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ESO is 50% off, 3 months post release.

MkilbrideMkilbride Hooksett, NHPosts: 637Member Uncommon

That doesn't seem good to me. It reminds of me of Rift, and Defiance, both which had a 50% off sale within 3 months, then a 75% off one within 6. Then Rift hung on for abit, somehow, then went F2P and is now dying. Defiance recently went F2P after a year of struggling and price cuts. Defiance started at 60$, and by Christmas, it was 5$.

Granted, this has an established franchise, but the thing I am hearing is not good. Is F2P on the horizon? Potentially B2P like TSW? I'd like B2P. I might pick it up then. Rather than have the hardcore F2P Restrictions of SWTOR. SWTOR didn't even take a year.

I think the sub model can still work, I am not one who thinks all games should be F2P, or that F2P games are superior.

But this game will most definitely go F2P or B2P soon. There is also the possibility of it surprising us all and actually shutting down within two years. I know of no friends who bought at release who played past their first month.  Every article about it is doom and gloom, little boom.

 

I played the beta myself and did not find it to fun, not enough for 60$ + a sub fee myself. Maybe it got better, but three hours in I was literally forcing myself to continue, the story was interesting until you got out of the hell dimension, then I was just kinda...ehh. Though I did get an odd GW1 vibe from it. Dunno.

 

Still, it is concerning. I may not like the game, but I want more sub mmorpgs to succeed, because I've just not found a F2P MMORPG I can really stomach in a long time. The restrictions are either insane, or the cash shop offers such advantage that by contrast, you feel annoyed what you are missing out on and it dampens the experience.

Help get Camelot Unchained made, a old-school MMORPG, with no hand holding!

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/13861848/camelot-unchained

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Comments

  • DMKanoDMKano Gamercentral, AKPosts: 8,564Member Uncommon

    Seems pretty normal to me.

    They're a sub game - so if they can get any player to sub for 3 months - that's the box price right there - so IMO might as well give the game away for free in hopes of converting a customer to a subscriber.

    ESO will go F2P at some point - it's inevitable IMO.

    P2P model for new games is on the way out.

    Just because EvE and WoW can pull it off - (established playerbase) - it's *very* hard for new MMOs to do the same.

    Wildstar is next.

  • TankYou88TankYou88 , ALPosts: 310Member
    My walmart had it for $9.99 a month after release. 
  • PurutzilPurutzil East Stroudsburg, PAPosts: 2,925Member Uncommon

    Honestly 50% off isn't THAT crazy for an MMo that came out 3 months ago (particularly if you mention the insane price lowering at retailers trying to get rid of the overstock of the game forl ike $10). I contribute the issue less about "F2P" and far more with an over-saturation in the MMo market. Its the fact there are so many that it makes it far more difficult to stay tall despite how good your game is. Sure, F2P is making it a bit harder, but the abundance of games out there I think really is the main culprit. 

     

    Box prices i feel will remain at $60. The game industry has done a good job raking in cash from those impatient to buying their games and getting them when they first come out, before dropping it to try and get those hesitant involved. The MMo market is no different and its likely a trend that will continue through its lifespan.  Sub games will see this drop sooner rather later then box games probably will find 'value' in their game longer, despite games like GW2 and TSW making a killing off their cash shop more so then a subscription would yield (don't like B2P fool you, they are making a LOT more money off the model with the cash shop then they let on). It might lead to more B2P games due to this ability to give "reasoning" for a higher price for longer, but I doubt it will shift sub games completely away.

  • DMKanoDMKano Gamercentral, AKPosts: 8,564Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Purutzil

     

    Box prices i feel will remain at $60. The game industry has done a good job raking in cash from those impatient to buying their games and getting them when they first come out, before dropping it to try and get those hesitant involved. The MMo market is no different and its likely a trend that will continue through its lifespan. 

    I think that boxed copies are on the way out.

    Not only because physical media is becoming less popular, but because retail shelf space is not cheap - those unsold copies of physical game really hurt the profits (cost of manufacturing + cost of shelf space + cost of having to buy back unsold copies at full retail price from stores)

    I think MMO companies are getting wiser about this - and just going 100% digital route.

     

     

  • dreamscaperdreamscaper Somewhere, NCPosts: 1,582Member Uncommon

    And yet, almost a year after release, Final Fantasy XIV is still gaining subscribers and doesn't even have F2P as a blip on its radar.

     

    P2P is still viable, despite what the F2P junkies will try to tell you.

    <3

  • HaralinHaralin KölnPosts: 110Member

    Yes if games are good P2P can work Eso should do the same like Final Fantasy XIV it should relaunch the game with console launch. So every one has the same start.

     

    They can still let the people play for free or half the monthly cost for beta testing and at the End of the Year launch the game new with char wipe and give the Playerbase who subbed 2 Month for free and some shiny cosmetical items like a badass looking armor or something ;)

  • ClywdClywd HeidenheimPosts: 258Member Uncommon
    There is an abundance of solo-quest and pvp or raid mmorpgs right now, none of them making fun for more than 3 months. There is nothing wrong for turning those cash grabs to f2p. Long lasting enjoyable games are still and will be forever p2p (or freemium, like my eq1). So, dear questhubbers, please hop on now to the next messias and don't downtalk good old ESO :-)

    Currently playing: EQ1
    Ruptura Draconis
    Waiting for Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen

  • fivorothfivoroth LondonPosts: 3,665Member Uncommon
    Doesnt mean anything.

    Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.

  • naaminaami Dallas, TXPosts: 163Member Common
    I always thought that the retailer can sell it for whatever price they want and that the developer/publisher only gives the suggested retail price. So it doesn't necessarily mean that zenimax lowered the price. Btw this sale price of $30 on steam is only for this weekend because of Quakecon. In about 10 hrs it'll be $60 again.
  • MkilbrideMkilbride Hooksett, NHPosts: 637Member Uncommon

    Steam is not the only place having it on sale for 30$, various vendors are still.

     

    GW2 took almost a year before it had a half off sale and hasn't had one since. B2P, but still. They're very successful, though it is hardly a MMORPG.

    Help get Camelot Unchained made, a old-school MMORPG, with no hand holding!

    http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/13861848/camelot-unchained

  • DistopiaDistopia Baltimore, MDPosts: 16,915Member Uncommon
    Heh, 50% off seems good to me.

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

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  • zwei2zwei2 SingaporePosts: 361Member

    It is no longer early 2000s, where games are still sold in big boxes and CD-ROMs, and all the heavy cost to publish, to ship and to be sold in stores.

     

    Games are now sold online, which can be cheap, since it cuts most of the costly routes, save the producing cost and marketing cost. It may still be profitable to be sold at 50% off, it may not. Nobody really know. All that matters is gamers can get to enjoy paying at a huge discount for this game image

    The possibility of the universe collapsing into a singularity is higher than the birth of a perfect MMORPG.

  • gothmog99zgothmog99z , NYPosts: 22Member
    Originally posted by dreamscaper

    And yet, almost a year after release, Final Fantasy XIV is still gaining subscribers and doesn't even have F2P as a blip on its radar.

     

    P2P is still viable, despite what the F2P junkies will try to tell you.

    ftp is code for ptw,in every case they have to have something you NEED to play and they sell that.when i first started ptw games i loved them,than i noticed,the need to buy stuff ,yes you can play with out paying a dime but you do not get all the benefits.sub games you have access to all,which is one the the reasons i hate eso,it is a hybrid a sub with a store,even with a sub you still do not have access tho the whole game.you have to buy stuff.i think that will kill the game.

  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Stone Mountain, GAPosts: 13,674Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by zwei2

    It is no longer early 2000s, where games are still sold in big boxes and CD-ROMs, and all the heavy cost to publish, to ship and to be sold in stores.

    Games are now sold online, which can be cheap, since it cuts most of the costly routes, save the producing cost and marketing cost. It may still be profitable to be sold at 50% off, it may not. Nobody really know. All that matters is gamers can get to enjoy paying at a huge discount for this game image

    Yeap. Boxes cost a LOT, plus there's competition for shelf space... and shipping... and relying on publishers...

    It's a client-distribution vampire that sucks both the money and life out of your team. However, there's also the basic fact that the initial price of anything new is a lot higher to recoup RnD or pay back investors, and the price drops drastically after that. 

    One would think that after a couple years of posts of "[MMO] came out a few months ago and now the price dropped" that eventually forum posters would catch on. There is the crowd that will pay two or three times the price before it even ships, the crowd that will pay the current price point at release, and then the crowd that will pay the far less ridiculous price a few months later. Yes, $40-$60 for the client for a subscription service is pretty damn ridiculous. They need you to have the client in order to make any further money. It takes the gaming consumers to fix that one, though. 

     

     

     

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
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  • SovrathSovrath Boston Area, MAPosts: 18,462Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Mkilbride

    Steam is not the only place having it on sale for 30$, various vendors are still.

     

    GW2 took almost a year before it had a half off sale and hasn't had one since. B2P, but still. They're very successful, though it is hardly a MMORPG.

    The leap I would have made is that Guild Wars 2 makes most of its money through box sales therefore it's a greater imperative to keep their box at the same price.

    They then have a cash shop where they hope to make additional funds.

    Elderscrolls Online wants to make back its investment but at some point it's more important to get subscribers than selling initial boxes for their original price.

  • CrazKanukCrazKanuk Elmira, ONPosts: 2,499Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Mkilbride


    But this game will most definitely go F2P or B2P soon. There is also the possibility of it surprising us all and actually shutting down within two years. I know of no friends who bought at release who played past their first month.  Every article about it is doom and gloom, little boom.

     

    Well based on your expert analysis and massive data sampling, this must be correct. 

     

    TBH, linking box price to success is possibly the dumbest thing you can do with a P2P game. Based on your logic, Final Fantasy is going to be going F2P 2 times faster than ESO because I saw it on sale on Steam for $15 and, therefore, it must be 75% of the way towards being F2P. 

     

    The reality is that box prices are on a sliding scale. As long as there is significant demand they'll remain at $60. However, as soon as new subscribers falls off, box prices will get lowered. It's a sliding scale, though. Remember, it's a P2P game, so their money is made on the backend, which means getting new players through the door.

     

    For P2P, I actually wouldn't mind seeing more companies offering the game for free at launch with a subscription. I know they try to re-coop lots of their costs up-front with that box price, but I think it would actually work well. 

    Crazkanuk

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  • AmjocoAmjoco Layton, UTPosts: 4,782Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by DMKano

    Seems pretty normal to me.

    They're a sub game - so if they can get any player to sub for 3 months - that's the box price right there - so IMO might as well give the game away for free in hopes of converting a customer to a subscriber.

    ESO will go F2P at some point - it's inevitable IMO.

    P2P model for new games is on the way out.

    Just because EvE and WoW can pull it off - (established playerbase) - it's *very* hard for new MMOs to do the same.

    Wildstar is next.

    Is this based off of your personal dislike for the game, or the fact that it has a very high score on website reviews and community ratings? 

    Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.

  • gervaise1gervaise1 .Posts: 2,082Member Uncommon

    From Zenimax's perspective the reduction on Steam is more than 50%. There are some costs involved even in digital distribution e.g. financial transaction charges and Steam will want to make a profit as well.

    However as Loktofeit says digital distribution is - relatively - inexpensive so they will probably get some money back even with 50% off.

    And as DMKano says if they get some additional subscribers then that will be more revenue. So they may be happy to go with an even bigger discount.

    B2P games - as Sovarth says - are somewhat different as the box price is the source of revenue and then follow on xpacs etc. The assumption in the financial model being that they will sell more copies since the game doesn't have a sub. 

  • wangkomwangkom Leesburg, VAPosts: 119Member
    LOL They are just trying to get more subscribers, if you go to the store and buy a product thats on sale, do you automatically think there is something wrong with that item ? of course not, they are just trying to get more people to give the product a try and who knows, maybe they will like it and keep buying it and in this case keep playing it.
  • FoobarxFoobarx Poway, CAPosts: 451Member

    "The prey helplessly hobbles through the woods as the hunter zeroes in..."

     

    All we need is Marlin Perkins with a dart gun in a helicopter to complete the ensemble.

     

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  • tawesstawess LkpgPosts: 2,536Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Mkilbride

    Steam is not the only place having it on sale for 30$, various vendors are still.

     

    GW2 took almost a year before it had a half off sale and hasn't had one since. B2P, but still. They're very successful, though it is hardly a MMORPG.

     

    Well there is a difference...

    Buy2P = all incomes from boxes and cash shop

    Subscribe2P= main income comes from subscription and if used micro transactions. Box income are not very important at all.

     

    So games like ESO and WildStar gain a lot more from lowering the bar of entry (box price) and then make up said loss in added subscriptions.

  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Stone Mountain, GAPosts: 13,674Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Foobarx

    "The prey helplessly hobbles through the woods as the hunter zeroes in..."

     

    All we need is Marlin Perkins with a dart gun in a helicopter to complete the ensemble.

     

    And now, a word from our sponsor...

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

  • BigdaddyxBigdaddyx California, WAPosts: 1,986Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by dreamscaper

    And yet, almost a year after release, Final Fantasy XIV is still gaining subscribers and doesn't even have F2P as a blip on its radar.

     

    P2P is still viable, despite what the F2P junkies will try to tell you.

    FFXIV has in house investors. Not all companies are  that lucky to have deep pockets like SE.

  • TorvalTorval Oregon CountryPosts: 7,221Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Sovrath
    Originally posted by Mkilbride

    Steam is not the only place having it on sale for 30$, various vendors are still.

     

    GW2 took almost a year before it had a half off sale and hasn't had one since. B2P, but still. They're very successful, though it is hardly a MMORPG.

    The leap I would have made is that Guild Wars 2 makes most of its money through box sales therefore it's a greater imperative to keep their box at the same price.

    They then have a cash shop where they hope to make additional funds.

    Elderscrolls Online wants to make back its investment but at some point it's more important to get subscribers than selling initial boxes for their original price.

    Posts like this restore my faith that critical thinking isn't dead. It's weird that this escapes so many people here, or do they simply choose to ignore it? Either way, good post. /thread

  • MkilbrideMkilbride Hooksett, NHPosts: 637Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by wangkom
    LOL They are just trying to get more subscribers, if you go to the store and buy a product thats on sale, do you automatically think there is something wrong with that item ? of course not, they are just trying to get more people to give the product a try and who knows, maybe they will like it and keep buying it and in this case keep playing it.

    Most people do not go past their first month.

     

    Also, FFXIV is a terrible example. You are comparing a game that failed, and re-launched, with everyone from 1.0 getting a copy, and the game started out for 25$ on sale, with 29.99 MSRP. Going on sale for 15$ is no big deal for a 4 year old game.

    Help get Camelot Unchained made, a old-school MMORPG, with no hand holding!

    http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/13861848/camelot-unchained

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