AS I write this my 85 hunter is going one on one standing doing nothing with a orc warrior beating on me in pve and he can't get me below 90% health. I just made it to panda land and I thought the game would get tougher. This is why Wow today is considered the lowest difficulty / easy mode.
This is why my wife and I might not buy the expansion it's become a game for kids. We hope Blizzard brings back some of the challenge in the expansion that is the only way we will buy it. I'm talking the leveling part of the game not end game raids.
Isn't it challenging enough? I see the message was last edited in 2008. That was arguably a good period of WoW. So how come?
leveling from 1 to 90 without dying once in PVE in like 1-2 days max.
And if that even is too difficult, why not just pull your wallet and buy a maxed character...
Raids are simple tank taunts, healer heals and dps spam 2-3 specials and stand out of aoe which are announced with bells and huge letters on screen through addons so even newb understands it, , do that for 5 minutes and the 100% scripted boss is dead and looted.
Think that might have to do with it.
"Raids are simple tank taunts, healer heals and dps spam 2-3 specials and stand out of aoe which are announced with bells and huge letters on screen through addons so even newb understands it"
i think you shouldn't play MMOs if you think that's what it's all a bout.
and, what we are discussing here with atm, is the LFR crowd, never seen a HC raid from the inside, and they never will.
"i completed LFR WOW too easy! hodor!"
"I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"
The year was 2009. Our guild was doing one of the easy and short raids. I don't remember which. A dps needed to leave and we are stuck a man short. I ask my warlock brother, who was also online but not part of the guild, to join in. He agrees.
Pull is delayed because he hasn't buffed up. Raid leader asks for a soul well so everyone can get a cookie. He asks, "What's a soul well?"
After some questions (luckily before the pull), we found out that even though he has a max level toon he has NEVER been in a group. He leveled from 1 - max using three spells. This is truth. Also, this was his main toon. One of 5 max level toons he had.
I hope that answers your question.
It does not not because PVE game play for leveling has NOTHING to do at all with raiding or end game. Nor has to do with soulwell. Wow is easy actually NOW when have been played for decade. And it is easy for OLD players. But yes, have been made SOLO FRIENDLY. And really love that. Would be impossible physically find enough of players for that incredible was world with all expansions for enforced group play. Which I deeply hate. I'm playing as many wow exactly for what it is. I have 21 maxed out alts, 1 will become before WOD. All my alliance alts are leveled to max before ever touching any instance. End game is left for ... well ... endgame, after I will be done enjoying leveling with questing. With horde however have been doing a lot of 5 man I admit. It was easy doing instances? Well, depend. If some raid ready tank join group of course is just run through. As there is low limit for equpiment there sould be upper limit. That is only part that is wrong with wow.
Most people that argue that WoW is still challenging usually refer to a part of the endgame content such as heroics while ignoring the changes that have been made to the rest of the game over the years .
Even Vanilla WoW when it was released was ridiculously easy compared to everything else. I'm quite sure "faceroll" originated with WoW, and it aptly describes the ease to which one can play through the majority of the game's content.
As a side note, WoW was the first MMO I ever finished.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Originally posted by eqravenprince Coming from original everquest, I had a character that I had put in over 1000 hours and still had only gotten to level 51 out of 60 levels at the time. I could level 8 WoW characters to max level in that time. I still hadn't seen more than 70% of the game. Wow is a joke of a challenge compared to original EQ. In EQ, if you weren't in the top guild, you might not even see the top raid targets. Wow let's everyone go raid at whatever time they want and die as many times as they want with no punishment. Nothing wrong with casual games as long as they are fun. And Wow is fun to a lot of people just not me.
EQ would make modern mmo players cry. Most would quit in frustration after they died a few times in the newbie area.
I'm an old school MMO gamer, and EQ still makes me cry. :'(
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
1. Anyone who says that Heroic raiding is easy, is either lying (because they've never tried it) or one of top tier players in the world. Even Heroic raiding guilds will tell you it's hard.
2. Go look on wowprogress.com. You will notice that the majority of SERVERS have not completed Heroic SoO still, and it's coming up on a year since it launched.
3. I have completed Heroic SoO, and it is not easy, even as a 585 Paladin Tank, and all other members being 578-585
Defeating Heroic Garrosh will be in my top moments of over 20 years of playing MMOs/MUDs, because it was such a challenge.
Well, considering that the OP kinda misread the explanation for the intended use of the word 'Difficulty' , I'm still not surprised at how the thread became an 'endgame' debate.
Vanilla WoW was longer to reach max lvl sure. Now you have Heirlooms, recruit-a-friend bonus, more walk-throughs than there are subscribers (j/k), etc.
I remember the raid content in vanilla, the attunement quest chain just to access Onyxia's Lair had me running around and let's not forget the pally and 'lock chain for their mounts.
I think it was a timesink more than anything but it was new, and fun to do. I mean Onyxia was first downed in Jan '05, it's not like it was that far from launch.
The 40 man raids were a little difficult but not from the game. It was trying to get a concerted effort from all those players at ince that was the challenge. Once you got a good raid, it went by easily and the grind for your tier 2 was up and running. The drop rate was another issue though. lol
Originally posted by jusomdude If ~99% of the population that plays the game can't finish the heroic content... the game isn't easy. I bet most people that call WoW easy haven't finished the heroic content.
Is that the same heroic content that requires a player to watch "How to" videos before setting foot in the content? What is so "hard" about copying what other players do? I would agree that the raids themselves are hard, if a player had to actually figure them out on their own.
Maybe 99% of the players have no desire to copy what other players do and just skip the whole content? I certainly had no desire to.
Also, you talk about 1% of the population taking part in what percentage of the WHOLE game?
WoW is labeled "easy" because, it is. Players are directed to quest givers, quests are easy to accomplish, if a player happens to fail (die), it costs them some silver and a little run back to where they were. Heck, most players do not even take the time to read quest dialogue because it is all neatly outlined in their quest trackers.
Raiding. So many add-ons take ANY difficulty out of the raids. Boss attack indicators/timers, one button party healing, and other such take any difficulty the raids may have had. Attack indicator shapes on the ground on its own is the very essence of "easy."
Originally posted by jusomdude Pretty much all the things you listed don't make the game any more difficult, but are more quality of life changes.
Quality of life IS easy mode. Name one improvement in quality of life that does not make life easier.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
Originally posted by jusomdude Lol at people saying the game is easy because of leveling content... That content is made easy on purpose. If leveling was hard, barely anyone would play past the first 20 levels.
If I recall Wow had around 11 million accounts back in TBC when leveling was challenging and longer to level. I would say it's safe to say your wrong people do like more of a challenge.
Leveling in wow was never challenging. More time consuming yes, but not challenging.
For one anecdotal experience, when my first Night Elf Druid (2004) first had to fight his Moonkin, I had to get help. I had to fight lots Moonkins getting to the cave. I had to fight the Moonkin inside the cave. The last time I played a Night Elf Druid (2011), it was a walk in the park.
Then again, you may just be one of those "uber players" I hear so much about... (from their own mouths, usually.)
First, you point at one SMALL aspect of the game (heroic raiding) and decry, "Hard!" Now, you point to a BIGGER aspect of the same game and decry "EASY!" Which is it?
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
Originally posted by jusomdude If ~99% of the population that plays the game can't finish the heroic content... the game isn't easy. I bet most people that call WoW easy haven't finished the heroic content.
Yeah, it's ridiculous. Heroic WoW content is some of the most challenging content available today. With that said, the rest of the game is complete faceroll, which is where in I think the problem is. Someone who has never participated in a hard mode raid, logs in queues up for raid finder and eats a bowel of cheerios while completing the "raid" and getting loot and valor points.
WoW is a catch 22, if you play it like most play it, it's a joke. If you play it hardcore, it has to consume your life to succeed. I have raided in WoW in world top guilds and it was basically a second job. I have also played casually and the game itself seems a bit of a joke. I honestly think the issue with WoW is the gap in difficulty between Raid Finded and heroics.
The point of WoW isn't to hit level cap, it's to hit Item level cap. See how long it takes you to go from item level 1 to 589, then talk about difficulty... Been playing my paladin since MoP launched, just now hit 586...that's raiding every week
Originally posted by Gravarg The point of WoW isn't to hit level cap, it's to hit Item level cap. See how long it takes you to go from item level 1 to 589, then talk about difficulty... Been playing my paladin since MoP launched, just now hit 586...that's raiding every week
Hey look! Someone on this forum who knows what they're talking about!!
wow is the most easy mmo i played I palyed it for 8 years and at the time could got from 1-to max lv in 2 weeks no problem was a simple game i could run isntence on my pally tanking and healing at the same time i tell grps just sit back let me do this no prob at all compaired to other mmos wow is a simple game s a beginner mmo for children and parents to play together and it brings people into the mmo world
Getting to level cap was the point, but they change that to get into raids or heroics or rbg's or arena.
Now players just rush to end game to get into those instances. Again the Heroics are easy even real easy. Just get to timeless island, farm the chest there for your purples, then do some lfr to get better gear. Get into a guild and run some flex for even better gear. Then run your heroics. That easy. ( the only thing hard about heroics is the timed runs, because you need to be really geared to kill fast the mobs and boss to finish it in the time limit to get the best rewards).
If you have problem doing the heroics just look at youtube learn the encounters or read the dungeons journal to see what the boss do, make sure to follow tank and hit what he hits or follow the coding icons they put on mobs to know what to down first and make sure not to stand in crap.
That is why WoW is easy mode. Another thing to mention if you see people looking at websites like warcraftmoviez or the likes, don't trust the vids there, they are all fakes. They are made on private servers where the stats etc. can't be compared to the real thing. So don't credit them for there nice vids once they come to the live game they can't compete, they jsut get carry to higher brakets in pvp.
Market the game as easy, people flock to it in droves. Market the game as hard, people avoid it like the plague. For WoW, being called easy means more profits... and that's all they're interested in... profits.
Originally posted by jusomdude If ~99% of the population that plays the game can't finish the heroic content... the game isn't easy. I bet most people that call WoW easy haven't finished the heroic content.
It depends how you count. If you only count the hardest content then Wow is hard, if you make an average of all content on the other hand it is easy.
Few players can indeed complete all the content but everyone can complete the majority of it.
So you can say that Wow is very hard or very easy, both is true, all depending on how you see things.
When 99% of a game is easy(any game) and the final 1% is very hard, but that final 1% can be completed in easy mode, and that final 1% is also gradually nerfed over time then in balance you would not say the game is hard.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Comments
AS I write this my 85 hunter is going one on one standing doing nothing with a orc warrior beating on me in pve and he can't get me below 90% health. I just made it to panda land and I thought the game would get tougher.
This is why Wow today is considered the lowest difficulty / easy mode.
This is why my wife and I might not buy the expansion it's become a game for kids. We hope Blizzard brings back some of the challenge in the expansion that is the only way we will buy it. I'm talking the leveling part of the game not end game raids.
because its a dumbed down easy game.
Correct. It was the most casual MMO on the market at launched, and its been patched to remain so.
"Raids are simple tank taunts, healer heals and dps spam 2-3 specials and stand out of aoe which are announced with bells and huge letters on screen through addons so even newb understands it"
i think you shouldn't play MMOs if you think that's what it's all a bout.
and, what we are discussing here with atm, is the LFR crowd, never seen a HC raid from the inside, and they never will.
"i completed LFR WOW too easy! hodor!"
"I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"
It does not not because PVE game play for leveling has NOTHING to do at all with raiding or end game. Nor has to do with soulwell. Wow is easy actually NOW when have been played for decade. And it is easy for OLD players. But yes, have been made SOLO FRIENDLY. And really love that. Would be impossible physically find enough of players for that incredible was world with all expansions for enforced group play. Which I deeply hate. I'm playing as many wow exactly for what it is. I have 21 maxed out alts, 1 will become before WOD. All my alliance alts are leveled to max before ever touching any instance. End game is left for ... well ... endgame, after I will be done enjoying leveling with questing. With horde however have been doing a lot of 5 man I admit. It was easy doing instances? Well, depend. If some raid ready tank join group of course is just run through. As there is low limit for equpiment there sould be upper limit. That is only part that is wrong with wow.
Btw ... any1 checked his gear before start?
Even Vanilla WoW when it was released was ridiculously easy compared to everything else. I'm quite sure "faceroll" originated with WoW, and it aptly describes the ease to which one can play through the majority of the game's content.
As a side note, WoW was the first MMO I ever finished.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
I'm an old school MMO gamer, and EQ still makes me cry. :'(
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
More or less because even though the game does have difficult content, most of their content is easy.
compare to some of the sandbox games, the game is hard starting from level 1.
1. Anyone who says that Heroic raiding is easy, is either lying (because they've never tried it) or one of top tier players in the world. Even Heroic raiding guilds will tell you it's hard.
2. Go look on wowprogress.com. You will notice that the majority of SERVERS have not completed Heroic SoO still, and it's coming up on a year since it launched.
3. I have completed Heroic SoO, and it is not easy, even as a 585 Paladin Tank, and all other members being 578-585
Defeating Heroic Garrosh will be in my top moments of over 20 years of playing MMOs/MUDs, because it was such a challenge.
Well, considering that the OP kinda misread the explanation for the intended use of the word 'Difficulty' , I'm still not surprised at how the thread became an 'endgame' debate.
Vanilla WoW was longer to reach max lvl sure. Now you have Heirlooms, recruit-a-friend bonus, more walk-throughs than there are subscribers (j/k), etc.
I remember the raid content in vanilla, the attunement quest chain just to access Onyxia's Lair had me running around and let's not forget the pally and 'lock chain for their mounts.
I think it was a timesink more than anything but it was new, and fun to do. I mean Onyxia was first downed in Jan '05, it's not like it was that far from launch.
The 40 man raids were a little difficult but not from the game. It was trying to get a concerted effort from all those players at ince that was the challenge. Once you got a good raid, it went by easily and the grind for your tier 2 was up and running. The drop rate was another issue though. lol
Maybe 99% of the players have no desire to copy what other players do and just skip the whole content? I certainly had no desire to.
Also, you talk about 1% of the population taking part in what percentage of the WHOLE game?
WoW is labeled "easy" because, it is. Players are directed to quest givers, quests are easy to accomplish, if a player happens to fail (die), it costs them some silver and a little run back to where they were. Heck, most players do not even take the time to read quest dialogue because it is all neatly outlined in their quest trackers.
Raiding. So many add-ons take ANY difficulty out of the raids. Boss attack indicators/timers, one button party healing, and other such take any difficulty the raids may have had. Attack indicator shapes on the ground on its own is the very essence of "easy."
Quality of life IS easy mode. Name one improvement in quality of life that does not make life easier.- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
Then again, you may just be one of those "uber players" I hear so much about... (from their own mouths, usually.)
First, you point at one SMALL aspect of the game (heroic raiding) and decry, "Hard!" Now, you point to a BIGGER aspect of the same game and decry "EASY!" Which is it?
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
Played-Everything
Playing-LoL
Yeah, it's ridiculous. Heroic WoW content is some of the most challenging content available today. With that said, the rest of the game is complete faceroll, which is where in I think the problem is. Someone who has never participated in a hard mode raid, logs in queues up for raid finder and eats a bowel of cheerios while completing the "raid" and getting loot and valor points.
WoW is a catch 22, if you play it like most play it, it's a joke. If you play it hardcore, it has to consume your life to succeed. I have raided in WoW in world top guilds and it was basically a second job. I have also played casually and the game itself seems a bit of a joke. I honestly think the issue with WoW is the gap in difficulty between Raid Finded and heroics.
"This may hurt a little, but it's something you'll get used to. Relax....."
"This may hurt a little, but it's something you'll get used to. Relax....."
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Hey look! Someone on this forum who knows what they're talking about!!
Played-Everything
Playing-LoL
Getting to level cap is not the point of WoW. I don't even know why they have levels in WoW other than tradition.
http://gnomophobia.com
Getting to level cap was the point, but they change that to get into raids or heroics or rbg's or arena.
Now players just rush to end game to get into those instances. Again the Heroics are easy even real easy. Just get to timeless island, farm the chest there for your purples, then do some lfr to get better gear. Get into a guild and run some flex for even better gear. Then run your heroics. That easy. ( the only thing hard about heroics is the timed runs, because you need to be really geared to kill fast the mobs and boss to finish it in the time limit to get the best rewards).
If you have problem doing the heroics just look at youtube learn the encounters or read the dungeons journal to see what the boss do, make sure to follow tank and hit what he hits or follow the coding icons they put on mobs to know what to down first and make sure not to stand in crap.
That is why WoW is easy mode. Another thing to mention if you see people looking at websites like warcraftmoviez or the likes, don't trust the vids there, they are all fakes. They are made on private servers where the stats etc. can't be compared to the real thing. So don't credit them for there nice vids once they come to the live game they can't compete, they jsut get carry to higher brakets in pvp.
It depends how you count. If you only count the hardest content then Wow is hard, if you make an average of all content on the other hand it is easy.
Few players can indeed complete all the content but everyone can complete the majority of it.
So you can say that Wow is very hard or very easy, both is true, all depending on how you see things.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D