How do you fail faster and harder? Do you run head first into a brick wall or is said brick wall dropped on your head? From what I can tell, even the worst MMO can take years to "die".
Innovations mostly lead to fall, because people claim they can't get used to it, besides the older stuff was better.
A clone will might fall as well, because the players claim, they had already seen everything in another game, and this one doesn't bring anything new into the genre.
At the other hand the 29th clone of something from the past, has way better chances of finding new audience, or players who are fine with just a different story and better/different graphics, than something that trys to innovate. Sure, there are exceptions, but not many. These games either end up with a HC die hard fanbase like EVE, or just simply get to shutdown like Tabula Rasa (Though there were a lot other reason as well, for further info look up NC's 2007 Q4 report).
If we could say they are failing, i believe it's because the playerbase is divided into 999 mmorpg and there is a new title every day. Or just simply fail to go by the good old recipe.
Awesome. Another MMO analyst, just what the world needed.
I skimmed most of the original post after seeing "failing harder and faster, etc, etc".
Most MMO's don't "fail", they are all limited successes with their own player bases of several 100k large, and are bringing in profits - if they weren't they'd actually shut down and there wouldn't be MMO's popping up like mushrooms all over the place.
Hint: business people don't copy something that will lose them money. They are very much against that concept. :P
All joking aside, even Wildstar with its rapidly dropping population probably has enough subs left to be profitable, and managed to recuperate a lot of the initial investment thanks to box sales.
A year from now it'll probably be stable and just one of many, with a few 100k players that are devoted to it. Nothing special, and certainly not a "WoWkiller" - but profitable nonetheless.
I don't like a certain game =/= failure.
My SWTOR referral link for those wanting to give the game a try. (Newbies get a welcome package while returning players get a few account upgrades to help with their preferred status.)
If we could say they are failing, i believe it's because the playerbase is divided into 999 mmorpg and there is a new title every day. Or just simply fail to go by the good old recipe.
Pretty much. There's such a ridiculous amount of MMOs out there right now that it gets mind-boggling.
In the old days you were lucky to have twenty of them around at the same time. Usually with a few really "big" titles like UO and EQ, and a bunch of smaller ones like Shadowbane, Asheron's Call, etc...
My SWTOR referral link for those wanting to give the game a try. (Newbies get a welcome package while returning players get a few account upgrades to help with their preferred status.)
Well there's a point wherein we could also blame the game holder/developer wherein such MMO's becomes Pay2Win and not to Play2Win anymore. In a point also wherein game companies become greedy with terms of monetary values and not on the quality of the game, they also left out small issues which became a conflict as time passes by. Just like Rohan, 3-4 years ago it was a great game wherein servers are almost full of players, balance contents, balance classes, No OP weapons and etc. But time passes by, it seems like its management forgot the word "quality" and server slowly dieing because of the said negative factors.
Since then, many had left the game, other classes were imbalance, OP weapons were released, Strong items that are OP were purchasable by Item Mall (well how about those who cannot afford that amount of RP's?). But then as of this 2014, game management is trying to bring back what had been lost on them by creating new server and balancing items out once again.
What happened to the genre is down to gaming studios chasing new markets. So what we thought of as a good MMO became irrelevant. It was what these bigger markets of players, first solo console players, then social media 'gamers' would want that became the determining factor in MMO design.
I think the short version of the original post is that nothing innovative is really coming out. Most of what is coming out has the "been there, done that feel."
Additionally the MMO player base 10 years ago was much easier to impress since even simple things like the WoW questing feature was a step up from very raw and prior MMOs like UO.
Also people are filling the need for multiplayer in other ways than the traditional big server MMO. MOBAs, FPS with better incorporated multiplay, mobile phone strategy games, pseudo online MMOs like GTA5, etc.
I think the short version of the original post is that nothing innovative is really coming out. Most of what is coming out has the "been there, done that feel."
Additionally the MMO player base 10 years ago was much easier to impress since even simple things like the WoW questing feature was a step up from very raw and prior MMOs like UO.
Also people are filling the need for multiplayer in other ways than the traditional big server MMO. MOBAs, FPS with better incorporated multiplay, mobile phone strategy games, pseudo online MMOs like GTA5, etc.
I agree with you. The expectations and tastes of players have advanced, but the games really haven't. The contrast makes for unhappy players and games that cycle quickly. I also think your comment about people connecting through many other sources is very insightful.
MMORPG players are often like Hobbits: They don't like Adventures
There don't seem to be that many falling that I sense. I see a lot going from mega hyped levels to lower hyped levels of population which results in many cases a sub based model to a F2P model. However, actually going out of business, there doesn't seem to be a flood.
I think at this point people know what they are. People who are competitive know that you can buy your way to victory and or just put a lot more time in than the next guy. Time sink and pay to win games take away from the competitive nature of gaming. When the competition is not about how skillful one is, then the games are pointless and that's where we are today with mmorpgs, mobas on the other hand remain viable for competition.
With the Unity game engine you can design your own MMO. Severe death penalty? Free for all PvP? No problem. This guy has designed a system to help you calls Orks.
With the Unity game engine you can design your own MMO. Severe death penalty? Free for all PvP? No problem. This guy has designed a system to help you calls Orks.
I believe there are too many mmo's now and it's spreading gamers too thin to keep a healthy population like games back in the day. If you look back at 2004, there were just a few big mmo's and the populations were healthy because we didn't have too many options like we have now. All you need to do is look at the game list on this site and you'll see what I mean. Even the king (WoW) is dwindling in numbers now.
Originally posted by Scot What happened to the genre is down to gaming studios chasing new markets. So what we thought of as a good MMO became irrelevant. It was what these bigger markets of players, first solo console players, then social media 'gamers' would want that became the determining factor in MMO design.
It is not irrelevant to you as a way to decide what games to play, and not to play.
It is irrelevant to the devs, if they don't care about your kind of players.
It is a free market, devs can chase whatever players they want.
Originally posted by Scot What happened to the genre is down to gaming studios chasing new markets. So what we thought of as a good MMO became irrelevant. It was what these bigger markets of players, first solo console players, then social media 'gamers' would want that became the determining factor in MMO design.
It is not irrelevant to you as a way to decide what games to play, and not to play.
It is irrelevant to the devs, if they don't care about your kind of players.
It is a free market, devs can chase whatever players they want.
Quite so, but they continue to pretend the current batch of games they are calling MMOs uphold the principles that the first were founded on. But the easymode games of today do not.
There was a poster who talked about oversaturation, a perfectly good reason, there have been many factors and we have named most of them here.
Quite so, but they continue to pretend the current batch of games they are calling MMOs uphold the principles that the first were founded on. But the easymode games of today do not.
Who did that?
I am sure they try to distance themselves from the ancient first design. For example, many MMOs are using "solo-able" as the selling point, or stories, or mounts, ....
This is clearly opposite to the design of the first MMO (UO or EQ).
In fact, i think they are quite clear that they don't want to be those ancient games, and want something different (except may be EQN).
It is more accurate to say that they believe their games are evolved from MMOs, and now take over the mantel from the ancient MMOs.
Originally posted by Scot What happened to the genre is down to gaming studios chasing new markets. So what we thought of as a good MMO became irrelevant. It was what these bigger markets of players, first solo console players, then social media 'gamers' would want that became the determining factor in MMO design.
It is not irrelevant to you as a way to decide what games to play, and not to play.
It is irrelevant to the devs, if they don't care about your kind of players.
It is a free market, devs can chase whatever players they want.
Quite so, but they continue to pretend the current batch of games they are calling MMOs uphold the principles that the first were founded on. But the easymode games of today do not.
There was a poster who talked about oversaturation, a perfectly good reason, there have been many factors and we have named most of them here.
The first MMORPGs weren't founded on a set of principles. There was no MMORPG Convention or Governing Party. If there was a principle, it was, "we can get a lot of people together who will pay us money if we let them play together".
To quote Richard Garriott when he built Ultima Online, "We had ... no idea what we were doing...". They never even expected to sell more than 50,000 copies of the game. Things were so rough, they even faced a class action lawsuit based on the kerfluffle surrounding the game's release. It was chaos. The idea that this stuff was founded on anything as coherent or stable as a set of principles is just silly.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
With the Unity game engine you can design your own MMO. Severe death penalty? Free for all PvP? No problem. This guy has designed a system to help you calls Orks.
My theory of why MMOs are dying out is that the young aren't joining MMOs. They are playing Minecraft or Steam games.
We will die out because we have no young.
I love that the banner across the top of the page is a couple of what looks like Weeble Wobbles with arms. That's some high end graphix right there, son! I'm still chuckling a little bit.
This is the Okashi RPG Kit for the Unity Engine. It's not so much an MMORPG kit though. The most notable missing aspect of the engine for making an MMORPG is any sort of networking information or information on setting up a server to run an MMORPG.
My daughter is young, and she's playing her first MMORPG starting a couple weeks ago. She's playing because her boyfriend and his friends were playing said MMORPG, and they are all young too. The Youth of America are playing MMORPGs, even if the overall population is getting older. Though, "dying" might be a bit of an overstatement considering that there are more games, more people and more money in the genre than ever before. Especially with the release of Destiny.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Comments
Someone just hit in right place lol .
People keep subbing they MMORPG account because they have friend to play with,
without playmate there are no reason to keep sub a MMORPG after a month or few cleaning.
btw , nowadays game maker only care about boxes sell , they don't ready care about the subs .
So after the number of subs drop , they will F2P like plan B.
They don't need to keep player base , they only need new players who will pay , play little and jump to another game (that they will make )
Yeah .. the new trend games (SP+MP) are more fun to me.
Either call them MMOs so MMOs can continue as a genre, or don't use the term anymore. I don't think i care either way.
My humble opinion is that.
Innovations mostly lead to fall, because people claim they can't get used to it, besides the older stuff was better.
A clone will might fall as well, because the players claim, they had already seen everything in another game, and this one doesn't bring anything new into the genre.
At the other hand the 29th clone of something from the past, has way better chances of finding new audience, or players who are fine with just a different story and better/different graphics, than something that trys to innovate. Sure, there are exceptions, but not many. These games either end up with a HC die hard fanbase like EVE, or just simply get to shutdown like Tabula Rasa (Though there were a lot other reason as well, for further info look up NC's 2007 Q4 report).
If we could say they are failing, i believe it's because the playerbase is divided into 999 mmorpg and there is a new title every day. Or just simply fail to go by the good old recipe.
Awesome. Another MMO analyst, just what the world needed.
I skimmed most of the original post after seeing "failing harder and faster, etc, etc".
Most MMO's don't "fail", they are all limited successes with their own player bases of several 100k large, and are bringing in profits - if they weren't they'd actually shut down and there wouldn't be MMO's popping up like mushrooms all over the place.
Hint: business people don't copy something that will lose them money. They are very much against that concept. :P
All joking aside, even Wildstar with its rapidly dropping population probably has enough subs left to be profitable, and managed to recuperate a lot of the initial investment thanks to box sales.
A year from now it'll probably be stable and just one of many, with a few 100k players that are devoted to it. Nothing special, and certainly not a "WoWkiller" - but profitable nonetheless.
I don't like a certain game =/= failure.
My SWTOR referral link for those wanting to give the game a try. (Newbies get a welcome package while returning players get a few account upgrades to help with their preferred status.)
https://www.ashesofcreation.com/ref/Callaron/
Pretty much. There's such a ridiculous amount of MMOs out there right now that it gets mind-boggling.
In the old days you were lucky to have twenty of them around at the same time. Usually with a few really "big" titles like UO and EQ, and a bunch of smaller ones like Shadowbane, Asheron's Call, etc...
My SWTOR referral link for those wanting to give the game a try. (Newbies get a welcome package while returning players get a few account upgrades to help with their preferred status.)
https://www.ashesofcreation.com/ref/Callaron/
nah .. "better" is subjective. Older stuff is no fun to me.
Well there's a point wherein we could also blame the game holder/developer wherein such MMO's becomes Pay2Win and not to Play2Win anymore. In a point also wherein game companies become greedy with terms of monetary values and not on the quality of the game, they also left out small issues which became a conflict as time passes by. Just like Rohan, 3-4 years ago it was a great game wherein servers are almost full of players, balance contents, balance classes, No OP weapons and etc. But time passes by, it seems like its management forgot the word "quality" and server slowly dieing because of the said negative factors.
Since then, many had left the game, other classes were imbalance, OP weapons were released, Strong items that are OP were purchasable by Item Mall (well how about those who cannot afford that amount of RP's?). But then as of this 2014, game management is trying to bring back what had been lost on them by creating new server and balancing items out once again.
I think the short version of the original post is that nothing innovative is really coming out. Most of what is coming out has the "been there, done that feel."
Additionally the MMO player base 10 years ago was much easier to impress since even simple things like the WoW questing feature was a step up from very raw and prior MMOs like UO.
Also people are filling the need for multiplayer in other ways than the traditional big server MMO. MOBAs, FPS with better incorporated multiplay, mobile phone strategy games, pseudo online MMOs like GTA5, etc.
I agree with you. The expectations and tastes of players have advanced, but the games really haven't. The contrast makes for unhappy players and games that cycle quickly. I also think your comment about people connecting through many other sources is very insightful.
Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.
I self identify as a monkey.
With the Unity game engine you can design your own MMO. Severe death penalty? Free for all PvP? No problem. This guy has designed a system to help you calls Orks.
http://orkframework.com
Unity is free but Orks cost like $50.
My theory of why MMOs are dying out is that the young aren't joining MMOs. They are playing Minecraft or Steam games.
We will die out because we have no young.
http://gnomophobia.com
So we need to procreate?
Here's my theory:
I believe there are too many mmo's now and it's spreading gamers too thin to keep a healthy population like games back in the day. If you look back at 2004, there were just a few big mmo's and the populations were healthy because we didn't have too many options like we have now. All you need to do is look at the game list on this site and you'll see what I mean. Even the king (WoW) is dwindling in numbers now.
It is not irrelevant to you as a way to decide what games to play, and not to play.
It is irrelevant to the devs, if they don't care about your kind of players.
It is a free market, devs can chase whatever players they want.
Quite so, but they continue to pretend the current batch of games they are calling MMOs uphold the principles that the first were founded on. But the easymode games of today do not.
There was a poster who talked about oversaturation, a perfectly good reason, there have been many factors and we have named most of them here.
Who did that?
I am sure they try to distance themselves from the ancient first design. For example, many MMOs are using "solo-able" as the selling point, or stories, or mounts, ....
This is clearly opposite to the design of the first MMO (UO or EQ).
In fact, i think they are quite clear that they don't want to be those ancient games, and want something different (except may be EQN).
It is more accurate to say that they believe their games are evolved from MMOs, and now take over the mantel from the ancient MMOs.
The first MMORPGs weren't founded on a set of principles. There was no MMORPG Convention or Governing Party. If there was a principle, it was, "we can get a lot of people together who will pay us money if we let them play together".
To quote Richard Garriott when he built Ultima Online, "We had ... no idea what we were doing...". They never even expected to sell more than 50,000 copies of the game. Things were so rough, they even faced a class action lawsuit based on the kerfluffle surrounding the game's release. It was chaos. The idea that this stuff was founded on anything as coherent or stable as a set of principles is just silly.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
I love that the banner across the top of the page is a couple of what looks like Weeble Wobbles with arms. That's some high end graphix right there, son! I'm still chuckling a little bit.
This is the Okashi RPG Kit for the Unity Engine. It's not so much an MMORPG kit though. The most notable missing aspect of the engine for making an MMORPG is any sort of networking information or information on setting up a server to run an MMORPG.
My daughter is young, and she's playing her first MMORPG starting a couple weeks ago. She's playing because her boyfriend and his friends were playing said MMORPG, and they are all young too. The Youth of America are playing MMORPGs, even if the overall population is getting older. Though, "dying" might be a bit of an overstatement considering that there are more games, more people and more money in the genre than ever before. Especially with the release of Destiny.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.