I will never tab-target. Period. I will never macro. Another period. It is action-combat or I won't play the game. And I´m 45 years old, so reading about "action combat being for kids with adhd" makes me always furious. But as an adult, I just ignore it.
These posts seem to be very USA/EU-centric. Asians do great action-games and because of them action-combat will never disappear. Thank God.
I agree with you.
Now if we can get them to get rid of some of the crazy as shit mechanics they come up with that frustrate players, we'll be golden.
1. MMORPGs are typically played in long stretches. Action combat turns from fun to tedious in long stretches
2. No one has pulled off action combat well yet. GW2's group mechanics suck. TERA lacks depth. It just seems like you are sacrificing good group mechanics or combat complexity for action combat because no one has made a game that shows otherwise.
Originally posted by Pepeq Doesn't matter what combat system a game uses... nobody is going to play any of the new games for more than a month before switching games. They don't care to spend all their time playing one game anymore.
+1
All Time Favorites: EQ1, WoW, EvE, GW1 Playing Now: WoW, ESO, GW2
The only people who should slighted are those with real disabilities. When I played SWG, there were many who played with 1 hand. Not by choice, but due to a disability. Now if a game that has action combat and can not be configured to play with 1 hand, then those people would feel slighted.
Roses are red Violets are blue The reviewer has a mishapen head Which means his opinion is skewed ...Aldous.MF'n.Huxley
Originally posted by Pepeq Doesn't matter what combat system a game uses... nobody is going to play any of the new games for more than a month before switching games. They don't care to spend all their time playing one game anymore.
This pretty much says it all. I played EQ for something like 4 or 5 years, whereas now it would be unusual for me to play a game for a couple of months. The "been there, done that" factor creeps in so fast these days, for me.
Why are people saying that FPS like combat is shallow and lacks good group mechanics?? Ever played Darkfall?? Mortal Online?? In both you need to actually aim with your sword mesh and in DF magic are projectiles that you can dodge and guess what?? Group combat is more in depth that ANY themepark trash AND those retarded hybrids like GW2. You need total group coordination while being in voice chat or you will probably get wiped by a more organized force.
Also theyre both crafting based and sandbox, that means theyre more RPG than most of the trash that is released these days. Tab target is just boring for me and unimmersive, I wanna feel like I AM my character kicking that orcs or genetically modified aliens ass or whatever (fuck you) not watch him doing it while Im eating a sandwich and doing the laundry at the same time.
Action combat has been around long before GW2, especially in eastern MMOs, but it was primarily the only MMO to go mainstream in the west, with it's hybridized combat (sorry Darkfall and others, but you didn't go mainstream with popularity). Tera was also released before GW2, but after GW2, other MMOs such as ESO, Wildstar, and now EQN will have "action-combat", either hybridized versions, or non tab-targeting.
I also don't think there's a backlash at all. Just because GW2 didn't implement it as well as it could have, doesn't mean ESO or Wildstar's combat is terrible. In fact, it's not really GW2's combat that's the problem, but it's mostly their A.I. encounters that make it seem bad, and not only that, but the non-Trinity of Tank, Healer, and DPS also contributed to it.
I'll still take any "action-combat" MMO over tab-targeting anyday. I just can't go back to that archaic gameplay of being rooted casting skills and spells, without dodging or blocking.
It would be like going from real-time combat to turn-based combat.
edit: I forgot about Age of Conan, and that went mainstream too, but their hybridized combat system got obscured after the massive failure of the other areas of the game. Their combat was actually really good. It's been awhile though so i don't really remember much about it anymore.
My problem is not with straight action or FPS/ TPS combat. I enjoy those games a lot and can spend hours playing them.
My problem is with this horrible hybrid system that many mmo's have these days. The game tells you when to dodge via some telegraph and then like Pavlov's dog you press the corresponding button. Why bother? Where is the skill in that?
I would rather just play my action/FPS/TPS games, and play my tab-targeting or turn-based mmo's. I do not need a half-arsed effort at combining them both.
I really am beginning to dislike action combat mainly because I'm older and not very quick and it hurts my shoulder ,elbow and wrist when I play too long. It is tiring and it introduces a lot of wear and tear on my joints that I have to use medicated oil to ease the pain sometimes after playing Wildstar. I dumped Wildstar and am playing FFXIV ARR now as a result.
I am curious about the future of action combat and tab-targeting in MMOs. My guess is that a lot of the recently released and currently being developed action MMOs were a direct result of GW2, which was thought by many to be a truly revolutionary game that could be a WoW-killer. That didn't come to pass, and unless I'm mistaken, none of the other action combat MMOs subsequently released have taken the top ranking spots in the West away from tab-target games like WoW, SWTOR and FFXIV. Am I correct in this? If this is the case, will future developers look at the continuing success of tab-target games and go back to this format with new games? I don't think that action combat will go away, but is there room in the future for both styles?
Hopefully future developers won't be stupid enough to try to draw such a ridiculous correlation.
The second question is....
Well, past my bedtime.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Also can someone explain to me why people think magic abilities should be dodgable? Dodging fireballs seems kind of silly to me.
If it's moving slow enough to dodge, why not?
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
I hate the new "dodge the red" action based crap personally, which seems to come with the anti-trinity "everyone can do everything" model as well. Give me old school tab target trinity any day. MMOs were great for a reason, they have been watered down into solo chat room twitch races to endgame.
But I digress, the action thing just is not the MMO experience I am looking for. MMO's should be entertaining, but not a twitch session where you can't look away for one second or you die. Wildstar was horrific when it came to this. I loved arcade games as a child, but not so much now. And these action combat MMOs feel like arcade games to me. I get exhausted at work, when playing on my pc I want an entertaining but relaxing experience.
I admit, after beta testing WildStar and playing for two months ... I'm a bit exhausted. Srangely, I used to find questing and combat relaxing and I knew where I could find lots of action when I was in the mood - but most games just don't have anything relaxing to do except boring crap like crafting/econ or housing (sorry crafters). Am I wrong for not wanting every moment in the game to be frantic? It's a tough balance to find that few games have been able to achieve.
Originally posted by VicDynamo I admit, after beta testing WildStar and playing for two months ... I'm a bit exhausted. Srangely, I used to find questing and combat relaxing and I knew where I could find lots of action when I was in the mood - but most games just don't have anything relaxing to do except boring crap like crafting/econ or housing (sorry crafters). Am I wrong for not wanting every moment in the game to be frantic? It's a tough balance to find that few games have been able to achieve.
1. MMORPGs are typically played in long stretches. Action combat turns from fun to tedious in long stretches
2. No one has pulled off action combat well yet. GW2's group mechanics suck. TERA lacks depth. It just seems like you are sacrificing good group mechanics or combat complexity for action combat because no one has made a game that shows otherwise.
I don't feel that way and don't see a backlash at all. I'm just not seeing any evidence to that assertion.
Your points are valid for you but very subjective, and again I don't feel that way. It doesn't get tedious to me.
It's hard to paint any combat style with very broad strokes. It's better to describe aspects and features. For example, GW2 combat is a hybrid in my opinion. It is tab-target with a hard lock (moving away doesn't change target lock like say Neverwinter does) but it is still aim dependent. It is free fire, that is you can shoot or launch a skill even if you don't have a valid target and/or your target isn't in range. It also uses skill checks to help determine combat outcomes. It has active dodging with a stamina meter.
Tera has a more action-oriented system as does Neverwinter, RaiderZ, Defiance, and Firefall. I'm not sure why you say Tera lacks depth, but I disagree. It has skill synergies and different mechanics such as healing orbs. Control is important. There are different strategies that can be employed by a class and different tactical options in an encounter. That is true for Neverwinter as well, but both games play differently.
One perceived problem may lie with those who are used to RNG based combat. Action oriented combat requires a bit more mechanical coordination or it can get hectic. It takes practice to do that. I think there are fans of RNG based combat who expect to waltz into an action oriented game and just master it right away. That doesn't happen and they come away with the impression that combat is always disorganized. It's only disorganized to the rookie.
Fair rebuttal, and I agree that especially the first point is very subjective.
Funny you mention RNG, because to me RNG is absolutely essential to the genre: its an RPG staple and randomness in general makes things more interesting, but then action combat does not mean no RNG is applied.
And it takes practice to master any combat. The people who say WoW combat takes no skill have never raided hard mode Ulduar or heroic Ragnaros when it was current. They will never advance far in RBGs. In fact, (well opinion really), it probably takes more skill to be elite in WoW than it does in the action games on the market. Of course 'skill' involves so much more than twitch reflexes, it involves mental dexterity as well.
I still prefer EQ combat the best. Was slow enough that it was relaxing, but you could really shine by knowing your class inside and out (the difference between an average necromancer and a great one in a group was enormous for instance) and there were moments where things could get quite hectic. Part of the reason why it worked was because mobs were dangerous (unlike todays MMOs) and death stung so the slow pace had a bit of a tension to it.
Originally posted by Pepeq Doesn't matter what combat system a game uses... nobody is going to play any of the new games for more than a month before switching games. They don't care to spend all their time playing one game anymore.
This pretty much says it all. I played EQ for something like 4 or 5 years, whereas now it would be unusual for me to play a game for a couple of months. The "been there, done that" factor creeps in so fast these days, for me.
Combat system still matter. Even if I play a game for a month, i want a fun month, and the combat system contributes to that.
What surprises me in the last few years isn't how players gravitate towards so-called "good" combat...what surprises me is how players will put up with bad combat just to get at features that they are desperate to enjoy.
Take Minecraft or Space Engineers or Gary's Mod...games have horrible, unbalanced, unfair, borked and utterly frustrating combat experiences. And yet, they are wildly popular in spite of the bad combat.
It makes me think that combat isn't the thing that brings people to virtual worlds...the thing that brings people to virtual worlds is the other stuff: the creative expression, the vastness, the discovery, the community. Give players those things, and they'll put up with the most borked, grief-laden, unintuitive and unbalanced crap in the history of gaming. But if those things aren't there, no combat improvement will help.
What's the lesson here? Improving the combat in an MMO is utterly pointless. Improving the combat in such a way as to dominate the experience (like in the fast-action, twitch way) can undermine the MMO far more readily than a simple, abstracted system that maintains the abstract reality.
But that world? That "other stuff"? Those are the reasons people play MMOs over...say...Arkham Origins or Mass Effect.
__________________________ "Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it." --Arcken
"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints." --Hellmar, CEO of CCP.
"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls." --Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE
What surprises me in the last few years isn't how players gravitate towards so-called "good" combat...what surprises me is how players will put up with bad combat just to get at features that they are desperate to enjoy.
Take Minecraft or Space Engineers or Gary's Mod...games have horrible, unbalanced, unfair, borked and utterly frustrating combat experiences. And yet, they are wildly popular in spite of the bad combat.
It makes me think that combat isn't the thing that brings people to virtual worlds...the thing that brings people to virtual worlds is the other stuff: the creative expression, the vastness, the discovery, the community. Give players those things, and they'll put up with the most borked, grief-laden, unintuitive and unbalanced crap in the history of gaming. But if those things aren't there, no combat improvement will help.
What's the lesson here? Improving the combat in an MMO is utterly pointless. Improving the combat in such a way as to dominate the experience (like in the fast-action, twitch way) can undermine the MMO far more readily than a simple, abstracted system that maintains the abstract reality.
But that world? That "other stuff"? Those are the reasons people play MMOs over...say...Arkham Origins or Mass Effect.
minecraft is a building game. Combat has as much priority in minecraft as d3 sets priotity on competitive pvp.
The only purpose for statbased combat is either compensate for being a shitty player or to gate content. Neither is desirable if you ain't at the bottom and value your time.
Originally posted by MightyUnclean I am curious about the future of action combat and tab-targeting in MMOs. My guess is that a lot of the recently released and currently being developed action MMOs were a direct result of GW2, which was thought by many to be a truly revolutionary game that could be a WoW-killer. That didn't come to pass, and unless I'm mistaken, none of the other action combat MMOs subsequently released have taken the top ranking spots in the West away from tab-target games like WoW, SWTOR and FFXIV. Am I correct in this? If this is the case, will future developers look at the continuing success of tab-target games and go back to this format with new games? I don't think that action combat will go away, but is there room in the future for both styles?
What continuing success? its was the only choice for a long time.
TSW - AoC - Aion - WOW - EVE - Fallen Earth - Co - Rift - || XNA C# Java Development
It's because the video game side of the house (Consoles, Action Games, Shooters) has all but killed the RPG heritage. I don't see dice-roll based combat coming back any time soon. MMOs are poor substitute for PnP role-playing games (current technology cannot mimic freedom with consequences on the scale of a pen and paper game), and they suck as action games, so they are picking a path and going there.
MMOs will become more and more like action video games, and less like RPGs. That's why I stopped playing MMOs recently, they suck at what they do.
MMORPG players are often like Hobbits: They don't like Adventures
It's because the video game side of the house (Consoles, Action Games, Shooters) has all but killed the RPG heritage. I don't see dice-roll based combat coming back any time soon. MMOs are poor substitute for PnP role-playing games (current technology cannot mimic freedom with consequences on the scale of a pen and paper game), and they suck as action games, so they are picking a path and going there.
MMOs will become more and more like action video games, and less like RPGs. That's why I stopped playing MMOs recently, they suck at what they do.
I don't blame you, and I agree with you. Not only do MMOs suck at replicating action games, they'll never be as good as action games.
I don't see MMOs replacing or replicating action/adventure games anytime soon. The action/adventure format just delivers the action/adventure experience better than MMOs do.
The thing that makes action/adventure work is the "cutscene": it is both reward and downtime rolled up into one package. Without it, the player loses all libidinal investment in what is going on.
But cutscenes are best enjoyed in silence, and best enjoyed alone...just like any movie.
Here's the dirty secret behind action/adventure...there's actually very little "action" going on...it is mostly downtime. Just look at something like Mass Effect or Elder Scrolls, Obsidian or Fallout, and you'll see what I mean. This is necessary, because when the action does come, it actually "feels" like a high.
But action MMOs don't work this way. In an effort to make everything "efficient" and "achievement oriented," MMOs have given players more option to get to the action faster...cutting out the "downtimes."
But cutting out downtimes doesn't make the combat more exciting...it only makes the combat feel more rote and dull, no matter how "action oriented" and "exciting" it is supposed to be.
When the only way to take a break from the constant repetition of combat after combat after combat is the logout button, there's a problem. Because every time a person logs out, he comes that much closer to not wanting to log back in.
__________________________ "Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it." --Arcken
"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints." --Hellmar, CEO of CCP.
"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls." --Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE
The only purpose for statbased combat is either compensate for being a shitty player or to gate content. Neither is desirable if you ain't at the bottom and value your time.
Only if you view them as just arcade games where the only thing you are trying to do is show off your "skillz" to your bros. In an RPG stats allow you to play your character and have deep strategic combat. But I have no illusions that people like you won't always be in the majority and devs will cater to you a lot. I just hope actual RPGs don't completely die out because I enjoy them a lot more than FPSes.
Comments
I agree with you.
Now if we can get them to get rid of some of the crazy as shit mechanics they come up with that frustrate players, we'll be golden.
2 reasons there is a backlash to action combat:
1. MMORPGs are typically played in long stretches. Action combat turns from fun to tedious in long stretches
2. No one has pulled off action combat well yet. GW2's group mechanics suck. TERA lacks depth. It just seems like you are sacrificing good group mechanics or combat complexity for action combat because no one has made a game that shows otherwise.
All Time Favorites: EQ1, WoW, EvE, GW1
Playing Now: WoW, ESO, GW2
When I played SWG, there were many who played with 1 hand. Not by choice, but due to a disability. Now if a game that has action combat and can not be configured to play with 1 hand, then those people would feel slighted.
Roses are red
Violets are blue
The reviewer has a mishapen head
Which means his opinion is skewed
...Aldous.MF'n.Huxley
This pretty much says it all. I played EQ for something like 4 or 5 years, whereas now it would be unusual for me to play a game for a couple of months. The "been there, done that" factor creeps in so fast these days, for me.
Also theyre both crafting based and sandbox, that means theyre more RPG than most of the trash that is released these days. Tab target is just boring for me and unimmersive, I wanna feel like I AM my character kicking that orcs or genetically modified aliens ass or whatever (fuck you) not watch him doing it while Im eating a sandwich and doing the laundry at the same time.
Action combat has been around long before GW2, especially in eastern MMOs, but it was primarily the only MMO to go mainstream in the west, with it's hybridized combat (sorry Darkfall and others, but you didn't go mainstream with popularity). Tera was also released before GW2, but after GW2, other MMOs such as ESO, Wildstar, and now EQN will have "action-combat", either hybridized versions, or non tab-targeting.
I also don't think there's a backlash at all. Just because GW2 didn't implement it as well as it could have, doesn't mean ESO or Wildstar's combat is terrible. In fact, it's not really GW2's combat that's the problem, but it's mostly their A.I. encounters that make it seem bad, and not only that, but the non-Trinity of Tank, Healer, and DPS also contributed to it.
I'll still take any "action-combat" MMO over tab-targeting anyday. I just can't go back to that archaic gameplay of being rooted casting skills and spells, without dodging or blocking.
It would be like going from real-time combat to turn-based combat.
edit: I forgot about Age of Conan, and that went mainstream too, but their hybridized combat system got obscured after the massive failure of the other areas of the game. Their combat was actually really good. It's been awhile though so i don't really remember much about it anymore.
My problem is not with straight action or FPS/ TPS combat. I enjoy those games a lot and can spend hours playing them.
My problem is with this horrible hybrid system that many mmo's have these days. The game tells you when to dodge via some telegraph and then like Pavlov's dog you press the corresponding button. Why bother? Where is the skill in that?
I would rather just play my action/FPS/TPS games, and play my tab-targeting or turn-based mmo's. I do not need a half-arsed effort at combining them both.
Hopefully future developers won't be stupid enough to try to draw such a ridiculous correlation.
The second question is....
Well, past my bedtime.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
If it's moving slow enough to dodge, why not?
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
tera, vindictus and please dont say GW2 has action combat, it has targeted abiltiies but the core is Tab Target lol
I hate the new "dodge the red" action based crap personally, which seems to come with the anti-trinity "everyone can do everything" model as well. Give me old school tab target trinity any day. MMOs were great for a reason, they have been watered down into solo chat room twitch races to endgame.
But I digress, the action thing just is not the MMO experience I am looking for. MMO's should be entertaining, but not a twitch session where you can't look away for one second or you die. Wildstar was horrific when it came to this. I loved arcade games as a child, but not so much now. And these action combat MMOs feel like arcade games to me. I get exhausted at work, when playing on my pc I want an entertaining but relaxing experience.
I would call it a hybrid tab/action before I would call it one or the other.
When you see the fire balls bend 180° to chase after you then you will understand why .
Let magic and arrow home run kill the mean of action combat
Personally , i don't think currents action combat are good .
Good action combat should target the ground where player stand , not on player's body.
Not wrong at all, my sentiments exactly.
Fair rebuttal, and I agree that especially the first point is very subjective.
Funny you mention RNG, because to me RNG is absolutely essential to the genre: its an RPG staple and randomness in general makes things more interesting, but then action combat does not mean no RNG is applied.
And it takes practice to master any combat. The people who say WoW combat takes no skill have never raided hard mode Ulduar or heroic Ragnaros when it was current. They will never advance far in RBGs. In fact, (well opinion really), it probably takes more skill to be elite in WoW than it does in the action games on the market. Of course 'skill' involves so much more than twitch reflexes, it involves mental dexterity as well.
I still prefer EQ combat the best. Was slow enough that it was relaxing, but you could really shine by knowing your class inside and out (the difference between an average necromancer and a great one in a group was enormous for instance) and there were moments where things could get quite hectic. Part of the reason why it worked was because mobs were dangerous (unlike todays MMOs) and death stung so the slow pace had a bit of a tension to it.
Combat system still matter. Even if I play a game for a month, i want a fun month, and the combat system contributes to that.
What surprises me in the last few years isn't how players gravitate towards so-called "good" combat...what surprises me is how players will put up with bad combat just to get at features that they are desperate to enjoy.
Take Minecraft or Space Engineers or Gary's Mod...games have horrible, unbalanced, unfair, borked and utterly frustrating combat experiences. And yet, they are wildly popular in spite of the bad combat.
It makes me think that combat isn't the thing that brings people to virtual worlds...the thing that brings people to virtual worlds is the other stuff: the creative expression, the vastness, the discovery, the community. Give players those things, and they'll put up with the most borked, grief-laden, unintuitive and unbalanced crap in the history of gaming. But if those things aren't there, no combat improvement will help.
What's the lesson here? Improving the combat in an MMO is utterly pointless. Improving the combat in such a way as to dominate the experience (like in the fast-action, twitch way) can undermine the MMO far more readily than a simple, abstracted system that maintains the abstract reality.
But that world? That "other stuff"? Those are the reasons people play MMOs over...say...Arkham Origins or Mass Effect.
__________________________
"Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it."
--Arcken
"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints."
--Hellmar, CEO of CCP.
"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls."
--Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE
minecraft is a building game. Combat has as much priority in minecraft as d3 sets priotity on competitive pvp.
@Stat apostles
The only purpose for statbased combat is either compensate for being a shitty player or to gate content. Neither is desirable if you ain't at the bottom and value your time.
Pi*1337/100 = 42
What continuing success? its was the only choice for a long time.
TSW - AoC - Aion - WOW - EVE - Fallen Earth - Co - Rift - || XNA C# Java Development
It's because the video game side of the house (Consoles, Action Games, Shooters) has all but killed the RPG heritage. I don't see dice-roll based combat coming back any time soon. MMOs are poor substitute for PnP role-playing games (current technology cannot mimic freedom with consequences on the scale of a pen and paper game), and they suck as action games, so they are picking a path and going there.
MMOs will become more and more like action video games, and less like RPGs. That's why I stopped playing MMOs recently, they suck at what they do.
I don't blame you, and I agree with you. Not only do MMOs suck at replicating action games, they'll never be as good as action games.
I don't see MMOs replacing or replicating action/adventure games anytime soon. The action/adventure format just delivers the action/adventure experience better than MMOs do.
The thing that makes action/adventure work is the "cutscene": it is both reward and downtime rolled up into one package. Without it, the player loses all libidinal investment in what is going on.
But cutscenes are best enjoyed in silence, and best enjoyed alone...just like any movie.
Here's the dirty secret behind action/adventure...there's actually very little "action" going on...it is mostly downtime. Just look at something like Mass Effect or Elder Scrolls, Obsidian or Fallout, and you'll see what I mean. This is necessary, because when the action does come, it actually "feels" like a high.
But action MMOs don't work this way. In an effort to make everything "efficient" and "achievement oriented," MMOs have given players more option to get to the action faster...cutting out the "downtimes."
But cutting out downtimes doesn't make the combat more exciting...it only makes the combat feel more rote and dull, no matter how "action oriented" and "exciting" it is supposed to be.
When the only way to take a break from the constant repetition of combat after combat after combat is the logout button, there's a problem. Because every time a person logs out, he comes that much closer to not wanting to log back in.
__________________________
"Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it."
--Arcken
"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints."
--Hellmar, CEO of CCP.
"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls."
--Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE
Only if you view them as just arcade games where the only thing you are trying to do is show off your "skillz" to your bros. In an RPG stats allow you to play your character and have deep strategic combat. But I have no illusions that people like you won't always be in the majority and devs will cater to you a lot. I just hope actual RPGs don't completely die out because I enjoy them a lot more than FPSes.