DCUO - Still one of the best in the lot.

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  • goboygogoboygo Member RarePosts: 1,740
    edited January 2

    Nah DCUO still has the best combat system of any MMO out there to date.  It almost requires the use of a controller, 

    If it almost "requires" the use of a controller then I would say it has to be the "worst" combat of any PC based MMO out there.  But it sounds like it might be an okay multiplayer console game.  If of course you like console games.
    Post edited by goboygo on
  • ArglebargleArglebargle Austin, TXMember RarePosts: 2,065

    DCUO was a Super MMO developed for the console.   Very controller oriented.   Did some things well, but released with too little character design choice.   Superman was an ice tanker.... ;(  


    Didn't deliver what I wanted.  While I am sure it has added more stuff over time, the control scheme was not to my taste, so no sense me going back.  YMMV.

    If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.

  • TheocritusTheocritus Gary, INMember RarePosts: 5,369
    Just never was a fan of the superhero MMOs......Different strokes for different folks
  • GladDogGladDog Pottstown, PAMember RarePosts: 839
    I just went back to playing DCUO again, this time on the XBOX.  It really is a fun game, and honestly I like playing it with either a KB/mouse or a controller.  Each is a different style, and if you have voice comm the controller is probably slightly superior.  Slightly.  An experienced PC MMORPGer will be just fine with KB and mouse.

    So many of the mechanics are obviously influenced by EQ1 and EQ2.  And the entire lore system is right out of the comics.  You can solo most of it, but this game really shines in teams.  Is it to the same level as CoH was?  prettier graphics and far, far better end game, but overall CoH beats its heiny in general gameplay, especially with the nearly unlimited supply of character slots (if you sub) to try just about any hero style you can think of!

    DCUO has really fun combat that you need to rethink a lot.  In a lot of raids there would be pauses after a wipe where characters rethink and tweak their (6!) power choices and refamiliarize themselves with weapon combos.

    Overall I am having fun with this.  This game has the 4rd most hours played for me, after CoH, ESO and EQ2, and is very quickly approaching the hours I had invested in EQ2.


    The world is going to the dogs, which is just how I planned it!


  • GladDogGladDog Pottstown, PAMember RarePosts: 839

    DCUO was a Super MMO developed for the console.   Very controller oriented.   Did some things well, but released with too little character design choice.   Superman was an ice tanker.... ;(  


    Didn't deliver what I wanted.  While I am sure it has added more stuff over time, the control scheme was not to my taste, so no sense me going back.  YMMV.

    I was an early beta tester for this game, and according to the devs, they were working on a set called Might that would have been for Superman, Wonder Woman and others, but they finally had to admit it was BORING.  It works for NPCs since they don't need to be entertained, so they have it.  In the end they took some of the developed powers from Might and put them in the Iconic power choices.

    Right now the Rage set is probably the closest to Superman, even though it is really a Red Lantern set.  I am working with an Atomic tank right now, thinking it would be closer to Supes than anything else, but actually am finding it to be quite fun for the CC and ranged DPS.  I may end up making this Atomic dude be a DPS character and making either an Ice or Rage tank for my Superman fix.


    The world is going to the dogs, which is just how I planned it!


  • maskedweaselmaskedweasel houston, TXMember RarePosts: 9,220
    goboygo said:

    Nah DCUO still has the best combat system of any MMO out there to date.  It almost requires the use of a controller, 

    If it almost "requires" the use of a controller then I would say it has to be the "worst" combat of any PC based MMO out there.  But it sounds like it might be an okay multiplayer console game.  If of course you like console games.
    So basically you're saying that because a game might use a controller that makes it the worst game for a pc?  I guess flight sims should just give up, and that no fighting game like Street Fighter should ever be released as they're geared more towards control movement than keyboards,  oh and racing games are probably the WORST. 



  • maskedweaselmaskedweasel houston, TXMember RarePosts: 9,220
    Po_gg said:
    I like both (but CO better :wink: ) but I don't give a sh.t about combat so I don't really care how good or bad are they - that's up to each player's liking anyways. Still, as a "PC master race" member ( :lol:  sarcasm, if wasn't clear) I agree @cheyane . It is now a bit better, compared to how it was at launch, where it was a real pain to play on PC (as in, mouse and keyboard). Not only the combat, but the menu structure, the interface, etc. as well. Even if you arrived without any knowledge of the history (a console action game with a slight pinch of MMO flavour on top, built by Sony for the very goal of having a console MMO(ish) game on their gear and was advertised as such), it was clear from the first moment that it's just a console port and it's aimed mainly on PS3. Luckily they upgraded the UI a lot since launch, and slightly even the controls.

    Anyhow, since I'm not interested in the "who's combat is the bestestest" contest (for me neither of them is bad or off-putting, and I don't need more in that totally unimportant aspect of an mmorpg :wink: ), just wanted to reflect this:

      Not aimbots,  not macroing, not rotations, 
    khm... where were you when the banhammer cleared tons of macroers and glitchers from the game a couple years ago? :lol:
     The "banhammer" wasn't due to 3rd party macros being better in any way,  it was because of the animation glitching which was inherent in their game design.  You can even go on Youtube from the days when it first released and I was one of the testers that posted the glitches on YouTube.    The thing is, the issue is fixed now.  They added forced time bars for moves that used to allow glitching with the ability to animation cancel -- but you're still stuck in an animation instead of toploading them with all of the damage in a single hit.  

    Even the "stuck in stealth" attack bug was fixed pretty quickly, and some people did get banned for abusing that.... but name a game that doesn't have glitches, and then name a game where there are aimbots where the game actually has protections in place to combat them.  



  • maskedweaselmaskedweasel houston, TXMember RarePosts: 9,220
    Limnic said:
    That comparison video actually shows the champs char using multiple defensive powers in addition to the basic block to counter the enemy. That champs video is displaying a defensive build where the character is stacking defensive skills together to basically be unkillable since they can counter a wide range of potential attacks. The minority of his abilities are offensive CC powers he uses to whittle his enemy down. 

    That DUCO video you can actually see a good amount of repeating an attack chain to knock down an enemy and then a repeated loop. He only blocked early in the video whenever he was waiting for enemies to stand back up, and in the second half he stopped bothering to block altogether. Seriously, that was a seven and a half minute video of a dude mostly just repeating the same 5 second long attack chain until the other person would die. The ones displaying variety in their moves is ironically the person dying in that DCUO video, so not sure that "random draw" of yours is all it's cracked up to be.

    Champions being an "evolution" of CoH is both irrelevant as well as not entirely accurate since Champs is based on a third party rule system (the Hero System) and aimed to be more arcade-action combat styled. Champion's block isn't "time gated" the basic block ability you can use whenever you want (even as a cancel for other abilities) and you can augment it with many secondary effect options. This is in addition to many powers you can pick in the game having effects that tether to use of another power, or even the basic combat having the cycling count for attacks that you can use to time abilities to trigger their effects.

    You're grasping desperately at straws to argue something that so far proven to be untrue, and for a reason I can't even fathom in the first place. Is the only way for you to enjoy a game for you to believe it's a special snowflake? The fact that it's not has no bearing on whether you find it fun, so stop taking this information so hard.

    Since you already devolved this discussion by declaring "fight me bro", stroking your e-peen for the sake of ego and pride for some game is not helpful in a reasonable discussion. This is like when Uwe Boll tried to prove his movies were good by challenging people to a boxing match.

    If you really feel a pointless random fight in these games if of more benefit than, say, going into the games and looking through different player builds and a variety of gameplay strategies, then sure I'd be happy to entertain you some time. That's not going to change the point made that most of these games share the same basic mechanics as the likes of DCUO, just that it's been dolled up in different ways given other ancillary features.
     It's clear you didn't even watch the video for DCUO, he uses the block a LOT,  and in CO he never used the block...  I think you're basically seeing what you want to see. 

    I offered a chance to show you first hand,  it isn't even remotely a "fight me" scenario, it's simply to 1) see if you actually played them and 2) show you the clear differences in the combat as you don't understand them.   

    If you want to break it down to the "same basic mechanics" then everything has the "same basic mechanics" as anything else.  Planes and cars are exactly the same.  Steak is the same as muffins.  

    I'm simply calling you out because you don't know what you're talking about and its apparent.  The combat is very different... and due to your lack of understanding of both of them, and all those other games you mentioned that weren't even remotely close to DCUOs combat,  meet me in game and I'll show you the differences.

    It's a rare opportunity..  you have the actual choice to prove someone "wrong" on an internet forum.  Or you can choose not to because you know you can't.  I wouldn't be requesting this if I thought I was wrong.  It won't take long to show you the very clear differences in their mechanics. 



  • NycteliosNyctelios Novo Hamburgo - RS - BrazilMember EpicPosts: 2,248
    edited January 3
    That person has a good point, tho. The things you are calling unique can be found in many other mmorpgs and you are the one actually in denial.

    It doesn't mean DCUO is a bad game or have less personality - it also means its not better or special.

    Is it fun and engaging for you? If yes, good.

    I'd rather play Champions Online (but the version before it became f2p).
    Post edited by Nyctelios on

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  • maskedweaselmaskedweasel houston, TXMember RarePosts: 9,220
    Nyctelios said:
    That person has a good point, tho. The things you are calling unique can be found in many other mmorpgs and you are the one actually in denial.

    It doesn't mean DCUO is a bad game or have less personality - it also means its not better or special.

    Is it fun and engaging for you? If yes, good.

    I'd rather play Champions Online (but the version before it became f2p).
    Again, what game is similar in combat?  It isn't champions online...  Like I said, and with the video I posted, the combat is very different,  weapon skills and actual fighting is much more akin to a fighting game,  Champions doesn't even have anything like that... nothing remotely close. 



  • Po_ggPo_gg Twigwarren, WestfarthingMember RarePosts: 4,033

     The "banhammer" wasn't due to 3rd party macros being better in any way,   
    Yep, anim cancel is common in fighting games (with which DCUO has a shared root), but the reason of the wide bans, backed up by the producer letter, was exactly the wide-spreaded over-use and macroing of it. I reported one (on the PvE server, might I add, where it was mostly pointless) who didn't even switch it off while doing the mails in the police HQ, and who just laughed on the players said to him it could result a ban. Since SOE never bans anyone, he said. Maybe 1 month later arrived the hammer :wink:

    Nyctelios said:
    Is it fun and engaging for you? If yes, good.

    I'd rather play Champions Online (but the version before it became f2p).
    I too prefer CO but DCUO is fun as well, just the "mmo part" of it is much shorter.
    True, with removing the FreeForm from the free players CO lost its main forte to that audience, but if you have an FF slot, it is still the same it was pre-f2p.
  • maskedweaselmaskedweasel houston, TXMember RarePosts: 9,220
    Po_gg said:

     The "banhammer" wasn't due to 3rd party macros being better in any way,   
    Yep, anim cancel is common in fighting games (with which DCUO has a shared root), but the reason of the wide bans, backed up by the producer letter, was exactly the wide-spreaded over-use and macroing of it. I reported one (on the PvE server, might I add, where it was mostly pointless) who didn't even switch it off while doing the mails in the police HQ, and who just laughed on the players said to him it could result a ban. Since SOE never bans anyone, he said. Maybe 1 month later arrived the hammer :wink:

    But you didn't need to macro to "exploit" the system is what I'm saying.  The front loading of abilities worked even without the macros, which is why it was fixed, because anyone could do it if they knew the correct abilities to top load.  

    Using dual pistols I was able to glitch so that I was able to spam my block break at double the speed shortly after launch.  As you may know dual pistols is an AOE block break, so in team fights, floating above everyone and spamming it is already fairly effective, but when you're firing at double speed it actually does substantial damage too.  I never had to macro to do it.  Hand blast, rifle, and martial arts all had some ridiculous glitches



  • Po_ggPo_gg Twigwarren, WestfarthingMember RarePosts: 4,033
    But you didn't need to macro to "exploit" the system is what I'm saying.  
    We're talking about the same just from different directions :wink:  Sure you didn't need to macro it, and that's why it was around for years even. But people are lazy, and some did, for convenience. Then it started to spread like wildfire, until it reached a point where they (SOE) simply had to do something about it, so they swung the banhammer. (I think they even unbanned those few who complained that they never used macros just glitched "manually" occasionally when the situation was right for it - or at least there were posts about such complaints)
  • LimnicLimnic Member UncommonPosts: 113
    edited January 3
    Limnic said:
    That comparison video actually shows the champs char using multiple defensive powers in addition to the basic block to counter the enemy. That champs video is displaying a defensive build where the character is stacking defensive skills together to basically be unkillable since they can counter a wide range of potential attacks. The minority of his abilities are offensive CC powers he uses to whittle his enemy down. 

    That DUCO video you can actually see a good amount of repeating an attack chain to knock down an enemy and then a repeated loop. He only blocked early in the video whenever he was waiting for enemies to stand back up, and in the second half he stopped bothering to block altogether. Seriously, that was a seven and a half minute video of a dude mostly just repeating the same 5 second long attack chain until the other person would die. The ones displaying variety in their moves is ironically the person dying in that DCUO video, so not sure that "random draw" of yours is all it's cracked up to be.

    Champions being an "evolution" of CoH is both irrelevant as well as not entirely accurate since Champs is based on a third party rule system (the Hero System) and aimed to be more arcade-action combat styled. Champion's block isn't "time gated" the basic block ability you can use whenever you want (even as a cancel for other abilities) and you can augment it with many secondary effect options. This is in addition to many powers you can pick in the game having effects that tether to use of another power, or even the basic combat having the cycling count for attacks that you can use to time abilities to trigger their effects.

    You're grasping desperately at straws to argue something that so far proven to be untrue, and for a reason I can't even fathom in the first place. Is the only way for you to enjoy a game for you to believe it's a special snowflake? The fact that it's not has no bearing on whether you find it fun, so stop taking this information so hard.

    Since you already devolved this discussion by declaring "fight me bro", stroking your e-peen for the sake of ego and pride for some game is not helpful in a reasonable discussion. This is like when Uwe Boll tried to prove his movies were good by challenging people to a boxing match.

    If you really feel a pointless random fight in these games if of more benefit than, say, going into the games and looking through different player builds and a variety of gameplay strategies, then sure I'd be happy to entertain you some time. That's not going to change the point made that most of these games share the same basic mechanics as the likes of DCUO, just that it's been dolled up in different ways given other ancillary features.
     It's clear you didn't even watch the video for DCUO, he uses the block a LOT,  and in CO he never used the block...  I think you're basically seeing what you want to see. 

    I offered a chance to show you first hand,  it isn't even remotely a "fight me" scenario, it's simply to 1) see if you actually played them and 2) show you the clear differences in the combat as you don't understand them.   

    If you want to break it down to the "same basic mechanics" then everything has the "same basic mechanics" as anything else.  Planes and cars are exactly the same.  Steak is the same as muffins.  

    I'm simply calling you out because you don't know what you're talking about and its apparent.  The combat is very different... and due to your lack of understanding of both of them, and all those other games you mentioned that weren't even remotely close to DCUOs combat,  meet me in game and I'll show you the differences.

    It's a rare opportunity..  you have the actual choice to prove someone "wrong" on an internet forum.  Or you can choose not to because you know you can't.  I wouldn't be requesting this if I thought I was wrong.  It won't take long to show you the very clear differences in their mechanics. 
    The more you talk the more you prove my point.

    I watched the video, I watched it multiple times to keep track of the animations and time them. That's why I know halfway through the video the dude stopped blocking altogether, and his blocks in the first half were largely superfluous in the first place. That's why I know, and anyone else that watches that video will know, the dude used the same six second attack cycle in the first half and same five second attack cycles in the second half. That video shows a guy rotating the same attack over and over to achieve victory against random players. The complete antithesis to what you are attempting to claim.

    As I said as well, I'm perfectly willing to entertain your petty "fight me bro" nonsense if it will appease you, but no level of insanity can make it sound more reasonable than sampling across a variety of players in the game would be as compared to one person's angsty grudge match. Logic proves you wrong, I don't have to.

    Your hyperbole only goes to exemplify this point. The "same basic mechanics" are not existent across all games, and I never claimed they were. However, the fundamental mechanics found in the likes mentioned before with active combat systems using attacks, combos, counters, blocks, heavy strikes and block breaks, etc are a common toolkit shared across those titles. That is different from the likes of a title like WoW or GW2 even just as it's different from most shooters and so on. You trying to rip a comment out of context and spout nonsense just because you're angry about god knows what at this point does not make for intelligent or reasonable conversation.

    "Call me out" as much as you want, You've only managed to prove your own lack of insight into these games, it does not change the facts. If you really like the game this much then enjoy it for what it is, you don't have to make stuff up as to why you like it.
    Post edited by Limnic on
  • maskedweaselmaskedweasel houston, TXMember RarePosts: 9,220

     It's clear you didn't even watch the video for DCUO, he uses the block a LOT,  and in CO he never used the block...  I think you're basically seeing what you want to see. 

    I offered a chance to show you first hand,  it isn't even remotely a "fight me" scenario, it's simply to 1) see if you actually played them and 2) show you the clear differences in the combat as you don't understand them.   

    If you want to break it down to the "same basic mechanics" then everything has the "same basic mechanics" as anything else.  Planes and cars are exactly the same.  Steak is the same as muffins.  

    I'm simply calling you out because you don't know what you're talking about and its apparent.  The combat is very different... and due to your lack of understanding of both of them, and all those other games you mentioned that weren't even remotely close to DCUOs combat,  meet me in game and I'll show you the differences.

    It's a rare opportunity..  you have the actual choice to prove someone "wrong" on an internet forum.  Or you can choose not to because you know you can't.  I wouldn't be requesting this if I thought I was wrong.  It won't take long to show you the very clear differences in their mechanics. 
    The more you talk the more you prove my point.

    I watched the video, I watched it multiple times to keep track of the animations and time them. That's why I know halfway through the video the dude stopped blocking altogether, and his blocks in the first half were largely superfluous in the first place. That's why I know, and anyone else that watches that video will know, the dude used the same six second attack cycle in the first half and same five second attack cycles in the second half. That video shows a guy rotating the same attack over and over to achieve victory against random players. The complete antithesis to what you are attempting to claim.

    As I said as well, I'm perfectly willing to entertain your petty "fight me bro" nonsense if it will appease you, but no level of insanity can make it sound more reasonable than sampling across a variety of players in the game would be as compared to one person's angsty grudge match. Logic proves you wrong, I don't have to.

    Your hyperbole only goes to exemplify this point. The "same basic mechanics" are not existent across all games, and I never claimed they were. However, the fundamental mechanics found in the likes mentioned before with active combat systems using attacks, combos, counters, blocks, heavy strikes and block breaks, etc are a common toolkit shared across those titles. That is different from the likes of a title like WoW or GW2 even just as it's different from most shooters and so on. You trying to rip a comment out of context and spout nonsense just because you're angry about god knows what at this point does not make for intelligent or reasonable conversation.

    "Call me out" as much as you want, You've only managed to prove your own lack of insight into these games, it does not change the facts. If you really like the game this much then enjoy it for what it is, you don't have to make stuff up as to why you like it.
    I know that somehow you believe that in you have some kind of grasp (that you don't) over what the mechanics are, and that you somehow believe that what I'm doing is trying to "fight you" but that isn't even the case.  Its very simple to see the exact differences in each game when you're playing them, and NO, the DCUO video I showed had several fights... many of which BOTH opponents constantly block and you can tell very easily when they do simply because when an active block works you get knocked down.  Here's just a quick look at each fight, many of which last less than a minute:

    1:34 block, stun break
    1:46 successful block of lunge
    2:18 successful block break and opponent used stun break
    2:23 successful combo stun, oppoenent had stun immunity
    2:50 successful stun block
    2:53 successful stun block
    3:00 successful combo break.

    And the reason you see him using the same ability is because in this particular video he was showing the Ice Tank reflect ability, which mitigates damage and reflects it back at an opponent, so it's really all you need, but you can see other opponents using a lot of different abilities.

    And it keeps going.  In every single fight blocking is actively used multiple times, so are block breaks. 

    This is what you're not understanding,  these aren't abilities you're using, these are part of combo strings.  

    How many games have inherent abilities that every character has that works in a rock-paper-scissors fashion?

    When you block on CO, can EVERYONE break that block with a combo?  

    Can you dodge on CO (not an evasion stat, an actual dodge) negating damage from block breaks and regular combos?

    Can you counter dodging simply by attacking with a lunge stun (that everyone has)?

    Can you negate an attack completely (not just mitigate a portion of damage) and open up the ability to counterattack simply by blocking the right attack at the right time?

    Can you string a single combo chain more than 11 times utilizing only one type weapon attack? Chaining through stuns, to block breaks, to evasion counters?  (notice - we're talking about a combo chain, not just sequential attack chaining, like spamming the 1 key over and over again, as in DCUO sequential attack chains can easily be done well over 100 times, and I've personally completed a combo of over 200 sequential times - though you only get an achievement for doing a 100 sequential combo).

    This is what makes DCUO more based around fighting games and CO is based around CoH, because CO utilizes power trees for all base damage.  It requires you to choose abilities, many of which DON'T chain more than 3 times IF you're lucky.  Those chains also are irrespective of ANYTHING going on from the opponent.  They could be blocking, it just mitigates some of the damage, it doesn't change anything else.  

    In CO SOME abilities can negate blocks,  SOME... and that just puts you in a position where you CAN'T use a block, because blocks aren't a necessary combat mechanic anyway, and simply watching the CO video you can see that,  the majority of the battle (which is sped up significantly) is jumping around spamming the same abilities with zero combos initiated or blocking required.

    I've put together quite a bit of actual information, and we can get in game as early as tomorrow if you still don't understand.  

    When DCUO came out, I wrote a guide for the combat system on this site, and when CO launched I did a very thorough review of that game and it's combat.  I'm very aware of exactly how both combat systems work in detail.  






  • DabOnThemDabOnThem Member UncommonPosts: 72
    DCUO does not have the best combat system out there in an MMO, PSO2 is vastly superior, DC feels clunky, choppy and unresponsive at times.
  • maskedweaselmaskedweasel houston, TXMember RarePosts: 9,220
    DabOnThem said:
    DCUO does not have the best combat system out there in an MMO, PSO2 is vastly superior, DC feels clunky, choppy and unresponsive at times.
    I haven't played PSO2, but I will say that PSU was one of my favorite games and is much more similar to DCUO than most other games. 



  • LimnicLimnic Member UncommonPosts: 113
    edited January 4
    I know that...
    Seven and a half minutes. In that time, all the blocks that took place were in the first half of that video. All the ones you quoted as being blocks for example. On top of that, most of those blocks I again would reiterate were meaningless because half the time he was blocking while the person was already knocked down on the ground. This has now wasted well more than seven and a half minutes of my life dealing with horrendously trivial nonsense.

    And yes, anyone can break a block in CO. CO is also based around the Hero System and utilized what Cryptic had referred to as an arcade-styled combat system in development.

    This pointless rant and continued insistence that "fight me bro" is somehow a worthwhile proof of anything is nothing short of inane. You want to met up in game about something, I'm still fine with that, but I am under no delusion that doing so will do anything useful as compared to you actually going around to a variety of players and sampling many possible play styles present in any of the given games.

    You've now gone from arguing semantics into a epic waste of time, pushing towards a repetition things that were already explained prior. I don't care what opinions you wrote up whenever, your opinion is not of interest to me. Stop trying to over-fluff everything just because it's a game you enjoy. Just enjoy the damn game for what it is.

    EDIT: If you want to argue something more reasonable, like the two year gap allowed time for DCUO to evolve the mechanics, then I might actually agree with you. But the claim that they don't have the same root mechanics or styling to the gameplay is notably false.

    And there's plenty of very real reasons for this if one wants to get into a conversation of factual matters, as we can then talk about the issues of games like CO which were very rushed in their release and subsequently their implementation of features, as opposed to titles like DCUO which had the time to refine things, but then that drifts into an entirely different form of discussion since it departs from the point that was being made.
    Post edited by Limnic on
  • maskedweaselmaskedweasel houston, TXMember RarePosts: 9,220
    Limnic said:

    Seven and a half minutes. In that time, all the blocks that took place were in the first half of that video. All the ones you quoted as being blocks for example. 
    I enjoy the game for exactly what it is, and know what it is that I like about it which is the uniqueness of its combat system - unlike people like you that speak from clearly biased and ill-informed points of view.  

    You still don't seem to understand or grasp the basics of the combat mechanics, you've shown ZERO in terms of videos or points of proof to show how the games are similar, and try to mock that I showed only the first few minutes of the first few fights where blocks, stuns and more were made from weapon based, stringing combo skills  (whereas in the CO video, even on super speed you see less than 3 times any sort of block attempt, and you can see all the actual stat modifiers as it says *dodge* and *block* (albeit still with damage dealt because the game is based on defense and evasion stats and not nearly on skill like DCUO is).

    And for fun,  5:57 blocking being used -  6:00 block breaker knockback being used -  6:05 block being used to break a combo chain - 6:11 stun break and block break counter - 6:16 combo block breaker -  6:19 combo stun and stun breaker - 6:45 successful stun block.

    I would imagine you should be tired of being wrong,  I mean... either post the times of when CO had ANYTHING remotely similar, from the video - or choose one you like... but you won't find blocking creating any sort of combat advantage, nor will you find block breaks being used, or stun skills coming from weapon combos instead of abilities because CO doesn't have them.  

    They have modifiers on the same reskinned powers...  so either show something or stop arguing a point you have no data to back up.  Oh, and btw, I'm still completely fine with showing you first hand. Tomorrow works for me.   I always like teaching people new things, and it sounds like you'd really like to learn seeing as how you're basing your opinion on ignorance and misunderstanding. 




  • LimnicLimnic Member UncommonPosts: 113
    edited January 4
    Again, claim what you want, I watched that video too and you can makeup anything you wish, but we can see what's really there. Just going and clicking to those times gives me exactly what we've already seen, the same cycle of animations.

    I'm in CO right now playing with the abilities of one of my chars even. The fact that my block is modified on this particular char to operate as an energy builder for example is one of the rather handy functions it can be used for in that game.

    You saying someone is wrong does not make reality change to fit your whim. And this is yet more time of mine you've wasted.

    So I would reiterate; If you want to argue something more reasonable, like the two year gap allowed time for DCUO to evolve the mechanics, then I might actually agree with you. But the claim that they don't have the same root mechanics or styling to the gameplay is notably false.

    EDIT: And now swapping to DCUO to check my chars there. See wazzup with my rage tank. Interesting to note though that in the short time I was in champs, I watched three different duels where players all used their blocks and even a couple takedowns.

    It's again to the point, the best you can argue is that DCUO is an evolution of the same mechanics. It's not without plenty of titles as already noted which possess the same core functionality, though varied in feel and depth on implementation.

    EDIT2: Y'know, I forgot Vindictus as well, granted it's not quite an MMO. Black Desert uses some base combo mechanics and even integrates all class abilities into it so you don't even need to use the hotbar for your skills. Plus Onigiri, which is another that uses active block, dodge, and breaks in basic attack combos alongside skill combo systems.

    Point again being, more and more, this game is not unique in this regard. As much as you want it to be apparently, there is a multitude of titles that share these arcade and action-oriented gameplay mechanics in the MMO sphere already. That you enjoy the way they tweaked about DCUO in particular should be good enough, there's no need to perpetually overblow the reality of this.
    Post edited by Limnic on
  • maskedweaselmaskedweasel houston, TXMember RarePosts: 9,220
    Limnic said:
    Again, claim what you want, I watched that video too and you can makeup anything you wish, but we can see what's really there. Just going and clicking to those times gives me exactly what we've already seen, the same cycle of animations.

    I'm in CO right now playing with the abilities of one of my chars even. The fact that my block is modified on this particular char to operate as an energy builder for example is one of the rather handy functions it can be used for in that game.

    You saying someone is wrong does not make reality change to fit your whim. And this is yet more time of mine you've wasted.
    LOL "the fact my block is modified on this particular char to operate as an energy builder for example is one of the rather handy functions it can be used for in that game"  it's modified because it serves little purpose otherwise.  People don't use them, and if you were honest you'd admit that you don't use them either -- but at least now I know the reason behind why you're trying to trivialize DCUOs combat,  you're a CO fanboy.  It's okay to like CO, you can check my profile and see pictures of when I used to play it.   It's a very outdated attempt at action combat, but its still an okay game.

    Just let it be what it is,  DCUO is more of a fighting game.  Just like on a game like street fighter, the animations for weapon skills are similarly used, but the powers are different.    Since you don't know what you're looking for though, it's easy to lump the animations together, but for someone that knows whats going on in combat, each move has a purpose.  

    CO is fine,  just enjoy your game for what it is,  you don't need to try to trivialize another game because you're insecure about yours.  


    It doesn't take a genius to see that you're wrong, at least on many of these things, especially when you said that " all the blocks that took place were in the first half of that video"  when I clearly showed that blocks were used even in the last fight of the video which happened at 6:45.  

    Troll DCUO if you want to troll DCUO, thats fine, but I'm always happy to show when you're wrong.  It was fun to do so.



  • LimnicLimnic Member UncommonPosts: 113
    edited January 4
    Actually I used block a lot on that char because it's a stop-gap for the aggro I get as a hybrid healer in that game.

    Also, I'm not actually a Champs fan at all. Only part I find interesting of it is the character creator, and even that pert of it is stifled by Cryptic's incomplete engine and poor rendering quality. As far as play time, I hadn't logged in prior to today in a bit over a year and a half. I logged in specifically to double-check things you wished to claim and address the reality of the matter.

    But here we are, with you declaring "fanboy", after we've now had almost a page and a half of you vehemently making absurd claims about a game.

    You made claims, I pointed out where they were wrong. We've given examples of many games that have the same core combat mechanics, and you've focused in on one as a whipping boy for your disdain. You proved yourself wrong with the evidence you've posted alongside the absurdity of these arguments.

    And to restate something you probably missed;

    "If you want to argue something more reasonable, like the two year gap allowed time for DCUO to evolve the mechanics, then I might actually agree with you. But the claim that they don't have the same root mechanics or styling to the gameplay is notably false."

    "Y'know, I forgot Vindictus as well, granted it's not quite an MMO. Black Desert uses some base combo mechanics and even integrates all class abilities into it so you don't even need to use the hotbar for your skills. Plus Onigiri, which is another that uses active block, dodge, and breaks in basic attack combos alongside skill combo systems.

    Point again being, more and more, this game is not unique in this regard. As much as you want it to be apparently, there is a multitude of titles that share these arcade and action-oriented gameplay mechanics in the MMO sphere already. That you enjoy the way they tweaked about DCUO in particular should be good enough, there's no need to perpetually overblow the reality of this."

    Also the previously mentioned Dragon Nest, which has a heavy focus on combo system and a buncha defensive and offensive combo breaks and takedowns built into it's basic combat.

    Decided to drop the taunt because that was childish of me, and I don't need to be swinging the same nonsense that you've been taunting with. You wasting my time is already annoying enough.
    Post edited by Limnic on
  • maskedweaselmaskedweasel houston, TXMember RarePosts: 9,220
    Limnic said:
    Actually I used block a lot on that char because it's a stop-gap for the aggro I get as a hybrid healer in that game.

    Also, I'm not actually a Champs fan at all. Only part I find interesting of it is the character creator, and even that pert of it is stifled by Cryptic's incomplete engine and poor rendering quality. As far as play time, I hadn't logged in prior to today in a bit over a year and a half. I logged in specifically to double-check things you wished to claim and address the reality of the matter.

    But here we are, with you declaring "fanboy", after we've now had almost a page and a half of you vehemently making absurd claims about a game.

    You made claims, I pointed out where they were wrong. We've given examples of many games that have the same core combat mechanics, and you've focused in on one as a whipping boy for your disdain. You proved yourself wrong with the evidence you've posted alongside the absurdity of these arguments.

    And to restate something you probably missed;

    "If you want to argue something more reasonable, like the two year gap allowed time for DCUO to evolve the mechanics, then I might actually agree with you. But the claim that they don't have the same root mechanics or styling to the gameplay is notably false."

    "Y'know, I forgot Vindictus as well, granted it's not quite an MMO. Black Desert uses some base combo mechanics and even integrates all class abilities into it so you don't even need to use the hotbar for your skills. Plus Onigiri, which is another that uses active block, dodge, and breaks in basic attack combos alongside skill combo systems.

    Point again being, more and more, this game is not unique in this regard. As much as you want it to be apparently, there is a multitude of titles that share these arcade and action-oriented gameplay mechanics in the MMO sphere already. That you enjoy the way they tweaked about DCUO in particular should be good enough, there's no need to perpetually overblow the reality of this."

    I guess good for you if you think this is fun. Ignorance must truly be bliss after all. Are you done so you can go back and enjoy your game and I can play D3 (in DCUO presently though) without pondering if there's an angry kid ranting about snowflakes? Or am I to take it you're the black knight in that sig of yours?
     I also tried invictus, it isn't nearly as comprehensive, it's closer to the older PSU, and no, you named dozens of games... not a single one did you show how they were similar, because simply put you don't know how the mechanics work.  

    That's really what it boils down to.. you're basing that games are similar if they have a block feature, even if you don't understand the root of how the mechanics work.

    Like if Street Fighter and Devil May Cry are considered similar games because they use the same basic animations.

    If you want to break it down by the most basic elements then any game can be likened to anything else.  The fact of the matter is the mechanics are what make the game, and DCUO has very specific fighting mechanics  none of the other games you've specifically mentioned USE in an MMO SETTING.  Simple as that.  Show me some videos that prove that wrong. SHOW me something because you're word is meaningless.

    In fact, just answer me one question.. in the video I showed for DCUO did they use the block in every single fight even up until the last minute or were "all the blocks that took place were in the first half of that video"?   



  • LimnicLimnic Member UncommonPosts: 113
    There you go with hyperbole and non-sequitur logic again.

    No, the argument is based on games which display active blocking, dodging, block breaks/takedowns, and combo systems to utilize with said mechanics. It's a suite of core combat features characterizing a more arcade and brawler type action games.

    The same reasons you don't categorize a game like Street Fighter and Devil May Cry together are still in play here, and it's much more in line as consequence with comparing the likes of DMC to Bayonetta or another open space action brawler. Similar core mechanics utilizing a few unique gimmicks and implementations of said features.

    You are basing this argument around an all-or-nothing mentality that has no place in logical discussion. Like if I am to answer your question, I could pour over that video again and waste another seven and a half minutes on top of this dialogue to restate the point that the person's blocking in that video was for the most part pointless and that the most variety was displayed by the opponents who lost the the guy spamming the same attack chains. I wasn't here to criticize this game though, you simply posted a bad video. A petty grudge about someone not thinking as much of this game as you do is nothing short of a waste of time.

    "That's what it really boils down to",
    my only point was that this game does not exist in a vacuum as some peerless design. It's one of many sharing such features and combat mechanics. That's not an insult to say, and you have every right to prefer DCUO's particular implementation over any other. Claiming the nonfactual and overblowing things however as if it were truth, is where I stand in disagreement with you.
  • maskedweaselmaskedweasel houston, TXMember RarePosts: 9,220
    Limnic said:
    There you go with hyperbole and non-sequitur logic again.

    No, the argument is based on games which display active blocking, dodging, block breaks/takedowns, and combo systems to utilize with said mechanics. It's a suite of core combat features characterizing a more arcade and brawler type action games.

    The same reasons you don't categorize a game like Street Fighter and Devil May Cry together are still in play here, and it's much more in line as consequence with comparing the likes of DMC to Bayonetta or another open space action brawler. Similar core mechanics utilizing a few unique gimmicks and implementations of said features.

    You are basing this argument around an all-or-nothing mentality that has no place in logical discussion. Like if I am to answer your question, I could pour over that video again and waste another seven and a half minutes on top of this dialogue to restate the point that the person's blocking in that video was for the most part pointless and that the most variety was displayed by the opponents who lost the the guy spamming the same attack chains. I wasn't here to criticize this game though, you simply posted a bad video. A petty grudge about someone not thinking as much of this game as you do is nothing short of a waste of time.

    "That's what it really boils down to",
    my only point was that this game does not exist in a vacuum as some peerless design. It's one of many sharing such features and combat mechanics. That's not an insult to say, and you have every right to prefer DCUO's particular implementation over any other. Claiming the nonfactual and overblowing things however as if it were truth, is where I stand in disagreement with you.
    So I said "just answer me one question" - "just answer me one question.. in the video I showed for DCUO did they use the block in every single fight even up until the last minute or were "all the blocks that took place were in the first half of that video"?"

    So answer the question, either you were wrong or I was.  Which is it?  

    Understand this question is very telling.  Especially when it comes to hyperbole, misleading information and outright lying.  So answer the question so I can tell whether or not I'm dealing with a real person or just the run of the mill troll.  

    It's also important in the sense that you understand the game mechanics,  because if you keep to your stance that all the blocking was in the beginning of the video and not throughout the entirety and that you think the blocking doesn't matter at all, then its clear you're just showing your bias and ignorance of how the combat actually works.  

    So answer the question.  



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