Eve can be a great game, but as long as the community doesn't evolve past this circlejerk and CCP doesn't develop a real vision and ambition to the game once again, it's going to stagnate more than it is right now. But it's ok, people will just parrot that having 500k subs, half of them being alts after 11 years is a role model for a sucessful game.
When EvE doesn't change in a way which would please you short term but destroy all longevity, then it is doomed to die. And that people are telling this exact prophecy since years with remarkable lack of results doesn't make a dent in your belief system.
Eve can be a great game, but as long as the community doesn't evolve past this circlejerk and CCP doesn't develop a real vision and ambition to the game once again, it's going to stagnate more than it is right now. But it's ok, people will just parrot that having 500k subs, half of them being alts after 11 years is a role model for a sucessful game.
When EvE doesn't change in a way which would please you short term but destroy all longevity, then it is doomed to die. And that people are telling this exact prophecy since years with remarkable lack of results doesn't make a dent in your belief system.
You are funny.
Here's a live example of what I'm talking about. At the first sign of critique you jump to the 'go back to wow' knee jerk, having no clue what is even in discussion.
Fyi I am a live player for quite a while and your assumptions about me couldn't be any more retarded. I'm not asking for "any way to please my short terms", whatever that means.
Or are you going to deny the lack of development for the past 4 years or so? Years after years of half implemented gameplay systems that are in need of overhaul are still left in the dust (pos mechanics, corp roles, multi core processing support hindering progress of any future gameplay features, the abnorrent sov system that promotes nothing but blob warfare and stagnation of power blocs in nullsec, the list goes on). Meanwhile, today we get things like new deployables, tweaked ship stats and new ship skins and are happy to call it an 'expansion' while every year at Fanfest there are more and more changes being promissed that are always as vague as possible and get put into the backseat the following year. And it doesn't help knowing how they keep wasting budget to make new games that either fail (wod, dust 514) or that take considerable development costs (valkyrie, legion) and have a much reduced staff since the past few months.
If that's not lack of vision and effort on CCP's part I don't know what it is.
The only prophecy being told since the dawn of the game is that if CCP doesn't step up their game they're going to lose players to other games (including their core playerbase). Judging by the amount of bittervets you see around and no signs of improving the game in any meaningful way, I'd say that's exactly what's happening so far.
Your post is funny because it shows exactly what's wrong with this community. Gankers and griefers that people complain around here are easily dealt with and usually only show signs of incompetence by the 'harassed' player. People with your narrow views that everything in the game is fine and that nothing needs changing are what always keep it back.
I understand where you're coming from, I truly do. But you have to realize that the world of New Eden that CCP has created is supposed to be an emulation of a completely dog eat dog society where almost anything can happen. For all intents and purposes you should be happy there are even Hi-sec areas in my opinion.
I have played this game on and off here and there for some time and I am by no means an expert in any way shape or form. But what I absolutely love about this game is that it truly is a vitrual world: one server, go anywhere, do anything. It is trying to portray a futuristic society in space where there is no government. Just those who may or may not be your friends.
I understand you have to pay a subscription, I understand that you've put a lot of time and effort into the game, but this is something that they make you very well aware of and is something that makes the experience something that is truly unique. That fear of griefing, that fear of losing everything. But that's what makes it awesome, the fact that can actually happen, anytime, anywhere, and if you can't handle that then this game isn't for you. Can't you guys imagine that if a world actually did exist like New Eden in space there would be those griefers, those pirates, those scammers? That's what our world is like believe it or not. Just most of us don't see it as we live in a priveleged society where we play video games all day... It's sick but its an accurate portrayal of what that society would be like (I think at least). So CCP, please don't change it. Don't corrupt this immaculate world of no holds barred, deception, profiteering, piracy, backstabbing.. ugh I could go on.
So you are trying to say that for those of us who dont want to be scammed, to give it a try no matter what? Thank you, NO, EVE Online is not for everyone and more abusive towards new players the game becomes more customers you are going to loose. JMust read their forums, the vast majority of players dont want new players in game.
Here's a live example of what I'm talking about. At the first sign of critique you jump to the 'go back to wow' knee jerk, having no clue what is even in discussion.
Fyi I am a live player for quite a while and your assumptions about me couldn't be any more retarded. I'm not asking for "any way to please my short terms", whatever that means.
Or are you going to deny the lack of development for the past 4 years or so? Years after years of half implemented gameplay systems that are in need of overhaul are still left in the dust (pos mechanics, corp roles, multi core processing support hindering progress of any future gameplay features, the abnorrent sov system that promotes nothing but blob warfare and stagnation of power blocs in nullsec, the list goes on). Meanwhile, today we get things like new deployables, tweaked ship stats and new ship skins and are happy to call it an 'expansion' while every year at Fanfest there are more and more changes being promissed that are always as vague as possible and get put into the backseat the following year. And it doesn't help knowing how they keep wasting budget to make new games that either fail (wod, dust 514) or that take considerable development costs (valkyrie, legion) and have a much reduced staff since the past few months.
If that's not lack of vision and effort on CCP's part I don't know what it is.
The only prophecy being told since the dawn of the game is that if CCP doesn't step up their game they're going to lose players to other games (including their core playerbase). Judging by the amount of bittervets you see around and no signs of improving the game in any meaningful way, I'd say that's exactly what's happening so far.
Your post is funny because it shows exactly what's wrong with this community. Gankers and griefers that people complain around here are easily dealt with and usually only show signs of incompetence by the 'harassed' player. People with your narrow views that everything in the game is fine and that nothing needs changing are what always keep it back.
A) Show me where I used any of the following terms: "go", "back", "wow. If you finf any of them in the post you quote I send you a PLEX ingame.
Nice try in cheap rhetorics: "Or are you going to deny..." Failing since at least a couple of centuries.
All one can read in the post I was referring to is that you are the man. The ONE man who has understood everything and thus the only valid worldview. You whine about the people in the community who you deem unable to understand the wisdom you are trying to purport and who in reality, like me, just don't give a rusty penny about what you see wrong with the game since.. you know.. they have fun with what they do.
Guys like you are in every game out there. The mere fact that they play the game already for an arbitrary timespan not only makes them complete experts for THIS game, no, they are also the worlds best designers, business specialists, marketing gurus and programmers, all in one person! At least in their own view. And whoever does not see that obvious fact like they do is a narrow minded dumbfuck without and idea any of course, as you chose to put it, a fascist. No less.
Originally posted by uplink4242
The community is so embraced in their own fascism that it prevents from seeing its own crippling problems, let alone acknoledge what other games do better and learning from them.
(Just in case you accidentally edit your first post.)
Bittervetsin game forums after 11 years... Yeah, that's of course a sure sign of a dying game. Forget the fact that most games never even come near that lifespan and even less games have people after those 11 years who still care enough to talk some bittervet talk.
CCP is not flawless! Equally surprising, isn't it. Until now they showed a remarkable ability to learn from mistakes and also via the CSM they are the ONLY game developer where players have a regular say in the further development and changes of the game. All sure signs of no vision. I mean, at all.
You see for every feature in every game which is not blatantly broken there are people who like it and people who don't. In EvE every change has to be thought through very well of in terms of how it affects the economy. The economy in EvE IS the game, all other features only serve to feed it. When you give in to whiners and start changing around things at their whim and you you upset the production / destruction ratio too much, then EvE is truly in trouble.
CCP is the only company, and for a good reason, having a full time economist of high profile to supervise their market. You don't get director of a university, not even in Iceland, when your only merit is "Yeah the last few years I just cared about the ingame economy of some generic fantasy MMO where the best stuff drops in scripted raid dungeons and crafting is an afterthought." - But it works with EvE. Fascinating, eh?
11 years in you cannot just make drastic changes to any core game features without risking very complex repercussions in other systems. How the industry changes of last week will play out medium / long term has to be seen but it is far from only being a cosmetic change. They put elements od risk and reward into production and how this will affect the economy as a whole when people start realizing that a lot of extremely valuable BPOs and BPCs have to be transported and stored in POSs now and that there is a new way to piss off people with work teams and dynamic pricing.
But this will probably not excite you at all, since your verdict is already done. EvE will die if it is not "immediately" transformed into some hybrid of Elite, Star Citizen and whatever other games from completely different genres you want to name. Who says otherwise is obviously a fascist redneck without a clue and only hallucinates having fun with all the game systems you don't like or use. World's simple, right?
Well, i've played EVE online too and it's true, you can be easely ganked at dorrs with some stuff (or not) at doors with a buble like was my firts death, or by a group of pirates pointing you and other two shooting you, and yes there is no problem about that, but anothe thing is people using Harrasement or trying to play only their way, and if you don't agree hey kill you. As you say at the start of the main post, you can do what you want, so if i wanna mine only, why should a guy that though is better than me, for any unknown reason, tell me how should i play? And bullying should be banned inmediatelly by CCP, people enter to EVE online to play and disconnect for real life, and if the game is worts than real life, that is a bad thing for CCP, because no one is going to pay 13 euros/dollars, for watchinh how a group of players only use bullying or herrasent in game for trying that you do, or give them what they whant. I should be cut of mine if i pay 13 euros and in game i only loose money or stuff because of people like that. That's is the main point of the last post i'he read about EVe and how CCp is doing nothing about that, so i must say that i'm with that player, that is the worst thing for the future of a game, because no one new is going to enter, or if they do, they will pay first moth and then they will say BYE BYE EVE forever.
I'm not going to read page long posts or argue with anyone, I played EVE and I enjoyed it and learned a lot from it. Having said that, the developers are becoming toxic and the community is becoming toxic to the level where it's unplayable. You simply cannot do whatever you want to do anymore.
Griefers can ruin so much of the game that there are very limited things you can do without constant worry of getting scammed or griefed, and I don't think its what games should be about (obviously not everyone shares this thought). The fact that these "virtual" gamers can also harass you in real life without ingame or real life punishment is even more disturbing.
I will close by saying that this game could have gone places and still has a chance if the developers set it back on a decent track, meaning not only fixing the community but the game too, there are still many issues: insane PLEX costs, horrible industry system, no significant new features in the past 2-3 years (FW, WH's, were great additions).
CCP is the only company, and for a good reason, having a full time economist of high profile to supervise their market. You don't get director of a university, not even in Iceland, when your only merit is "Yeah the last few years I just cared about the ingame economy of some generic fantasy MMO where the best stuff drops in scripted raid dungeons and crafting is an afterthought." - But it works with EvE. Fascinating, eh?
Originally posted by telerion
... there are still many issues: insane PLEX costs ...
But to comment to Rylah's post, they fired the often cited "PhD" economist a long time ago. Goons run the economy now and whatever they don't like just disappears.
I understand where you're coming from, I truly do. But you have to realize that the world of New Eden that CCP has created is supposed to be an emulation of a completely dog eat dog society where almost anything can happen. For all intents and purposes you should be happy there are even Hi-sec areas in my opinion.
I have played this game on and off here and there for some time and I am by no means an expert in any way shape or form. But what I absolutely love about this game is that it truly is a vitrual world: one server, go anywhere, do anything. It is trying to portray a futuristic society in space where there is no government. Just those who may or may not be your friends.
I understand you have to pay a subscription, I understand that you've put a lot of time and effort into the game, but this is something that they make you very well aware of and is something that makes the experience something that is truly unique. That fear of griefing, that fear of losing everything. But that's what makes it awesome, the fact that can actually happen, anytime, anywhere, and if you can't handle that then this game isn't for you. Can't you guys imagine that if a world actually did exist like New Eden in space there would be those griefers, those pirates, those scammers? That's what our world is like believe it or not. Just most of us don't see it as we live in a priveleged society where we play video games all day... It's sick but its an accurate portrayal of what that society would be like (I think at least). So CCP, please don't change it. Don't corrupt this immaculate world of no holds barred, deception, profiteering, piracy, backstabbing.. ugh I could go on.
Honestly, you're the one that should be happy that there is even hi-sec areas. If there weren't you would likely be sitting at maybe 1/3 of the population you're at now.
I just can't wrap my head around why Open World PVP/FFA guys can't understand that they are an extremely small minority of the gaming populace. Even with the PVP community you're a minority (extremely vocal one, but still a minority).
"The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently."
Originally posted by Hrimnir Originally posted by ProkaryotikI understand where you're coming from, I truly do. But you have to realize that the world of New Eden that CCP has created is supposed to be an emulation of a completely dog eat dog society where almost anything can happen. For all intents and purposes you should be happy there are even Hi-sec areas in my opinion.I have played this game on and off here and there for some time and I am by no means an expert in any way shape or form. But what I absolutely love about this game is that it truly is a vitrual world: one server, go anywhere, do anything. It is trying to portray a futuristic society in space where there is no government. Just those who may or may not be your friends.I understand you have to pay a subscription, I understand that you've put a lot of time and effort into the game, but this is something that they make you very well aware of and is something that makes the experience something that is truly unique. That fear of griefing, that fear of losing everything. But that's what makes it awesome, the fact that can actually happen, anytime, anywhere, and if you can't handle that then this game isn't for you. Can't you guys imagine that if a world actually did exist like New Eden in space there would be those griefers, those pirates, those scammers? That's what our world is like believe it or not. Just most of us don't see it as we live in a priveleged society where we play video games all day... It's sick but its an accurate portrayal of what that society would be like (I think at least). So CCP, please don't change it. Don't corrupt this immaculate world of no holds barred, deception, profiteering, piracy, backstabbing.. ugh I could go on.
Honestly, you're the one that should be happy that there is even hi-sec areas. If there weren't you would likely be sitting at maybe 1/3 of the population you're at now.
I just can't wrap my head around why Open World PVP/FFA guys can't understand that they are an extremely small minority of the gaming populace. Even with the PVP community you're a minority (extremely vocal one, but still a minority).
Yet when you count the people in Null sec + Low sec + Wormholes you have big chunk of the total players in Eve Online, not to mention most of uss all have 1 or 2 hisec alts....
Eve is unique and its whole economy is fueled from pvp losses, without it everything the industry guys create would be on the market lists for many many many weeks. Goodluck selling those ships and modules.
I wish we had more mmo's like this, even tough many people would like call it a "niche" game. CFC alone has 30k/35k accounts in our coalition, and tons of those are activated when a war breaks out and the call to arms is given. When The Mittani blow the warhorns everyone rejoice as profit is to be made from Hisec to nullsec, and insane amount of contend.
I wish CCP would focus more on those parts of the game instead of all those other little things, but CCP Seagul might just be the thing and the face to bring us just that.
Eve Online should always be the dog eat dog or if you get scammed your the one thats stupid. And for the people complaining about its community......sorry but i have not ever played an mmo with such high amnount of players willing to assist youngsters who cant even find a station in space. Not to mention Goons / Brave newbies/ Test recruiting 7 days old pilots to join the cause and grow up in a solid eve community where evrything is provided.
I realy realy love Eve if it wasnt for the mistakes CCP made with turning their face away from nullsec players. But i even understand why as they cant fix it all in one go, but they left Eve to rot for a long period of time to focus on Dust and WoD and now on Phoenix ? The next decade is hopefully a road to a alot of better things as Eve is without a doubt still the king of kings when it comes to sandbox games.
All one can read in the post I was referring to is that you are the man. The ONE man who has understood everything and thus the only valid worldview. You whine about the people in the community who you deem unable to understand the wisdom you are trying to purport and who in reality, like me, just don't give a rusty penny about what you see wrong with the game since.. you know.. they have fun with what they do.
Guys like you are in every game out there. The mere fact that they play the game already for an arbitrary timespan not only makes them complete experts for THIS game, no, they are also the worlds best designers, business specialists, marketing gurus and programmers, all in one person! At least in their own view. And whoever does not see that obvious fact like they do is a narrow minded dumbfuck without and idea any of course, as you chose to put it, a fascist. No less.
Thanks for the compliment, but you have better chances to discredit what I say by providing some semblance of argument instead.
I'll tell you below why you're wrong, though.
CCP is not flawless! Equally surprising, isn't it. Until now they showed a remarkable ability to learn from mistakes and also via the CSM they are the ONLY game developer where players have a regular say in the further development and changes of the game. All sure signs of no vision. I mean, at all.
lolno. Lots of games do that with small groups of players. The only difference is that they make less fuss over it. Also, CSM's influence in the game is debatable at best (ask any previous candidates)
You see for every feature in every game which is not blatantly broken there are people who like it and people who don't. In EvE every change has to be thought through very well of in terms of how it affects the economy. The economy in EvE IS the game, all other features only serve to feed it. When you give in to whiners and start changing around things at their whim and you you upset the production / destruction ratio too much, then EvE is truly in trouble.
So you're telling me the design team needs to do their job? Also when you quote any changes I suggested in my previous post I'll also send you a plex in game.
CCP is the only company, and for a good reason, having a full time economist of high profile to supervise their market.
It doesn't for quite a while now. Apparently you don't keep up with the news. Did you know about 30% of their team's layoffs this year as well?
11 years in you cannot just make drastic changes to any core game features without risking very complex repercussions in other systems.
Pretty sure their revamp of exploration, industry, warp speed, FW in the past couple years would defy that. Again, it's not my responsability or yours to worry about such things. Why do people always feel the need to defend against things they have no control over? Is it so shocking to expect CCP to fix their game?
But this will probably not excite you at all, since your verdict is already done. EvE will die if it is not "immediately" transformed into some hybrid of Elite, Star Citizen and whatever other games from completely different genres you want to name.
Again, quote me where I said we needed to transform into any of those games and I'll give you a PLEX.
See, this is exactly what I was talking about before. Any signs of criticism about the game is instantly met with the usual 'there's a very good reason we can't change whatever you're asking despite me not even knowing what you're asking to change'. Two posts ago I merely pointed out that:
a) Eve has a lack of development due to CCP's failures with previous projects and no interest of devoting full resources to it in future (fact)
b) There are big problems with the game's longevity due to a low playerbase retention, as evidenced by fanfest (fact)
c) The community will always jump to the defensive against any changes, despite knowing how broken some parts of the game after so many years (this forum and your posts are a good indication of that)
Originally posted by Arakazi EVE online, the 4chan of MMOs.
Actually that's WoW... try as we might we do not have furry hentai or slightly pedophilic tendencies. If EVE is like a forum... i'd say it is like MMORPG ironically ).
Thanks for the compliment, but you have better chances to discredit what I say by providing some semblance of argument instead.
I'll tell you below why you're wrong, though.
CCP is not flawless! Equally surprising, isn't it. Until now they showed a remarkable ability to learn from mistakes and also via the CSM they are the ONLY game developer where players have a regular say in the further development and changes of the game. All sure signs of no vision. I mean, at all.
lolno. Lots of games do that with small groups of players. The only difference is that they make less fuss over it. Also, CSM's influence in the game is debatable at best (ask any previous candidates)
You see for every feature in every game which is not blatantly broken there are people who like it and people who don't. In EvE every change has to be thought through very well of in terms of how it affects the economy. The economy in EvE IS the game, all other features only serve to feed it. When you give in to whiners and start changing around things at their whim and you you upset the production / destruction ratio too much, then EvE is truly in trouble.
So you're telling me the design team needs to do their job? Also when you quote any changes I suggested in my previous post I'll also send you a plex in game.
CCP is the only company, and for a good reason, having a full time economist of high profile to supervise their market.
It doesn't for quite a while now. Apparently you don't keep up with the news. Did you know about 30% of their team's layoffs this year as well?
11 years in you cannot just make drastic changes to any core game features without risking very complex repercussions in other systems.
Pretty sure their revamp of exploration, industry, warp speed, FW in the past couple years would defy that. Again, it's not my responsability or yours to worry about such things. Why do people always feel the need to defend against things they have no control over? Is it so shocking to expect CCP to fix their game?
But this will probably not excite you at all, since your verdict is already done. EvE will die if it is not "immediately" transformed into some hybrid of Elite, Star Citizen and whatever other games from completely different genres you want to name.
Again, quote me where I said we needed to transform into any of those games and I'll give you a PLEX.
See, this is exactly what I was talking about before. Any signs of criticism about the game is instantly met with the usual 'there's a very good reason we can't change whatever you're asking despite me not even knowing what you're asking to change'. Two posts ago I merely pointed out that:
a) Eve has a lack of development due to CCP's failures with previous projects and no interest of devoting full resources to it in future (fact)
b) There are big problems with the game's longevity due to a low playerbase retention, as evidenced by fanfest (fact)
c) The community will always jump to the defensive against any changes, despite knowing how broken some parts of the game after so many years (this forum and your posts are a good indication of that)
And people wonder why this game is stagnated.
Superb post.
Especially the part about the game stagnating and extremely defensive community. Ingame they are known as "bitter vets" who harass everyone else and want them to play their way or "go back to wow." Out of game they rush to defend any move by CCP going as far as attacking editors of MMO news sites like MMORPG.
Ccp are going to be between a rock and a hard place when the times arrives where eve/sc/elite all compete for players. At that point eve becomes the space mmo to go to for griefing a culture that blames the victim for griefing and hates pve, and a vet community that hates chane. Good luck on that.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
peoples , you must deal with it ,EVE is unique sand box MMORPG game ,none similar on horizon ,yet (maybe Repopulation but ,i am not optimistic too much,it have to finish at end as Perpetuum,Face of Mankind,or some another game in genre,just not good enough for replace EVE )
Sandbox awesome, open pvp awesome, economy awesome, gfx awesome etc, even scamming works here.
However it appears that CCP and a portion of the player base has over time become confused about what is open pvp and predatory gameplay in the eve universe and malicious griefing.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Severe offences may result in an immediate ban without warning; however, warnings may be given for first time offenses, followed by account suspensions of varying degree and ultimately a permanent ban if a player:
b. Uses role-playing as an excuse for violating the guidelines regarding fair play with others.
g. Engages in griefplay tactics which may include, but are not limited to, market/courier exploits.
***
So no Griefing is not part of Eve open world PVP. Scamming is, Ganking is, open PVP is. Unfortunately CCP has lost some control, and griefer are running uncontrolled, hence threads like this.
Guidelines are nice, as long as someone looks about it.
My last time in eve is about 2 years ago, is it so long? oh yeah. Well i decided to play again, for some month.
I like pvp, but in zones where i know it can happen.
What happened to me, 2 years ago, i was sitting whole 6 weeks in a high-sec station, because the corp i was in was wardecked the whole 6 weeks by 3 other corps, which where not in alliance, but working togehter, every week the wardeck stopped the next of that 3 gave us a war declaration.
So i ask you, isnt that abuse in game mechanics, to declare war for a very cheap price, in a rotation with 3 corps? isnt that griefing if i pay and am not able to do anything than to sit in a station.
the first years of eve was a better player base.
traders werent destroyed, because even pks did know, they need material transported by other, they had something like honor, that its no challenge to destroy a ship which cannot defend itself.
my experience now is, i pay money and time into something which gets destroyed by players in few days. what game experience is that? pay a subscription to see you money get popped into space?
the mechanics are all useless, as long as there are ways for griefers to get around them, AND NOT GETTING A SENTENCE FOR THAT.
But it was funny, to be honest, to be more safe in a player ruled 0.0 sector than in high-sec. Insame mechanics.
I agree , war dec is game breaking features for industrial/pve high sector players, usual & most time war dec corp in high sec are cowards,assholes who war dec to pve / mining/pve corp . PvE fitted ship can't defend yourself engaged by pvp fitted ship.
But it was funny, to be honest, to be more safe in a player ruled 0.0 sector than in high-sec. Insame mechanics.
It's not your imagination, the vast majority of player controlled space is empty and much safer than even high sec just because there are barely any other players around besides yourself and your corp mates. This is way its best to start out in nullsec even if just as a renter.
So you expect people to actually pay a subscription fee just to play a game where the goal of the game is to scam and grief people?
...
Lolz.
Yup, throughout the years Eve has been nothing more than a game designed for gankers/griefers. No reason to even give this game a second look.
Well this game certianly does not hold your hand but there are many a carebear in this game that have learned how to play this game, be profitable and enjoy themselves. Some people learn how to make things work no matter what is put in front of them, then there are others that just tuck tail and leave.
Really, i think if people have the opinion they do not like a game and it is just not for them they should maybe say that and not tell others not to play it. Just because it is not for you does not mean others will not like it.
Comments
When EvE doesn't change in a way which would please you short term but destroy all longevity, then it is doomed to die. And that people are telling this exact prophecy since years with remarkable lack of results doesn't make a dent in your belief system.
You are funny.
Here's a live example of what I'm talking about. At the first sign of critique you jump to the 'go back to wow' knee jerk, having no clue what is even in discussion.
Fyi I am a live player for quite a while and your assumptions about me couldn't be any more retarded. I'm not asking for "any way to please my short terms", whatever that means.
Or are you going to deny the lack of development for the past 4 years or so? Years after years of half implemented gameplay systems that are in need of overhaul are still left in the dust (pos mechanics, corp roles, multi core processing support hindering progress of any future gameplay features, the abnorrent sov system that promotes nothing but blob warfare and stagnation of power blocs in nullsec, the list goes on). Meanwhile, today we get things like new deployables, tweaked ship stats and new ship skins and are happy to call it an 'expansion' while every year at Fanfest there are more and more changes being promissed that are always as vague as possible and get put into the backseat the following year. And it doesn't help knowing how they keep wasting budget to make new games that either fail (wod, dust 514) or that take considerable development costs (valkyrie, legion) and have a much reduced staff since the past few months.
If that's not lack of vision and effort on CCP's part I don't know what it is.
The only prophecy being told since the dawn of the game is that if CCP doesn't step up their game they're going to lose players to other games (including their core playerbase). Judging by the amount of bittervets you see around and no signs of improving the game in any meaningful way, I'd say that's exactly what's happening so far.
Your post is funny because it shows exactly what's wrong with this community. Gankers and griefers that people complain around here are easily dealt with and usually only show signs of incompetence by the 'harassed' player. People with your narrow views that everything in the game is fine and that nothing needs changing are what always keep it back.
So you are trying to say that for those of us who dont want to be scammed, to give it a try no matter what? Thank you, NO, EVE Online is not for everyone and more abusive towards new players the game becomes more customers you are going to loose. JMust read their forums, the vast majority of players dont want new players in game.
want 7 free days of playing? Try this
http://www.swtor.com/r/ZptVnY
A) Show me where I used any of the following terms: "go", "back", "wow. If you finf any of them in the post you quote I send you a PLEX ingame.
All one can read in the post I was referring to is that you are the man. The ONE man who has understood everything and thus the only valid worldview. You whine about the people in the community who you deem unable to understand the wisdom you are trying to purport and who in reality, like me, just don't give a rusty penny about what you see wrong with the game since.. you know.. they have fun with what they do.
Guys like you are in every game out there. The mere fact that they play the game already for an arbitrary timespan not only makes them complete experts for THIS game, no, they are also the worlds best designers, business specialists, marketing gurus and programmers, all in one person! At least in their own view. And whoever does not see that obvious fact like they do is a narrow minded dumbfuck without and idea any of course, as you chose to put it, a fascist. No less.
(Just in case you accidentally edit your first post.)
Bittervetsin game forums after 11 years... Yeah, that's of course a sure sign of a dying game. Forget the fact that most games never even come near that lifespan and even less games have people after those 11 years who still care enough to talk some bittervet talk.
CCP is not flawless! Equally surprising, isn't it. Until now they showed a remarkable ability to learn from mistakes and also via the CSM they are the ONLY game developer where players have a regular say in the further development and changes of the game. All sure signs of no vision. I mean, at all.
You see for every feature in every game which is not blatantly broken there are people who like it and people who don't. In EvE every change has to be thought through very well of in terms of how it affects the economy. The economy in EvE IS the game, all other features only serve to feed it. When you give in to whiners and start changing around things at their whim and you you upset the production / destruction ratio too much, then EvE is truly in trouble.
CCP is the only company, and for a good reason, having a full time economist of high profile to supervise their market. You don't get director of a university, not even in Iceland, when your only merit is "Yeah the last few years I just cared about the ingame economy of some generic fantasy MMO where the best stuff drops in scripted raid dungeons and crafting is an afterthought." - But it works with EvE. Fascinating, eh?
11 years in you cannot just make drastic changes to any core game features without risking very complex repercussions in other systems. How the industry changes of last week will play out medium / long term has to be seen but it is far from only being a cosmetic change. They put elements od risk and reward into production and how this will affect the economy as a whole when people start realizing that a lot of extremely valuable BPOs and BPCs have to be transported and stored in POSs now and that there is a new way to piss off people with work teams and dynamic pricing.
But this will probably not excite you at all, since your verdict is already done. EvE will die if it is not "immediately" transformed into some hybrid of Elite, Star Citizen and whatever other games from completely different genres you want to name. Who says otherwise is obviously a fascist redneck without a clue and only hallucinates having fun with all the game systems you don't like or use. World's simple, right?
I'm not going to read page long posts or argue with anyone, I played EVE and I enjoyed it and learned a lot from it. Having said that, the developers are becoming toxic and the community is becoming toxic to the level where it's unplayable. You simply cannot do whatever you want to do anymore.
Griefers can ruin so much of the game that there are very limited things you can do without constant worry of getting scammed or griefed, and I don't think its what games should be about (obviously not everyone shares this thought). The fact that these "virtual" gamers can also harass you in real life without ingame or real life punishment is even more disturbing.
I will close by saying that this game could have gone places and still has a chance if the developers set it back on a decent track, meaning not only fixing the community but the game too, there are still many issues: insane PLEX costs, horrible industry system, no significant new features in the past 2-3 years (FW, WH's, were great additions).
o.O
Not sure what the o.0 signifies.
But to comment to Rylah's post, they fired the often cited "PhD" economist a long time ago. Goons run the economy now and whatever they don't like just disappears.
Honestly, you're the one that should be happy that there is even hi-sec areas. If there weren't you would likely be sitting at maybe 1/3 of the population you're at now.
I just can't wrap my head around why Open World PVP/FFA guys can't understand that they are an extremely small minority of the gaming populace. Even with the PVP community you're a minority (extremely vocal one, but still a minority).
"The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently."
- Friedrich Nietzsche
I just can't wrap my head around why Open World PVP/FFA guys can't understand that they are an extremely small minority of the gaming populace. Even with the PVP community you're a minority (extremely vocal one, but still a minority).
Yet when you count the people in Null sec + Low sec + Wormholes you have big chunk of the total players in Eve Online, not to mention most of uss all have 1 or 2 hisec alts....
Eve is unique and its whole economy is fueled from pvp losses, without it everything the industry guys create would be on the market lists for many many many weeks.
Goodluck selling those ships and modules.
I wish we had more mmo's like this, even tough many people would like call it a "niche" game.
CFC alone has 30k/35k accounts in our coalition, and tons of those are activated when a war breaks out and the call to arms is given.
When The Mittani blow the warhorns everyone rejoice as profit is to be made from Hisec to nullsec, and insane amount of contend.
I wish CCP would focus more on those parts of the game instead of all those other little things, but CCP Seagul might just be the thing and the face to bring us just that.
Eve Online should always be the dog eat dog or if you get scammed your the one thats stupid.
And for the people complaining about its community......sorry but i have not ever played an mmo with such high amnount of players willing to assist youngsters who cant even find a station in space.
Not to mention Goons / Brave newbies/ Test recruiting 7 days old pilots to join the cause and grow up in a solid eve community where evrything is provided.
I realy realy love Eve if it wasnt for the mistakes CCP made with turning their face away from nullsec players.
But i even understand why as they cant fix it all in one go, but they left Eve to rot for a long period of time to focus on Dust and WoD and now on Phoenix ?
The next decade is hopefully a road to a alot of better things as Eve is without a doubt still the king of kings when it comes to sandbox games.
One day it must look like this
Fly dangerous o/
Thanks for the compliment, but you have better chances to discredit what I say by providing some semblance of argument instead.
I'll tell you below why you're wrong, though.
CCP is not flawless! Equally surprising, isn't it. Until now they showed a remarkable ability to learn from mistakes and also via the CSM they are the ONLY game developer where players have a regular say in the further development and changes of the game. All sure signs of no vision. I mean, at all.
lolno. Lots of games do that with small groups of players. The only difference is that they make less fuss over it. Also, CSM's influence in the game is debatable at best (ask any previous candidates)
You see for every feature in every game which is not blatantly broken there are people who like it and people who don't. In EvE every change has to be thought through very well of in terms of how it affects the economy. The economy in EvE IS the game, all other features only serve to feed it. When you give in to whiners and start changing around things at their whim and you you upset the production / destruction ratio too much, then EvE is truly in trouble.
So you're telling me the design team needs to do their job? Also when you quote any changes I suggested in my previous post I'll also send you a plex in game.
CCP is the only company, and for a good reason, having a full time economist of high profile to supervise their market.
It doesn't for quite a while now. Apparently you don't keep up with the news. Did you know about 30% of their team's layoffs this year as well?
11 years in you cannot just make drastic changes to any core game features without risking very complex repercussions in other systems.
Pretty sure their revamp of exploration, industry, warp speed, FW in the past couple years would defy that. Again, it's not my responsability or yours to worry about such things. Why do people always feel the need to defend against things they have no control over? Is it so shocking to expect CCP to fix their game?
But this will probably not excite you at all, since your verdict is already done. EvE will die if it is not "immediately" transformed into some hybrid of Elite, Star Citizen and whatever other games from completely different genres you want to name.
Again, quote me where I said we needed to transform into any of those games and I'll give you a PLEX.
See, this is exactly what I was talking about before. Any signs of criticism about the game is instantly met with the usual 'there's a very good reason we can't change whatever you're asking despite me not even knowing what you're asking to change'. Two posts ago I merely pointed out that:
a) Eve has a lack of development due to CCP's failures with previous projects and no interest of devoting full resources to it in future (fact)
b) There are big problems with the game's longevity due to a low playerbase retention, as evidenced by fanfest (fact)
c) The community will always jump to the defensive against any changes, despite knowing how broken some parts of the game after so many years (this forum and your posts are a good indication of that)
And people wonder why this game is stagnated.
Actually that's WoW... try as we might we do not have furry hentai or slightly pedophilic tendencies. If EVE is like a forum... i'd say it is like MMORPG ironically
).
Superb post.
Especially the part about the game stagnating and extremely defensive community. Ingame they are known as "bitter vets" who harass everyone else and want them to play their way or "go back to wow." Out of game they rush to defend any move by CCP going as far as attacking editors of MMO news sites like MMORPG.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
Give me liberty or give me lasers
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
peoples , you must deal with it ,EVE is unique sand box MMORPG game ,none similar on horizon ,yet (maybe Repopulation but ,i am not optimistic too much,it have to finish at end as Perpetuum,Face of Mankind,or some another game in genre,just not good enough for replace EVE )
However it appears that CCP and a portion of the player base has over time become confused about what is open pvp and predatory gameplay in the eve universe and malicious griefing.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
Guidelines are nice, as long as someone looks about it.
My last time in eve is about 2 years ago, is it so long? oh yeah. Well i decided to play again, for some month.
I like pvp, but in zones where i know it can happen.
What happened to me, 2 years ago, i was sitting whole 6 weeks in a high-sec station, because the corp i was in was wardecked the whole 6 weeks by 3 other corps, which where not in alliance, but working togehter, every week the wardeck stopped the next of that 3 gave us a war declaration.
So i ask you, isnt that abuse in game mechanics, to declare war for a very cheap price, in a rotation with 3 corps? isnt that griefing if i pay and am not able to do anything than to sit in a station.
the first years of eve was a better player base.
traders werent destroyed, because even pks did know, they need material transported by other, they had something like honor, that its no challenge to destroy a ship which cannot defend itself.
my experience now is, i pay money and time into something which gets destroyed by players in few days. what game experience is that? pay a subscription to see you money get popped into space?
the mechanics are all useless, as long as there are ways for griefers to get around them, AND NOT GETTING A SENTENCE FOR THAT.
But it was funny, to be honest, to be more safe in a player ruled 0.0 sector than in high-sec. Insame mechanics.
It's not your imagination, the vast majority of player controlled space is empty and much safer than even high sec just because there are barely any other players around besides yourself and your corp mates. This is way its best to start out in nullsec even if just as a renter.
Yup, throughout the years Eve has been nothing more than a game designed for gankers/griefers. No reason to even give this game a second look.
Well this game certianly does not hold your hand but there are many a carebear in this game that have learned how to play this game, be profitable and enjoy themselves. Some people learn how to make things work no matter what is put in front of them, then there are others that just tuck tail and leave.
Really, i think if people have the opinion they do not like a game and it is just not for them they should maybe say that and not tell others not to play it. Just because it is not for you does not mean others will not like it.