Originally posted by DMKanoP2W - being able to buy items more powerful than any in game earned items. Storage, labor - convenience. ArcheAge is not P2W, it is more of a subscription game with free to try.
Labor Points is definitely a grey area, but only if sold on top of a sub.
Why does anyone care if it is or isn't P2W... no one is going to be playing it beyond the first 3 months anyways... just as with all the recent releases... silly debate is silly.
I won't comment on the pay to win portion of this thread..
Only on the comments implying that, even with a monthly subscription, there are still restrictions on anything but novelty items.
If I'm subscribing, I don't expect my storage space to be held for ransom in the item shop. I expect to get the full game, because I'm giving them a monthly fee. I can cut some slack if there is no box price, but I still find things like buying storage space with real money disgusting if I'm subscribing.
TSW has a pretty good system in my opinion: a monthly subscription gets you bonuses (such as character slots), and you also get a set amount of "bonus points" to spend in the item store each month. I honestly feel that's the best route to take in games without a required subscription. If it's optional and you don't get everything in the item store included with box + a sub, then give us currency to use in the item store each month we are subbed. Doesn't have to be boatloads, just enough to convince me my subscription isn't wasteful compared to simply buying from the item store alone.
I won't comment on the pay to win portion of this thread..
Only on the comments implying that, even with a monthly subscription, there are still restrictions on anything but novelty items.
If I'm subscribing, I don't expect my storage space to be held for ransom in the item shop. I expect to get the full game, because I'm giving them a monthly fee. I can cut some slack if there is no box price, but I still find things like buying storage space with real money disgusting if I'm subscribing.
TSW has a pretty good system in my opinion: a monthly subscription gets you bonuses (such as character slots), and you also get a set amount of "bonus points" to spend in the item store each month. I honestly feel that's the best route to take in games without a required subscription. If it's optional and you don't get everything in the item store included with box + a sub, then give us currency to use in the item store each month we are subbed. Doesn't have to be boatloads, just enough to convince me my subscription isn't wasteful compared to simply buying from the item store alone.
Why should you even be buying anything in the item store? If you pay a sub, shouldn't you have access to that in-game? That's the part that gets me, people willing to pay a sub and find it *reasonable* to buy things in an item shop. Why? Are we playing Guy's Grocery Game? If it's not in-game, it shouldn't be available anywhere else. You open the door to that sort of itemization, your sub truly is worthless.
I did however find his views on playing games before you by them interesting.
"Since the start I have been trying to warn people that they should not pay any money to a game that they have not played. Obviously that didn't work because it never does. People have to get *beep* to learn."
This is the culture now. Everyone wants everything for free. Im old enough to remember having to buy or "RENT" a game before i played it.
Misinformation.
PAYING through cash shop gives you BENEFITS = PAY to WIN. It is really a simple concept and there is no philosophy around it. There is one if you want to sugar coat it. But if you do like or indeed love to get robbed because "companies can make money through any means" then be my guest.
That is how pay to win was introduced - through cash shops. And a hint - benefits do not mean skins or cosmetics and labour points is not "convenience".
Misinformation run a muck. You are right.
And I am happy paying for a sub which I am to a company that respects me and does not rob me in my face. And the laughable price? 7.69 pounds. Yes Sir that is it. Subbing and having to pay for my inventory slots is though laughable. 150 dollars and still have to pay for inventory slots is theft.
And the point is to inform players so they don't sub AND pay through a cash shop. You might be "fine" by it but I am not and as long as I breath I will not. What is going to change? I will tell you exactly what is going to change. These companies are just going to bomb just like NCSoft West did and unfortunately allot and I mean allot of staff got fired from the UK.
This guy is telling in your face as well as him,
And for those who worry about the future of ArcheAge as possibly just a niche game here in the west, Hartsman left this thought: The game has already surpassed all the expectations, and he considers the game already a success. As he put it, "It doesn't need to become the number one game in the west to be a success for us."
and yet you back them up as if they pay your rent. As if they are your local grocery store that sell you fresh fruits and veggies at reasonable price, giving you an alternative to the plastic stuff from supermarkets, only this time those "evil global corporations" are the "small", "local" and "independent" business you once thought they cared for your community.
Lastly, by this logic Riot should use any means to get your last penny but that doesn't happen. In fact Riot, is one of the few companies that players WANT to give their money. If you want to sit and be quiet about this shitty trend you can. If you want to spend any money on them you can. But I will definitely not sit and be quiet about it. This trend is an addiction like a serious drug/alcohol/poker addiction, you name it so I will not be just another one passing by from an issue I see in my face pretending the world is a fine and a happy place because I have it good.
And for the record I have always, and I mean always, paid for a sub. That does not mean I don't give a shit about the rest.
I did however find his views on playing games before you by them interesting.
"Since the start I have been trying to warn people that they should not pay any money to a game that they have not played. Obviously that didn't work because it never does. People have to get *beep* to learn."
This is the culture now. Everyone wants everything for free. Im old enough to remember having to buy or "RENT" a game before i played it.
Misinformation.
PAYING through cash shop gives you BENEFITS = PAY to WIN. It is really a simple concept and there is no philosophy around it. There is one if you want to sugar coat it. But if you do like or indeed love to get robbed because "companies can make money through any means" then be my guest.
That is how pay to win was introduced - through cash shops. And a hint - benefits do not mean skins or cosmetics and labour points is not "convenience".
Misinformation run a muck. You are right.
And I am happy paying for a sub which I am to a company that respects me and does not rob me in my face. And the laughable price? 7.69 pounds. Yes Sir that is it. Subbing and having to pay for my inventory slots is though laughable. 150 dollars and still have to pay for inventory slots is theft.
And the point is to inform players so they don't sub AND pay through a cash shop. You might be "fine" by it but I am not and as long as I breath I will not. What is going to change? I will tell you exactly what is going to change. These companies are just going to bomb just like NCSoft West did and unfortunately allot and I mean allot of staff got fired from the UK.
This guy is telling in your face as well as him,
And for those who worry about the future of ArcheAge as possibly just a niche game here in the west, Hartsman left this thought: The game has already surpassed all the expectations, and he considers the game already a success. As he put it, "It doesn't need to become the number one game in the west to be a success for us."
and yet you back them up as if they pay your rent. As if they are your local grocery store that sell you fresh fruits and veggies at reasonable price, giving you an alternative to the plastic stuff from supermarkets, only this time those "evil global corporations" are the "small", "local" and "independent" business you once thought they cared for your community.
Lastly, by this logic Riot should use any means to get your last penny but that doesn't happen. In fact Riot, is one of the few companies that players WANT to give their money. If you want to sit and be quiet about this shitty trend you can. If you want to spend any money on them you can. But I will definitely not sit and be quiet about it. This trend is an addiction like a serious drug/alcohol/poker addiction, you name it so I will not be just another one passing by from an issue I see in my face pretending the world is a fine and a happy place because I have it good.
And for the record I have always, and I mean always, paid for a sub. That does not mean I don't give a shit about the rest.
Your concept of P2W is wrong.
Convenience is not winning.
Name one item only available in the cash shop that will make you kill faster/hit harder in PvP or give you some direct winning advantage.
Yeah, didn't think so.
The point is he can't. He has been asked a few times to do this and he can't. He is mad that extra storage can be bought from the shop...extra storage...same as in other games, no big deal.
i believe the east version does have potions that boost stats not sure.. but a lot of ppl are bitching about the labor potions.. these potions
Give you 1000 labor points every 12hours
supposedly you can make 4 characters on 1 account and buy 1 of those potions for each character.. used them and get 4k back max is 5k.. so alot of ppl see that as p2w.. I believe in it as p4c(pay 4 convience)
Best gear and Costumes are made in game.. there is nothing OP PWNAGE in the item mall... everything you can buy in the cash shop can be sold in game..
Originally posted by Kyleran Yeah, it's going to cost some money to play, but the 150 is entirely optional.
Now I'll agree,paying extra for storage space on top of a sub fee sort of blows, but I'm waiting to see how that finally pans out.
There is no way that they would be stupid enough to basically require people that sub also buy inventory space and semi required things like that. You would think they want to keep subscribers, not piss them off.
I did however find his views on playing games before you by them interesting.
"Since the start I have been trying to warn people that they should not pay any money to a game that they have not played. Obviously that didn't work because it never does. People have to get *beep* to learn."
This is the culture now. Everyone wants everything for free. Im old enough to remember having to buy or "RENT" a game before i played it.
Misinformation.
PAYING through cash shop gives you BENEFITS = PAY to WIN. It is really a simple concept and there is no philosophy around it. There is one if you want to sugar coat it. But if you do like or indeed love to get robbed because "companies can make money through any means" then be my guest.
That is how pay to win was introduced - through cash shops. And a hint - benefits do not mean skins or cosmetics and labour points is not "convenience".
Misinformation run a muck. You are right.
And I am happy paying for a sub which I am to a company that respects me and does not rob me in my face. And the laughable price? 7.69 pounds. Yes Sir that is it. Subbing and having to pay for my inventory slots is though laughable. 150 dollars and still have to pay for inventory slots is theft.
And the point is to inform players so they don't sub AND pay through a cash shop. You might be "fine" by it but I am not and as long as I breath I will not. What is going to change? I will tell you exactly what is going to change. These companies are just going to bomb just like NCSoft West did and unfortunately allot and I mean allot of staff got fired from the UK.
This guy is telling in your face as well as him,
And for those who worry about the future of ArcheAge as possibly just a niche game here in the west, Hartsman left this thought: The game has already surpassed all the expectations, and he considers the game already a success. As he put it, "It doesn't need to become the number one game in the west to be a success for us."
and yet you back them up as if they pay your rent. As if they are your local grocery store that sell you fresh fruits and veggies at reasonable price, giving you an alternative to the plastic stuff from supermarkets, only this time those "evil global corporations" are the "small", "local" and "independent" business you once thought they cared for your community.
Lastly, by this logic Riot should use any means to get your last penny but that doesn't happen. In fact Riot, is one of the few companies that players WANT to give their money. If you want to sit and be quiet about this shitty trend you can. If you want to spend any money on them you can. But I will definitely not sit and be quiet about it. This trend is an addiction like a serious drug/alcohol/poker addiction, you name it so I will not be just another one passing by from an issue I see in my face pretending the world is a fine and a happy place because I have it good.
And for the record I have always, and I mean always, paid for a sub. That does not mean I don't give a shit about the rest.
Your concept of P2W is wrong.
Convenience is not winning.
Name one item only available in the cash shop that will make you kill faster/hit harder in PvP or give you some direct winning advantage.
Yeah, didn't think so.
Then you don't know how important is LP so yeah I didn't think so either. LP is core not "convenience" so get it through your head. Also P2W does not only apply to PVP. Headstart bonuses is not an advantage in PVP right? Of course not.
I am 100 percent sure that you haven't paid freemium games and if you have you have always thought the P2W elements as "convenient" to justify your lack of getting things down without paying extra money.
And let me give you an example of your distorted version of convenience. Even a leveling booster is P2W in an open world PVP environment. Here is a basic example.
We have got 40 players. 20 in each faction. In faction A 20 players are spending twice the amount of money faction B spends. Faction A gets 2x more money, more land, more control, crafts the best gear in the game while faction B is still clearing old content, lacks money to invest in itself and cannot get more money, more open instances because it is heavily dominated by faction A that gets more and more money due to dominance.
But you would know that if you have had some experience. You haven't experienced extreme circumstances and that is exactly why you can't think ahead.
I did however find his views on playing games before you by them interesting.
"Since the start I have been trying to warn people that they should not pay any money to a game that they have not played. Obviously that didn't work because it never does. People have to get *beep* to learn."
This is the culture now. Everyone wants everything for free. Im old enough to remember having to buy or "RENT" a game before i played it.
Misinformation.
PAYING through cash shop gives you BENEFITS = PAY to WIN. It is really a simple concept and there is no philosophy around it. There is one if you want to sugar coat it. But if you do like or indeed love to get robbed because "companies can make money through any means" then be my guest.
That is how pay to win was introduced - through cash shops. And a hint - benefits do not mean skins or cosmetics and labour points is not "convenience".
Misinformation run a muck. You are right.
And I am happy paying for a sub which I am to a company that respects me and does not rob me in my face. And the laughable price? 7.69 pounds. Yes Sir that is it. Subbing and having to pay for my inventory slots is though laughable. 150 dollars and still have to pay for inventory slots is theft.
And the point is to inform players so they don't sub AND pay through a cash shop. You might be "fine" by it but I am not and as long as I breath I will not. What is going to change? I will tell you exactly what is going to change. These companies are just going to bomb just like NCSoft West did and unfortunately allot and I mean allot of staff got fired from the UK.
This guy is telling in your face as well as him,
And for those who worry about the future of ArcheAge as possibly just a niche game here in the west, Hartsman left this thought: The game has already surpassed all the expectations, and he considers the game already a success. As he put it, "It doesn't need to become the number one game in the west to be a success for us."
and yet you back them up as if they pay your rent. As if they are your local grocery store that sell you fresh fruits and veggies at reasonable price, giving you an alternative to the plastic stuff from supermarkets, only this time those "evil global corporations" are the "small", "local" and "independent" business you once thought they cared for your community.
Lastly, by this logic Riot should use any means to get your last penny but that doesn't happen. In fact Riot, is one of the few companies that players WANT to give their money. If you want to sit and be quiet about this shitty trend you can. If you want to spend any money on them you can. But I will definitely not sit and be quiet about it. This trend is an addiction like a serious drug/alcohol/poker addiction, you name it so I will not be just another one passing by from an issue I see in my face pretending the world is a fine and a happy place because I have it good.
And for the record I have always, and I mean always, paid for a sub. That does not mean I don't give a shit about the rest.
Your concept of P2W is wrong.
Convenience is not winning.
Name one item only available in the cash shop that will make you kill faster/hit harder in PvP or give you some direct winning advantage.
Yeah, didn't think so.
The point is he can't. He has been asked a few times to do this and he can't. He is mad that extra storage can be bought from the shop...extra storage...same as in other games, no big deal.
I never said I know exactly what will cash shop will sell but I know that it will definitely have benefits. BENEFITS. Good job downplaying it though. If you can't even use your head on why even having two equally skilled players with one more slots than the other does not give that person a benefit it is not my issue.
Hint - more slots -> more items to sell -> more money -> better gear -> better stuff in general -> profit.
Originally posted by maybebaked So, basically, you want a f2p game that has everything unlocked and you never have to pay for it. Good luck with that. Candy Crush is free.
How about a F2P that respects me so I can respect it back and give it more money than forcing me to do that to enjoy a game and give it less? How do you think Guild Wars 2 survives?
I did however find his views on playing games before you by them interesting.
"Since the start I have been trying to warn people that they should not pay any money to a game that they have not played. Obviously that didn't work because it never does. People have to get *beep* to learn."
This is the culture now. Everyone wants everything for free. Im old enough to remember having to buy or "RENT" a game before i played it.
Misinformation.
PAYING through cash shop gives you BENEFITS = PAY to WIN. It is really a simple concept and there is no philosophy around it. There is one if you want to sugar coat it. But if you do like or indeed love to get robbed because "companies can make money through any means" then be my guest.
That is how pay to win was introduced - through cash shops. And a hint - benefits do not mean skins or cosmetics and labour points is not "convenience".
Misinformation run a muck. You are right.
And I am happy paying for a sub which I am to a company that respects me and does not rob me in my face. And the laughable price? 7.69 pounds. Yes Sir that is it. Subbing and having to pay for my inventory slots is though laughable. 150 dollars and still have to pay for inventory slots is theft.
And the point is to inform players so they don't sub AND pay through a cash shop. You might be "fine" by it but I am not and as long as I breath I will not. What is going to change? I will tell you exactly what is going to change. These companies are just going to bomb just like NCSoft West did and unfortunately allot and I mean allot of staff got fired from the UK.
This guy is telling in your face as well as him,
And for those who worry about the future of ArcheAge as possibly just a niche game here in the west, Hartsman left this thought: The game has already surpassed all the expectations, and he considers the game already a success. As he put it, "It doesn't need to become the number one game in the west to be a success for us."
and yet you back them up as if they pay your rent. As if they are your local grocery store that sell you fresh fruits and veggies at reasonable price, giving you an alternative to the plastic stuff from supermarkets, only this time those "evil global corporations" are the "small", "local" and "independent" business you once thought they cared for your community.
Lastly, by this logic Riot should use any means to get your last penny but that doesn't happen. In fact Riot, is one of the few companies that players WANT to give their money. If you want to sit and be quiet about this shitty trend you can. If you want to spend any money on them you can. But I will definitely not sit and be quiet about it. This trend is an addiction like a serious drug/alcohol/poker addiction, you name it so I will not be just another one passing by from an issue I see in my face pretending the world is a fine and a happy place because I have it good.
And for the record I have always, and I mean always, paid for a sub. That does not mean I don't give a shit about the rest.
Your concept of P2W is wrong.
Convenience is not winning.
Name one item only available in the cash shop that will make you kill faster/hit harder in PvP or give you some direct winning advantage.
Yeah, didn't think so.
The point is he can't. He has been asked a few times to do this and he can't. He is mad that extra storage can be bought from the shop...extra storage...same as in other games, no big deal.
I never said I know exactly what will cash shop will sell but I know that it will definitely have benefits. BENEFITS. Good job downplaying it though. If you can't even use your head on why even having two equally skilled players with one more slots than the other does not give that person a benefit it is not my issue.
Hint - more slots -> more items to sell -> more money -> better gear -> better stuff in general -> profit.
Originally posted by maybebaked So, basically, you want a f2p game that has everything unlocked and you never have to pay for it. Good luck with that. Candy Crush is free.
How about a F2P that respects me so I can respect it back and give it more money than forcing me to do that to enjoy a game and give it less? How do you think Guild Wars 2 survives?
It's really simple if you don't subscribe to this game you aren't viable ....I'm not sure if that's p2w or not but it is the reality of AA
Originally posted by maybebaked So, basically, you want a f2p game that has everything unlocked and you never have to pay for it. Good luck with that. Candy Crush is free.
How about a F2P that respects me so I can respect it back and give it more money than forcing me to do that to enjoy a game and give it less? How do you think Guild Wars 2 survives?
Originally posted by 0effort Originally posted by maybebaked So, basically, you want a f2p game that has everything unlocked and you never have to pay for it. Good luck with that. Candy Crush is free.
How about a F2P that respects me so I can respect it back and give it more money than forcing me to do that to enjoy a game and give it less? How do you think Guild Wars 2 survives?
Marketing.
definitely not on it's quality gameplay.
Looking forward to "paying to win", according to the OP I am going to be rolling all I over folks, you might as well all give up now.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Chryos - After dropping 150 for the game, and paying for a monthly subscription, do I have access to the full game? Or am I going to still have to spend more money via micro-transactions to buy extra features that should be included if you purchased the game?
I'll be pretty disappointed if my 150 and a monthly sub is not enough. That's my concern and will determine if I will sub the game after my 3 months is up.
Jahlon - There will be micro-transactions you have to conduct (inventory expansion, character expansions, etc.).
In case you don't realize there are quite a few MMOs out now that have you pay for character expansions and inventory expansions, so this isn't new and is kinda normal.
FYI...GW2 & SWTOR to name 2 make you pay for both.
Again, not an issue, move along.
i would think he is talking about subscribers, not free players. Sure free players have cash shop unlocks, but subscribers should get everything. Otherwise, yes its an issue.
Cash shop should be able to by the game in peices.
Subscription people should have 100% of all cash shop perks 100% of the time.
The problem with free to play games is the serious players almost always have to pay more then the standard sub fee to stay competitive. So in essence the serious players are paying for the free loaders to play for nothing. And that is BS.
AA is a p2w game anyone who say other wise is blind. Not saying the game is bad, but it will cost you probally $30-40 a month easy to stay competitive and that is not buying vanity stuff. The sub fee in AA is required to even play the game. So in essence AA has 3 tiers. Extended Demo for free which has massive limitations. P2P patron status. P2W status where you will make more money, level faster, and progress quicker at endgame.
no tricks, no traps... yea trion. it is all traps all tricks. I cannot blame Trion though. XL is designing AA around the cash shop which is never a good idea.
Originally posted by azzamasin You're confusing what Pay to Win actually means. P2W is when you buy power or items that are stronger then what can be acquired in the game through normal means. Buying quality of life improvements or cosmetic features are not B2W no matter how much you want it to be. You spent $150 to get early access to the game and to get a few items to boot.
Publisher is Trion World and their other game Rift which many consider as one of the best free to play is complete pay to win. Before Rift went free to play had an expac coming and me(fool in the case) bought it for like 120$ with a year sub, only to see the game go free to play after few months I made the purchase so for the year sub I payed they gave me cash shop money and I had worked my ass off to get fairly good weapon and gear and found from cash shop a way better weapon that gave me like 40% more dps and stats. That is pure pay to win and I bet they will do the same in Archeage.
"mmorpg.com forum admins are all TROLLS and losers in real life" My opinion
This free schtick is getting pretty dark. Even I got a little shocked.
What exactly do you get for a sub now in these "free" games. Buying inventory ugh. That one will hurt anyone playing an MMO and doubly someone who crafts. Making an MMO player pay for inventory is ruthless because as the developer you decide the stacking mechanics per slot and the number of items. You could exhaust inventory that isn't built for expansions simply by adding more content aka items and it seems ever so natural to add another tier of this or that and usurp more slots under the radar or one time event items - even better because you won't delete what only comes once a year or once in the game - you'll buy inventory instead.
Definitely a sign this game is off to a bad start. What's new though, these games are trying to find the top limit people will pay. They'll find it but there will probably be some people who leave this genre once they feel milked thoroughly.
Comments
Labor Points is definitely a grey area, but only if sold on top of a sub.
sub2win is a perfectly acceptable model
but LP = power to many players.
I won't comment on the pay to win portion of this thread..
Only on the comments implying that, even with a monthly subscription, there are still restrictions on anything but novelty items.
If I'm subscribing, I don't expect my storage space to be held for ransom in the item shop. I expect to get the full game, because I'm giving them a monthly fee. I can cut some slack if there is no box price, but I still find things like buying storage space with real money disgusting if I'm subscribing.
TSW has a pretty good system in my opinion: a monthly subscription gets you bonuses (such as character slots), and you also get a set amount of "bonus points" to spend in the item store each month. I honestly feel that's the best route to take in games without a required subscription. If it's optional and you don't get everything in the item store included with box + a sub, then give us currency to use in the item store each month we are subbed. Doesn't have to be boatloads, just enough to convince me my subscription isn't wasteful compared to simply buying from the item store alone.
Why should you even be buying anything in the item store? If you pay a sub, shouldn't you have access to that in-game? That's the part that gets me, people willing to pay a sub and find it *reasonable* to buy things in an item shop. Why? Are we playing Guy's Grocery Game? If it's not in-game, it shouldn't be available anywhere else. You open the door to that sort of itemization, your sub truly is worthless.
Misinformation.
PAYING through cash shop gives you BENEFITS = PAY to WIN. It is really a simple concept and there is no philosophy around it. There is one if you want to sugar coat it. But if you do like or indeed love to get robbed because "companies can make money through any means" then be my guest.
That is how pay to win was introduced - through cash shops. And a hint - benefits do not mean skins or cosmetics and labour points is not "convenience".
Misinformation run a muck. You are right.
And I am happy paying for a sub which I am to a company that respects me and does not rob me in my face. And the laughable price? 7.69 pounds. Yes Sir that is it. Subbing and having to pay for my inventory slots is though laughable. 150 dollars and still have to pay for inventory slots is theft.
And the point is to inform players so they don't sub AND pay through a cash shop. You might be "fine" by it but I am not and as long as I breath I will not. What is going to change? I will tell you exactly what is going to change. These companies are just going to bomb just like NCSoft West did and unfortunately allot and I mean allot of staff got fired from the UK.
This guy is telling in your face as well as him,
And for those who worry about the future of ArcheAge as possibly just a niche game here in the west, Hartsman left this thought: The game has already surpassed all the expectations, and he considers the game already a success. As he put it, "It doesn't need to become the number one game in the west to be a success for us."
and yet you back them up as if they pay your rent. As if they are your local grocery store that sell you fresh fruits and veggies at reasonable price, giving you an alternative to the plastic stuff from supermarkets, only this time those "evil global corporations" are the "small", "local" and "independent" business you once thought they cared for your community.
Lastly, by this logic Riot should use any means to get your last penny but that doesn't happen. In fact Riot, is one of the few companies that players WANT to give their money. If you want to sit and be quiet about this shitty trend you can. If you want to spend any money on them you can. But I will definitely not sit and be quiet about it. This trend is an addiction like a serious drug/alcohol/poker addiction, you name it so I will not be just another one passing by from an issue I see in my face pretending the world is a fine and a happy place because I have it good.
And for the record I have always, and I mean always, paid for a sub. That does not mean I don't give a shit about the rest.
The point is he can't. He has been asked a few times to do this and he can't. He is mad that extra storage can be bought from the shop...extra storage...same as in other games, no big deal.
i believe the east version does have potions that boost stats not sure.. but a lot of ppl are bitching about the labor potions.. these potions
Give you 1000 labor points every 12hours
supposedly you can make 4 characters on 1 account and buy 1 of those potions for each character.. used them and get 4k back max is 5k.. so alot of ppl see that as p2w.. I believe in it as p4c(pay 4 convience)
Best gear and Costumes are made in game.. there is nothing OP PWNAGE in the item mall... everything you can buy in the cash shop can be sold in game..
There is no way that they would be stupid enough to basically require people that sub also buy inventory space and semi required things like that. You would think they want to keep subscribers, not piss them off.
Then you don't know how important is LP so yeah I didn't think so either. LP is core not "convenience" so get it through your head. Also P2W does not only apply to PVP. Headstart bonuses is not an advantage in PVP right? Of course not.
I am 100 percent sure that you haven't paid freemium games and if you have you have always thought the P2W elements as "convenient" to justify your lack of getting things down without paying extra money.
And let me give you an example of your distorted version of convenience. Even a leveling booster is P2W in an open world PVP environment. Here is a basic example.
We have got 40 players. 20 in each faction. In faction A 20 players are spending twice the amount of money faction B spends. Faction A gets 2x more money, more land, more control, crafts the best gear in the game while faction B is still clearing old content, lacks money to invest in itself and cannot get more money, more open instances because it is heavily dominated by faction A that gets more and more money due to dominance.
But you would know that if you have had some experience. You haven't experienced extreme circumstances and that is exactly why you can't think ahead.
I never said I know exactly what will cash shop will sell but I know that it will definitely have benefits. BENEFITS. Good job downplaying it though. If you can't even use your head on why even having two equally skilled players with one more slots than the other does not give that person a benefit it is not my issue.
Hint - more slots -> more items to sell -> more money -> better gear -> better stuff in general -> profit.
How about a F2P that respects me so I can respect it back and give it more money than forcing me to do that to enjoy a game and give it less? How do you think Guild Wars 2 survives?
ROFL!!!!!! You dont know but definitely know...
Pay to Win...
I think this is appropriate for this topic.
It's really simple if you don't subscribe to this game you aren't viable ....I'm not sure if that's p2w or not but it is the reality of AA
Marketing.
Actually without shooting yourself in the foot the last time I checked you still had to buy FFXIV to play for a month ?
How about a F2P that respects me so I can respect it back and give it more money than forcing me to do that to enjoy a game and give it less? How do you think Guild Wars 2 survives?
Marketing.
definitely not on it's quality gameplay.Looking forward to "paying to win", according to the OP I am going to be rolling all I over folks, you might as well all give up now.
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i would think he is talking about subscribers, not free players. Sure free players have cash shop unlocks, but subscribers should get everything. Otherwise, yes its an issue.
Cash shop should be able to by the game in peices.
Subscription people should have 100% of all cash shop perks 100% of the time.
The problem with free to play games is the serious players almost always have to pay more then the standard sub fee to stay competitive. So in essence the serious players are paying for the free loaders to play for nothing. And that is BS.
AA is a p2w game anyone who say other wise is blind. Not saying the game is bad, but it will cost you probally $30-40 a month easy to stay competitive and that is not buying vanity stuff. The sub fee in AA is required to even play the game. So in essence AA has 3 tiers. Extended Demo for free which has massive limitations. P2P patron status. P2W status where you will make more money, level faster, and progress quicker at endgame.
no tricks, no traps... yea trion. it is all traps all tricks. I cannot blame Trion though. XL is designing AA around the cash shop which is never a good idea.
Publisher is Trion World and their other game Rift which many consider as one of the best free to play is complete pay to win. Before Rift went free to play had an expac coming and me(fool in the case) bought it for like 120$ with a year sub, only to see the game go free to play after few months I made the purchase so for the year sub I payed they gave me cash shop money and I had worked my ass off to get fairly good weapon and gear and found from cash shop a way better weapon that gave me like 40% more dps and stats. That is pure pay to win and I bet they will do the same in Archeage.
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My opinion
I cant wait till the F2P crowd leave the genre.
2 questions that would make it meet my definition of P2W:
1. Can you convert real money to "gold"?
2. How much "win" can gold buy?
Otherwise, I think OP you might be overlapping the terms Paywall with P2W.