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The word "endgame" really ticks me off

TorgrimTorgrim GothenburgPosts: 2,088Member

I so much hate the word endgame, why are endgame 2-3 dungeons you have to do hundreds of times to get the gear you want then it will be obselete when the next update goes live.

Why has this obselete gameplay been so popular, why do you like this kind of gameplay?, I mean as soon as you got everything you have you have start all over again, everything you have invested, time, money are gone.

Why do you like endgame?

 

If it's not broken, you are not innovating.

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Comments

  • TheQuietGamerTheQuietGamer brightonPosts: 317Member
    Originally posted by Torgrim

    I so much hate the word endgame, why are endgame 2-3 dungeons you have to do hundreds of times to get the gear you want then it will be obselete when the next update goes live.

    Why has this obselete gameplay been so popular, why do you who love this kind of gameplay love it?, I mean as soon as you got everything you have you have start all over again, everything you have invested, time, money are gone.

    Why do you like endgame?

     

    It should be about the journey, not the destination.  That's what I think anyway.  I find the standard end-game gear grind tedious beyond comprehension.    

  • WightyWighty Westbury, NYPosts: 665Member Uncommon

    Endgame is nothing more than a Skinner box.

    What are your other Hobbies?

    Gaming is Dirt Cheap compared to this...

  • TorgrimTorgrim GothenburgPosts: 2,088Member
    Originally posted by TheQuietGamer
    Originally posted by Torgrim

    I so much hate the word endgame, why are endgame 2-3 dungeons you have to do hundreds of times to get the gear you want then it will be obselete when the next update goes live.

    Why has this obselete gameplay been so popular, why do you who love this kind of gameplay love it?, I mean as soon as you got everything you have you have start all over again, everything you have invested, time, money are gone.

    Why do you like endgame?

     

    It should be about the journey, not the destination.  That's what I think anyway.  I find the standard end-game gear grind tedious beyond comprehension.    

     

    Well for some odd reason MMOs are jus tthat way, still plenty of people just like you who dont like it, but we still get this edngame crap.

     

    If it's not broken, you are not innovating.

  • DibdabsDibdabs FelvershamPosts: 2,604Member Uncommon

    "Endgame" irritates me, too.  It's just "Groundhog Day" MMORPG content which is done for shiny loot, purely for shiny loot's sake.  Then, you get to do it again and again and again... until eventually the crushing tedium eventually puts off even the most easily amused of players.  The moment my characters reach the point of stepping aboard "The Hamster Wheel Of Monotony" that is "endgame" is when I quit the game and find something else to play.

    Anyone who finds repeating the same content over and over would be better off with a big mirror with a bell attached to it that they can peck at all day.

  • MMOExposedMMOExposed lalal land, DCPosts: 6,257Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Torgrim

    I so much hate the word endgame, why are endgame 2-3 dungeons you have to do hundreds of times to get the gear you want then it will be obselete when the next update goes live.

    Why has this obselete gameplay been so popular, why do you like this kind of gameplay?, I mean as soon as you got everything you have you have start all over again, everything you have invested, time, money are gone.

    Why do you like endgame?

     

    Wait, who said Endgame has to be that?!

     

    dont let these MMO developers con you...

    image

  • TheQuietGamerTheQuietGamer brightonPosts: 317Member
    Originally posted by Torgrim
    Originally posted by TheQuietGamer
    Originally posted by Torgrim

    I so much hate the word endgame, why are endgame 2-3 dungeons you have to do hundreds of times to get the gear you want then it will be obselete when the next update goes live.

    Why has this obselete gameplay been so popular, why do you who love this kind of gameplay love it?, I mean as soon as you got everything you have you have start all over again, everything you have invested, time, money are gone.

    Why do you like endgame?

     

    It should be about the journey, not the destination.  That's what I think anyway.  I find the standard end-game gear grind tedious beyond comprehension.    

     

    Well for some odd reason MMOs are jus tthat way, still plenty of people just like you who dont like it, but we still get this edngame crap.

     

    The last time I really enjoyed the journey (other than SWTOR which for all intents and purposes was a single player game) was in vanilla wow.  I made a lot of friends along the way due to the relatively shallow levelling curve and the requirement to group for certain content (and the lack of cross-server dungeon finders etc).  

    By the time I hit end-game I wanted to group up and raid just to have a laugh with mates.  Failing did not matter, we all laughed at the idiot who messed up and tried again.  

     

  • BootezBootez Yucaipa, CAPosts: 57Member

    I feel like designers should focus on the journey. A simple way to do that would be to have leveling take a gratuitious amount of time. There will always be an "endgame," but if leveling is the focus, and there is enough content for it, ya know, something like 300 levels, or something absurd, then there is also more room for players to join together in a wide range of these levels. My favorite leveling system of any game has been Anarchy Online. Not because of the way people level (which is pretty horrendous now since the game is so old and has been abandoned by the devs), but because of the concept. Leveling took a long time in that game. But if you were at least somewhat near the final levels, you were able to do "endgame" content. It look the focus off of hitting max level because you had a wide range you could do. 

     

    Another game like this (but with a different approach) is Guild Wars 2, although the whole hitting level 80 thing is still a prominent part of it. A lot of level 80s spend time in lower level zones and leveling isnt really the main goal of that game. 

     

    Apart from those two, I think Eve is also a game where endgame isn't necessarily the focus of the dev team. That game is as complex or as simple as you want it to be. Well, maybe not as simple as you want it to be, considering Eve, at its most basic level, is still extremely complex. 

     

  • KiljaedenasKiljaedenas New Westminster, BCPosts: 468Member
    Originally posted by Torgrim

    I so much hate the word endgame, why are endgame 2-3 dungeons you have to do hundreds of times to get the gear you want then it will be obselete when the next update goes live.

    Why has this obselete gameplay been so popular, why do you like this kind of gameplay?, I mean as soon as you got everything you have you have start all over again, everything you have invested, time, money are gone.

    Why do you like endgame?

     

    Not all "endgames" are equal to each other. In most themepark MMOs, yes, the endgame seems to be little more than a grindtastic grindfest of grinding a small handful of raid sites, because after players have gone through all of the developer-written story content there's nothing else really to do, and those games don't have enough tools available to the players for them to make their own meaningful content other than dipshitty fluff.

    However, there are a rare few where the endgame is not that. Unfortunately the word "rare" is extremely correct here.

    Where's the any key?

  • StonesDKStonesDK SomewherePosts: 1,805Member

    If only a MMORPG could have the loot system like Diablo and do away with raids completely, then I would be a happy grinder. As good as Diablo is, it's not the same as playing in a persistent world

    I'd rather grind months and farming the same bosses over and over, than be dependent on 10 - 40 people to advance.

     

    That's my only issue with endgame.

  • TheQuietGamerTheQuietGamer brightonPosts: 317Member
    Originally posted by Kiljaedenas
    Originally posted by Torgrim

    I so much hate the word endgame, why are endgame 2-3 dungeons you have to do hundreds of times to get the gear you want then it will be obselete when the next update goes live.

    Why has this obselete gameplay been so popular, why do you like this kind of gameplay?, I mean as soon as you got everything you have you have start all over again, everything you have invested, time, money are gone.

    Why do you like endgame?

     

    Not all "endgames" are equal to each other. In most themepark MMOs, yes, the endgame seems to be little more than a grindtastic grindfest of grinding a small handful of raid sites, because after players have gone through all of the developer-written story content there's nothing else really to do, and those games don't have enough tools available to the players for them to make their own meaningful content other than dipshitty fluff.

    However, there are a rare few where the endgame is not that. Unfortunately the word "rare" is extremely correct here.

    Gotta say it, correct is an absolute that does not require qualification.  It is hard to know how to do this without a skill-driven levelling system which means that effluxion of time creates more powerful players.  I am not sure if that is correct either.  

    Perhaps a game lasting 1-3 months is the way it should be...

     

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by StonesDK

    If only a MMORPG could have the loot system like Diablo and do away with raids completely, then I would be a happy grinder. As good as Diablo is, it's not the same as playing in a persistent world

    I'd rather grind months and farming the same bosses over and over, than be dependent on 10 - 40 people to advance.

     

    That's my only issue with endgame.

    I would much rather play D3 than a classical MMO (and I do). I don't miss the persistent world at all .... that adds very little (for me) to the dungeon game.

    Not to mention, now D3 will have infinite random dungeons with infinite leveling and infinitely upgradable items (gems).

     

  • dorugudorugu falkenbergPosts: 166Member Uncommon
    dun do end game mself much i usually do lower lvld stuff 2 get some items i can send to some random lowbie askin thm 2 pay it forward later :)
  • Raxxo82Raxxo82 MalmöPosts: 144Member Uncommon
    I like "grinding"endgame dungeons/raids because... 1. I get to play with other people that enjoys the game as much as I do so that they are willing to invest as much time and effort in the game as I do.
    2. While grinding endgame content my characters skills wont increase as fast, so instead I get to improve and test my own gameskills to get better and faster.
    3. Smooth "runs" 4. Not so smooth "runs" when a group manage to down the last boss from pure persistance.
    5. Completing long quests lines that often includes group content and raidbosses.
    6. Phat lootz!

    image
  • reemireemi granby, QCPosts: 43Member Common

    I'm pretty sure most players never played the same mmorpg games for years. So you won't find a lot of people that love raids/dungeons or pvp endgame. 

    I played WoW from 2004 to 2013, and at the beginning it was just a leveling game. But after a while, you understand the fun really start at last level. When you found friends, when you found a guild, when you have fun raiding and playing with your friends and guild... When you have fun creating events with your friends, when you start doing arena or battleground with your friends... You have fun chilling, talking, exploring, dueling, crafting, trading, farming, achievement, beating records, modding, playing high level alts, questing (Oh yes, because questing with friends is complicated at low level.. because your friends are never the same level as you. At latest level, you never have that problem). 

    At same time, you get better gear, you get better playing your character. Most of the time classes are easy to learn and hard to master. Even if many of you think WoW is the easiest game, I can tell you that after 10 years I'm still learning and improving, and I'm better and better and I have more fun because of that too. 

    Now, for me, leveling is one of the most boring thing in a mmorpg. And I played enough mmorpg to know that I hate leveling now... 

    Some people hate playing or questing at last level only because they are not receiving any XP... ok? but why?

    Leveling is a waste of time, for me leveling is like a training, a tutorial... 

    I only love endgame, I hate leveling .

  • seafirexseafirex gatineau, QCPosts: 357Member Uncommon

    It is easy to know why end game is made this way in mmorpgs. It is because the game is about how you build your characters, how you live in that fantasy world , etc.etc. So basically i am saying it is the leveling process of the character and not the last few dungeons or raids or arenas, etc.. at max level that counts.

    People forget that the game start at level 1. They tend to play them as single player or multiplayer games and not as mmorpgs. The way mmorpgs are done is the way it always have been and will always be. 

    The end game is your gift to have been part of the world and a way to give you incentive to keep playing and show what you have learn in it while leveling up. Nothing more or less, the game does not start at end game. Only fps, and the like starts at endgame, because they play the same way from start to finish but not mmorpgs.

     

    Edit : like previous posters said, some people only love end game, but again it does not say the game is only end game. It only says some prefer certain things over others. It still is about how you level up but it is true that at end game you can accomplish way more because you don't have to worry about getting the next skills or talent, etc. So you can spend your times as the other posters said, crafting, bg's, arenas, RP, learning even more about your class and the others available to that game, etc.... 

  • c0existc0exist Round Rock, TXPosts: 192Member
    Originally posted by reemi

    I'm pretty sure most players never played the same mmorpg games for years. So you won't find a lot of people that love raids/dungeons or pvp endgame. 

    I played WoW from 2004 to 2013, and at the beginning it was just a leveling game. But after a while, you understand that a mmorpg start at last level.  I only love endgame, I hate leveling .

    And this is the mentality that grants us the crappy games we have.  Single player linear crap to max in a free weekend then play the lobby game "wait for the dungeon queue" to open up.  When the term endgame started being a common term used among mmo gamers is when the quality of the genre really diminished. 

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by c0exist
    Originally posted by reemi

    I'm pretty sure most players never played the same mmorpg games for years. So you won't find a lot of people that love raids/dungeons or pvp endgame. 

    I played WoW from 2004 to 2013, and at the beginning it was just a leveling game. But after a while, you understand that a mmorpg start at last level.  I only love endgame, I hate leveling .

    And this is the mentality that grants us the crappy games we have.  Single player linear crap to max in a free weekend then play the lobby game "wait for the dungeon queue" to open up.  When the term endgame started being a common term used among mmo gamers is when the quality of the genre really diminished. 

    wait .. you don't like single player game modes, and you think everyone should have your preference?

    I would say "wait for dungeon queue" is a much better game mode than "wandering around in a world for minutes before finding a dungeon" .. for me, of course.

     

  • reemireemi granby, QCPosts: 43Member Common
    Originally posted by c0exist
    Originally posted by reemi

    I'm pretty sure most players never played the same mmorpg games for years. So you won't find a lot of people that love raids/dungeons or pvp endgame. 

    I played WoW from 2004 to 2013, and at the beginning it was just a leveling game. But after a while, you understand that a mmorpg start at last level.  I only love endgame, I hate leveling .

    And this is the mentality that grants us the crappy games we have.  Single player linear crap to max in a free weekend then play the lobby game "wait for the dungeon queue" to open up.  When the term endgame started being a common term used among mmo gamers is when the quality of the genre really diminished. 

    The problem is, I remember the fun I had when I leveled my first toon in a mmorpg. But I also remember the fun x10 I had when I raided in a mmorpg. 

    For your first experience, leveling can be REALLY fun, after 10-14 years playing mmorpg... no it's not what I enjoyed the most, so yeah, I agree to skip it. 

    After 10-14 years playing mmorpg, you understand we grow up, and you know what happen when we grow up? We lack of time because we have work, house, wife and children... so when your play time is reduce to 20% of your play time 14 years ago, you enjoy that lobby.

    That's why mmorpg like WoW changes, because peoples grow up. Kids are now playing LoL and Minecraft, not World of Warcraft. 

  • ryvendarkryvendark vancouver, BCPosts: 141Member

    I think there was a time when raiding was what the majority wanted to do with their end game. But with the number of vets in the genre that have seen it done it and have the purple armor, it's time as the only real choice of what to do has long past. If games want to keep people around after the levels run out they're going to need to figure out something new. Raiding is not the be all end all thing to do anymore.

     

  • DMKanoDMKano Gamercentral, AKPosts: 8,559Member Uncommon

    Limited endgame (raids, dungeon runs) is only an issue in those games that use this old design.

    There are MMORPGS that do not have such limited endgame, I suggest playing those games instead.

     

  • TankYou88TankYou88 , ALPosts: 310Member

    For me I enjoy Raiding. It tests your wits. You dont go to school and get mad every year when you pass all your classes and then have to take new classes that are more advanced do you? Its the same thing, you are progressing through content, you learn everything about them and take that knowledge with you for the next set of raids. If you lack the knowledge then you fail.

  • TheQuietGamerTheQuietGamer brightonPosts: 317Member
    Originally posted by ryvendark

    I think there was a time when raiding was what the majority wanted to do with their end game. But with the number of vets in the genre that have seen it done it and have the purple armor, it's time as the only real choice of what to do has long past. If games want to keep people around after the levels run out they're going to need to figure out something new. Raiding is not the be all end all thing to do anymore.

     

    I agree, I think the raiding gear grind has probably past its sell by date.  

    Playing GW1 you hit level cap within a few hours but the story, exploration, skill capping and aesthetic gear (plus old fashioned FUN) kept you playing.  

    I am looking forward to a game that perhaps disposes with traditional levels but creates a world that is sufficiently immersive to draw players in without recourse to carrot or stick.  

  • NitthNitth AustraliaPosts: 3,684Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by Torgrim
    Why has this obselete gameplay been so popular,

    Question is a fallacy if the "obsolete gameplay" is popular and current.
    Majority of people like it and pay for it. That's why its current.

    (BTW im not a fan of the model, but that's just how it is).

    image
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  • TheQuietGamerTheQuietGamer brightonPosts: 317Member
    Originally posted by Nitth

     


    Originally posted by Torgrim
    Why has this obselete gameplay been so popular,

     

    Question is a fallacy if it is popular and current.
    Majority of people like it and pay for it. That's why its current.

    (BTW im not a fan of the model, but that's just how it is).

    I would disagree for the following reasons: -

    • I have never seen any figures to support that argument. 
    • The retention levels in most mmo's that offer it suggest otherwise (again I cannot back that up with figures).  
  • PerjurePerjure Col, OHPosts: 199Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by DMKano

    Limited endgame (raids, dungeon runs) is only an issue in those games that use this old design.

    There are MMORPGS that do not have such limited endgame, I suggest playing those games instead.

     

    I agree, however for many years I couldn't find a decent MMO to play that did not use this design, unfortunately. Luckily there are now a few that I enjoy and don't have to worry about "endgame" at all.

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