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Kickstarter Exposed ?

CrusadesCrusades Columbus, OHPosts: 480Member

http://www.gamespot.com/videos/the-point-yogscasts-cancelled-kickstarter-the-miss/2300-6420305/


//

With no actual successful kickstarter funded mmorpgs available - will the video from GameSpot above become a broken record? I suspect yogacast isn't the only one squandering your money.

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Comments

  • vgamervgamer Texas, IAPosts: 195Member
    Originally posted by allday88

    I think kickstarter is nothing more than a scam.  You have oculus taking millions turning that around into billion, what did the kickstart supporters get?  NOTHING!  The supports say it's like sharktank or any investment.  Well for those who actually invest yes for kickstarter NO.  Tell me which shark would put money into something with a guarantee of ZERO return in investment?  Which one would do that?  Let me tell you none.  

     

     

    I used to view kickstarter like that but lately I think kickstarter is the best thing that has every happened since sliced bread. Essentially, it is a way of taking money from those who are obviously going to squander it anyway and put it into the hands of more capable persons. So resources won't go to waste. Win/Win I'd say.

  • TankYou88TankYou88 , ALPosts: 310Member
    Originally posted by allday88

    I think kickstarter is nothing more than a scam.  You have oculus taking millions turning that around into billion, what did the kickstart supporters get?  NOTHING!  The supports say it's like sharktank or any investment.  Well for those who actually invest yes for kickstarter NO.  Tell me which shark would put money into something with a guarantee of ZERO return in investment?  Which one would do that?  Let me tell you none.  

     

     

    There are episodes of shark tank where people who been on kickstarter come on the show and get invested in...So I guess not none.

    There is a guarantee as well, they are bound by law to produce something to give to their backers. If not they can be taken to court. If you check out their FAQ it says they sign something before hand, only problem is kickstarter will not get involved if they think the company actually tried producing something, meaning the mass would have to take them to court by themselves.

  • CrusadesCrusades Columbus, OHPosts: 480Member
    Originally posted by TankYou88

    Originally posted by allday88
    I think kickstarter is nothing more than a scam.  You have oculus taking millions turning that around into billion, what did the kickstart supporters get?  NOTHING!  The supports say it's like sharktank or any investment.  Well for those who actually invest yes for kickstarter NO.  Tell me which shark would put money into something with a guarantee of ZERO return in investment?  Which one would do that?  Let me tell you none.      

    There are episodes of shark tank where people who been on kickstarter come on the show and get invested in...So I guess not none.

    There is a guarantee as well, they are bound by law to produce something to give to their backers. If not they can be taken to court. If you check out their FAQ it says they sign something before hand, only problem is kickstarter will not get involved if they think the company actually tried producing something, meaning the mass would have to take them to court by themselves.

     

    Has kickstarter ever taken someone seeking funding to court? Masses taking them to court is a failure. In the meantime they live extravagant lives and squander your money and the just walk away from it all when shit hits the fan. Post a 5 minute progress video and then grab a beer and head back out to the beach partying it up.
  • TankYou88TankYou88 , ALPosts: 310Member
    Originally posted by Crusades
    Originally posted by TankYou88
    Originally posted by allday88

    I think kickstarter is nothing more than a scam.  You have oculus taking millions turning that around into billion, what did the kickstart supporters get?  NOTHING!  The supports say it's like sharktank or any investment.  Well for those who actually invest yes for kickstarter NO.  Tell me which shark would put money into something with a guarantee of ZERO return in investment?  Which one would do that?  Let me tell you none.  

     

     

    There are episodes of shark tank where people who been on kickstarter come on the show and get invested in...So I guess not none.

    There is a guarantee as well, they are bound by law to produce something to give to their backers. If not they can be taken to court. If you check out their FAQ it says they sign something before hand, only problem is kickstarter will not get involved if they think the company actually tried producing something, meaning the mass would have to take them to court by themselves.

     

    Has kickstarter ever taken someone seeking funding to court? Masses taking them to court is a failure. In the meantime they live extravagant lives and squander your money and the just walk away from it all when shit hits the fan. Post a 5 minute progress video and then grab a beer and head back out to the beach partying it up.

    It looks like only one company has been sued before and the state of Washington took up that claim. http://www.geekwire.com/2014/attorney-general-asylum-playing-cards-crowdfunded-project/

  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Stone Mountain, GAPosts: 13,675Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by TankYou88
    Originally posted by allday88

    I think kickstarter is nothing more than a scam.  You have oculus taking millions turning that around into billion, what did the kickstart supporters get?  NOTHING!  The supports say it's like sharktank or any investment.  Well for those who actually invest yes for kickstarter NO.  Tell me which shark would put money into something with a guarantee of ZERO return in investment?  Which one would do that?  Let me tell you none.   

    There are episodes of shark tank where people who been on kickstarter come on the show and get invested in...So I guess not none.

    Yes, NONE. You're confusing investing with funding.

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

  • ryvendarkryvendark vancouver, BCPosts: 141Member
    Originally posted by TankYou88
    Originally posted by allday88

    I think kickstarter is nothing more than a scam.  You have oculus taking millions turning that around into billion, what did the kickstart supporters get?  NOTHING!  The supports say it's like sharktank or any investment.  Well for those who actually invest yes for kickstarter NO.  Tell me which shark would put money into something with a guarantee of ZERO return in investment?  Which one would do that?  Let me tell you none.  

     

     

    There are episodes of shark tank where people who been on kickstarter come on the show and get invested in...So I guess not none.

    There is a guarantee as well, they are bound by law to produce something to give to their backers. If not they can be taken to court. If you check out their FAQ it says they sign something before hand, only problem is kickstarter will not get involved if they think the company actually tried producing something, meaning the mass would have to take them to court by themselves.

    Shark tank invests so regardless of the kickstarter or not they are not giving them money like kickstarter did. When a kickstarter company starts to offer profit sharing with its backers, then they'll be on the same ground as shark tank ( kind of )

    And one example of the state filing a lawsuit really doesn't open the doors wide on making sure a kickstater always delivers. If a kickstarter could show they actually used that money on the game but just ran out of funding there is nothing anyone could do to them in a court. The kickstarter that is getting sued produced nothing and has no evidence that they even worked on their project.

  • TankYou88TankYou88 , ALPosts: 310Member
    Originally posted by ryvendark
    Originally posted by TankYou88
    Originally posted by allday88

    I think kickstarter is nothing more than a scam.  You have oculus taking millions turning that around into billion, what did the kickstart supporters get?  NOTHING!  The supports say it's like sharktank or any investment.  Well for those who actually invest yes for kickstarter NO.  Tell me which shark would put money into something with a guarantee of ZERO return in investment?  Which one would do that?  Let me tell you none.  

     

     

    There are episodes of shark tank where people who been on kickstarter come on the show and get invested in...So I guess not none.

    There is a guarantee as well, they are bound by law to produce something to give to their backers. If not they can be taken to court. If you check out their FAQ it says they sign something before hand, only problem is kickstarter will not get involved if they think the company actually tried producing something, meaning the mass would have to take them to court by themselves.

    Shark tank invests so regardless of the kickstarter or not they are not giving them money like kickstarter did. When a kickstarter company starts to offer profit sharing with its backers, then they'll be on the same ground as shark tank ( kind of )

    And one example of the state filing a lawsuit really doesn't open the doors wide on making sure a kickstater always delivers. If a kickstarter could show they actually used that money on the game but just ran out of funding there is nothing anyone could do to them in a court. The kickstarter that is getting sued produced nothing and has no evidence that they even worked on their project.

    Isnt it the exact same thing? I invest $20, I either get a return on my investment for a $50-60 game, or the game doesnt produce anything and you lose out on your investment.

    How is that different from investing in a company? Someone invests in a company and a a deal is made, if the company does well they get about a 20-30% return on your investment. If the company tanks you get nothing.

    So with kickstarter you get a 200-300% return on your investment,  investing in a company you get a 20-30% return.

  • UproarUproar Canton, MIPosts: 520Member Uncommon
    Why all the hate?   I think you guys just don't understand what is being 'purchased'.  I've been very happy with it so far.

    image

  • WizardryWizardry Ontario, CanadaPosts: 8,464Member Uncommon

    I have to admit  i was a HUGE Yogcast fan i found their work very entertaining.

    This however is very unprofessional and enough to get me to never pay attention to them ever again.The term i like to use a lot is >>>MISLEADING,i see it on this site a lot and in typical marketing/advertising ventures.

    I have always treated the word misleading the same way,if someone is trying to mislead me even slightly i cannot trust them at all.

    IMO it is still up to the spender,no different than buying a finished video game on a whim.DO your research and don't fund anything until it is done is the intelligent way to manage your money.I guess there are thousands of people who don't really care about a few dollars vanishing into thin air,i see such donations and subscribing in Twitch.tv all the time.

    IMO  the naive and the misleading both deserve what they get in terms of being scolded or flamed.


    Samoan Diamond

  • PioneerStewPioneerStew londonPosts: 874Member
    Originally posted by TankYou88
    Originally posted by ryvendark
    Originally posted by TankYou88
    Originally posted by allday88

    I think kickstarter is nothing more than a scam.  You have oculus taking millions turning that around into billion, what did the kickstart supporters get?  NOTHING!  The supports say it's like sharktank or any investment.  Well for those who actually invest yes for kickstarter NO.  Tell me which shark would put money into something with a guarantee of ZERO return in investment?  Which one would do that?  Let me tell you none.  

     

     

    There are episodes of shark tank where people who been on kickstarter come on the show and get invested in...So I guess not none.

    There is a guarantee as well, they are bound by law to produce something to give to their backers. If not they can be taken to court. If you check out their FAQ it says they sign something before hand, only problem is kickstarter will not get involved if they think the company actually tried producing something, meaning the mass would have to take them to court by themselves.

    Shark tank invests so regardless of the kickstarter or not they are not giving them money like kickstarter did. When a kickstarter company starts to offer profit sharing with its backers, then they'll be on the same ground as shark tank ( kind of )

    And one example of the state filing a lawsuit really doesn't open the doors wide on making sure a kickstater always delivers. If a kickstarter could show they actually used that money on the game but just ran out of funding there is nothing anyone could do to them in a court. The kickstarter that is getting sued produced nothing and has no evidence that they even worked on their project.

    Isnt it the exact same thing? I invest $20, I either get a return on my investment for a $50-60 game, or the game doesnt produce anything and you lose out on your investment.

    How is that different from investing in a company? Someone invests in a company and a a deal is made, if the company does well they get about a 20-30% return on your investment. If the company tanks you get nothing.

    So with kickstarter you get a 200-300% return on your investment,  investing in a company you get a 20-30% return.

    Correct me if I am wrong, but kickstarter is not an investment.  You pay money towards a game that may or may not materialise, and if it does may or may not match (the usually over-stated) description.  

    An investment is a risk with the possibility of huge rewards.  Kickstarter is a risk WITHOUT the possibility of huge rewards.  

  • TankYou88TankYou88 , ALPosts: 310Member
    Originally posted by PioneerStew
    Originally posted by TankYou88
    Originally posted by ryvendark
    Originally posted by TankYou88
    Originally posted by allday88

    I think kickstarter is nothing more than a scam.  You have oculus taking millions turning that around into billion, what did the kickstart supporters get?  NOTHING!  The supports say it's like sharktank or any investment.  Well for those who actually invest yes for kickstarter NO.  Tell me which shark would put money into something with a guarantee of ZERO return in investment?  Which one would do that?  Let me tell you none.  

     

     

    There are episodes of shark tank where people who been on kickstarter come on the show and get invested in...So I guess not none.

    There is a guarantee as well, they are bound by law to produce something to give to their backers. If not they can be taken to court. If you check out their FAQ it says they sign something before hand, only problem is kickstarter will not get involved if they think the company actually tried producing something, meaning the mass would have to take them to court by themselves.

    Shark tank invests so regardless of the kickstarter or not they are not giving them money like kickstarter did. When a kickstarter company starts to offer profit sharing with its backers, then they'll be on the same ground as shark tank ( kind of )

    And one example of the state filing a lawsuit really doesn't open the doors wide on making sure a kickstater always delivers. If a kickstarter could show they actually used that money on the game but just ran out of funding there is nothing anyone could do to them in a court. The kickstarter that is getting sued produced nothing and has no evidence that they even worked on their project.

    Isnt it the exact same thing? I invest $20, I either get a return on my investment for a $50-60 game, or the game doesnt produce anything and you lose out on your investment.

    How is that different from investing in a company? Someone invests in a company and a a deal is made, if the company does well they get about a 20-30% return on your investment. If the company tanks you get nothing.

    So with kickstarter you get a 200-300% return on your investment,  investing in a company you get a 20-30% return.

    Correct me if I am wrong, but kickstarter is not an investment.  You pay money towards a game that may or may not materialise, and if it does may or may not match (the usually over-stated) description.  

    An investment is a risk with the possibility of huge rewards.  Kickstarter is a risk WITHOUT the possibility of huge rewards.  

    I think 200-300% return on your investment is a huge reward. That is considered a great investment among any investor.

  • PioneerStewPioneerStew londonPosts: 874Member
    Originally posted by TankYou88
    Originally posted by PioneerStew
    Originally posted by TankYou88
    Originally posted by ryvendark
    Originally posted by TankYou88
    Originally posted by allday88

    I think kickstarter is nothing more than a scam.  You have oculus taking millions turning that around into billion, what did the kickstart supporters get?  NOTHING!  The supports say it's like sharktank or any investment.  Well for those who actually invest yes for kickstarter NO.  Tell me which shark would put money into something with a guarantee of ZERO return in investment?  Which one would do that?  Let me tell you none.  

     

     

    There are episodes of shark tank where people who been on kickstarter come on the show and get invested in...So I guess not none.

    There is a guarantee as well, they are bound by law to produce something to give to their backers. If not they can be taken to court. If you check out their FAQ it says they sign something before hand, only problem is kickstarter will not get involved if they think the company actually tried producing something, meaning the mass would have to take them to court by themselves.

    Shark tank invests so regardless of the kickstarter or not they are not giving them money like kickstarter did. When a kickstarter company starts to offer profit sharing with its backers, then they'll be on the same ground as shark tank ( kind of )

    And one example of the state filing a lawsuit really doesn't open the doors wide on making sure a kickstater always delivers. If a kickstarter could show they actually used that money on the game but just ran out of funding there is nothing anyone could do to them in a court. The kickstarter that is getting sued produced nothing and has no evidence that they even worked on their project.

    Isnt it the exact same thing? I invest $20, I either get a return on my investment for a $50-60 game, or the game doesnt produce anything and you lose out on your investment.

    How is that different from investing in a company? Someone invests in a company and a a deal is made, if the company does well they get about a 20-30% return on your investment. If the company tanks you get nothing.

    So with kickstarter you get a 200-300% return on your investment,  investing in a company you get a 20-30% return.

    Correct me if I am wrong, but kickstarter is not an investment.  You pay money towards a game that may or may not materialise, and if it does may or may not match (the usually over-stated) description.  

    An investment is a risk with the possibility of huge rewards.  Kickstarter is a risk WITHOUT the possibility of huge rewards.  

    I think 200-300% return on your investment is a huge reward. That is considered a great investment among any investor.

    What are you referring to?  If you are referring to an arbitrary price that a developer attaches to a game, that is not a return on an investment.  A return on an investment is taking a share of the profits made.  

  • TankYou88TankYou88 , ALPosts: 310Member
    Originally posted by PioneerStew
    Originally posted by TankYou88
    Originally posted by PioneerStew
    Originally posted by TankYou88
    Originally posted by ryvendark
    Originally posted by TankYou88
    Originally posted by allday88

    I think kickstarter is nothing more than a scam.  You have oculus taking millions turning that around into billion, what did the kickstart supporters get?  NOTHING!  The supports say it's like sharktank or any investment.  Well for those who actually invest yes for kickstarter NO.  Tell me which shark would put money into something with a guarantee of ZERO return in investment?  Which one would do that?  Let me tell you none.  

     

     

    There are episodes of shark tank where people who been on kickstarter come on the show and get invested in...So I guess not none.

    There is a guarantee as well, they are bound by law to produce something to give to their backers. If not they can be taken to court. If you check out their FAQ it says they sign something before hand, only problem is kickstarter will not get involved if they think the company actually tried producing something, meaning the mass would have to take them to court by themselves.

    Shark tank invests so regardless of the kickstarter or not they are not giving them money like kickstarter did. When a kickstarter company starts to offer profit sharing with its backers, then they'll be on the same ground as shark tank ( kind of )

    And one example of the state filing a lawsuit really doesn't open the doors wide on making sure a kickstater always delivers. If a kickstarter could show they actually used that money on the game but just ran out of funding there is nothing anyone could do to them in a court. The kickstarter that is getting sued produced nothing and has no evidence that they even worked on their project.

    Isnt it the exact same thing? I invest $20, I either get a return on my investment for a $50-60 game, or the game doesnt produce anything and you lose out on your investment.

    How is that different from investing in a company? Someone invests in a company and a a deal is made, if the company does well they get about a 20-30% return on your investment. If the company tanks you get nothing.

    So with kickstarter you get a 200-300% return on your investment,  investing in a company you get a 20-30% return.

    Correct me if I am wrong, but kickstarter is not an investment.  You pay money towards a game that may or may not materialise, and if it does may or may not match (the usually over-stated) description.  

    An investment is a risk with the possibility of huge rewards.  Kickstarter is a risk WITHOUT the possibility of huge rewards.  

    I think 200-300% return on your investment is a huge reward. That is considered a great investment among any investor.

    What are you referring to?  If you are referring to an arbitrary price that a developer attaches to a game, that is not a return on an investment.  A return on an investment is taking a share of the profits made.  

    Yes. The share of the profit is the game created, its the share you agreed on before hand like any investment.

  • PioneerStewPioneerStew londonPosts: 874Member
    Originally posted by TankYou88
    Originally posted by PioneerStew
    Originally posted by TankYou88
    Originally posted by PioneerStew
    Originally posted by TankYou88
    Originally posted by ryvendark
    Originally posted by TankYou88
    Originally posted by allday88

    I think kickstarter is nothing more than a scam.  You have oculus taking millions turning that around into billion, what did the kickstart supporters get?  NOTHING!  The supports say it's like sharktank or any investment.  Well for those who actually invest yes for kickstarter NO.  Tell me which shark would put money into something with a guarantee of ZERO return in investment?  Which one would do that?  Let me tell you none.  

     

     

    There are episodes of shark tank where people who been on kickstarter come on the show and get invested in...So I guess not none.

    There is a guarantee as well, they are bound by law to produce something to give to their backers. If not they can be taken to court. If you check out their FAQ it says they sign something before hand, only problem is kickstarter will not get involved if they think the company actually tried producing something, meaning the mass would have to take them to court by themselves.

    Shark tank invests so regardless of the kickstarter or not they are not giving them money like kickstarter did. When a kickstarter company starts to offer profit sharing with its backers, then they'll be on the same ground as shark tank ( kind of )

    And one example of the state filing a lawsuit really doesn't open the doors wide on making sure a kickstater always delivers. If a kickstarter could show they actually used that money on the game but just ran out of funding there is nothing anyone could do to them in a court. The kickstarter that is getting sued produced nothing and has no evidence that they even worked on their project.

    Isnt it the exact same thing? I invest $20, I either get a return on my investment for a $50-60 game, or the game doesnt produce anything and you lose out on your investment.

    How is that different from investing in a company? Someone invests in a company and a a deal is made, if the company does well they get about a 20-30% return on your investment. If the company tanks you get nothing.

    So with kickstarter you get a 200-300% return on your investment,  investing in a company you get a 20-30% return.

    Correct me if I am wrong, but kickstarter is not an investment.  You pay money towards a game that may or may not materialise, and if it does may or may not match (the usually over-stated) description.  

    An investment is a risk with the possibility of huge rewards.  Kickstarter is a risk WITHOUT the possibility of huge rewards.  

    I think 200-300% return on your investment is a huge reward. That is considered a great investment among any investor.

    What are you referring to?  If you are referring to an arbitrary price that a developer attaches to a game, that is not a return on an investment.  A return on an investment is taking a share of the profits made.  

    Yes. The share of the profit is the game created, its the share you agreed on before hand like any investment.

    No it is not.  You effectively by an unfinished game at a knock down price (and in many cases at a horribly inflated price).  You do not know if the game will or will not ever be finished, and if it is you do not know what that finished product will be.  You do not buy a share in the company and the associated rewards should it prove successful.  

  • DestaiDestai Detroit, MIPosts: 574Member
    Originally posted by vgamer
    Originally posted by allday88

    I think kickstarter is nothing more than a scam.  You have oculus taking millions turning that around into billion, what did the kickstart supporters get?  NOTHING!  The supports say it's like sharktank or any investment.  Well for those who actually invest yes for kickstarter NO.  Tell me which shark would put money into something with a guarantee of ZERO return in investment?  Which one would do that?  Let me tell you none.  

     

     

    I used to view kickstarter like that but lately I think kickstarter is the best thing that has every happened since sliced bread. Essentially, it is a way of taking money from those who are obviously going to squander it anyway and put it into the hands of more capable persons. So resources won't go to waste. Win/Win I'd say.

    You sir, could have a promising career in Pubic Finance.

  • TankYou88TankYou88 , ALPosts: 310Member
    Originally posted by PioneerStew
    Originally posted by TankYou88
    Originally posted by PioneerStew
    Originally posted by TankYou88
    Originally posted by PioneerStew
    Originally posted by TankYou88
    Originally posted by ryvendark
    Originally posted by TankYou88
    Originally posted by allday88

    I think kickstarter is nothing more than a scam.  You have oculus taking millions turning that around into billion, what did the kickstart supporters get?  NOTHING!  The supports say it's like sharktank or any investment.  Well for those who actually invest yes for kickstarter NO.  Tell me which shark would put money into something with a guarantee of ZERO return in investment?  Which one would do that?  Let me tell you none.  

     

     

    There are episodes of shark tank where people who been on kickstarter come on the show and get invested in...So I guess not none.

    There is a guarantee as well, they are bound by law to produce something to give to their backers. If not they can be taken to court. If you check out their FAQ it says they sign something before hand, only problem is kickstarter will not get involved if they think the company actually tried producing something, meaning the mass would have to take them to court by themselves.

    Shark tank invests so regardless of the kickstarter or not they are not giving them money like kickstarter did. When a kickstarter company starts to offer profit sharing with its backers, then they'll be on the same ground as shark tank ( kind of )

    And one example of the state filing a lawsuit really doesn't open the doors wide on making sure a kickstater always delivers. If a kickstarter could show they actually used that money on the game but just ran out of funding there is nothing anyone could do to them in a court. The kickstarter that is getting sued produced nothing and has no evidence that they even worked on their project.

    Isnt it the exact same thing? I invest $20, I either get a return on my investment for a $50-60 game, or the game doesnt produce anything and you lose out on your investment.

    How is that different from investing in a company? Someone invests in a company and a a deal is made, if the company does well they get about a 20-30% return on your investment. If the company tanks you get nothing.

    So with kickstarter you get a 200-300% return on your investment,  investing in a company you get a 20-30% return.

    Correct me if I am wrong, but kickstarter is not an investment.  You pay money towards a game that may or may not materialise, and if it does may or may not match (the usually over-stated) description.  

    An investment is a risk with the possibility of huge rewards.  Kickstarter is a risk WITHOUT the possibility of huge rewards.  

    I think 200-300% return on your investment is a huge reward. That is considered a great investment among any investor.

    What are you referring to?  If you are referring to an arbitrary price that a developer attaches to a game, that is not a return on an investment.  A return on an investment is taking a share of the profits made.  

    Yes. The share of the profit is the game created, its the share you agreed on before hand like any investment.

    No it is not.  You effectively by an unfinished game at a knock down price.  You do not know if the game will or will not ever be finished, and if it is you do not know what that finished product will be.  You do not buy a share in the company and the associated rewards should it prove successful.  

    So you only get something if the company does well. Sounds like an investment to me.

  • steeldragonzsteeldragonz ElginPosts: 15Member

    at the end of the day i view kickstarter as a donation platform not an investment platform... with no solid promise of return on your investment technically you are just donating in the hope that something comes of it... not investing in the promise of a solid return.

    Which is why no matter how much i love a project i won't donate to it myself. Its to easy for people to just close up shop after the fact or in some cases try and make vapourware look legit just long enough to get money worth the time of making a website/trailer/documentation thats enticing. you dont need a long con anymore, you just need to be long enough to fool a few people to spread the word for you...

  • sirphobossirphobos Ames, IAPosts: 614Member Common
    Regardless of whether kickstarter is a scam, I can't imagine a situation where backing a pc game is a good idea. The chance of failure is just way too high. I think crowd funding is great in some cases I personally have backed albums from independent musicians. In this case, the chance of failure is far lower, both in chance on the project not getting completed and the amount of money you'd be out. Plus these projects require thousands rather than hundreds of thousands or millions of dollars. Plus, many game kickstarter projects openly admit the goal is not enough to complete the project. Does anyone think the fate of Pantheon would have been different had they raised 800k?
  • PioneerStewPioneerStew londonPosts: 874Member
    Originally posted by TankYou88
    Originally posted by PioneerStew
    Originally posted by TankYou88
    Originally posted by PioneerStew
    Originally posted by TankYou88
    Originally posted by PioneerStew
    Originally posted by TankYou88
    Originally posted by ryvendark
    Originally posted by TankYou88
    Originally posted by allday88

    I think kickstarter is nothing more than a scam.  You have oculus taking millions turning that around into billion, what did the kickstart supporters get?  NOTHING!  The supports say it's like sharktank or any investment.  Well for those who actually invest yes for kickstarter NO.  Tell me which shark would put money into something with a guarantee of ZERO return in investment?  Which one would do that?  Let me tell you none.  

     

     

    There are episodes of shark tank where people who been on kickstarter come on the show and get invested in...So I guess not none.

    There is a guarantee as well, they are bound by law to produce something to give to their backers. If not they can be taken to court. If you check out their FAQ it says they sign something before hand, only problem is kickstarter will not get involved if they think the company actually tried producing something, meaning the mass would have to take them to court by themselves.

    Shark tank invests so regardless of the kickstarter or not they are not giving them money like kickstarter did. When a kickstarter company starts to offer profit sharing with its backers, then they'll be on the same ground as shark tank ( kind of )

    And one example of the state filing a lawsuit really doesn't open the doors wide on making sure a kickstater always delivers. If a kickstarter could show they actually used that money on the game but just ran out of funding there is nothing anyone could do to them in a court. The kickstarter that is getting sued produced nothing and has no evidence that they even worked on their project.

    Isnt it the exact same thing? I invest $20, I either get a return on my investment for a $50-60 game, or the game doesnt produce anything and you lose out on your investment.

    How is that different from investing in a company? Someone invests in a company and a a deal is made, if the company does well they get about a 20-30% return on your investment. If the company tanks you get nothing.

    So with kickstarter you get a 200-300% return on your investment,  investing in a company you get a 20-30% return.

    Correct me if I am wrong, but kickstarter is not an investment.  You pay money towards a game that may or may not materialise, and if it does may or may not match (the usually over-stated) description.  

    An investment is a risk with the possibility of huge rewards.  Kickstarter is a risk WITHOUT the possibility of huge rewards.  

    I think 200-300% return on your investment is a huge reward. That is considered a great investment among any investor.

    What are you referring to?  If you are referring to an arbitrary price that a developer attaches to a game, that is not a return on an investment.  A return on an investment is taking a share of the profits made.  

    Yes. The share of the profit is the game created, its the share you agreed on before hand like any investment.

    No it is not.  You effectively by an unfinished game at a knock down price.  You do not know if the game will or will not ever be finished, and if it is you do not know what that finished product will be.  You do not buy a share in the company and the associated rewards should it prove successful.  

    So you only get something if the company does well. Sounds like an investment to me.

    I am not going to explain it again.  It is not an investment, just accept it and move on.  I even think you know you are wrong on this one.  

  • TankYou88TankYou88 , ALPosts: 310Member
    Originally posted by PioneerStew
    Originally posted by TankYou88
    Originally posted by PioneerStew
    Originally posted by TankYou88
    Originally posted by PioneerStew
    Originally posted by TankYou88
    Originally posted by PioneerStew
    Originally posted by TankYou88
    Originally posted by ryvendark
    Originally posted by TankYou88
    Originally posted by allday88

    I think kickstarter is nothing more than a scam.  You have oculus taking millions turning that around into billion, what did the kickstart supporters get?  NOTHING!  The supports say it's like sharktank or any investment.  Well for those who actually invest yes for kickstarter NO.  Tell me which shark would put money into something with a guarantee of ZERO return in investment?  Which one would do that?  Let me tell you none.  

     

     

    There are episodes of shark tank where people who been on kickstarter come on the show and get invested in...So I guess not none.

    There is a guarantee as well, they are bound by law to produce something to give to their backers. If not they can be taken to court. If you check out their FAQ it says they sign something before hand, only problem is kickstarter will not get involved if they think the company actually tried producing something, meaning the mass would have to take them to court by themselves.

    Shark tank invests so regardless of the kickstarter or not they are not giving them money like kickstarter did. When a kickstarter company starts to offer profit sharing with its backers, then they'll be on the same ground as shark tank ( kind of )

    And one example of the state filing a lawsuit really doesn't open the doors wide on making sure a kickstater always delivers. If a kickstarter could show they actually used that money on the game but just ran out of funding there is nothing anyone could do to them in a court. The kickstarter that is getting sued produced nothing and has no evidence that they even worked on their project.

    Isnt it the exact same thing? I invest $20, I either get a return on my investment for a $50-60 game, or the game doesnt produce anything and you lose out on your investment.

    How is that different from investing in a company? Someone invests in a company and a a deal is made, if the company does well they get about a 20-30% return on your investment. If the company tanks you get nothing.

    So with kickstarter you get a 200-300% return on your investment,  investing in a company you get a 20-30% return.

    Correct me if I am wrong, but kickstarter is not an investment.  You pay money towards a game that may or may not materialise, and if it does may or may not match (the usually over-stated) description.  

    An investment is a risk with the possibility of huge rewards.  Kickstarter is a risk WITHOUT the possibility of huge rewards.  

    I think 200-300% return on your investment is a huge reward. That is considered a great investment among any investor.

    What are you referring to?  If you are referring to an arbitrary price that a developer attaches to a game, that is not a return on an investment.  A return on an investment is taking a share of the profits made.  

    Yes. The share of the profit is the game created, its the share you agreed on before hand like any investment.

    No it is not.  You effectively by an unfinished game at a knock down price.  You do not know if the game will or will not ever be finished, and if it is you do not know what that finished product will be.  You do not buy a share in the company and the associated rewards should it prove successful.  

    So you only get something if the company does well. Sounds like an investment to me.

    I am not going to explain it again.  It is not an investment, just accept it and move on.  I even think you know you are wrong on this one.  

    You keep explaining how its an investment...

  • FeralLokiFeralLoki Fredericksburg, VAPosts: 90Member Uncommon
    I would hunt those people down and i would take my money back, they can steal from me, then i can steal from them. :)
  • PioneerStewPioneerStew londonPosts: 874Member
    Originally posted by TankYou88
    Originally posted by PioneerStew
    Originally posted by TankYou88
    Originally posted by PioneerStew
    Originally posted by TankYou88
    Originally posted by PioneerStew
    Originally posted by TankYou88
    Originally posted by PioneerStew
    Originally posted by TankYou88
    Originally posted by ryvendark
    Originally posted by TankYou88
    Originally posted by allday88

    I think kickstarter is nothing more than a scam.  You have oculus taking millions turning that around into billion, what did the kickstart supporters get?  NOTHING!  The supports say it's like sharktank or any investment.  Well for those who actually invest yes for kickstarter NO.  Tell me which shark would put money into something with a guarantee of ZERO return in investment?  Which one would do that?  Let me tell you none.  

     

     

    There are episodes of shark tank where people who been on kickstarter come on the show and get invested in...So I guess not none.

    There is a guarantee as well, they are bound by law to produce something to give to their backers. If not they can be taken to court. If you check out their FAQ it says they sign something before hand, only problem is kickstarter will not get involved if they think the company actually tried producing something, meaning the mass would have to take them to court by themselves.

    Shark tank invests so regardless of the kickstarter or not they are not giving them money like kickstarter did. When a kickstarter company starts to offer profit sharing with its backers, then they'll be on the same ground as shark tank ( kind of )

    And one example of the state filing a lawsuit really doesn't open the doors wide on making sure a kickstater always delivers. If a kickstarter could show they actually used that money on the game but just ran out of funding there is nothing anyone could do to them in a court. The kickstarter that is getting sued produced nothing and has no evidence that they even worked on their project.

    Isnt it the exact same thing? I invest $20, I either get a return on my investment for a $50-60 game, or the game doesnt produce anything and you lose out on your investment.

    How is that different from investing in a company? Someone invests in a company and a a deal is made, if the company does well they get about a 20-30% return on your investment. If the company tanks you get nothing.

    So with kickstarter you get a 200-300% return on your investment,  investing in a company you get a 20-30% return.

    Correct me if I am wrong, but kickstarter is not an investment.  You pay money towards a game that may or may not materialise, and if it does may or may not match (the usually over-stated) description.  

    An investment is a risk with the possibility of huge rewards.  Kickstarter is a risk WITHOUT the possibility of huge rewards.  

    I think 200-300% return on your investment is a huge reward. That is considered a great investment among any investor.

    What are you referring to?  If you are referring to an arbitrary price that a developer attaches to a game, that is not a return on an investment.  A return on an investment is taking a share of the profits made.  

    Yes. The share of the profit is the game created, its the share you agreed on before hand like any investment.

    No it is not.  You effectively by an unfinished game at a knock down price.  You do not know if the game will or will not ever be finished, and if it is you do not know what that finished product will be.  You do not buy a share in the company and the associated rewards should it prove successful.  

    So you only get something if the company does well. Sounds like an investment to me.

    I am not going to explain it again.  It is not an investment, just accept it and move on.  I even think you know you are wrong on this one.  

    You keep explaining how its an investment...

    No, I keep explaining how it is the purchase of an unfinished product.  Unless you think that buying a loaf of bread is an investment in a supermarket.  The only difference in that example being that you get a loaf of bread and not the promise of a loaf of bread from a "baker".  

  • erictlewiserictlewis Cottondale, ALPosts: 3,026Member Uncommon

    I got into the great scam star citizen. I will call it a scam, I thought it was going to be a game it has turned out hey you buy yet another ship. What we have a a very flawed alfa.  What it actually is hey you buy more ships.  That is all I see, more and more ships.  And a dogfight simulator that is junk. 

    I don't think we will ever see a game in the near future. I though it was going to take them 3 years. I think more like 10 at this pace.

     

  • TankYou88TankYou88 , ALPosts: 310Member
    Originally posted by PioneerStew
    Originally posted by TankYou88
    Originally posted by PioneerStew
    Originally posted by TankYou88
    Originally posted by PioneerStew
    Originally posted by TankYou88
    Originally posted by PioneerStew
    Originally posted by TankYou88
    Originally posted by PioneerStew
    Originally posted by TankYou88
    Originally posted by ryvendark
    Originally posted by TankYou88
    Originally posted by allday88

    I think kickstarter is nothing more than a scam.  You have oculus taking millions turning that around into billion, what did the kickstart supporters get?  NOTHING!  The supports say it's like sharktank or any investment.  Well for those who actually invest yes for kickstarter NO.  Tell me which shark would put money into something with a guarantee of ZERO return in investment?  Which one would do that?  Let me tell you none.  

     

     

    There are episodes of shark tank where people who been on kickstarter come on the show and get invested in...So I guess not none.

    There is a guarantee as well, they are bound by law to produce something to give to their backers. If not they can be taken to court. If you check out their FAQ it says they sign something before hand, only problem is kickstarter will not get involved if they think the company actually tried producing something, meaning the mass would have to take them to court by themselves.

    Shark tank invests so regardless of the kickstarter or not they are not giving them money like kickstarter did. When a kickstarter company starts to offer profit sharing with its backers, then they'll be on the same ground as shark tank ( kind of )

    And one example of the state filing a lawsuit really doesn't open the doors wide on making sure a kickstater always delivers. If a kickstarter could show they actually used that money on the game but just ran out of funding there is nothing anyone could do to them in a court. The kickstarter that is getting sued produced nothing and has no evidence that they even worked on their project.

    Isnt it the exact same thing? I invest $20, I either get a return on my investment for a $50-60 game, or the game doesnt produce anything and you lose out on your investment.

    How is that different from investing in a company? Someone invests in a company and a a deal is made, if the company does well they get about a 20-30% return on your investment. If the company tanks you get nothing.

    So with kickstarter you get a 200-300% return on your investment,  investing in a company you get a 20-30% return.

    Correct me if I am wrong, but kickstarter is not an investment.  You pay money towards a game that may or may not materialise, and if it does may or may not match (the usually over-stated) description.  

    An investment is a risk with the possibility of huge rewards.  Kickstarter is a risk WITHOUT the possibility of huge rewards.  

    I think 200-300% return on your investment is a huge reward. That is considered a great investment among any investor.

    What are you referring to?  If you are referring to an arbitrary price that a developer attaches to a game, that is not a return on an investment.  A return on an investment is taking a share of the profits made.  

    Yes. The share of the profit is the game created, its the share you agreed on before hand like any investment.

    No it is not.  You effectively by an unfinished game at a knock down price.  You do not know if the game will or will not ever be finished, and if it is you do not know what that finished product will be.  You do not buy a share in the company and the associated rewards should it prove successful.  

    So you only get something if the company does well. Sounds like an investment to me.

    I am not going to explain it again.  It is not an investment, just accept it and move on.  I even think you know you are wrong on this one.  

    You keep explaining how its an investment...

    No, I keep explaining how it is the purchase of an unfinished product.  Unless you think that buying a loaf of bread is an investment in a supermarket.  The only difference in that example being that you get a loaf of bread and not the promise of a loaf of bread from a "baker".  

    If im purchasing an unfinished game then why do people not get anything until its finished, if its finished? 

  • AzothAzoth montreal, QCPosts: 722Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by erictlewis

    I got into the great scam star citizen. I will call it a scam, I thought it was going to be a game it has turned out hey you buy yet another ship. What we have a a very flawed alfa.  What it actually is hey you buy more ships.  That is all I see, more and more ships.  And a dogfight simulator that is junk. 

    I don't think we will ever see a game in the near future. I though it was going to take them 3 years. I think more like 10 at this pace.

     

    You were naive and thought you would get a quick return, you are in for a long trip.I don't recall any ETA on a released game.

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