Originally posted by Theocritus I dont know why every game maker doesnt start their game in Asia first...The Koreans and Chinese just seem more rabid about their gaming and are willing to spend whatever it takes.
You realise China has 1.4 billion people right? 3.8 million sales (if thats that the origional chinese site claimed, which its not) would be equivalent to a couple hundred thousand sales in the US. Koreans rabid about thier games, yes. China on the other hand is just plain numbers. The same thing obviously applies to WoW.
See now you're playing statistics chess and making things up and asserting them as facts. Are the trends and curves the same between the US and China? That's an assertion you need to prove. Can you prove your assertion that China is just plain numbers? Where did you even get that from? What does that mean and how is that even relevant?
Like you said, the numbers shouldn't be taken too literally, but now you're stepping into promoting a bias by inventing facts.
The poster I quoted claimed Koreans and Chinese were rabid about their games...all I am saying is that high numbers for WoW and GW 2 (and many other F2P MMO in China) are more attributed to their population, rather than them being rabid gamers. Do you actually disagree, or are u just wanting to argue with me because I have a few times now pointed out that 17173.com took a consesus of charecters and not sales/accounts?
Not enough cash shop and grinding would be my guess. Both of those games are rather tame compared to most grinds in games that are successful in Asia. Original EQ with hell levels and all actually had a fairly decent Asia population, at least on Emarr back in the Kunark-PoP era, there were 3 separate raiding guilds from Asia.
I figured this game would be a big hit in China, I mentioned it a few month's ago here. The game is definitely more designed for their monetization platform with the extreme focus on the cash shop and paying for every convenience.
Also, the massive grind associated with the legendary weapons, ascended gear, etc. Appeals to a more grindy player base imo.
I didn't feel any need or big focus on cash shop convience when I played gw2. also I'm under the impression legendary weapons are mostly if not entirely just a grind for cosmetics. you make it sound like an asian grinder where you have to grind to compete. to me gw2 felt extremely grind free compared to all the other themepark mmos like WoW, wildstar, even ESO.
So yeah I'm entirely unconvinced by your reasoning, I have no idea why gw2 is big in china. maybe because it is actually different to WoW, or maybe because visually GW series has always had a fairly asian art style (bright unrealisticly lit super model avatars etc.)
And both are a census of charecters on each server, not one of them mentions accounts or sales. Nowhere does it even mention where the toon numbers came from (NCsoft nor KongZhong).
I am utterly amaized how a site like 17173.com in china compiles a list of charecters per server, someone on reddit takes it, doesnt even translate it propely, misinterprates what the data reprisents, adds a whole bunch of verbiage about sales etc, and the MMO media picks up his reddit post and runs with his description and passes off the added in sales info descriptors as coming from NCsoft.
GW2 is a beast and doing admirably, but this is getting a little crazy, no?
Not really crazy no. The analysis is a reasonable ballpark especially when you consider games like WoW touting 7M+ subscribers when a majority are in China and don't pay a monthly fee like the NA subbers do. We don't honestly believe WoW has that many active subscriptions but we do know it's doing incredibly well. The same goes for these numbers. Detailed accuracy isn't really the point. It doesn't change the point of the message.
Its not the accuracy that im tlaking about, its what the number represents. I am sure the 3.8 million is accurate, its just that the number is charecters, not accounts/sales. The thing I'm calling crazy is that a reddit poster took charecter numbers, added a whole bunch on spin about sales in X amount of time etc etc (even though the origional chinese post doesnt), and every MMO media outlet picked up on his reddit post and ran with it.
TLDR: Chinese site claims 3.8 mill charecters, reddit poster claims 3.8 million sales/accounts, MMO media picks up on the reddit post and reports on 3.8 million sales...THAT is whats crazy.
TLDR: Chinese site does not claim the numbers are characters and never used any word that might be missunderstood as "characters". Mmorpg.com poster claims Chinese site claimed character numbers. Makes up story about a crazy spin by the GW2 enthusiast
Show me on the origional site where it claims sales or accounts. I know you like to reply to every one of my posts regarding GW2, but its getting out of hand now.
yet you claim the first census of 760k players was characters?
Huge conspiracy. They are affiliated with GW2 so they must be lying too and spinning the truth. Disregard the legal liability and details like that.
The hypocrisy to these reports is entertaining though
WoW reports big numbers from China - 10 Million! A sub is a sub. Even it they are not actually subs. If you disagree about the semantics you are a racist WoW hater! They are player like us. 10 Million happy player paying 15$ a month, even if most are not actually doing that. Proof for its superior quality!
GW2 reports big numbers from China - same people - Oh its just Chinese. They pay little Dollars. Doesnt count. They have so many people! Infalted! Doesnt count. They like grind games. Like Gw2. Bad news for you! Ha! B2P thats just like F2P. Doesnt count at all. GW2 is dead 99% quit! Its true because I said so. The proof is out there because I said so.
I never said any of those things. Please stop quoting me just to spew your defensive nonsense.
And in case you missed it, 17173.com (the origional source of all of this) is not KongZhong. Nowhere in the census on 17173.com does it claim the numbers came form KongZhong.
17173.com is registered to HICHINA ZHICHENG TECHNOLOGY LTD.
The chinese article never mentions 3.8M sales in china, it only lists characters on different servers. The claim of 3.8M sales is made by a reddit user.
Iselin: And the next person who says "but it's a business, they need to make money" can just go fuck yourself.
The chinese article never mentions 3.8M sales in china, it only lists characters on different servers. The claim of 3.8M sales is made by a reddit user.
'Sandbox MMO' is a PTSD trigger word for anyone who has the experience to know that anonymous players invariably use a 'sandbox' in the same manner a housecat does.
When your head is stuck in the sand, your ass becomes the only recognizable part of you.
No game is more fun than the one you can't play, and no game is more boring than one which you've become familiar.
How to become a millionaire: Start with a billion dollars and make an MMO.
What's scary is that the people who are objective about the stats are the ones that are wrong until proven right, while the ones who are completely misinformed and are spreading that misinformation are the ones given the benefit of the doubt.
NOWHERE does it say the census is listing accounts per server at the original source of the census. Anyone that can read chinese characters can verify this.
This explains why I never got addicted to GW2, the Asian gamers love it , kidding aside.
Man, I remember the hype this game was given on this website as well as fan boy posters and haters.
People were comparing Amazon sales and Retail sales and stating this was going to be the mmo of all mmo's.
I lasted a good month on this game, I still can't figure out why I never continued since its a B2P, maybe it's time for me to go back and check out this game. 3.8 million sales can't be wrong or can they?
I never said any of those things. Please stop quoting me just to spew your defensive nonsense.
Funny because I neiter quoted you in that post, didn't refer to you directly or by name, nor did I say that you personaly said that.
You can calm down boy.
Though considering the constant nonsense vitrol you spew about GW2 and GW2 player I have doubt you never said some of it though in previous post. No in fact I remember you actuall did say some of the this nonsense before.
You edit out my quote from your post after initially posting it, and you have the nerve to tell me that you never quoted or referred to me, and for me to calm down?
Go read your inital post, I quoted it before your edit in #43
The only thing I have said all along in this thread, is that accounts created/copies sold is no indication of a games current player base, and that nobody but a reddit user has claimed that GW2 has sold 3.8 mill in China...if that is "Vitrol", you need to grow some thicker skin.
I figured this game would be a big hit in China, I mentioned it a few month's ago here. The game is definitely more designed for their monetization platform with the extreme focus on the cash shop and paying for every convenience.
Also, the massive grind associated with the legendary weapons, ascended gear, etc. Appeals to a more grindy player base imo.
so GW2 has a massive grind for a single type of gear but you are playing (based on your signature) 2 mmos that are alot more grind based? you just killed your entire post right there. Also, extreme focus on cash shop and paying for every convenience? HAHA clearly you havent played GW2. It has the less intrusive cash shop in any mmo that uses the cash shop model to stay alive. Check your facts before trolling with irrelevant opinions and misinformation. You dont like the game, that is fine. Just move on to what you like. The game wont be any less successful because you dont like it.
And both are a census of charecters on each server, not one of them mentions accounts or sales.
doodphace did claim the 1st census of 760k was characters ( i strongly disagree that 760k is characters)
otherwise i agree with him - this census data is not reliable unless it's from KongZhong
Ya my bad, I assumed the "first" one you mentioned was from 17131.com as well. Looking at it again, I see it was from KongZhong themselves. This second unoffical census never mentioninig anything but "server census" is what I have been questioning. Actually, I am more quesitnging how MMO media sites are picking up and running with reddit user claims more than anything.
I never said any of those things. Please stop quoting me just to spew your defensive nonsense.
Funny because I neiter quoted you in that post, didn't refer to you directly or by name, nor did I say that you personaly said that.
You can calm down boy.
Though considering the constant nonsense vitrol you spew about GW2 and GW2 player I have doubt you never said some of it though in previous post. No in fact I remember you actuall did say some of the this nonsense before.
Originally posted by doodphace "
And in case you missed it, 17173.com (the origional source of all of this) is not KongZhong. Nowhere in the census on 17173.com does it claim the numbers came form KongZhong."
And in case you missed it I quoted and responded to a post talking about the investor call fromir.kongzhong.com which is certainly KongZong. I didn't even say anything about 17173.com's relation with KongZhong. Stop arguing against things you make up in your head.
Please stop editing your posts after I have responded to them...ill paste my replay again...
You edit out my quote from your post after initially posting it, and you have the nerve to tell me that you never quoted or referred to me, and for me to calm down?
Go read your inital post, I quoted it before your edit here #43
The only thing I have said all along in this thread, is that accounts created/copies sold is no indication of a games current player base, and that nobody but a reddit user has claimed that GW2 has sold 3.8 mill in China...if that is "Vitrol", you need to grow some thicker skin.
Its two censuses made on the same site.The most popular server in the first census has a total population of 46,725. Two months later the most popular server has a total population of 304773. If the most popular servers were massively crowded with 46.725 players on them, imagine how it would be two months later if there were 304.773 players on it.
By that account the most logical would be that its characters and not players.
Iselin: And the next person who says "but it's a business, they need to make money" can just go fuck yourself.
What's scary is that the people who are objective about the stats are the ones that are wrong until proven right, while the ones who are completely misinformed and are spreading that misinformation are the ones given the benefit of the doubt.
NOWHERE does it say the census is listing accounts per server at the original source of the census. Anyone that can read chinese characters can verify this.
Hold on pal! It's already on Wikipedia... So it must be true.
Look, GW2 already the 7th best selling PC game of all times:
yet you claim the first census of 760k players was characters?
Huge conspiracy. They are affiliated with GW2 so they must be lying too and spinning the truth. Disregard the legal liability and details like that.
The hypocrisy to these reports is entertaining though
WoW reports big numbers from China - 10 Million! A sub is a sub. Even it they are not actually subs. If you disagree about the semantics you are a racist WoW hater! They are player like us. 10 Million happy player paying 15$ a month, even if most are not actually doing that. Proof for its superior quality!
GW2 reports big numbers from China - same people - Oh its just Chinese. They pay little Dollars. Doesnt count. They have so many people! Infalted! Doesnt count. They like grind games. Like Gw2. Bad news for you! Ha! B2P thats just like F2P. Doesnt count at all. GW2 is dead 99% quit! Its true because I said so. The proof is out there because I said so.
I never said any of those things. Please stop quoting me just to spew your defensive nonsense.
And in case you missed it, 17173.com (the origional source of all of this) is not KongZhong. Nowhere in the census on 17173.com does it claim the numbers came form KongZhong.
17173.com is registered to HICHINA ZHICHENG TECHNOLOGY LTD.
I never said any of those things. Please stop quoting me just to spew your defensive nonsense.
Funny because I neiter quoted you in that post, didn't refer to you directly or by name, nor did I say that you personaly said that.
You can calm down boy.
Though considering the constant nonsense vitrol you spew about GW2 and GW2 player I have doubt you never said some of it though in previous post. No in fact I remember you actuall did say some of the this nonsense before.
You edit out my quote from your post after initially posting it, and you have the nerve to tell me that you never quoted or referred to me, and for me to calm down?
Go read your inital post, I quoted it before your edit in #43
The only thing I have said all along in this thread, is that accounts created/copies sold is no indication of a games current player base, and that nobody but a reddit user has claimed that GW2 has sold 3.8 mill in China...if that is "Vitrol", you need to grow some thicker skin.
Yes because I didnt quote you but him, didnt respond to anything you said but only to his comment and contents of the KongZong sources he posted, didnt say you personally said anything of these general things (in the first post) and didnt mention your name explecitely.
I never edited anything out what you said "I said" or "did". Your own quote proves it.
The irony is you started the argument making things up about what the Chinese sites allegedly said about "characters created" and "character per server lists" (but never did) and now push more of your nonsense into my mouth the defend it.
Congratulations at arguing with and against your immagination.
His comment was regarding me claiming the new numbers came form some "chinese site". His (incorrect) argument was that they came from KongZhing themselves ( I have since proved otherwise, and he conceded to that and agrees). Your reply to that was since KongZhong was affiliates with GW2, "its a consparicy and they must be lieing".
Who are you trying to trying to fool here? You left my quote in there, then removed it after. I only said what I said because you had my quote in there, and your "conspiracy they must be lies" was in direct reference to my "Chinese site" statement that you left in and subsequently removed.
I really don't know what your agenda is here, but can you please leave me out of it?
What's scary is that the people who are objective about the stats are the ones that are wrong until proven right, while the ones who are completely misinformed and are spreading that misinformation are the ones given the benefit of the doubt.
NOWHERE does it say the census is listing accounts per server at the original source of the census. Anyone that can read chinese characters can verify this.
Hold on pal! It's already on Wikipedia... So it must be true.
Look, GW2 already the 7th best selling PC game of all times:
* Proceeds to check source of wikipedia claim and date of edition *
Oh. Looks like a snake biting its own tail.
Ya that's crazy because the site does not say those are accounts per server, yet people are claiming they are, without even understanding what the site says... like has journalism and reading comprehension gotten this poor in the western world?
Ya that's crazy because the site does not say those are accounts per server, yet people are claiming they are, without even understanding what the site says... like has journalism and reading comprehension gotten this poor in the western world?
It's just clickbait. They don't care if it's accurate, no one is going to sue them if it's not. But getting people to click it pays more money. That's all internet news is anymore.
Comments
The poster I quoted claimed Koreans and Chinese were rabid about their games...all I am saying is that high numbers for WoW and GW 2 (and many other F2P MMO in China) are more attributed to their population, rather than them being rabid gamers. Do you actually disagree, or are u just wanting to argue with me because I have a few times now pointed out that 17173.com took a consesus of charecters and not sales/accounts?
EQ launched a localized China version in 2003
http://ubi.com/ES/News/Info.aspx?nId=3175
and shutdown the server two years later in Jan 2005
http://pacificepoch.com/china-investment-research/articles/everquest-ends-quests-in-china-on-jan-31/
i believe the EQ2 Japan server, Sebilis, is still active but the forums were shutdown
http://eq2wire.com/2013/08/28/official-french-german-japanese-eq2-forums-being-shut-down/
EQ2 fan sites
I didn't feel any need or big focus on cash shop convience when I played gw2. also I'm under the impression legendary weapons are mostly if not entirely just a grind for cosmetics. you make it sound like an asian grinder where you have to grind to compete. to me gw2 felt extremely grind free compared to all the other themepark mmos like WoW, wildstar, even ESO.
So yeah I'm entirely unconvinced by your reasoning, I have no idea why gw2 is big in china. maybe because it is actually different to WoW, or maybe because visually GW series has always had a fairly asian art style (bright unrealisticly lit super model avatars etc.)
My blog:
At some point Anet and NCsoft were thinking months ago:
¨So we can spend a lot of money and resources to improve the game or just launch it on china¨.
So, now we know what are the Anet and NCsoft priorities and why we have no news about real content or an xpac for the game.
Show me on the origional site where it claims sales or accounts. I know you like to reply to every one of my posts regarding GW2, but its getting out of hand now.
Chinese site = KongZhong Corporation, the operator of Guild Wars 2 in China's official statistical data
GW2 China had a half million in presales (accounts not characters)
https://forum-en.guildwars2.com/forum/game/gw2/KongZhong-Details-about-GW2-China
yet you claim the first census of 760k players was characters?
EQ2 fan sites
17173.com is not KongZhong. Nowhere in the census on 17173.com does it claim the numbers came form KongZhong.
So yes, Chinese site claims.....
thank you - i did not know
EQ2 fan sites
I never said any of those things. Please stop quoting me just to spew your defensive nonsense.
And in case you missed it, 17173.com (the origional source of all of this) is not KongZhong. Nowhere in the census on 17173.com does it claim the numbers came form KongZhong.
The chinese article never mentions 3.8M sales in china, it only lists characters on different servers. The claim of 3.8M sales is made by a reddit user.
^This
'Sandbox MMO' is a PTSD trigger word for anyone who has the experience to know that anonymous players invariably use a 'sandbox' in the same manner a housecat does.
When your head is stuck in the sand, your ass becomes the only recognizable part of you.
No game is more fun than the one you can't play, and no game is more boring than one which you've become familiar.
How to become a millionaire:
Start with a billion dollars and make an MMO.
What's scary is that the people who are objective about the stats are the ones that are wrong until proven right, while the ones who are completely misinformed and are spreading that misinformation are the ones given the benefit of the doubt.
NOWHERE does it say the census is listing accounts per server at the original source of the census. Anyone that can read chinese characters can verify this.
This explains why I never got addicted to GW2, the Asian gamers love it
, kidding aside.
Man, I remember the hype this game was given on this website as well as fan boy posters and haters.
People were comparing Amazon sales and Retail sales and stating this was going to be the mmo of all mmo's.
I lasted a good month on this game, I still can't figure out why I never continued since its a B2P, maybe it's time for me to go back and check out this game. 3.8 million sales can't be wrong or can they?
You edit out my quote from your post after initially posting it, and you have the nerve to tell me that you never quoted or referred to me, and for me to calm down?
Go read your inital post, I quoted it before your edit in #43
The only thing I have said all along in this thread, is that accounts created/copies sold is no indication of a games current player base, and that nobody but a reddit user has claimed that GW2 has sold 3.8 mill in China...if that is "Vitrol", you need to grow some thicker skin.
doodphace did claim the 1st census of 760k was characters ( i strongly disagree that 760k is characters)
otherwise i agree with him - this census data is not reliable unless it's from KongZhong
EQ2 fan sites
so GW2 has a massive grind for a single type of gear but you are playing (based on your signature) 2 mmos that are alot more grind based? you just killed your entire post right there. Also, extreme focus on cash shop and paying for every convenience? HAHA clearly you havent played GW2. It has the less intrusive cash shop in any mmo that uses the cash shop model to stay alive. Check your facts before trolling with irrelevant opinions and misinformation. You dont like the game, that is fine. Just move on to what you like. The game wont be any less successful because you dont like it.
Ya my bad, I assumed the "first" one you mentioned was from 17131.com as well. Looking at it again, I see it was from KongZhong themselves. This second unoffical census never mentioninig anything but "server census" is what I have been questioning. Actually, I am more quesitnging how MMO media sites are picking up and running with reddit user claims more than anything.
Please stop editing your posts after I have responded to them...ill paste my replay again...
You edit out my quote from your post after initially posting it, and you have the nerve to tell me that you never quoted or referred to me, and for me to calm down?
Go read your inital post, I quoted it before your edit here #43
The only thing I have said all along in this thread, is that accounts created/copies sold is no indication of a games current player base, and that nobody but a reddit user has claimed that GW2 has sold 3.8 mill in China...if that is "Vitrol", you need to grow some thicker skin.
[mod edit]
First census
Second census
Its two censuses made on the same site.The most popular server in the first census has a total population of 46,725. Two months later the most popular server has a total population of 304773. If the most popular servers were massively crowded with 46.725 players on them, imagine how it would be two months later if there were 304.773 players on it.
By that account the most logical would be that its characters and not players.
Hold on pal! It's already on Wikipedia... So it must be true.
Look, GW2 already the 7th best selling PC game of all times:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_PC_games
* Proceeds to check source of wikipedia claim and date of edition *
Oh. Looks like a snake biting its own tail.
His comment was regarding me claiming the new numbers came form some "chinese site". His (incorrect) argument was that they came from KongZhing themselves ( I have since proved otherwise, and he conceded to that and agrees). Your reply to that was since KongZhong was affiliates with GW2, "its a consparicy and they must be lieing".
Who are you trying to trying to fool here? You left my quote in there, then removed it after. I only said what I said because you had my quote in there, and your "conspiracy they must be lies" was in direct reference to my "Chinese site" statement that you left in and subsequently removed.
I really don't know what your agenda is here, but can you please leave me out of it?
Ya that's crazy because the site does not say those are accounts per server, yet people are claiming they are, without even understanding what the site says... like has journalism and reading comprehension gotten this poor in the western world?
It's just clickbait. They don't care if it's accurate, no one is going to sue them if it's not. But getting people to click it pays more money. That's all internet news is anymore.