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Where is EQN?

Burdoc101Burdoc101 Fort Campbell, KYPosts: 281Member

I have been reading, rather skimming, through the recent posts discussing the new information set on by SOE live within this forum. It really struck me odd how some users seemed to ask where all the information for EQN was. While disappointing that there was not as much direct information given for EQN as most of us would have liked, or hoped for (…or alpha), there was still a ton of information given throughout the weekend from EQN panels and, also, from another source; Landmark panels.

 

As Dave Georgeson said in the beginning of the EQN keynote that “We are building it, we are building it in front of you and we’ve been doing it the entire time.” You can watch it here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MU6LzCBPlCU ; starts around 09:30. Landmark is the backbone for EQN. Everything being developed for Landmark will be re-used or tweaked for EQN and visa-versa.

 

Note, they are not the same game, but they will be using similar assets. Landmark is a “Genre Agnostic MMO” that, so far, leans slightly towards a more creative building world while EQN is more in line to the MMORPGs that we are used to with its “themed” content. (I put “themed” in quotes, because EQN is a sandbox title as well.)

 

I implore y’all to watch all the videos that you can find for both EQN and Landmark, because there is some really interesting and fun things to think about for the future of both titles. In my opinion the most anticipated and “best” video to watch for EQN content is the Story Bricks panel; and you can watch it here on Tenma’s youtube channel: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vBglgiadAIc&list=UUfTjlsIZ6hArzZSW3G0vtaA .  (The audio echoes, but the slides on the power point will say it all.) Tenma also has other videos posted as well from SOE live. Also, here is a link to Arcona’s thread with links to other sources: http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/419323/SOE-live-2014-panels.html .

 

To end, I will admit, and I believe we can all agree, that we won’t see an alpha for EQN for at least another year or two, or any direct information at least, because they are truly focused on completing Landmark first. I will throw a hypothesis out there for y’all to think about. With Landmark being the backbone, and while they polish it, the development team will be so experienced with working with the assets and fixing the bugs with the engine that it will make EQN have the best launch date out of any MMO to exist. Not saying it will happen, but it would be nice for once. 

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Comments

  • TorvalTorval Oregon CountryPosts: 7,214Member Uncommon
    I expect to see an alpha for EQN late winter or spring of next year.
  • Burdoc101Burdoc101 Fort Campbell, KYPosts: 281Member
    Originally posted by Torvaldr
    I expect to see an alpha for EQN late winter or spring of next year.

    Any solid leads or information? Don't make me beg, lol. 

  • DMKanoDMKano Gamercentral, AKPosts: 8,541Member Uncommon

    Without Landmark there is no EQNext - SoE has been clear about this from the start.

    SoE needs players to build assets for EQNext because that was their plan for Landmark.

    Get the tools out to the community, have style guidelines set (example Dark Elf city) and let players design it according to SoE guidelines.

     

    However that line about "EQNext has been in front of you the entire time in form of Landmark" was also followed later with "We've been really busy with Landmark" - which means 90% of their EQNext Dev was all focused on Landmark.

    So for the last year its all been mostly Landmark work - EQNext dev was minimal at best and it showed - dark elves and couple of classes thrown together in super rough state for the sake of SoE Live - shown in a video, not even playable.

    So again they've been working on Landmark as that is the building tool for EQNext.

    Actual work of EQNext *in my opinion* was minimal at best - I am not buying the 60% done line for one second.

    That to me sounds like pure damage control.

    Again all of this is 100% my opinion.

  • Storm_CloudStorm_Cloud MalmoPosts: 369Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Torvaldr
    I expect to see an alpha for EQN late winter or spring of next year.

    LOL!

    I wish I had your enthusiasm or should I call it dreams. :)

    To help relieve you of some of the disappointment, the game wont be out until sometime in 2016, and that would be alpha. Just like they did with Landmark.

    Everquest Next depends on Landmark, and, well, we all know how far Landmark has come. That should say something. :)

     

  • DMKanoDMKano Gamercentral, AKPosts: 8,541Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Torvaldr
    I expect to see an alpha for EQN late winter or spring of next year.

    Alpha for EQNext this year is completely out of the question, unless you're talking about internal SoE employee only alpha.

    Players won't get alpha acess to EQNext for a long time, I don't see it happening until SoE Live 2015.

  • NitthNitth AustraliaPosts: 3,684Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by DMKano
    Without Landmark there is no EQNext - SoE has been clear about this from the start.SoE needs players to build assets for EQNext because that was their plan for Landmark.Get the tools out to the community, have style guidelines set (example Dark Elf city) and let players design it according to SoE guidelines. However that line about "EQNext has been in front of you the entire time in form of Landmark" was also followed later with "We've been really busy with Landmark" - which means 90% of their EQNext Dev was all focused on Landmark.So for the last year its all been mostly Landmark work - EQNext dev was minimal at best and it showed - dark elves and couple of classes thrown together in super rough state for the sake of SoE Live - shown in a video, not even playable.So again they've been working on Landmark as that is the building tool for EQNext.Actual work of EQNext *in my opinion* was minimal at best - I am not buying the 60% done line for one second.That to me sounds like pure damage control.Again all of this is 100% my opinion.

    I think you over estimate how much gap there is between Landmark and EQN.

    Whats landmark? its an eqn without the "Scripted" content, butterfly effect ai and minor systems.

    Landmark is the bulk of EQN.

    image
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  • Gallus85Gallus85 Winter Park, FLPosts: 1,092Member
    Originally posted by Burdoc101

    I have been reading, rather skimming, through the recent posts discussing the new information set on by SOE live within this forum. It really struck me odd how some users seemed to ask where all the information for EQN was. While disappointing that there was not as much direct information given for EQN as most of us would have liked, or hoped for (…or alpha), there was still a ton of information given throughout the weekend from EQN panels and, also, from another source; Landmark panels.

     

    As Dave Georgeson said in the beginning of the EQN keynote that “We are building it, we are building it in front of you and we’ve been doing it the entire time.” You can watch it here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MU6LzCBPlCU ; starts around 09:30. Landmark is the backbone for EQN. Everything being developed for Landmark will be re-used or tweaked for EQN and visa-versa.

     

    Note, they are not the same game, but they will be using similar assets. Landmark is a “Genre Agnostic MMO” that, so far, leans slightly towards a more creative building world while EQN is more in line to the MMORPGs that we are used to with its “themed” content. (I put “themed” in quotes, because EQN is a sandbox title as well.)

     

    I implore y’all to watch all the videos that you can find for both EQN and Landmark, because there is some really interesting and fun things to think about for the future of both titles. In my opinion the most anticipated and “best” video to watch for EQN content is the Story Bricks panel; and you can watch it here on Tenma’s youtube channel: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vBglgiadAIc&list=UUfTjlsIZ6hArzZSW3G0vtaA .  (The audio echoes, but the slides on the power point will say it all.) Tenma also has other videos posted as well from SOE live. Also, here is a link to Arcona’s thread with links to other sources: http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/419323/SOE-live-2014-panels.html .

     

    To end, I will admit, and I believe we can all agree, that we won’t see an alpha for EQN for at least another year or two, or any direct information at least, because they are truly focused on completing Landmark first. I will throw a hypothesis out there for y’all to think about. With Landmark being the backbone, and while they polish it, the development team will be so experienced with working with the assets and fixing the bugs with the engine that it will make EQN have the best launch date out of any MMO to exist. Not saying it will happen, but it would be nice for once. 

    Dave said it's about 60% complete.  It won't be 100% complete when they first give us alpha access.  There will be a paid for alpha access sometime within the next 6 months, just like they did for Landmark.

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  • DMKanoDMKano Gamercentral, AKPosts: 8,541Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Nitth

     


    Originally posted by DMKano
    Without Landmark there is no EQNext - SoE has been clear about this from the start.

     

    SoE needs players to build assets for EQNext because that was their plan for Landmark.

    Get the tools out to the community, have style guidelines set (example Dark Elf city) and let players design it according to SoE guidelines.

     

    However that line about "EQNext has been in front of you the entire time in form of Landmark" was also followed later with "We've been really busy with Landmark" - which means 90% of their EQNext Dev was all focused on Landmark.

    So for the last year its all been mostly Landmark work - EQNext dev was minimal at best and it showed - dark elves and couple of classes thrown together in super rough state for the sake of SoE Live - shown in a video, not even playable.

    So again they've been working on Landmark as that is the building tool for EQNext.

    Actual work of EQNext *in my opinion* was minimal at best - I am not buying the 60% done line for one second.

    That to me sounds like pure damage control.

    Again all of this is 100% my opinion.


     

    I think you over estimate how much gap there is between Landmark and EQN.

    Whats landmark? its an eqn without the "Scripted" content, butterfly effect ai and minor systems.

    Landmark is the bulk of EQN.

     

    Oh man - no, EQNext is planned to have systems that currently do not exist in Landmark period.

     

    NPCs tied into Storybricks - HUGE part of EQnext and pretty major undertaking.

    Classes finished with all skill systems, animations, effects, sounds, voices.

    NPCs finished with animations, effects/sounds

    Spawn/pathing systems for NPCs - will have to tie into Storybricks as well

    Itemization for the entire game - massive undertaking from assets to graphics for each class

    Lore, stories, voiceovers (to whatever extent small or big) have to be done 

    Dynamic event systems - yeah massive undertaking

    Class balancing 

    PvP skill balancing

    Dungeon creation and placement within Voxels worlds

    How about scalability of max number of players per location in the world with destructible environment? What happens 200 players all start blowing stuff up at the same time?

    Client / Server performance tuning and optimization

    Console support (PS4)

    And that's is just the tip of the iceberg

     

    Yeah a shit ton of work that Landmark currently doesn't even touch.

     

  • Mandalorian2KMandalorian2K Jamestown, NYPosts: 2Member
    I think there is some misunderstanding occurring. Dave didn't say EQNext was 60% complete NOW, he said by the time Landmark hits open beta that Next would be about 60% done. From there he said they would be able to move more quickly to complete Next as the core would be in place. So EQNext is not 60% done atm, you may want to re-watch the interview.
  • TorvalTorval Oregon CountryPosts: 7,214Member Uncommon

    I don't have any leads or solid grounds for my speculation. I may be a little enthusiastic, but they've come a long way with Landmark in a relatively short period of time. Combat is being introduced into Landmark in 10 days. I can see the possibility of an EQN alpha of some sort before this time next year.

     

  • Gallus85Gallus85 Winter Park, FLPosts: 1,092Member
    Originally posted by DMKano

     

    Yeah a shit ton of work that Landmark currently doesn't even touch.

     

    You list a lot of things and assume they haven't already been working on these things for a long time now.  Every game dev knows tool creation and engine development is what takes the most time when creating a game.  Nothing you stated suggests they need more than year to finish up.  Especially for a large company like SOE that has a huge amount of money and resources at their disposal.  

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  • NitthNitth AustraliaPosts: 3,684Member Uncommon

    [quote]Originally posted by DMKano
    [b]


    Originally posted by Nitth  

    Originally posted by DMKano Without Landmark there is no EQNext - SoE has been clear about this from the start.   SoE needs players to build assets for EQNext because that was their plan for Landmark. Get the tools out to the community, have style guidelines set (example Dark Elf city) and let players design it according to SoE guidelines.   However that line about "EQNext has been in front of you the entire time in form of Landmark" was also followed later with "We've been really busy with Landmark" - which means 90% of their EQNext Dev was all focused on Landmark. So for the last year its all been mostly Landmark work - EQNext dev was minimal at best and it showed - dark elves and couple of classes thrown together in super rough state for the sake of SoE Live - shown in a video, not even playable. So again they've been working on Landmark as that is the building tool for EQNext. Actual work of EQNext *in my opinion* was minimal at best - I am not buying the 60% done line for one second. That to me sounds like pure damage control. Again all of this is 100% my opinion.
      I think you over estimate how much gap there is between Landmark and EQN. Whats landmark? its an eqn without the "Scripted" content, butterfly effect ai and minor systems. Landmark is the bulk of EQN.
     

    Oh man - no, EQNext is planned to have systems that currently do not exist in Landmark period.[/quote]

     


    NPCs tied into Storybricks - HUGE part of EQnext and pretty major undertaking.

    -I mentioned that.


    Classes finished with all skill systems, animations, effects, sounds, voices.

    NPCs finished with animations, effects/sounds
    -Most of these would of be completed as part of landmarks resource library.


    -Spawn/pathing systems for NPCs - will have to tie into Storybricks as well

    I mentioned this.


    Itemization for the entire game - massive undertaking from assets to graphics for each class

    -itemization and creation isn't as big a deal as you think, balancing is the issue.


    Lore, stories, voiceovers (to whatever extent small or big) have to be done

    -Concurrent development with landmark (they are making lore books as we speak)


    Dynamic event systems - yeah massive undertaking

    -mentioned this in op.


    Class balancing

    they have the tools already to start.


    PvP skill balancing

    -they can start this now with landmark pvp.


    Dungeon creation and placement within Voxels worlds

    -they can do this now with landmark.


    How about scalability of max number of players per location in the world with destructible environment? What happens 200 players all start blowing stuff up at the same time?

    -Why cant you use landmark to test this, they can test this now internally.


    Client / Server performance tuning and optimization

    -Concurrent development with / through landmark.


    Console support (PS4)

    Thats a forgelight issue, Its already got ps4 support.


    In short, Like dave said by the time landmark is at or near completion they would be about 60% done on EQN.

    Concurrent development is occurring in major engine systems regarding voxels, graphics, animations, music, sfx, physics, combat, scalablity. ect. And thats all happening right now with the development of landmark.

    image
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  • Gallus85Gallus85 Winter Park, FLPosts: 1,092Member
    Originally posted by Mandalorian2K
    I think there is some misunderstanding occurring. Dave didn't say EQNext was 60% complete NOW, he said by the time Landmark hits open beta that Next would be about 60% done. From there he said they would be able to move more quickly to complete Next as the core would be in place. So EQNext is not 60% done atm, you may want to re-watch the interview.

    I think you need to rewatch the video and open your ears.

    He states and I quote

    "We are 60% of the way complete with EverQuest Next".

    He goes on to say

    "When Landmark goes Open Beta, we'll be mostly feature complete for Everquest Next."

     

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  • Burdoc101Burdoc101 Fort Campbell, KYPosts: 281Member
    Originally posted by Gallus85
    Originally posted by DMKano

     

    Yeah a shit ton of work that Landmark currently doesn't even touch.

     

    You list a lot of things and assume they haven't already been working on these things for a long time now.  Every game dev knows tool creation and engine development is what takes the most time when creating a game.  Nothing you stated suggests they need more than year to finish up.  Especially for a large company like SOE that has a huge amount of money and resources at their disposal.  

     But they are creating two separate games; two separate MMO titles. So, I can only assume that both will take longer, because of manpower being split up.  I will say again that both are using the same/similar assets and that will be extremely useful to speed up production with Next once Landmark is finished.

  • Burdoc101Burdoc101 Fort Campbell, KYPosts: 281Member
    Originally posted by Gallus85
    Originally posted by Mandalorian2K
    I think there is some misunderstanding occurring. Dave didn't say EQNext was 60% complete NOW, he said by the time Landmark hits open beta that Next would be about 60% done. From there he said they would be able to move more quickly to complete Next as the core would be in place. So EQNext is not 60% done atm, you may want to re-watch the interview.

    I think you need to rewatch the video and open your ears.

    He states and I quote

    "We are 60% of the way complete with EverQuest Next".

    He goes on to say

    "When Landmark goes Open Beta, we'll be mostly feature complete for Everquest Next."

     

     

    Hey do you, or does anyone, have the link to this interview where Dave says this? I missed it or haven't watched it :-(. 

  • NitthNitth AustraliaPosts: 3,684Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by Burdoc101

    Originally posted by Gallus85

    Originally posted by Mandalorian2K I think there is some misunderstanding occurring. Dave didn't say EQNext was 60% complete NOW, he said by the time Landmark hits open beta that Next would be about 60% done. From there he said they would be able to move more quickly to complete Next as the core would be in place. So EQNext is not 60% done atm, you may want to re-watch the interview.
    I think you need to rewatch the video and open your ears. He states and I quote "We are 60% of the way complete with EverQuest Next". He goes on to say "When Landmark goes Open Beta, we'll be mostly feature complete for Everquest Next."  
     

    Hey do you, or does anyone, have the link to this interview where Dave says this? I missed it or haven't watched it :-(. 


    http://youtu.be/TtGfWgW5kDs?t=11m7s

    Edit: sorry, correct url now.

    image
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  • Burdoc101Burdoc101 Fort Campbell, KYPosts: 281Member
    Originally posted by DMKano

    Without Landmark there is no EQNext - SoE has been clear about this from the start.

    SoE needs players to build assets for EQNext because that was their plan for Landmark.

    Get the tools out to the community, have style guidelines set (example Dark Elf city) and let players design it according to SoE guidelines.

     

    However that line about "EQNext has been in front of you the entire time in form of Landmark" was also followed later with "We've been really busy with Landmark" - which means 90% of their EQNext Dev was all focused on Landmark.

    So for the last year its all been mostly Landmark work - EQNext dev was minimal at best and it showed - dark elves and couple of classes thrown together in super rough state for the sake of SoE Live - shown in a video, not even playable.

    So again they've been working on Landmark as that is the building tool for EQNext.

    Actual work of EQNext *in my opinion* was minimal at best - I am not buying the 60% done line for one second.

    That to me sounds like pure damage control.

    Again all of this is 100% my opinion.

     

    Well in defense of Landmark, it is its own game. It will definitely help build EQN, but it is so much more then just a building tool for EQN. And as I have said before in my OP, they will be using the same assets; only changing them to fit the mold of the title. Just seems ofr myself they are doing a lot of work for both titles. EQN is just being worked on indirectly right now.

  • Burdoc101Burdoc101 Fort Campbell, KYPosts: 281Member
    [EDIT] Okay, thanks for clarification on the URL Nith....Yep haven't watched this one yet...anddd play. 
  • NitthNitth AustraliaPosts: 3,684Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by Burdoc101
    Originally posted by Nitth   Originally posted by Burdoc101   Hey do you, or does anyone, have the link to this interview where Dave says this? I missed it or haven't watched it :-(. 
      http://youtu.be/MU6LzCBPlCU?t=9m4s
    Derp, *blush*, the keynote? Do you have the time by chance he says it?

    edited post, Check url

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  • KyleranKyleran Tampa, FLPosts: 19,998Member Uncommon
    Is Landmark even 60% complete yet?

    In my day MMORPG's were so hard we fought our way through dungeons in the snow, uphill both ways.
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    Still currently "subscribed" to EVE, and only EVE!!!
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  • azzamasinazzamasin Butler, OHPosts: 3,058Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by DMKano

    Without Landmark there is no EQNext - SoE has been clear about this from the start.

    SoE needs players to build assets for EQNext because that was their plan for Landmark.

    Get the tools out to the community, have style guidelines set (example Dark Elf city) and let players design it according to SoE guidelines.

     

    However that line about "EQNext has been in front of you the entire time in form of Landmark" was also followed later with "We've been really busy with Landmark" - which means 90% of their EQNext Dev was all focused on Landmark.

    So for the last year its all been mostly Landmark work - EQNext dev was minimal at best and it showed - dark elves and couple of classes thrown together in super rough state for the sake of SoE Live - shown in a video, not even playable.

    So again they've been working on Landmark as that is the building tool for EQNext.

    Actual work of EQNext *in my opinion* was minimal at best - I am not buying the 60% done line for one second.

    That to me sounds like pure damage control.

    Again all of this is 100% my opinion.

    I agree with you that most of their work has been done on Landmark much to my chagrin however I disagree that it is damage control.  I am fine waiting on the game and to me it sounds like you're fairly upset that the game is'nt coming out faster.  Patience my friend.

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  • alyndalealyndale Posts: 854Member Uncommon

    To borrow from Blizzard and applied for SoE's EQ: Next; It will be ready when it's finished. Now, how many times have we seen in forums here where folk seem to agree that they would much rather wait a while for an mmo to be thoroughly tested proven as bug free as possible. I, for one subscribe to this.

    However, the unique aspect to testing EQ Next is found in the creation of Landmark. Here is the testing ground for almost all of the EQ Next assets. When problems are found in Landmark they are worked on and improved. Once they feel that part of Landmark which is shared by EQ Next is ready it is then implemented. At least that is how I envision. More than likely, it a bit more complicated than this, but could be a way to see this take place going forward. Uniquely as well is that the most creatively gifted players will have their creations introduce as permanent parts of the new mmo. I do not accept that SoE is so "broke" that the gamer has to do the design and development of EQ Next. This is simply a "reach" from some very frustrated folk it seems.

    If I were to predict a time for alpha, I can see next year's SoE Live as being an excellent time to celebrate the successes of the released Landmark and to further ramp up excitement for EQ Next with a possible alpha announcement much in the same vein as we saw last year with Landmark. This might mean a January/February 2016 alpha fundraiser/early access. Closed beta sometime in Q 2 of 2016 with the earliest possible full release by December, although my money would be on Q 1 of 2017.

    This is all a guess, but fun to think about all the same :)

    Alyn

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    Just gimme some truth
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  • Burdoc101Burdoc101 Fort Campbell, KYPosts: 281Member

    After watching the MMORPG.com interview () several things came to note in my mind.

     

    1. Sarnarks are probably not going to make it into EQN as a playable race...RIP

    2.  Races are going to be unlocked as the world is explored and expanded upon...I am not sure how I feel about this.

    3. Dave does state that EQN was 60% complete, but that was a rough estimate and he did not sound confident in his answer. So I can only assume it was an over-estimation. 

  • ice-vortexice-vortex Xenia, OHPosts: 951Member

    A lot of MMO development, especially for a sandbox, is system development. The one thing EQN and Landmark will share are the basic systems even if they will have different implementations of them. An example is the combat. Both will share the same type of action combat, but each will implement it in a different way.

    There's a number of systems yet to go for Landmark including combat (end of the month), flowing water (sometime in autumn), and Storybricks (probably also later this year). Once they get all the systems they plan to add in, they can focus only on the content on EQN.

  • GiffenGiffen Lacey, WAPosts: 268Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by DMKano

    Without Landmark there is no EQNext - SoE has been clear about this from the start.

    SoE needs players to build assets for EQNext because that was their plan for Landmark.

    Get the tools out to the community, have style guidelines set (example Dark Elf city) and let players design it according to SoE guidelines.

     

    However that line about "EQNext has been in front of you the entire time in form of Landmark" was also followed later with "We've been really busy with Landmark" - which means 90% of their EQNext Dev was all focused on Landmark.

    So for the last year its all been mostly Landmark work - EQNext dev was minimal at best and it showed - dark elves and couple of classes thrown together in super rough state for the sake of SoE Live - shown in a video, not even playable.

    So again they've been working on Landmark as that is the building tool for EQNext.

    Actual work of EQNext *in my opinion* was minimal at best - I am not buying the 60% done line for one second.

    That to me sounds like pure damage control.

    Again all of this is 100% my opinion.

    Most of the time it takes to develop an MMO is in the art assets.  That is why Landmark will make EQNext development much faster once the tools are all in place. 

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