Every MMO has this problem. So they were either very unexperienced or very arrogant to believe that they would pull off something the others can't.
So I went with "They knew, but like the good publicity".
Yeah, same here.
For one, my understanding is that the team is largely, if not entirely, made up of people who've worked on other games, including MMOs, before. So, they're experienced developers. They know the drill.
They spent several years working on the game and, certainly, are aware of the time and effort required to conceive, design, produce, implement, test and successfully release new content. I can not believe it was a "surprise" to any of them that their proposed update schedule was unrealistic.
They were playing off the positive hype at the time, and now they're playing off the good-will of "Well, we really tried folks.. we really did because we want to give you the best possible bang for your buck! But, well, we just can't keep up that pace... But hey! We tried! We really really did!".
I don't doubt for a second that this has been orchestrated.
It seems like one of those situations where they overstated what they intended to deliver, so that when it came down to what they could actually do, it wouldn't seem as bad. Basically, if you can only deliver the moon, convince people you really want to give them the stars... This way, when the stars prove to be too ambitious.. the moon will seem more acceptable, because people believe you really wanted to give them more.
Just a way to influence and manage people's expectations, while coming out looking like "the good guys".
Now, here's the question. Do you think the Wildstar team knew they were going to fall behind, or do you think they really thought they would keep up the update a month pace?
They may have coding issues, but this would have been apparent during development. It is strictly a business decision to stop with the monthly updates, and my guess would be it is because there will be a reduction in staff.
Now, here's the question. Do you think the Wildstar team knew they were going to fall behind, or do you think they really thought they would keep up the update a month pace?
They may have coding issues, but this would have been apparent during development. It is strictly a business decision to stop with the monthly updates, and my guess would be it is because there will be a reduction in staff.
Considering majority of carbine devs are ex Blizzard. They should have known better.
I am starting to believe that all game devs live in their own bubble of reality and either fail or completely refuse to learn from so many examples around them in gaming industry.
It amazes me that these developers start out with the hopes of having a content patch every month but end up falling through. With their huge budgets and hundreds of employees! Asheron's Call had a tenth of the budget with a handful of developers and they released a monthly patch without fail for 14+ straight years.
Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!
Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!
Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!
Considering majority of carbine devs are ex Blizzard. They should have known better.
I am starting to believe that all game devs live in their own bubble of reality and either fail or completely refuse to learn from so many examples around them in gaming industry.
I would guess that WS is not meeting their expectations. They probably thought the player population would be much larger than it currently is. At a point they are forced to make a decision, keep at the current monthly pace and meet a quick end, or cut back and hopefully find a profitable state.
That isn't to say they didn't have unreasonable expectations, but I think WS did much perform much more poorly than expected.
At this point Wildstar is probably the biggest fail of the last 10 years of MMO history. Carbine wont say it, NCsoft wont say it, the playerbase wont say it but everyone knows it.
Im talking about AAA MMOs and WIldstar was sold as one of them. Warhammer, AoC were a disappointment at some point, but they sold a really good amount of copies at launch, and the population drop was significant just months after release, in Wildstar it was in less than a Month.
ESO?, they still have content updates each month, and even when the elder games is not that good and people quit once they hit the VR grind. ESO have a good population from level 1 to 50, and new players all the time. Wildstar doesnt have new players.
I think it is premature to say that. Especially when you go back 10 years!
As far as ESO goes though Zenimax have done the same - but managed it better. The cycle for content drops was every 4-6 weeks. Then they announced that new content would be every other cycle, so 8-12 weeks, to allow hem to work on bug fixes, balancing and so forth. And of course one of the big advantages of megaserver technology is there are no threads about under populated servers.
At the end of the day though I am not sure either game is in the running.
Originally posted by azzamasin It amazes me that these developers start out with the hopes of having a content patch every month but end up falling through. With their huge budgets and hundreds of employees! Asheron's Call had a tenth of the budget with a handful of developers and they released a monthly patch without fail for 14+ straight years.
I'm not sure it's fair to compare the type of content they make today to the type of content we saw over a decade ago. Games have grown to be a lot more complex on a design level.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I dont think they knew, honestly. They didnt exactly print it on the box so if it was for publicity they didnt really do a good job of getting it out there. Didnt really know that was an official goal and I followed the game pretty well since beta. Those guys have been optimistic from the start and obviously in over their heads, it makes sense that theyd think they can do monthly content, and they did, didnt they? It was just riddled with bugs which defeated the purpose and felt rushed.
Some of you seriously think theyd knowingly push out rushed bugged content just to say "Wow, new content in only 1 month!" Highly unlikely.
So yeah, I think its great that theyre slowing down at least to have more time to quality test the damned things before release! Hopefully this is the first of many smarter decisions over at Carbine and they can still save the game.
Comments
Yeah, same here.
For one, my understanding is that the team is largely, if not entirely, made up of people who've worked on other games, including MMOs, before. So, they're experienced developers. They know the drill.
They spent several years working on the game and, certainly, are aware of the time and effort required to conceive, design, produce, implement, test and successfully release new content. I can not believe it was a "surprise" to any of them that their proposed update schedule was unrealistic.
They were playing off the positive hype at the time, and now they're playing off the good-will of "Well, we really tried folks.. we really did because we want to give you the best possible bang for your buck! But, well, we just can't keep up that pace... But hey! We tried! We really really did!".
I don't doubt for a second that this has been orchestrated.
It seems like one of those situations where they overstated what they intended to deliver, so that when it came down to what they could actually do, it wouldn't seem as bad. Basically, if you can only deliver the moon, convince people you really want to give them the stars... This way, when the stars prove to be too ambitious.. the moon will seem more acceptable, because people believe you really wanted to give them more.
Just a way to influence and manage people's expectations, while coming out looking like "the good guys".
Cynical? Very. Plausible? Absolutely.
"They promised monthly updates because it was good marketing," is cynical.
"They promised monthly updates but they were too optimistic and now can't deliver," is not cynical.
I bet they thought they could do monthly updates but realized that it was impossible.
http://gnomophobia.com
They may have coding issues, but this would have been apparent during development. It is strictly a business decision to stop with the monthly updates, and my guess would be it is because there will be a reduction in staff.
Considering majority of carbine devs are ex Blizzard. They should have known better.
I am starting to believe that all game devs live in their own bubble of reality and either fail or completely refuse to learn from so many examples around them in gaming industry.
Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!
Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!
Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!
I would guess that WS is not meeting their expectations. They probably thought the player population would be much larger than it currently is. At a point they are forced to make a decision, keep at the current monthly pace and meet a quick end, or cut back and hopefully find a profitable state.
That isn't to say they didn't have unreasonable expectations, but I think WS did much perform much more poorly than expected.
I think it is premature to say that. Especially when you go back 10 years!
As far as ESO goes though Zenimax have done the same - but managed it better. The cycle for content drops was every 4-6 weeks. Then they announced that new content would be every other cycle, so 8-12 weeks, to allow hem to work on bug fixes, balancing and so forth. And of course one of the big advantages of megaserver technology is there are no threads about under populated servers.
At the end of the day though I am not sure either game is in the running.
I'm not sure it's fair to compare the type of content they make today to the type of content we saw over a decade ago. Games have grown to be a lot more complex on a design level.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Kind of sad, but ultimately good news, because the world did not need another WoW clone.
"What were they thinking?" is the question that should be in the investors' minds.
They were trying to beat something like WoW at its own game without taking into account how saturated the market became/has become.
I'm sorry, but Wildstar never had a chance. Not when there are dozens of quality alternatives.
This isn't 2004 where there are only a handful of games on the market each charging a subscription.
I hope companies and investors start realizing that before more money is wasted in such a manner.
I dont think they knew, honestly. They didnt exactly print it on the box so if it was for publicity they didnt really do a good job of getting it out there. Didnt really know that was an official goal and I followed the game pretty well since beta. Those guys have been optimistic from the start and obviously in over their heads, it makes sense that theyd think they can do monthly content, and they did, didnt they? It was just riddled with bugs which defeated the purpose and felt rushed.
Some of you seriously think theyd knowingly push out rushed bugged content just to say "Wow, new content in only 1 month!" Highly unlikely.
So yeah, I think its great that theyre slowing down at least to have more time to quality test the damned things before release! Hopefully this is the first of many smarter decisions over at Carbine and they can still save the game.