It didn't look extremely bad. But the biggest problem was how meh it all felt.
That can be attributed to the spammy feeling the attacks had, which was most apparent with the cleric class. My biggest fear for this game is how they'll make the combat interesting with the limited number of hotkeys.
People often call out: "But a small number of interesting abilities is better than a large number of uninteresting ones!" The thing is though: it's not guaranteed that such a small number of abilities will be more interesting, just because there's a small number of them.
If they want to make this work they need to focus on combos. A bit like fighting games which are fun and potentially complex to play on controllers as well.
RIP MMOs of the past.... time to move on to something else obviously. The current trend of action based cartoon crap is really not appealing to me at all.
MMOs finally replaced social interaction, forced grouping and standing in a line while talking to eachother.
Now we have forced soloing, forced questing and everyone is the hero, without ever having to talk to anyone else. The evolution of multiplayer is here! We won,... right?
I'm sorry, but Tech Demo, or not, that was just terrible. They could've put more effort into it, especially since it's debuting for SOE Live, where everyone is going to be watching, including the press. They've had the time to polish everything up, including the animations, models, sound effects, spell effects, etc. It seems like they put this together in a couple week's timeframe. What were they thinking?
I'm not understanding the GW2 and Tera comparisons either, since there's no way to tell how the skills will function without seeing a UI, cooldown timers, stats, etc. This looks nothing like Tera's combat though. That's pretty obvious, since i didn't see any animation locks, or "hack n' slash" combat which is popular in asian MMOs.
They did put it together in 2 weeks lol, they are busy developing 2 games. I was there (via twitter and twitchtv) when they said they were preparing. I must say, we didnt expect this, SOE Live is a fan faire its meant for people who play SOE games, they revealed it to US not you. Why would they try to impress you if its not coming out for another 2-3 years? Ill leave you with this thought. "The gaming industry is hopeless"... now go back to WoW!
You really are delusional. It's not just for fans. It's for the gaming press at large. They are trying to sell a product here. The release date doesn't matter either, whether it's released in one month or two years. It still needs to impress potential customers. Your typical fanboy response, "now go back to WoW!" is amusing, and at least i know not to waste anymore time on someone who uses that as their defense of a shitty presentation.
EQNext as the game touted to "revolutionize the genre" - umm... no.
Go fire up Trove
Are Trove and EQN in the same genre or direct competition? Personally don't care if every single element of EQN has been around forever in other games in other genres or even on different systems. I do not know of any other AAA fantasy mmorpg that has all the elements that EQN is shooting for. Some other "sandbox" like games like ArcheAge are bringing a large bag of tricks as well, but they are missing voxels/storybricks and a lot of the western touches that EQN will have.
Is EQN 100% original or going to start some virtual revolution? Probably not. But it will be part of the next generation of games that are already underway. Almost every game on it's way is going for the sandbox, open world, emergent type design. EQN could be at the front of the pack as very few have a large company or enough cash backing them along with the reach of the EQ franchise. Will it drain the life out of WoW and all older games as WoW did? Probably not. But these games will be what people are playing 5, 10, 15 years from now. Along with building games, moba, fps, and whatever else is still popular.
Go fire up Trove and tell me it is something EQN should worry about. Totally different types of games aimed at different players. Difference is I could see Trove/Minecraft players going to EQN/Landmark more so than the other way around. At some point some people might want "more" beyond blocks, despite the gameplay being designed well.
Wow. I was soooo excited for EQN but now I have no idea what to say.
Possibly switching EQN to the same setup as Landmark.. was a bad idea. The style , voxels , action combat . etc feels at home in Landmark .. In EQN I feel it could be holding the game back. Go launch Planetside 2 and then Landmark.. I would rather be running around an EQN that looked like PS2 than Landmark.
I feel the same way.
HOWEVER
the tradeoff for destrucible world (voxel farm on top of Forgelight engine) - is that the game looks FUGLY (my opinion).
PS2 looks fine to me.
I run around in Landmark - and it's just blotchy blobby poop - that's what things look like (especially in distance) - like globs of putty.
EQNext as the game touted to "revolutionize the genre" - umm... no.
It is a revolution in just about every single way, and the only argument you pose against this fact is that the non-optimized pre-alpha rendering of terrain at a distance is lacking polish. Great argument. You sold it.
Look at Trove - other than cube voxels it has 90% of all the features *right now in playable form* that EQNext will have in what 2 years?
Revolution what?
Go fire up Trove Alpha - fully destructible sandbox world, classes, action combat, procedural worlds multi tiered dungeons that you can dig your way into from bottom if you wish, crafting, gathering, player created worlds, player created dungeons, players submitting weapon, asset designs, skins etc....
Its been running since November of 2013 - playable alpha - not a tech demo.
So yeah - EQNext has the voxels farm smooth voxels, but look at *gameplay features* - which is your argument right?
Trove has been having them for months, and also many additional features that Landmark/EQNext havent even mentioned (like music voxels).
Oh yeah those "flinging voxels" that SoE showed off in Landmark keynote 2 days ago - been in Trove for months.
EQN is a virtual world MMORPG
Trove is a Minecraft/RPG hybrid, a better cubeworld
There is a rather enormous difference in scope of the game and they aren't even really in the same genre.
I don't think I've ever done such a 180 on a game in my life. I was so sold on this game when they announced it, and destructible environments and all that good stuff (even the art style wasn't to bad, was waiting to see how it progressed).
Ever since then, it's gone downhill and this is just the coup de grace. Action twitchy combat with this art style...I'm tapping out here.
I'm sure there are folks who will LOVE this game, doesn't look like I will be one of them. Off to wait for the next big thing and hope whatever that is, isn't as disappointing as this has turned out to be so far (Maybe that new Bioware game).
I think they could have done so much more than what they are trying to do, I don't understand why these companies play follow the leader with ideas instead of trying to innovate. Maybe SOE took all their innovation and creative people and dumped them in H1Z1 because it doesn't look like any of them made it to this game.
I don't think I've ever done such a 180 on a game in my life. I was so sold on this game when they announced it, and destructible environments and all that good stuff (even the art style wasn't to bad, was waiting to see how it progressed).
Ever since then, it's gone downhill and this is just the coup de grace. Action twitchy combat with this art style...I'm tapping out here.
I'm sure there are folks who will LOVE this game, doesn't look like I will be one of them. Off to wait for the next big thing and hope whatever that is, isn't as disappointing as this has turned out to be so far (Maybe that new Bioware game).
I think they could have done so much more than what they are trying to do, I don't understand why these companies play follow the leader with ideas instead of trying to innovate. Maybe SOE took all their innovation and creative people and dumped them in H1Z1 because it doesn't look like any of them made it to this game.
Could you give some examples? I see this opinion used a lot, but rarely see any actual "innovative" or original ideas suggested. There is a finite number of ways to do certain things. Such as combat. You got turn based, tab, action tab, action skill shot, etc. Only so many ways to do a skill bar, progress, yadda yadda. Once you start venturing too far outside the "norm" games start turning into different genres and totally different experiences. Not that this is wrong, but if they want to make a fantasy mmorpg with XYZ elements, they do have limits to their choices.
You complain about action combat and the art style. You would like them to use what instead that is innovative?
After this weekend.. I'm more sure now then before this game isn't for me.. I wouldn't even call classes , classes in this game.. They are more like small packets of skills, you find and acquire.. I don't mind the action twitch combat in Diablo 3, but I will not settle for it here.. Did ya'll notice all the skills shown are area effect skills / spells and normally up close and personal.. So if I'm a playing a Ranger, I have to worry about twitch shooting a moving target at a distance? Oh yea that is going to be fun for so many.. Will their be pets and how do you command pets without targeting? hmmm Or will they allow targeting, just not combat.. and won't that just promote everyone to play a pet class? So many details, NO real demo and explanations.. I found the whole 1 hour video a total waste of my time..
Notice how the spell effects are more subtle, and less obscuring, than EQN. Yes, it's still flashy, but it's not over the top like GW2's effects, or EQN. The only thing that is really obscuring the screen are the damage numbers, which looks ridiculous, and is a major complaint in asian mmos.
In this EQN video, the effects & flashes are too bright and larger than avatars themselves, and the artwork of them looks undesirable. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wsaLHtpFhfw
Originally posted by Rydeson After this weekend.. I'm more sure now then before this game isn't for me.. I wouldn't even call classes , classes in this game.. They are more like small packets of skills, you find and acquire..
Wouldn't argue this actually. At the same time, classes seem like this to me in most games, just a lot more skills per packet. With the high amount of build options, everyone will probably have fairly different versions of each class. Which they said last year. If they don't make the class we want, we can try to build it with the options available.
I don't mind the action twitch combat in Diablo 3, but I will not settle for it here.. Did ya'll notice all the skills shown are area effect skills / spells and normally up close and personal.. So if I'm a playing a Ranger, I have to worry about twitch shooting a moving target at a distance?
Did you watch the Landmark combat? Looked like skill shot and or individual attacks will still be a thing. Just higher amount of AOE and frontal cone type stuff. Which to me makes sense. If I swing a sword I should hit stuff in front of me. If I shoot a fireball, it should hit a target and or have splash damage. Not sure if you've ever played a skill shot game, but it really isn't that hard due to the speed of combat. You aren't shooting an arrow from a mile away. Just like someone can move out of the way of a sword dash, someone can dodge an arrow. Hence the AOE skills to make up for this.
Oh yea that is going to be fun for so many.. Will their be pets and how do you command pets without targeting? hmmm Or will they allow targeting, just not combat.. and won't that just promote everyone to play a pet class? So many details, NO real demo and explanations.. I found the whole 1 hour video a total waste of my time..
No word on pets yet beyond they exist, will resemble what we've know from other games, and will utilize the Storybricks AI (I believe). As you said this wasn't a "real" demo of the full game as it is a WIP. I'm assuming they have Pets and other things in the works and aren't going to design classes so that pets become mandatory. Sure they might make mistakes, but game breaking things like this from the start? I'd hope not.
If your targeting concern with pets is not being able to send a pet on something while you beat on something else, maybe that isn't possible, or maybe it is and they have something in place to do it that isn't tab-targeting for the entire game.
If all you watched was 1 panel, check out the rest. Lots of new details, but if it isn't the game for you, it isn't.
Nothing they showed was that "new" from what they hyped or showed since last year. Still the same game, just a bit more explanation and some more examples to go along with it. As I've been saying though, seemed like you didn't like anything about EQN beforehand, not sure what they can do to change your mind. As in, if you hated the art style, doubt you'll ever be convinced it looks good. We like what we like. Hopefully you move on and find a game to enjoy, no reason to stick around and complain about what is.
I don't think I've ever done such a 180 on a game in my life. I was so sold on this game when they announced it, and destructible environments and all that good stuff (even the art style wasn't to bad, was waiting to see how it progressed).
Ever since then, it's gone downhill and this is just the coup de grace. Action twitchy combat with this art style...I'm tapping out here.
I'm sure there are folks who will LOVE this game, doesn't look like I will be one of them. Off to wait for the next big thing and hope whatever that is, isn't as disappointing as this has turned out to be so far (Maybe that new Bioware game).
I think they could have done so much more than what they are trying to do, I don't understand why these companies play follow the leader with ideas instead of trying to innovate. Maybe SOE took all their innovation and creative people and dumped them in H1Z1 because it doesn't look like any of them made it to this game.
Could you give some examples? I see this opinion used a lot, but rarely see any actual "innovative" or original ideas suggested. There is a finite number of ways to do certain things. Such as combat. You got turn based, tab, action tab, action skill shot, etc. Only so many ways to do a skill bar, progress, yadda yadda. Once you start venturing too far outside the "norm" games start turning into different genres and totally different experiences. Not that this is wrong, but if they want to make a fantasy mmorpg with XYZ elements, they do have limits to their choices.
You complain about action combat and the art style. You would like them to use what instead that is innovative?
Well for one thing if you look at what Bioware is going with Shadow Realm (as an example), one person is actually going to be controlling the monsters, traps, etc off screen, almost like a DM.
Yeah that "idea" might have been done years ago when AOL was around, but hasn't been done at all in modern MMO's at the level they are talking about and certainly not to the level where you are going to control dungeons and traps to that extent. That to me is innovation. Sure, they could totally screw it up and it may stink (we haven't seen it yet), but they are at least going with something new. What is this game doing that is even in the same realm?
If I wanted to play GW2 light (which is what this looks like) I would just go back to play GW2 (which I did play when it came out but found the lack of defined roles and...yeah you've heard it all before so I won't bore you with the same complaints). Look I'm being 100% honest I was looking forward to this game bigtime, but everytime I hear or see something about this game...I get less and less impressed to the point where I just don't think it's for me.
Like I said, I'm sure there is an audience that will love the game, and I certainly doj't hope it fails...the more choice we have as gamers the better, It's just not for me.
Well for one thing if you look at what Bioware is going with Shadow Realm (as an example), one person is actually going to be controlling the monsters, traps, etc off screen, almost like a DM.
Yeah that "idea" might have been done years ago when AOL was around, but hasn't been done at all in modern MMO's at the level they are talking about and certainly not to the level where you are going to control dungeons and traps to that extent. That to me is innovation. Sure, they could totally screw it up and it may stink (we haven't seen it yet), but they are at least going with something new. What is this game doing that is even in the same realm?
If I wanted to play GW2 light (which is what this looks like) I would just go back to play GW2 (which I did play when it came out but found the lack of defined roles and...yeah you've heard it all before so I won't bore you with the same complaints). Look I'm being 100% honest I was looking forward to this game bigtime, but everytime I hear or see something about this game...I get less and less impressed to the point where I just don't think it's for me.
Like I said, I'm sure there is an audience that will love the game, and I certainly doj't hope it fails...the more choice we have as gamers the better, It's just not for me.
Shadow Realm is also not the same genre as EQN so options available are no where near the same. There are tiny indie games with crazy new approaches to game play that just aren't possible in a EQN type game. Like I said there are limits even when trying to think outside the box.
Although, they've alluded to players being able to make D&D like experiences in Landmark by creating content (dungeons, mobs, quests, etc). So we might see this in a different SOE game sooner or later.
Looking at the recent games released and other upcoming games, I see very little innovation or even originality. Nothing wrong with that though if the end result is enjoyable. EQN although does seem to have a lot of variety and new takes on traditional systems that other games are staying safe with.
Could you explain the GW2 light though? While I can understand people seeing superficial similarities between the two, if anything I'd say EQN is GW2 on a massive dose of roids, but really not that similar in my eyes.
Sometimes I think we have unfair expectations. Take cellphones for example, within the last few years they've made massive improvements and are now at a point where companies are just trying crazy things hoping it will get them some sales when these "innovations" probably don't add anything that many even want/need. Where people are now just meh it's a phone with a screen, big whoop, forgetting that just a few years ago we were walking around with stone age devices in comparison.
I think gaming is not too different, people scream for innovation, but don't even know what it is they are looking for. Unfair to go, "I don't know what I want, I just want something and you better figure it out game developers!" Or when a company does think outside the box and try it different, everyone screams they want it to be like how it used to be. Never going to please everyone.
Purely visual. I cannot formulate an opinion what so ever yet without detailed presentations about how every single mechanic comes together and what options are ultimately available.
People formulating opinions on such limited presentation (pre-alpha none the less) without playing the game themselves are simply nurturing anxiety.
Well for one thing if you look at what Bioware is going with Shadow Realm (as an example), one person is actually going to be controlling the monsters, traps, etc off screen, almost like a DM.
Yeah that "idea" might have been done years ago when AOL was around, but hasn't been done at all in modern MMO's at the level they are talking about and certainly not to the level where you are going to control dungeons and traps to that extent. That to me is innovation. Sure, they could totally screw it up and it may stink (we haven't seen it yet), but they are at least going with something new. What is this game doing that is even in the same realm?
If I wanted to play GW2 light (which is what this looks like) I would just go back to play GW2 (which I did play when it came out but found the lack of defined roles and...yeah you've heard it all before so I won't bore you with the same complaints). Look I'm being 100% honest I was looking forward to this game bigtime, but everytime I hear or see something about this game...I get less and less impressed to the point where I just don't think it's for me.
Like I said, I'm sure there is an audience that will love the game, and I certainly doj't hope it fails...the more choice we have as gamers the better, It's just not for me.
Shadow Realm is also not the same genre as EQN so options available are no where near the same. There are tiny indie games with crazy new approaches to game play that just aren't possible in a EQN type game. Like I said there are limits even when trying to think outside the box.
Although, they've alluded to players being able to make D&D like experiences in Landmark by creating content (dungeons, mobs, quests, etc). So we might see this in a different SOE game sooner or later.
Looking at the recent games released and other upcoming games, I see very little innovation or even originality. Nothing wrong with that though if the end result is enjoyable. EQN although does seem to have a lot of variety and new takes on traditional systems that other games are staying safe with.
Could you explain the GW2 light though? While I can understand people seeing superficial similarities between the two, if anything I'd say EQN is GW2 on a massive dose of roids, but really not that similar in my eyes.
Sometimes I think we have unfair expectations. Take cellphones for example, within the last few years they've made massive improvements and are now at a point where companies are just trying crazy things hoping it will get them some sales when these "innovations" probably don't add anything that many even want/need. Where people are now just meh it's a phone with a screen, big whoop, forgetting that just a few years ago we were walking around with stone age devices in comparison.
I think gaming is not too different, people scream for innovation, but don't even know what it is they are looking for. Unfair to go, "I don't know what I want, I just want something and you better figure it out game developers!" Or when a company does think outside the box and try it different, everyone screams they want it to be like how it used to be. Never going to please everyone.
As someone who grew up and has played every EQ game since inception...EQnext more closely resembles GW2 (which to me is a shell of an MMO) than any other EQ game.
Your comment about cellphones I don't think fits at all. you're assuming people even care that much on a whole about such a thing or even games for that matter. I for one don't even own a cell phone nor do I feel the need to have one, and I won't be losing any sleep at all if I don't play EQnext or am let down by any video game. I've already told you the type of direction I would have like them to go, and stop with the it's a different genre nonsense...it can be done if a company really wanted to do it. I'm not saying it's the end all be all, but it certainly would be a change, and if used as the groundwork as a complete new system it could be something totally different and new.
To me if you're not going to be the least bit innovative (again in my eyes) why not just make EQ3 and call it a day. The reason they aren't doing that, is the perceived success of games like GW2 so they think if they just copied the same formula and slapped the EQ brand on it they would be all set.
You see the underlying cause for all of this is risk...how much risk, financially, are they(any gaming company) willing to take in development time vs. the perceived profit at the end. As corporations, I would expect them to do nothing less, that is what they do manage risk vs profit, as a gamer that doesn't mean I should like it or not call them out on it. Just because I have a 15 year gaming history with SOE games (mainly EQ) doesn't mean I'm going to blindly just say everything they do is great and they have my undying trust. To the contrary they have done more to damage customer trust, than any gaming company outside of EA in my view and have just started to change that the last few years. So excuse me if I'm the least bit cynical after seeing parts and previews of this game, as I said I'm sure certain people will love it, I probably won't be one of them.
Originally posted by DMKano the fact that they show VIDEOS of EQN instead of actual live gameplay says it all.
I'm a SOE fan but i agree
i was expecting something more than -new- tech demos
No BS, y ou are the first person I've met that advertises being an SOE fan...lol, just caught me by surprise. Anyway, the combat...well...I'll chalk it up as it is Alpha...we need to remember that.
Is the game action combat or tab target? Action I hope.
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Originally posted by DMKano the fact that they show VIDEOS of EQN instead of actual live gameplay says it all.
I'm a SOE fan but i agree
i was expecting something more than -new- tech demos
No BS, y ou are the first person I've met that advertises being an SOE fan...lol, just caught me by surprise. Anyway, the combat...well...I'll chalk it up as it is Alpha...we need to remember that.
Is the game action combat or tab target? Action I hope.
EQNext is aimed combat where a sword will deal damage to everything it hits in a swing, a fire ball will glance enemies close to its trajectory and stuff can be avoided rather easily, etc.
Also, armor is not a static stat that reduce damage taken, it works like the Mass Effect games or Planetside 2 personal shields.
You can see the basic at work "live" in the Landmark Keynotes or wait for August 27th to test it yourself if you have access to the game. Landmark has no class, but the combat system will be quite similar.
As someone who grew up and has played every EQ game since inception...EQnext more closely resembles GW2 (which to me is a shell of an MMO) than any other EQ game.
How so? Started playing EQ in 99, but EQN looks great to me personally. Then again I'm not wanting EQ with updated visuals either.
Your comment about cellphones I don't think fits at all. you're assuming people even care that much on a whole about such a thing or even games for that matter. I for one don't even own a cell phone nor do I feel the need to have one, and I won't be losing any sleep at all if I don't play EQnext or am let down by any video game. I've already told you the type of direction I would have like them to go, and stop with the it's a different genre nonsense...it can be done if a company really wanted to do it. I'm not saying it's the end all be all, but it certainly would be a change, and if used as the groundwork as a complete new system it could be something totally different and new.
Again, you say it can happen but give some examples of what is possible within the boundaries of the genre. Just "I want it to be innovative" or some vague wish doesn't say much.
To me if you're not going to be the least bit innovative (again in my eyes) why not just make EQ3 and call it a day. The reason they aren't doing that, is the perceived success of games like GW2 so they think if they just copied the same formula and slapped the EQ brand on it they would be all set.
What are they copying from GW2? To me, GW2 wasn't that original and a decent chunk of what they had came from other games. I'd at least say EQN is copying those games
You see the underlying cause for all of this is risk...how much risk, financially, are they(any gaming company) willing to take in development time vs. the perceived profit at the end. As corporations, I would expect them to do nothing less, that is what they do manage risk vs profit, as a gamer that doesn't mean I should like it or not call them out on it. Just because I have a 15 year gaming history with SOE games (mainly EQ) doesn't mean I'm going to blindly just say everything they do is great and they have my undying trust. To the contrary they have done more to damage customer trust, than any gaming company outside of EA in my view and have just started to change that the last few years. So excuse me if I'm the least bit cynical after seeing parts and previews of this game, as I said I'm sure certain people will love it, I probably won't be one of them.
I understand, I'm cynical as well in general, but luckily I fall into the "people will love it" category. Simply curious as to where people get their opinions from such as EQN is coping GW2 or is GW2 light or isn't innovative compared to the competition not random other games in other genres.
As someone who grew up and has played every EQ game since inception...EQnext more closely resembles GW2 (which to me is a shell of an MMO) than any other EQ game.
How so? Started playing EQ in 99, but EQN looks great to me personally. Then again I'm not wanting EQ with updated visuals either.
Action combat, visuals look like the same style, to me it's the "dumbing down" of the EQ franchise much like GW2 is a dumbing down of MMO's. It's my opnion, you certainly don't have to agree with it, but that's how I see it.
Your comment about cellphones I don't think fits at all. you're assuming people even care that much on a whole about such a thing or even games for that matter. I for one don't even own a cell phone nor do I feel the need to have one, and I won't be losing any sleep at all if I don't play EQnext or am let down by any video game. I've already told you the type of direction I would have like them to go, and stop with the it's a different genre nonsense...it can be done if a company really wanted to do it. I'm not saying it's the end all be all, but it certainly would be a change, and if used as the groundwork as a complete new system it could be something totally different and new.
Again, you say it can happen but give some examples of what is possible within the boundaries of the genre. Just "I want it to be innovative" or some vague wish doesn't say much.
I don't understand why comparing this to other game mechanics that have multiplayer aspects is an invalid criticism. I'm not comparing to a FPS are Strategy game, I'm comparing it to a game that is an RPG with a multiplayer mechanic. It's not out of the realm that they COULD have done something unique...they decided not too. If your happy with that fine, again enjoy the game I'm sure others will love it as well.
Just not sure why you're defending it and not seeing how they could have done more with it, especially when given a specific example you say people never offer...I offered it yet the answer wasn't to your liking so you dismiss it as invalid. If we don't expect more, we will be destined to get cookie cutter games not just in the MMO genre but in all genre's. Being that it's so corporate today, we may be stuck with cookie cutter games regardless at this point, and if this is all they are going to ffer (they being the game industry) I won't be as apt to spend as much as I used to and will certainly find other things to do with my time.
What I said is very possible in the genre, not sure why you don't think it is...we seem to be talking in circles on this point however and will probably continue to do so.
To me if you're not going to be the least bit innovative (again in my eyes) why not just make EQ3 and call it a day. The reason they aren't doing that, is the perceived success of games like GW2 so they think if they just copied the same formula and slapped the EQ brand on it they would be all set.
What are they copying from GW2? To me, GW2 wasn't that original and a decent chunk of what they had came from other games. I'd at least say EQN is copying those games
See Above....If you're going to copy something and not be innovative, why not copy something you do really well and has been a proven success?
You see the underlying cause for all of this is risk...how much risk, financially, are they(any gaming company) willing to take in development time vs. the perceived profit at the end. As corporations, I would expect them to do nothing less, that is what they do manage risk vs profit, as a gamer that doesn't mean I should like it or not call them out on it. Just because I have a 15 year gaming history with SOE games (mainly EQ) doesn't mean I'm going to blindly just say everything they do is great and they have my undying trust. To the contrary they have done more to damage customer trust, than any gaming company outside of EA in my view and have just started to change that the last few years. So excuse me if I'm the least bit cynical after seeing parts and previews of this game, as I said I'm sure certain people will love it, I probably won't be one of them.
I understand, I'm cynical as well in general, but luckily I fall into the "people will love it" category. Simply curious as to where people get their opinions from such as EQN is coping GW2 or is GW2 light or isn't innovative compared to the competition not random other games in other genres.
I certainly don't judge anyone who is going to like and enjoy this game...to each their own. Life would be boring if we all liked the same stuff. I just don't understand what this offers above and beyond what is already out there (I don't even see how this is an improvement over what EQ2 was on release). As I said before, not going to lose any sleep over it, life is busy enough I'm sure I can find other things to do with my time, by all means if it's your cup of tea enjoy it....as a lifelong EQ fan just giving my critique of what they have given us so far :-)
When i think back to my days in EQ one of the first things i remember is the spell sfx. SoW, Invisibility etc. It was haunting/eerie and sucked you right into the world.
As someone who grew up and has played every EQ game since inception...EQnext more closely resembles GW2 (which to me is a shell of an MMO) than any other EQ game.
How so? Started playing EQ in 99, but EQN looks great to me personally. Then again I'm not wanting EQ with updated visuals either.
Action combat, visuals look like the same style, to me it's the "dumbing down" of the EQ franchise much like GW2 is a dumbing down of MMO's. It's my opnion, you certainly don't have to agree with it, but that's how I see it.
Action combat wasn't created by GW2, just one of the bigger games to bring it. Visuals of GW2 are more Eastern no? First person I've seen make this connection. Everyone else goes the Disney/Pixar route. GW2 is more Eastern fantasy "realism" while EQN is more stylized/cartoony. Visuals are just that though. Game play is what matters to me more.
Your comment about cellphones I don't think fits at all. you're assuming people even care that much on a whole about such a thing or even games for that matter. I for one don't even own a cell phone nor do I feel the need to have one, and I won't be losing any sleep at all if I don't play EQnext or am let down by any video game. I've already told you the type of direction I would have like them to go, and stop with the it's a different genre nonsense...it can be done if a company really wanted to do it. I'm not saying it's the end all be all, but it certainly would be a change, and if used as the groundwork as a complete new system it could be something totally different and new.
Again, you say it can happen but give some examples of what is possible within the boundaries of the genre. Just "I want it to be innovative" or some vague wish doesn't say much.
I don't understand why comparing this to other game mechanics that have multiplayer aspects is an invalid criticism. I'm not comparing to a FPS are Strategy game, I'm comparing it to a game that is an RPG with a multiplayer mechanic. It's not out of the realm that they COULD have done something unique...they decided not too. If your happy with that fine, again enjoy the game I'm sure others will love it as well.
Just not sure why you're defending it and not seeing how they could have done more with it, especially when given a specific example you say people never offer...I offered it yet the answer wasn't to your liking so you dismiss it as invalid. If we don't expect more, we will be destined to get cookie cutter games not just in the MMO genre but in all genre's. Being that it's so corporate today, we may be stuck with cookie cutter games regardless at this point, and if this is all they are going to ffer (they being the game industry) I won't be as apt to spend as much as I used to and will certainly find other things to do with my time.
What I said is very possible in the genre, not sure why you don't think it is...we seem to be talking in circles on this point however and will probably continue to do so.
No need to talk in circles. For me Voxels, Storybricks, very complex Class-Skill-Gear-Progress system, Action Combat, hopefully "good" crafting, "sandbox" like elements, etc all wrapped together is "innovative" enough for me. No other game offers all of that in close competition. Could they do more? Of course, but I have no idea what that could be. Saying X games does Y that has no connection to EQN doesn't mean a lot to me. Now if you said Wildstar did some interesting stuff with CC and EQN should be as creative, I would understand and agree.
To me if you're not going to be the least bit innovative (again in my eyes) why not just make EQ3 and call it a day. The reason they aren't doing that, is the perceived success of games like GW2 so they think if they just copied the same formula and slapped the EQ brand on it they would be all set.
What are they copying from GW2? To me, GW2 wasn't that original and a decent chunk of what they had came from other games. I'd at least say EQN is copying those games
See Above....If you're going to copy something and not be innovative, why not copy something you do really well and has been a proven success?
Again, they aren't "copying" GW2's mechanics. Action Combat doesn't mean anything. EQN's version is a far cry from what GW2 has. Unless you think Tera, Wildstar, GW2, EQN, SMITE, etc all have the exact same system since they are all action combat games. Just as WoW and EQ aren't the same games even though they share many concepts or systems, but are handled completely differently. Saying a game took inspiration from another game or concept works, but "copying" is pretty specific.
You see the underlying cause for all of this is risk...how much risk, financially, are they(any gaming company) willing to take in development time vs. the perceived profit at the end. As corporations, I would expect them to do nothing less, that is what they do manage risk vs profit, as a gamer that doesn't mean I should like it or not call them out on it. Just because I have a 15 year gaming history with SOE games (mainly EQ) doesn't mean I'm going to blindly just say everything they do is great and they have my undying trust. To the contrary they have done more to damage customer trust, than any gaming company outside of EA in my view and have just started to change that the last few years. So excuse me if I'm the least bit cynical after seeing parts and previews of this game, as I said I'm sure certain people will love it, I probably won't be one of them.
I understand, I'm cynical as well in general, but luckily I fall into the "people will love it" category. Simply curious as to where people get their opinions from such as EQN is coping GW2 or is GW2 light or isn't innovative compared to the competition not random other games in other genres.
I certainly don't judge anyone who is going to like and enjoy this game...to each their own. Life would be boring if we all liked the same stuff. I just don't understand what this offers above and beyond what is already out there (I don't even see how this is an improvement over what EQ2 was on release). As I said before, not going to lose any sleep over it, life is busy enough I'm sure I can find other things to do with my time, by all means if it's your cup of tea enjoy it....as a lifelong EQ fan just giving my critique of what they have given us so far :-)
EQ2 didn't have Voxels, Storybricks, Multi-Classing, Action Combat, Horizontal Progress, etc. If any one game was perfect, companies would have no need to keep pumping them out. As you say people like different things. I didn't like EQ2 personally. Also don't like the majority of games or the changes made to the games I did originally enjoy (EQ, DAoC, WoW, WAR, etc). Hence why I'm here.
EQN isn't an improvement over EQ or EQ2, it is a completely different game. They've said this from the start, that EQ/EQ2 will still be there for those that enjoy them. While some will obviously love the new toy on the block. People don't have to like something because it is "better" than something else, it is perfectly fine to enjoy multiple things that might even be complete opposites of one another. I'm a gamer, I enjoy games. I can love EQ and WoW and Street Fighter and Mario...seems some have to pick a side and can't risk stepping outside the safety of the box.
When i think back to my days in EQ one of the first things i remember is the spell sfx. SoW, Invisibility etc. It was haunting/eerie and sucked you right into the world.
Originally posted by DMKano the fact that they show VIDEOS of EQN instead of actual live gameplay says it all.
I'm a SOE fan but i agree
i was expecting something more than -new- tech demos
No BS, y ou are the first person I've met that advertises being an SOE fan...lol, just caught me by surprise.
In lists of top MMO developers SoE comes up fairly often
They have made their share of mistakes, but are falsely blamed for 10x as many. Their games always seem to be poorly optimized and until recently seemed like they lack any organization and no one knows what everyone else is doing. I think Smedley is the scapegoat for this, but a lot falls on the parent company as well, who seems to treat SoE like a red headed step child.
But they have made some great games over the years and have the most diverse stable of any developer. They also aren't afraid to take risks.
It may be a tallest midget case, but I cant think of any multi-mmo developer Id place ahead of them
It may be a tallest midget case, but I cant think of any multi-mmo developer Id place ahead of them
This is a great point to me. SOE has simply been around longer and had more games than most (all?) other companies. They've had a lot more time and chances to screw up and do amazingly well. Unlike some companies that make 1 game that is either a hit or failure and that's the end of it.
Blizzard is the only other I'd really compare to SOE and they only have WoW in their mmorpg lineup. They might have made multiple other popular games over the year, but haven't needed/tried with anything else in the same genre as WoW.
Comments
It didn't look extremely bad. But the biggest problem was how meh it all felt.
That can be attributed to the spammy feeling the attacks had, which was most apparent with the cleric class. My biggest fear for this game is how they'll make the combat interesting with the limited number of hotkeys.
People often call out: "But a small number of interesting abilities is better than a large number of uninteresting ones!" The thing is though: it's not guaranteed that such a small number of abilities will be more interesting, just because there's a small number of them.
If they want to make this work they need to focus on combos. A bit like fighting games which are fun and potentially complex to play on controllers as well.
AKA: more of this and less spamming plz.
Feel free to use my referral link for SW:TOR if you want to test out the game. You'll get some special unlocks!
MMOs finally replaced social interaction, forced grouping and standing in a line while talking to eachother.
Now we have forced soloing, forced questing and everyone is the hero, without ever having to talk to anyone else. The evolution of multiplayer is here! We won,... right?
You really are delusional. It's not just for fans. It's for the gaming press at large. They are trying to sell a product here. The release date doesn't matter either, whether it's released in one month or two years. It still needs to impress potential customers. Your typical fanboy response, "now go back to WoW!" is amusing, and at least i know not to waste anymore time on someone who uses that as their defense of a shitty presentation.
Are Trove and EQN in the same genre or direct competition? Personally don't care if every single element of EQN has been around forever in other games in other genres or even on different systems. I do not know of any other AAA fantasy mmorpg that has all the elements that EQN is shooting for. Some other "sandbox" like games like ArcheAge are bringing a large bag of tricks as well, but they are missing voxels/storybricks and a lot of the western touches that EQN will have.
Is EQN 100% original or going to start some virtual revolution? Probably not. But it will be part of the next generation of games that are already underway. Almost every game on it's way is going for the sandbox, open world, emergent type design. EQN could be at the front of the pack as very few have a large company or enough cash backing them along with the reach of the EQ franchise. Will it drain the life out of WoW and all older games as WoW did? Probably not. But these games will be what people are playing 5, 10, 15 years from now. Along with building games, moba, fps, and whatever else is still popular.
Go fire up Trove and tell me it is something EQN should worry about. Totally different types of games aimed at different players. Difference is I could see Trove/Minecraft players going to EQN/Landmark more so than the other way around. At some point some people might want "more" beyond blocks, despite the gameplay being designed well.
EQN is a virtual world MMORPG
Trove is a Minecraft/RPG hybrid, a better cubeworld
There is a rather enormous difference in scope of the game and they aren't even really in the same genre.
I don't think I've ever done such a 180 on a game in my life. I was so sold on this game when they announced it, and destructible environments and all that good stuff (even the art style wasn't to bad, was waiting to see how it progressed).
Ever since then, it's gone downhill and this is just the coup de grace. Action twitchy combat with this art style...I'm tapping out here.
I'm sure there are folks who will LOVE this game, doesn't look like I will be one of them. Off to wait for the next big thing and hope whatever that is, isn't as disappointing as this has turned out to be so far (Maybe that new Bioware game).
I think they could have done so much more than what they are trying to do, I don't understand why these companies play follow the leader with ideas instead of trying to innovate. Maybe SOE took all their innovation and creative people and dumped them in H1Z1 because it doesn't look like any of them made it to this game.
Storybricks is the single most important part of EQN, and is the key to its success or failure.
So Trove is basically an extremely low tech version of EQN without the complex class mechanics or story bricks, or an engaging virtual world.
Could you give some examples? I see this opinion used a lot, but rarely see any actual "innovative" or original ideas suggested. There is a finite number of ways to do certain things. Such as combat. You got turn based, tab, action tab, action skill shot, etc. Only so many ways to do a skill bar, progress, yadda yadda. Once you start venturing too far outside the "norm" games start turning into different genres and totally different experiences. Not that this is wrong, but if they want to make a fantasy mmorpg with XYZ elements, they do have limits to their choices.
You complain about action combat and the art style. You would like them to use what instead that is innovative?
Here's an action combat MMO from China, called Moonlight Blade, which is still in closed beta: http://youtu.be/9kxwD16hB8Y?t=2m53s
Notice how the spell effects are more subtle, and less obscuring, than EQN. Yes, it's still flashy, but it's not over the top like GW2's effects, or EQN. The only thing that is really obscuring the screen are the damage numbers, which looks ridiculous, and is a major complaint in asian mmos.
In this EQN video, the effects & flashes are too bright and larger than avatars themselves, and the artwork of them looks undesirable. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wsaLHtpFhfw
No word on pets yet beyond they exist, will resemble what we've know from other games, and will utilize the Storybricks AI (I believe). As you said this wasn't a "real" demo of the full game as it is a WIP. I'm assuming they have Pets and other things in the works and aren't going to design classes so that pets become mandatory. Sure they might make mistakes, but game breaking things like this from the start? I'd hope not.
If your targeting concern with pets is not being able to send a pet on something while you beat on something else, maybe that isn't possible, or maybe it is and they have something in place to do it that isn't tab-targeting for the entire game.
If all you watched was 1 panel, check out the rest. Lots of new details, but if it isn't the game for you, it isn't.
Nothing they showed was that "new" from what they hyped or showed since last year. Still the same game, just a bit more explanation and some more examples to go along with it. As I've been saying though, seemed like you didn't like anything about EQN beforehand, not sure what they can do to change your mind. As in, if you hated the art style, doubt you'll ever be convinced it looks good. We like what we like. Hopefully you move on and find a game to enjoy, no reason to stick around and complain about what is.
Well for one thing if you look at what Bioware is going with Shadow Realm (as an example), one person is actually going to be controlling the monsters, traps, etc off screen, almost like a DM.
Yeah that "idea" might have been done years ago when AOL was around, but hasn't been done at all in modern MMO's at the level they are talking about and certainly not to the level where you are going to control dungeons and traps to that extent. That to me is innovation. Sure, they could totally screw it up and it may stink (we haven't seen it yet), but they are at least going with something new. What is this game doing that is even in the same realm?
If I wanted to play GW2 light (which is what this looks like) I would just go back to play GW2 (which I did play when it came out but found the lack of defined roles and...yeah you've heard it all before so I won't bore you with the same complaints). Look I'm being 100% honest I was looking forward to this game bigtime, but everytime I hear or see something about this game...I get less and less impressed to the point where I just don't think it's for me.
Like I said, I'm sure there is an audience that will love the game, and I certainly doj't hope it fails...the more choice we have as gamers the better, It's just not for me.
Shadow Realm is also not the same genre as EQN so options available are no where near the same. There are tiny indie games with crazy new approaches to game play that just aren't possible in a EQN type game. Like I said there are limits even when trying to think outside the box.
Although, they've alluded to players being able to make D&D like experiences in Landmark by creating content (dungeons, mobs, quests, etc). So we might see this in a different SOE game sooner or later.
Looking at the recent games released and other upcoming games, I see very little innovation or even originality. Nothing wrong with that though if the end result is enjoyable. EQN although does seem to have a lot of variety and new takes on traditional systems that other games are staying safe with.
Could you explain the GW2 light though? While I can understand people seeing superficial similarities between the two, if anything I'd say EQN is GW2 on a massive dose of roids, but really not that similar in my eyes.
Sometimes I think we have unfair expectations. Take cellphones for example, within the last few years they've made massive improvements and are now at a point where companies are just trying crazy things hoping it will get them some sales when these "innovations" probably don't add anything that many even want/need. Where people are now just meh it's a phone with a screen, big whoop, forgetting that just a few years ago we were walking around with stone age devices in comparison.
I think gaming is not too different, people scream for innovation, but don't even know what it is they are looking for. Unfair to go, "I don't know what I want, I just want something and you better figure it out game developers!" Or when a company does think outside the box and try it different, everyone screams they want it to be like how it used to be. Never going to please everyone.
Purely visual. I cannot formulate an opinion what so ever yet without detailed presentations about how every single mechanic comes together and what options are ultimately available.
People formulating opinions on such limited presentation (pre-alpha none the less) without playing the game themselves are simply nurturing anxiety.
This is eye candy. Nothing more.
You stay sassy!
As someone who grew up and has played every EQ game since inception...EQnext more closely resembles GW2 (which to me is a shell of an MMO) than any other EQ game.
Your comment about cellphones I don't think fits at all. you're assuming people even care that much on a whole about such a thing or even games for that matter. I for one don't even own a cell phone nor do I feel the need to have one, and I won't be losing any sleep at all if I don't play EQnext or am let down by any video game. I've already told you the type of direction I would have like them to go, and stop with the it's a different genre nonsense...it can be done if a company really wanted to do it. I'm not saying it's the end all be all, but it certainly would be a change, and if used as the groundwork as a complete new system it could be something totally different and new.
To me if you're not going to be the least bit innovative (again in my eyes) why not just make EQ3 and call it a day. The reason they aren't doing that, is the perceived success of games like GW2 so they think if they just copied the same formula and slapped the EQ brand on it they would be all set.
You see the underlying cause for all of this is risk...how much risk, financially, are they(any gaming company) willing to take in development time vs. the perceived profit at the end. As corporations, I would expect them to do nothing less, that is what they do manage risk vs profit, as a gamer that doesn't mean I should like it or not call them out on it. Just because I have a 15 year gaming history with SOE games (mainly EQ) doesn't mean I'm going to blindly just say everything they do is great and they have my undying trust. To the contrary they have done more to damage customer trust, than any gaming company outside of EA in my view and have just started to change that the last few years. So excuse me if I'm the least bit cynical after seeing parts and previews of this game, as I said I'm sure certain people will love it, I probably won't be one of them.
No BS, y ou are the first person I've met that advertises being an SOE fan...lol, just caught me by surprise. Anyway, the combat...well...I'll chalk it up as it is Alpha...we need to remember that.
Is the game action combat or tab target? Action I hope.
Incognito
www.incognito-gaming.us
"You're either with us or against us"
EQNext is aimed combat where a sword will deal damage to everything it hits in a swing, a fire ball will glance enemies close to its trajectory and stuff can be avoided rather easily, etc.
Also, armor is not a static stat that reduce damage taken, it works like the Mass Effect games or Planetside 2 personal shields.
You can see the basic at work "live" in the Landmark Keynotes or wait for August 27th to test it yourself if you have access to the game. Landmark has no class, but the combat system will be quite similar.
When i think back to my days in EQ one of the first things i remember is the spell sfx. SoW, Invisibility etc. It was haunting/eerie and sucked you right into the world.
Seems like EQ3 is just wack wack wack
wack wack.
i dislike action combat in a mmo
but otherwise i like EQN features
EQ2 fan sites
In lists of top MMO developers SoE comes up fairly often
They have made their share of mistakes, but are falsely blamed for 10x as many. Their games always seem to be poorly optimized and until recently seemed like they lack any organization and no one knows what everyone else is doing. I think Smedley is the scapegoat for this, but a lot falls on the parent company as well, who seems to treat SoE like a red headed step child.
But they have made some great games over the years and have the most diverse stable of any developer. They also aren't afraid to take risks.
It may be a tallest midget case, but I cant think of any multi-mmo developer Id place ahead of them
This is a great point to me. SOE has simply been around longer and had more games than most (all?) other companies. They've had a lot more time and chances to screw up and do amazingly well. Unlike some companies that make 1 game that is either a hit or failure and that's the end of it.
Blizzard is the only other I'd really compare to SOE and they only have WoW in their mmorpg lineup. They might have made multiple other popular games over the year, but haven't needed/tried with anything else in the same genre as WoW.