechanics, blocking, breaks/takedowns, etc does not suddenly make it some incomparable design.

    Do you get that spamming the block button in a fight does not render the game as being so much more deep or complex than other combo systems?

    Do you get just how much time you're wasting trying to shill your opinion as anything other than just that?

    It's blatant trolling. "Now that you've admitted you're wrong" for example is nothing short of a backhand without purpose, especially given what I said in that post didn't change as compared to the points I made on the video previously. Condescending stupidity is still stupidity, and this does nothing to provide any form of meaningful or reasonable discussion. Which means fundamentally that all you are doing right now is trolling.

    The game is not unique in this matter. That's a fact. There's nothing about this reality stopping you from enjoying the system for what it is, so stop being so overzealous with trying to pitch it as the pinnacle of creation.

    Post edited by Limnic on
  • sayuusayuu glendale, AZMember UncommonPosts: 508
    At this point I think it would do all of us good if you two would get it over with and  kiss already. . . :p
  • maskedweaselmaskedweasel houston, TXMember RarePosts: 9,220
    Limnic said:
    No really, do you understand that single point which is the only point I have even been apt to make?

    Has it sunk in that someone being able to break a block in a different manner than the twelve other games that all use the same general attack, combo mechanics, blocking, breaks/takedowns, etc does not suddenly make it some incomparable design.

    Do you get that spamming the block button in a fight does not render the game as being so much more deep or complex than other combo systems?

    Do you get just how much time you're wasting trying to shill your opinion as anything other than just that?

    It's blatant trolling. "Now that you've admitted you're wrong" for example is nothing short of a backhand without purpose, especially given what I said in that post didn't change as compared to the points I made on the video previously. Condescending stupidity is still stupidity, and this does nothing to provide any form of meaningful or reasonable discussion. Which means fundamentally that all you are doing right now is trolling.

    The game is not unique in this matter. That's a fact. There's nothing about this reality stopping you from enjoying the system for what it is, so stop being so overzealous with trying to pitch it as the pinnacle of creation.

    Being wrong is okay, just admit you were wrong. You're blowing this way out of proportion, it's okay that you don't know how the game works, I know you didn't after the first post.  

    The simple fact that you think that it's only about a block button makes it even more prevalent that you don't understand the underlying mechanics.  Here's my original guide:

    http://forums.mmorpg.com/discussion/301322/dcuo-combat-demystified-aka-why-oldschool-mmoers-wont-get-it/p1

    I think it speaks volumes, including many of the posts in that thread following.  A lot of people just don't get it, you included. It's okay.  Thats why I wrote the guide. 



  • LimnicLimnic Member UncommonPosts: 113
    edited January 5
    Repeating your opinion does not make it anything other than an opinion.
    And that again was entirely irrelevant to the point regardless.
    We've been over this.
    Post edited by Limnic on
  • NycteliosNyctelios Novo Hamburgo - RS - BrazilMember EpicPosts: 2,248
    edited January 5
    No, I wasn't talking about Champions Online when I mentioned mechanics.

    Guild Wars 2 has active defensive skills such block. Many action oriented mmo's works with counter and timed skills.

    Again: DCUO has its good points, I just don't see it as the special little diamond you are praising it to be.

    You are kinda edgy on here, which makes your signature banner kinda ironic if you ask me.
    Post edited by Nyctelios on

    " Tawnos's blueprints were critical to the creation of my armor. As he once sealed himself in steel, I sealed myself in a walking crypt. "
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  • maskedweaselmaskedweasel houston, TXMember RarePosts: 9,220
    Nyctelios said:
    No, I wasn't talking about Champions Online when I mentioned mechanics.

    Guild Wars 2 has active defensive skills such block. Many action oriented mmo's works with counter and timed skills.

    Again: DCUO has its good points, I just don't see it as the special little diamond you are praising it to be.

    You are kinda edgy on here, which makes your signature banner kinda ironic if you ask me.
    GW2 is even less like DCUO than champions.  GW2 doesn't have inherent active block skills,  the Guardian generally has several block skills (not including Aegis) including several classes that happen to have shields or like the ranger GS or Warrior Mace that has a temporary block feature,  but no class can block at any time, and  there are count downs on abilities that allow you to block.  The "counters" to a block are generally class specific to abilities that are unblockable.  Those skills are very few and not every class has them.

    That being said it isn't inherent in the combat system.  They are potential skills IF you choose to slot them.  I play GW2 frequently, I'm very versed in the differences.  

    It's quite simple,  I'm the only one thats actually posted any evidence of what I'm talking about, and the only actual hyperbole has been from those trying to back up claims that one game or another are "similar".  Limnic posted a list of games he believed were "similar" --- one of them is a 2D sidescroller with virtually NO combo skills to speak of.  It shows how far removed some people are just to be right -- he obviously doesn't even know what he's saying, he's just trying to prove someone else "wrong" despite me clearly showing the contrary.  

    Point being, they aren't.  Consider it hybridized, consider it whatever you want that helps you sleep at night, but as I said, show some specific examples of how the mechanics are exactly similar.  You will not, and cannot do so, or else you naysayers would have done so.

    As stated you don't understand how the combat works and what makes DCUO more of a fighting game than the traditional MMO style like what CO and GW2 utilizes. You say GW2 is like DCUO... seriously?  Just because a guardian can block some attacks?  Every attack in DCUO has a counter and every counter is inherent in the combat system that everyone  (any class - any weapon) has available to them at any time.  Show me a game with that.  Show me that in GW2.  You won't be able to.  

     I'm glad you all like my sig, because I've been applying it to people that have all talk and nothing to back it up with for weeks.    Back up your claims.  I unlike @Limnic do not have an issue with saying I'm wrong when I turn out to be so.  

    So with that in mind SHOW me a game with direct combat correlations to DCUO.  That's what I've been asking for in several posts now, it's a shame it's taken so long.



  • LimnicLimnic Member UncommonPosts: 113
    edited January 5
    Actually given the paragraphs you keep producing of nonsense, you have a big problem admitting such things. You posted evidence that proved our point, but live in denial of the fact.

    Hell, you even were wrong about your claim on the 2D game again. Dungeon Fighter does actually have a combo system that pans across skills for each class/char in it. Your best argument this entire time has been that these games aren't exact copies of each other, which is entirely irrelevant to the point that they are utilizing the same suite of gameplay mechanics.

    Your complete zealotry and trollishness has basically killed all logical discussion at this point which is truly unfortunate.
    Post edited by Limnic on
  • maskedweaselmaskedweasel houston, TXMember RarePosts: 9,220
    Limnic said:
    Actually given the paragraphs you keep producing of nonsense, you have a big problem admitting such things. You posted evidence that proved our point, but live in denial of the fact.

    Hell, you even were wrong about your claim on the 2D game again. Dungeon Fighter does actually have a combo system that pans across skills for each class/char in it. Your best argument this entire time has been that these games aren't exact copies of each other, which is entirely irrelevant to the point that they are utilizing the same suite of gameplay mechanics.

    Your complete zealotry and trollishness has basically killed all logical discussion at this point which is truly unfortunate.
    LOL Just because you don't know how to tell two games apart doesn't fall back on me, I posted another thread from years ago where dozens of people agreed how different the combat was compared to most games out there.  It's not my fault if you choose not to understand what the evidence I've posted is.  You couldn't even tell they were blocking in the second half of the video until repeated attempts,  I won't even bother going into details about the other combat mechanisms you don't understand.

    You just don't get it... that's clear.   You're the one simply trolling the point that you can't prove that these games utilize similar combat mechanics.  

    So here's the deal,  prove to me with hard evidence that every ability has a counter in these other games, just like a fighting game, and that all characters have that ability - like a fighting game, and we can go from there.  

    If you have no evidence (which you don't or else you would have posted it the several times I asked for it before) then keep utilizing your very low brow logic on why you believe these several games that are very unlike this one - somehow manage to check the boxes of being "similar". 

    Being able to counter every single ability with its corresponding ability isn't trivial when combat is more than half of what these games consist of.  It's an underlying mechanism that changes what the majority of the game IS.   You don't understand that, which is pretty sad at this point.  

    For someone who says they've played these games you really should be more aware.. but no doubt you've lied about that, and we already know you can't tell how the system works by stating that all the blocking used was at the beginning of the first video LOL



  • GorweGorwe Ald'RuhnMember RarePosts: 4,066
    Damn, I can't get into the mindset for testing the #stats matter. What should I do? I tried playing and...got overwhelmed really. Give me a goal pl0x :D
  • LimnicLimnic Member UncommonPosts: 113
    Repetition of the same flawed logic does not absolve the flaws.

    Like your harping on the combat counters. Just because one game is counter-heavy while another focuses more on the combo chains and breaks doesn't change that both those games operate on a very similar suite of core mechanics that constitutes an acrade-ish brawler type experience.

    Hence the outlandish demands you now ask for as if they are remotely sensible. The game doesn't need to be a carbon copy of implementation to have the same core combat mechanics and features. This is the same as you claiming a granny smith isn't an apple any more because it's greener and more tart than other apples you've tried. It's utter nonsense, you've latched on to the semantics of a design to try and make a completely overblown claim.

     As a result you keep sitting here producing paragraphs of repeated lies in hopes people will give up or something, and it's very annoying to see people who stoop to such levels as that to try and drown out logic with vapid ramble. With how blatant an effort you've put into trolling this thread, it's utterly laughable you'd even attempt accusing anyone else of such.
  • maskedweaselmaskedweasel houston, TXMember RarePosts: 9,220
    Limnic said:

    Hence the outlandish demands you now ask for as if they are remotely sensible. The game doesn't need to be a carbon copy of implementation to have the same core combat mechanics and features. This is the same as you claiming a granny smith isn't an apple any more because it's greener and more tart than other apples you've tried. It's utter nonsense, you've latched on to the semantics of a design to try and make a completely overblown claim.

     .
    Wrong, wrong and more wrong.

    You're trying to say "a granny smith apple is still an apple"  well DCUO is still a game,  but just as a granny smith apple tastes different than other apples - much more sour - that makes it different.  When you utilize that flavor profile in different ways, it fundamentally changes EVERYTHING.

    Don't believe me?  Make an apple pie with granny smith apples.  Make Apple Juice with granny smith apples. There's a reason people don't do that.  It's too sour.

    Fundamental mechanics of combat ARE the game.  It's a make or break mechanic.  It's what makes a game like Tekken, Street Fighter and Marvel vs Capcom fundamentally different.  It's what makes the difference between GW2 and GW1 different.  What makes SWG and SWTOR different.   On their root they may have similarities but the base mechanics of combat are supremely different.  This is what you don't understand.   It isn't overblown at all, it is quite simple and succinct. 

    What is overblown is the fact you try calling me out when you could simply find an MMO that plays similarly.   I can find dozens of single player games without batting an eye - but an MMO?  No.  And therein lies the issue.  Is this game UNIQUE as a game as a whole? No.  Is it UNIQUE for and MMO.  YES.  Put up or shut up, thats how I see it, show me a similar game or stop whining about it. 



  • rojoArcueidrojoArcueid GinnungagapMember EpicPosts: 8,684
    In my eyes, combat in DCUO has the same problem the Batman Arkham games have. Combat feels dull because there is no synchronization between attacks. You perform a long combo and you can clearly see a full stop between each attacks. There is no flow from one attack animation to the next. Characters in DCUO, just like Batman Arkham, make a full stop after each punch/kick, as if they were waiting for you to take a screenshot of each pose.

    With that said, monetization killed DCUO for me. I purchased the game at launch and then the first 3 DLCs and still was horribly restricted for not being a subscriber after it went F2P. Uninstalled, tried the PS4 version and they didnt offer an account link/transfer so i just pretended that game never existed altogether.

    image
  • maskedweaselmaskedweasel houston, TXMember RarePosts: 9,220
    In my eyes, combat in DCUO has the same problem the Batman Arkham games have. Combat feels dull because there is no synchronization between attacks. You perform a long combo and you can clearly see a full stop between each attacks. There is no flow from one attack animation to the next. Characters in DCUO, just like Batman Arkham, make a full stop after each punch/kick, as if they were waiting for you to take a screenshot of each pose.

    With that said, monetization killed DCUO for me. I purchased the game at launch and then the first 3 DLCs and still was horribly restricted for not being a subscriber after it went F2P. Uninstalled, tried the PS4 version and they didnt offer an account link/transfer so i just pretended that game never existed altogether.
    I agree with the first part,  while some combos do string together a bit better, the animations are created in such a way where the combat is disjointed purposely because you may change what you want to do mid attack.  It's VERY much like the Arkham games in that sense.  There's a stop between attacks because, like in the batman games, you may change what you want to do (counter, dodge) so it's very choppy.  Only in certain weapon combos would it be fluid (the staff, dual pistols and one handed weapons)  But the full stop is really bad on weapon sets like two handed, rifle and bow skills.

    I was also disappointed in the account transfer issue when playing on the PS4 (or the XB1).  



  • LimnicLimnic Member UncommonPosts: 113
    edited January 5
    Wrong, wrong and more wrong.
    That indeed describes everything you wrote.

    From your complete botch of the analogy to your misunderstanding of the mechanical design of games to your complete out of turn dismissal of things that were already mentioned. You are time and again proving out just how out of touch you are at present.

    The fact you restate now the premise point that's already found to be fundamentally false is reaffirmation of that. DCUO isn't unique as an MMO. We've put up, googling any of those titles previously mentioned and lookin up their combo systems and features can inform people of such at this point. You just have zero interest in shutting up.
    Post edited by Limnic on
  • maskedweaselmaskedweasel houston, TXMember RarePosts: 9,220
    Limnic said:
    Wrong, wrong and more wrong.
    That indeed describes everything you wrote.

    From your complete botch of the analogy to your misunderstanding of the mechanical design of games to your complete out of turn dismissal of things that were already mentioned. You are time and again proving out just how out of touch you are at present.

    The fact you restate now the premise point that's already found to be fundamentally false is reaffirmation of that. DCUO isn't unique as an MMO. We've put up, you just have zero interest in shutting up.
    LOL do you have a video that shows similar combat techniques, yes or no? 



  • LimnicLimnic Member UncommonPosts: 113
    "Hence the outlandish demands you now ask for as if they are remotely sensible. The game doesn't need to be a carbon copy of implementation to have the same core combat mechanics and features."

    You continue to spiral downwards demanding and repeating nonsense. If you actually enjoy the game this much then perhaps go enjoy it instead of trolling endlessly.
  • maskedweaselmaskedweasel houston, TXMember RarePosts: 9,220
    Limnic said:
    "Hence the outlandish demands you now ask for as if they are remotely sensible. The game doesn't need to be a carbon copy of implementation to have the same core combat mechanics and features."

    You continue to spiral downwards demanding and repeating nonsense. If you actually enjoy the game this much then perhaps go enjoy it instead of trolling endlessly.
    A simple yes or no will suffice. Answer the question.  Either you have one or not.  They are quite sensible.

    My stance:  "No MMO has combat like this one"
    your stance: "Yes they do"
    Me: Shows a video and explains it
    You:  Complains my request for posting a similar video isn't "remotely sensible"

    Answer the question, do you have a video? Yes or no? 



  • holdenhamletholdenhamlet Member EpicPosts: 3,726
    Had a good bit of fun when this game came out.  It was one of the first MMOs with action combat so it gets major props for that.  For some reason, it didn't catch on.  I think it came out right before the current super hero craze, so it was a little before its time.
  • LimnicLimnic Member UncommonPosts: 113
    edited January 5
    Limnic said:
    "Hence the outlandish demands you now ask for as if they are remotely sensible. The game doesn't need to be a carbon copy of implementation to have the same core combat mechanics and features."

    You continue to spiral downwards demanding and repeating nonsense. If you actually enjoy the game this much then perhaps go enjoy it instead of trolling endlessly.
    A simple yes or no will suffice. Answer the question.  Either you have one or not.  They are quite sensible.

    My stance:  "No MMO has combat like this one"
    your stance: "Yes they do"
    Me: Shows a video and explains it
    You:  Complains my request for posting a similar video isn't "remotely sensible"

    Answer the question, do you have a video? Yes or no? 
    "We've put up, googling any of those titles previously mentioned and lookin up their combo systems and features can inform people of such at this point. You just have zero interest in shutting up."

    "You continue to spiral downwards demanding and repeating nonsense. If you actually enjoy the game this much then perhaps go enjoy it instead of trolling endlessly."
    Post edited by Limnic on
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