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[Interview] Camelot Unchained: The Magic System Revealed

SBFordSBFord Associate Editor - News ManagerThe Land of AZPosts: 16,633MMORPG.COM Staff Uncommon

Today on Twitch, Mark Jacobs and the City State team are continuing their BSC Week of livestream reveals, this time with the Magic System for Camelot Unchained. We caught up with Mark ahead of time to ask him a few questions about the system (being revealed live now on Twitch).  Check it out!

Read more of Rob Lashley's Camelot Unchained: The Magic System Revealed.

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Associate Editor: MMORPG.com
Follow me on Twitter: @MMORPGMom

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Comments

  • AlomarAlomar Middle Earth, NJPosts: 450Member Uncommon
    Loving the live streams this week, finally a game made for RvR that doesn't compromise its pvp to appeal to other game styles (pve, rp, etc.)
     

    Dozens of MMO's, RTS's, FPS's, etc.

  • WightyWighty Westbury, NYPosts: 665Member Uncommon

    I have been following a lot of the news on this and I have to say between this and The Repopulation I think all my gaming desires will be fulfilled.

     

    I saw the powerpoint slides on the use based system and Magic reveal on Massively:

    USE SYSTEM:

    http://massively.joystiq.com/photos/camelot-unchained-bsc-days-stat-reveal

    MAGIC SYSTEM:

    http://massively.joystiq.com/photos/camelot-unchained-bsc-days-magic

     

    I have to say that Mark and his team seem to really be focusing on the intricate and complex game mechanics of some of the classic MMO games which is a blessing!

     

    I really hope they are able to achieve their vision as based on what I have read it looks fantastic. Mark, uses the word immersion a lot and that is what is severely lacking in a lot of today's "fast food" style MMORPG's.

     

    It is also refreshing that Mark and CSE are building this game for a niche audience and not succumbing to the masses, this is a realist approach where the game knows it's audience and is not appologizing for it.

     

    Thanks to Mark and the CSE team for this incredible vision.

    -Proud supporter of Camelot Unchained Kickstarter

    What are your other Hobbies?

    Gaming is Dirt Cheap compared to this...

  • TimothyTierlessTimothyTierless Columnist M, ORPosts: 2,163Member Uncommon
    Tell me more of these "Malevolences" you speak of.
  • Cramit845Cramit845 Port Ewen, NYPosts: 343Member Uncommon

    I have been following this game from the very beginning.  I was all over the forums and everything, although in the past couple months I have completely fallen off being a active participant in the forums.

     

    However, even with out being able to watch the streams (I live with capped internet), having these updates has been great.  I fell off the forums cause there wasn't much to talk about at the time but it is so nice to finally be seeing some of the systems and ideas they decided to implement and I am once again extremely excited for this game. 

     

    However, full disclosure, as soon as I heard of this game I knew I was going to be playing it, so I guess I wasn't concerned with falling off the forums/development cause I already made my decision on it.  I suppose Fanboi is appropriate for me when it comes to this game.

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  • superconductingsuperconducting Rochester, NYPosts: 843Member Uncommon

    Wow. I'm really damn impressed here. These are nothing short of brilliant design decisions. I like every choice they made and the reasons behind them. Every system is well thought out. Glad I finally kicked in my pledge.

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  • TamanousTamanous Edmonton, ABPosts: 2,126Member Uncommon
    Quite honestly the best sounding magic system I have ever heard of ... likely across game genres. It is scary how much is sounds exactly what I suggest on the CU forums. I am in no way taking credit lol. It is obviously influenced around many pnp, warhammer style games and other genres. It just so happens to be exactly what I was hoping for.

    You stay sassy!

  • TamanousTamanous Edmonton, ABPosts: 2,126Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Tierless
    Tell me more of these "Malevolences" you speak of.
     

    Not sure myself but sure sounds nasty. I wonder if enough players can strategically attempt to call one forth.

     

    Little bit of Winds of Magic from old Warhammer rules thrown into magic system in concept.

     

    You stay sassy!

  • SunwolfNCSunwolfNC Charlotte, NCPosts: 188Member Uncommon

    Sounds really, really cool. Maybe a bit too hardcore for me concerning the apparent time sink the game seems to promise, though. Love the possibility of a sentient spellbook :)

    Custom named spells seems like an Internet Rule 34 trap...especially if the spell name will be broadcast in logs or text windows...

  • gylnnegylnne South Hutchinson, KSPosts: 320Member
    One concept discussed during the twitch live stream was the possibility of the casters spell backfiring on them.:) An element of danger when applying your craft, nice.:)
  • UproarUproar Canton, MIPosts: 520Member Uncommon
    I am so happy I bought into this game -- they are giving us something fresh as promised!  A lot of the recent news looks right on target to provide a fun game.  I'm happily keeping my fingers crossed this trend continues.

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  • grogstormgrogstorm Peyton, COPosts: 304Member Uncommon

    Man o mam I really love the directions they are taking on the things I have seen so far.   Yesterdays abundant interconnected abilities presentation was extremely exciting.  And now with today's magic presentation I can clearly see they mean business when they say "this ain't your Dad's MMO" but a new and exciting approach to the old pen and paper games like D&D.

    Absolutely impressive so far.  I am really looking forward to this games release.

    Grog

  • VorthanionVorthanion Laguna Vista, TXPosts: 2,119Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by gylnne
    One concept discussed during the twitch live stream was the possibility of the casters spell backfiring on them.:) An element of danger when applying your craft, nice.:)

    Why is it that only casters have ever suffered from something like this throughout the history of MMOs, but nothing for melee characters?  PnP games had things like fumbles, trips and critical misses to add flavor to a melee class.  I think it's unfair to always add weaknesses to one type of character and not apply it to all.

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  • FearumFearum Cinnaminson, NJPosts: 1,166Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by grogstorm

    Man o mam I really love the directions they are taking on the things I have seen so far.   Yesterdays abundant interconnected abilities presentation was extremely exciting.  And now with today's magic presentation I can clearly see they mean business when they say "this ain't your Dad's MMO" but a new and exciting approach to the old pen and paper games like D&D.

    Absolutely impressive so far.  I am really looking forward to this games release.

    I agree 100%.

    Reading the forums over there and seeing a few of the more vocal people the last few months trying to theory shape the game into a MOBA or some kind of FPS type game was getting me turned off a bit, but to see MJ and team coming out swinging with their original vision still dead in the sites has made me excited for the game again.

    Glad to see them keeping up with what they said they would deliver from the start is really refreshing. The passion they all seem to have still is also contagious and it comes off like they are really having fun making this game. I hope they find the special recipe and make an amazing game, can't wait to hear/see more.

  • TamanousTamanous Edmonton, ABPosts: 2,126Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Vorthanion
    Originally posted by gylnne
    One concept discussed during the twitch live stream was the possibility of the casters spell backfiring on them.:) An element of danger when applying your craft, nice.:)

    Why is it that only casters have ever suffered from something like this throughout the history of MMOs, but nothing for melee characters?  PnP games had things like fumbles, trips and critical misses to add flavor to a melee class.  I think it's unfair to always add weaknesses to one type of character and not apply it to all.

    I do agree for the most part because the critical failure was something we used in our pnp rpg games and I honestly cannot think of a time where any player became upset over the result (other than missing their attack itself). I like to think outside the box on things and would RP a result often comical and even not totally detrimental to the situation depending on the circumstances. This applied to all players as it was a general rule.

     

    An example is if someone rolls a critical failure (typically a 1 on say a d20 roll) and I say their weapon swing within a confined space made it hit something above you (me playing the role of the DM/GM obviously). It is easy to say they simply missed or their weapon broke but what they hit and what that does also can be very interesting. Perhaps they hit something electrical (In a more modern or sci-fi game) and short out all the lights suddenly putting all combatants in the dark or a pipe and steam pours out acting like a blind and an aoe damage to everyone in the area. These are powerful RP tools simply made up on the fly.

     

    In mmos this becomes tricky. Melee fighters are typically most at risk simply because they fight at close range. This applies to sieges, mass combat and in general limits their options ... aka they must be in someone's face. Their attacks are numerous and drawn from physical capability and muscle memory over concentration and complexity. The art of melee fighting is one of simplicity and effectiveness and tends to be very reliable. Magic is a balance of power and weakness. Melee is much more of a reliable yet smaller power curve. The balance is built in for the most part. Push back and spell failure is part of magic's total equation and not as much an additional penalty and perhaps simply putting yourself in harms way is part of the penalty for melee.

     

    That said, there is plenty of room for some interesting ideas akin to push back and fizzles but in a different school of thought. CU is obviously a game where BSC ideas can cover this. I have yet to see a presentation specifically on melee combat so perhaps they already thought of this (although I may have read or heard that the crafted weapon itself may break which is indeed a risk). I do suggest that everyone post on various sites and even the backers site (if you pledged or wish to pledge). MJ does indeed come to these sites and reads these posts.

    You stay sassy!

  • FearumFearum Cinnaminson, NJPosts: 1,166Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Vorthanion
    Originally posted by gylnne
    One concept discussed during the twitch live stream was the possibility of the casters spell backfiring on them.:) An element of danger when applying your craft, nice.:)

    Why is it that only casters have ever suffered from something like this throughout the history of MMOs, but nothing for melee characters?  PnP games had things like fumbles, trips and critical misses to add flavor to a melee class.  I think it's unfair to always add weaknesses to one type of character and not apply it to all.

    Really? I'm pretty sure they haven't covered Melee combat yet so I would wait and see before declaring the end of the world.

    MJ has said before you will miss swings, trip and have critical misses so not sure what you are talking about.

  • sakersaker harrisburg, PAPosts: 993Member Uncommon
    I hate when these games throw ice out there as a "element", it just annoys me to no end. I can see the 4 archetypal old elements as symbolic elements, and they work well. Old original EQ had fun with the 4 elemental Magician pets, a good system that can be expanded on.
  • grogstormgrogstorm Peyton, COPosts: 304Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Fearum
    Originally posted by Vorthanion
    Originally posted by gylnne
    One concept discussed during the twitch live stream was the possibility of the casters spell backfiring on them.:) An element of danger when applying your craft, nice.:)

    Why is it that only casters have ever suffered from something like this throughout the history of MMOs, but nothing for melee characters?  PnP games had things like fumbles, trips and critical misses to add flavor to a melee class.  I think it's unfair to always add weaknesses to one type of character and not apply it to all.

    Really? I'm pretty sure they haven't covered Melee combat yet so I would wait and see before declaring the end of the world.

    MJ has said before you will miss swings, trip and have critical misses so not sure what you are talking about.

    Just think of it as your kids in the back yard.  It is ok for the one swinging the stick to be running around hitting things.  But the other one running around with the can of gas is just to much for you to ignore.  The greater the power the greater the chance of failure.

    Grog

  • TamanousTamanous Edmonton, ABPosts: 2,126Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by saker
    I hate when these games throw ice out there as a "element", it just annoys me to no end. I can see the 4 archetypal old elements as symbolic elements, and they work well. Old original EQ had fun with the 4 elemental Magician pets, a good system that can be expanded on.

    Many games pull from far more than the traditional ancient Greek 4 elements. Taoist elements are actually Wood. Fire, Earth, Metal and Water. Common Fantasy concepts often use ascendant and opposed elements and often include: Water, Fire, Ice, Wind, Earth, Lightning, Darkness and Light. Fantasy also commonly pulls from extraplanar elements which add even more types.

     

    These are all extremely common and typically a staple in pnp rpg games. In fact it is the exception to not see many of these element types. Pulling from simply the 4 classical elements would be rare and likely a game focused squarely on ancient western human history and little from other sources of fantasy.

    You stay sassy!

  • SkuallSkuall UnknowPosts: 1,285Member Uncommon

    O_O im impressed , cant wait to see the magic system on action

    magicka ftw

  • sludgebeardsludgebeard Tampa, FLPosts: 532Member Uncommon
    Am I the only one whose super tucking ready for this game?
  • AlumicardAlumicard wea, ALPosts: 292Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Vorthanion
    Originally posted by gylnne
    One concept discussed during the twitch live stream was the possibility of the casters spell backfiring on them.:) An element of danger when applying your craft, nice.:)

    Why is it that only casters have ever suffered from something like this throughout the history of MMOs, but nothing for melee characters?  PnP games had things like fumbles, trips and critical misses to add flavor to a melee class.  I think it's unfair to always add weaknesses to one type of character and not apply it to all.

     

    Don't worry. The guys were part of DAoC afaik and there you had evade, parry and block. Casters needed dex and those defensive stats worked with dex. You might not parry or block as good as full tank because as a caster you have a huge amount of cc but it happened more than a melee would like to admit that a caster did evade an attack.

     

    And you mentioned fumble. If a melee fumbled it took time to recover and the next attack was delayed. That more or less is what a fumble should look like. The melee makes a mistake and needs time to get back into the fight.

     

    The only thing I am worried about is that the whole system sounds too good to be true. Spells interacting with each other, the weather, the time and the possibility to screw up a fight because some mages didnt hear the ,,STOP CASTING you kill the world". If they manage to make that happend it will be so much fun.

     

    And to those who think it will be a pure pvp game, yes and no. Sure the focus is on pvp no doubt about it. But you will need to protect the pve chars, the crafters, to be able to make the other realm cry. Think of it, they just built a castle and you capture it. Now they must watch while their castle gets deconstructed by crafters and they cant do anything about it because those crafters are protected by groups of blood thirsty pvp chars.

     

    edit: maybe to clarify the "dont worry". if they improve the evade. parry, block, fumble system as much as they did with magic then there will be some fun mechanic to deal with this sort of thing

  • azzamasinazzamasin Butler, OHPosts: 3,058Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by superconducting

    Wow. I'm really damn impressed here. These are nothing short of brilliant design decisions. I like every choice they made and the reasons behind them. Every system is well thought out. Glad I finally kicked in my pledge.

    Sad they are throwing at all away on a game without PvE content.  Sigh!

    Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!

    Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!

    Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!

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  • FanOfSupermanFanOfSuperman Burlington, VTPosts: 137Member


    Originally posted by azzamasin

    Originally posted by superconducting Wow. I'm really damn impressed here. These are nothing short of brilliant design decisions. I like every choice they made and the reasons behind them. Every system is well thought out. Glad I finally kicked in my pledge.
    Sad they are throwing at all away on a game without PvE content.  Sigh!
     

    Pretty much what I summed up in another thread:


    I love most of what I am seeing/reading/hearing about this game so far! I am a huge fan of all things Camelot related, i.e. Arthur, Merlin, Morgana, Knights of the Round Table, etc. I was a huge fan of the show Merlin and even enjoyed the show Camelot somewhat before Starz prematurely axed it (like they have a nasty habit of doing).

    However, my only issue with this game is that it is strictly RvR based and that there is no PvE. Don't get me wrong, I love me some RvR and really miss RvR in Warhammer Online (which is possibly the most fun I've ever had in an MMO) -- but sometimes I need a break from it and simply want to quest in a PvE environment for a bit. Change is often a good thing and PvE can sometimes provide a much needed break from constant RvR gameplay, while at the same time not having to temporarily leave the game altogether.

    Case in point, I believe one of the things that hindered the growth of Warhammer Online is its terrible lack of a PvE campaign. Many players that I knew would leave the game to go play others when they were tired of RvR and were craving something different. Some never came back.

    I realize what Camelot Unchained is trying to shoot for, but I really wonder if the game is segregating itself by going this route and may limit their playerbase this way?!

    I was a PvE player before a PvP player as were most of us. I didn't fall in love with PvP by immediately joining a PvP-centric MMO. I developed that love by easing into it via games with a PvE side to them.

    I question if Camelot Unchained may turn away some players or limit themselves to new players thus hurting its playerbase because of this?


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