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To all of those posting to avoid this game

ProkaryotikProkaryotik Edmonton, ABPosts: 38Member

I understand where you're coming from, I truly do. But you have to realize that the world of New Eden that CCP has created is supposed to be an emulation of a completely dog eat dog society where almost anything can happen. For all intents and purposes you should be happy there are even Hi-sec areas in my opinion.

I have played this game on and off here and there for some time and I am by no means an expert in any way shape or form. But what I absolutely love about this game is that it truly is a vitrual world: one server, go anywhere, do anything. It is trying to portray a futuristic society in space where there is no government. Just those who may or may not be your friends.

I understand you have to pay a subscription, I understand that you've put a lot of time and effort into the game, but this is something that they make you very well aware of and is something that makes the experience something that is truly unique. That fear of griefing, that fear of losing everything. But that's what makes it awesome, the fact that can actually happen, anytime, anywhere, and if you can't handle that then this game isn't for you. Can't you guys imagine that if a world actually did exist like New Eden in space there would be those griefers, those pirates, those scammers? That's what our world is like believe it or not. Just most of us don't see it as we live in a priveleged society where we play video games all day... It's sick but its an accurate portrayal of what that society would be like (I think at least). So CCP, please don't change it. Don't corrupt this immaculate world of no holds barred, deception, profiteering, piracy, backstabbing.. ugh I could go on.

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Comments

  • DeathengerDeathenger atco, NJPosts: 462Member Uncommon
    Agree 100%
  • AndrewGoatAndrewGoat St. Albans, WVPosts: 96Member

    So you expect people to actually pay a subscription fee just to play a game where the goal of the game is to scam and grief people?

     

    ...

     

    Lolz.

  • AzothAzoth montreal, QCPosts: 720Member Uncommon
    Just because the human race is trash doesn't mean it have to be reflected in a game. High sec killing can work since in most case the perpetrator loose something as well. But plain scam shouldnt be a part of a game. It doesn't add anything.
  • ProkaryotikProkaryotik Edmonton, ABPosts: 38Member

    No, what I'm saying is that they have the choice to pay it or not. No one's MAKING them pay the sub. Just saying that they should be well aware of what the game is like, they even get up to a 21 DAY FREE TRIAL before they have to pay... they decide to pay... then complain about the world they're playing in. It's completely unwarranted.

  • tawesstawess LkpgPosts: 2,532Member Uncommon

    OP, your post is the very reason why i tell people new to MMO´s to stay as far away from EvE as they can... I tell them to get a feel for what a MMO is and how people act by logging a few hours in WoW or some of the F2P games like Neverwinter or DCUO.

     

    I then tell them that if they like to face the absolut worst humanity has to offer on a daily basis, by all means go check EvE out. But i also explain that the first 4-5 months will be hell and boring as snail snot unless they get a sponsor... A sort of space-pimp  that takes care of them for what ever dark reason they choose.

     

    But i also tell them if they make it past that 6 month line the game starts to open up a bit and can develop in to a fairly fun game... It is just that the road there is filled with enough violation of humanity that they might pop a blood vessel.

     

     

    And before you ask.... I regged my account back in Feb -05... And have played on and off over the years.... So yes... I have some very solid ground for my statement.

  • Ramonski7Ramonski7 Aurora, ILPosts: 2,656Member Uncommon
    Honestly I try not to post about avoiding any particular game, I just avoid them.

    image
    "Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."

  • tawesstawess LkpgPosts: 2,532Member Uncommon
    I generally don´t post per se... I mostly speak to people.
  • DihoruDihoru ConstantaPosts: 2,731Member
    Originally posted by tawess
    I generally don´t post per se... I mostly speak to people.

    Somehow you lose all credibility when you list Entropia on your game list. Sorry that you believe that about EVE but from experience I got more drama in WoW in one month than I did in EVE for the first year so your milage may vary significantly. 

     

    Personally I prefer games where you can take actual revenge on someone that was a royal prick than not so EVE is far superior to WoW and most hand holdy theme parks for me.

    image
  • DamonVileDamonVile Vancouver, BCPosts: 4,818Member
    For a 10 year old game all these posts do is attract the right type of people to the game. They do nothing to actually hurt it.
  • BoltharBolthar Winter Springs, FLPosts: 62Member
    Originally posted by Prokaryotik

    That fear of griefing, that fear of losing everything. But that's what makes it awesome, the fact that can actually happen, anytime, anywhere, and if you can't handle that then this game isn't for you.

    This right here is the problem. if its a subscription based game AND you have people that are ACTIVELY doing griefing then it's not a game for me or a lot of the masses who don't appreciate their things they are attempting to be doing being ruined by others.

    This happening to a new player is essentially is the same as being a person who never comes to a beach, pays for parking, gets all their tools out, works on building the sand castle to have the local beach bums who are there ALL THE TIME come up to it and lay waste to the building you are trying to build and breaking the tools you were using.

    Your right its not my game and yes I will listen to the avoid this game posts.

    The problem with your statements in your OP is that you mention it is how people react in said society but in a "real" society it would not be behind a computer screen and anonymously and thus people would NOT behave the way they are in this computerized scenario. I would also imagine in this type of society in reality there would be those to help out against said "raiders" but there isn't that in eve because everyone is so glad their not the ones being ganked.

    You may like it the way it is because you like to pick on others but the people being picked on I assume are not liking it and thus posting these avoid this game posts.

  • BladestromBladestrom edinburghPosts: 4,941Member Uncommon
    Griefing at a loss purely to aggravate real players has nothing to do with risk v profit, or privateering, its about nasty behaviour by those who are bored.  Also multiple accounts where it gives an unfair advantage over single account players - that's wrong.

    rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar

    Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D

  • SovrathSovrath Boston Area, MAPosts: 18,451Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by AndrewGoat

    So you expect people to actually pay a subscription fee just to play a game where the goal of the game is to scam and grief people?

     

    ...

     

    Lolz.

    it's no more "Lolz" Than paying money where the goal fo the game is to reach end game and raid for gear. 

    It's no more "Lolz" than paying money for any game that has a goal that is attractive to the player.

     

    I'm not sure why that was difficult?

  • TalonsinTalonsin Posts: 1,467Member Uncommon

    I agree with the OP on most of it but over the years, the PLAYERS have changed.  We used to hear about great leaders who built alliances who did great things like Cyvok, Molle and Selene.  Now the biggest names in the game are scammers like Erotica, James315 and Mittani.  Null used to be a battlefield, today null is a giant NAP-fest and you can fly through it much safer than you can fly though highsec.  I have played it on and off for ten years and I cant say I am very happy with the direction the games community has taken things.  I think the devs went too far with the "be the villain" marketing campaign and they attracted too many people who only want to hurt others in a game. 

    If a person is looking for a game where the guy who has been your friend for the last month will rob his corpmates, then Eve is the game for you.

    If a person is looking for a game where you can buy things on the "auction house" (market) and still get scammed out of your money (reverse margin scam) then Eve is the game for you.

    If a person is looking for a game where a person asks for help with a mission and someone who seems helpful volunteers and then targets you in the middle of battle and destroys the ship it took you a month of grinding to save for, then Eve is the game for you.

    If a person is looking for a game where the tradehubs local chat is filled with non-stop, 24/7, rapid-fire scam attempts, then Eve is the game for you.

    If a person is looking for a game where mining in highsec offends people to the point several will ban together and suicide attack your mining barge, then Eve is the game for you.

    If a person who is looking for a game where ELITE pvpers suicide their ships into defenseless mining vessels or who sit at a warpgate and wait for an hour for some soft target to fly in, then Eve is the game for you.

     

    Don't get me wrong, I love the game and that is why I keep coming back but after a few months of seeing my friends and others get scammed and griefed over and over again, I decide the game is too vicious for me and my $15 a month and I leave.  I love the game, I don't care much for what the community has become. 

  • BladestromBladestrom edinburghPosts: 4,941Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Sovrath
    Originally posted by AndrewGoat

    So you expect people to actually pay a subscription fee just to play a game where the goal of the game is to scam and grief people?

     

    ...

     

    Lolz.

    it's no more "Lolz" Than paying money where the goal fo the game is to reach end game and raid for gear. 

    It's no more "Lolz" than paying money for any game that has a goal that is attractive to the player.

     

    I'm not sure why that was difficult?

    Is it really?  Open world no holds barred PVP is in the spirit of Eve, griefing is not. 

     

    rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar

    Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D

  • umcorianumcorian Boston, MAPosts: 466Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Prokaryotik

    I understand where you're coming from, I truly do. But you have to realize that the world of New Eden that CCP has created is supposed to be an emulation of a completely dog eat dog society where almost anything can happen. For all intents and purposes you should be happy there are even Hi-sec areas in my opinion.

    In my honest opinion, I'm just happy this game is no longer on my computer. I deal with the worst humanity has to offer on a daily basis for my job. I don't need it when I get home as well. 

  • DistopiaDistopia Baltimore, MDPosts: 16,898Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Sovrath
    Originally posted by AndrewGoat

    So you expect people to actually pay a subscription fee just to play a game where the goal of the game is to scam and grief people?

     

    ...

     

    Lolz.

    it's no more "Lolz" Than paying money where the goal fo the game is to reach end game and raid for gear. 

    It's no more "Lolz" than paying money for any game that has a goal that is attractive to the player.

     

    I'm not sure why that was difficult?

    I think it boils down to that in most communities this type of behavior is shunned, even in other sandboxes, scammers were the black sheep in SWG, once one was discovered their name was made known as a person to avoid, if they were in a guild they'd typically be kicked. IN EVE such behavior seems to be embraced to an extent.

    Your comparison though is quite odd, you're comparing players who get their jollies from the detriment of others to playstyles that don't effect the next person at all.

     

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

    It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

  • SovrathSovrath Boston Area, MAPosts: 18,451Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Bladestrom
    Originally posted by Sovrath
    Originally posted by AndrewGoat

    So you expect people to actually pay a subscription fee just to play a game where the goal of the game is to scam and grief people?

     

    ...

     

    Lolz.

    it's no more "Lolz" Than paying money where the goal fo the game is to reach end game and raid for gear. 

    It's no more "Lolz" than paying money for any game that has a goal that is attractive to the player.

     

    I'm not sure why that was difficult?

    Is it really?  Open world no holds barred PVP is in the spirit of Eve, griefing is not. 

     

    It's my understanding that the "universe of eve" is to allow the players to make their own way and to do what they want to do. You want to mine you can mine, you want to grief you can grief, you want to track down griefers you can do that.

    I've always been of the mind that to do anything, any activity, one must be on board with all of it.

    If I play a game where players can kill me and take everything then I must accept these rules as they are the rules of the game.

    If I play tackle football I don't cry because I'm tackled a little roughly.

    If I play Monopoly I don't cry because I need to sell hotels because I've landed on an opposing player's properties 3 times in a row.

    So "yeah" if a game has has "a goal" (note, it's not the only goal) where people can be griefers and pirates then yes anyone playing the game should be prepared.

    And if those players want to be the griefers and pirates and are willing to pay a subscription then "yes" I do think people will pay and be happy about their purchase provided that it is the game for them.

     

  • BladestromBladestrom edinburghPosts: 4,941Member Uncommon

    CCP Guidelines:

    3. HARASSMENT

    ...

    Severe offences may result in an immediate ban without warning; however, warnings may be given for first time offenses, followed by account suspensions of varying degree and ultimately a permanent ban if a player:

    • b. Uses role-playing as an excuse for violating the guidelines regarding fair play with others.
    • g. Engages in griefplay tactics which may include, but are not limited to, market/courier exploits.
     
    ***
     
    So no Griefing is not part of Eve open world PVP.  Scamming is, Ganking is, open PVP is. Unfortunately CCP has lost some control, and griefer are running uncontrolled, hence threads like this.

    rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar

    Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D

  • QuesaQuesa Sacramento, CAPosts: 1,246Member
    Originally posted by Distopia
    Originally posted by Sovrath
    Originally posted by AndrewGoat

    So you expect people to actually pay a subscription fee just to play a game where the goal of the game is to scam and grief people?

     

    ...

     

    Lolz.

    it's no more "Lolz" Than paying money where the goal fo the game is to reach end game and raid for gear. 

    It's no more "Lolz" than paying money for any game that has a goal that is attractive to the player.

     

    I'm not sure why that was difficult?

    I think it boils down to that in most communities this type of behavior is shunned, even in other sandboxes, scammers were the black sheep in SWG, once one was discovered their name was made known as a person to avoid, if they were in a guild they'd typically be kicked. IN EVE such behavior seems to be embraced to an extent.

    Your comparison though is quite odd, you're comparing players who get their jollies from the detriment of others to playstyles that don't effect the next person at all.

     

    I would say that a healthy majority of the players in EO shun scamming and griefing.  The point is, you are free to do so if you want and there are always those who choose to actively fight it as well.

    I agree with most of what the OP said but one thing I would change is that CCP didn't create a 'dog-eat-dog world' for us to play in, they gave us a world free of a lot of restrictions and the players then created that world.  The players really do control a lot of the events in the game, there is VERY LITTLE that is scripted.

  • sketocafesketocafe StoupaPosts: 800Member Uncommon
    griefing is so rare though, in my experience. Not saying it doesn't happen, just that new players need to understand that it's so rarely personal in EVE. You messed up and wandered into the wrong neighborhood and bad things happened to you. It's not because we didn't like you personally, it's because you were there.
  • Agent_JosephAgent_Joseph SarajevoPosts: 1,069Member Uncommon
    if someone dislike game play  , stop crying  & don't play , it is so easy

    only EVE is real MMO...but I am impressive with TSW

  • BladestromBladestrom edinburghPosts: 4,941Member Uncommon
    Griefing is not game play, no-one is 'crying', this is a forum.

    rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar

    Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D

  • shinkanshinkan BestinPosts: 229Member

    to OP

    Amen

  • KangaroomouseKangaroomouse MonacoPosts: 394Member

    The game has more scam shouts in local than the worst F2P has gold seller shouts.

    ----

    It's a cesspool of human feces and bottom feeders. It breeds assholes and griefers that are bored out of their mind because the game has nothing to offer.

    ----

    It has gotten worse over the years with only the real scum still trying to hold on to what little is left.

    ----

    It's a cool internet spreadsheet spaceship game though.

  • QuesaQuesa Sacramento, CAPosts: 1,246Member
    Originally posted by Bladestrom

    CCP Guidelines:

    3. HARASSMENT

    ...

    Severe offences may result in an immediate ban without warning; however, warnings may be given for first time offenses, followed by account suspensions of varying degree and ultimately a permanent ban if a player:

    • b. Uses role-playing as an excuse for violating the guidelines regarding fair play with others.
    • g. Engages in griefplay tactics which may include, but are not limited to, market/courier exploits.
     
    ***
     
    So no Griefing is not part of Eve open world PVP.  Scamming is, Ganking is, open PVP is. Unfortunately CCP has lost some control, and griefer are running uncontrolled, hence threads like this.

    Well, lets preface this by using some of the content at the top of the Policies page that will put this into some actual context.

    Though we have made every effort to anticipate all the possible circumstances we may encounter as caretakers of the persistent world of EVE Online, there issues may arise that we had not foreseen. Our players are free-thinking, creative and sometimes crafty individuals who possess the ability to enter into situations or create scenarios unexpectedly. Therefore, this document should not been seen as all-inclusive, but rather to give our players a general idea of the guidelines we follow in dealing with these or similar cases.

    You highlighed (b) which is nothing more than a catch-all to cover use of role-playing so players can't use lore to cover their in-game activities.

     

    Eve Online also attempts to define griefing in which it states:

    "In EVE, "griefing" refers to various activities, some of which can be argued not to be "griefing" in the classic sense, but parts of valid gameplay. There are certain forms of griefing that can get you banned from the game. These include (but probably are not limited to) can baiting in rookie systems and certain forms of verbal harassment".

    After which, it lists some of the types of griefing, here.

     

    With very little effort, I was also able to find:

    A grief player, or "griefer," is a player who devotes much of his time to making others’ lives miserable, in a large part deriving his enjoyment of the game from these activities while he does not profit from it in any way. Grief tactics are the mechanics a griefer will utilize to antagonize other players. At our discretion, players who are found to be consistently maliciously interfering with the game experience for others may receive a warning, temporary suspension or permanent banning of his account.

    This should not be confused with standard conflict that might arise between two (or more) players, such as corporation wars. The EVE universe is a harsh universe largely driven by such conflict and notice must be taken of the fact that nonconsensual combat alone is not considered to be grief play per the above definition.

    An example of grief play would be the so called "Can baiting" in starter systems. An experienced player drops a cargo container with some items and waits for a new player to take from it. The new player is flagged and promptly attacked and killed by the owner of the container. Doing the same in the systems the Blood Stained Stars epic arc takes you through is also considered grief play and will not be tolerated.

     

    I think the biggest problem here is that there are different definitions of "griefing" and people tend to use the term 'griefing' in their own way.  So while some players say that they are or are being 'griefed' it doesn't mean that the actual activity being performed meets the criteria of GM action.

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