Originally posted by Ludwik There's only so many hours in the day.
If I only have time to play 1 game, naturally I'm gonna pick the game with multimillion dollar budget over the thousand dollar budget.
Part of the problem is that you can't trust reviews anywhere anymore.
your first sentence makes total sense and I used to think that way.
For reasons that are hard for anyone to understand (I am not suggesting I understand either) the indies are much better
The indies are much better "for you". I play both AAA and indies. Usually AAAs are much better "for me".
Some indies are good interesting games (like Gone Home or van Helsing) but they don't have the entertainment value (to me) compared to a D3, Dishonor, Tomb Raider, or even Sniper Elite 3.
1. of course I mean 'for me'. this is called normal conversation.
2. how about all the people saying 'AAA games are better' dont they also get a bit of your wisdom? or just me.
3. is it at all possible for all of us here at MMORPG to leave behind the whole subjective / its not a fact cleverness behind. It makes us sound like we just passed our first test in law 101, its not clever
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Originally posted by Ludwik There's only so many hours in the day.
If I only have time to play 1 game, naturally I'm gonna pick the game with multimillion dollar budget over the thousand dollar budget.
Part of the problem is that you can't trust reviews anywhere anymore.
your first sentence makes total sense and I used to think that way.
For reasons that are hard for anyone to understand (I am not suggesting I understand either) the indies are much better
The indies are much better "for you". I play both AAA and indies. Usually AAAs are much better "for me".
Some indies are good interesting games (like Gone Home or van Helsing) but they don't have the entertainment value (to me) compared to a D3, Dishonor, Tomb Raider, or even Sniper Elite 3.
1. of course I mean 'for me'. this is called normal conversation.
2. how about all the people saying 'AAA games are better' dont they also get a bit of your wisdom? or just me.
3. is it at all possible for all of us here at MMORPG to leave behind the whole subjective / its not a fact cleverness behind. It makes us sound like we just passed our first test in law 101, its not clever
1) nah .. normal conversation here is "you game is shit, mine is golden" (or replace by FFA-pvp or whatever the dead horse is) ... followed by "that is your preference, most players don't like that" .. and so on and so forth.
2) Why do you care? Obviously they have games to play, and you have games to play? Don't get me wrong, i do agree that some indie games are good (to me) but i think views on indie games are much more varied just because they have lower budgets and the scope is very limited
3) probably not ... lawyering on forums are never going to stop.
triple A's sell consoles period,but I'll play whatever as long as it grabs me and sucks me in i love resogun and many other indies.indies are great when your waiting on that certain big name game or you just wanna kill some time here or there.
But i wouldn't waste my money on a console if all it played was indie games,especially since pc games are dirt cheap and you can find sales all over daily.
I get why he said what he said,but i really dont think he wanted to sound how its coming off.he's just trying to promote the lil guys who do make quality games on smaller budgets.
I won't waste my money on a console ... period. I get most of the AAA games on my gaming PC anyway .. and the few exclusives that i don't have .. i don't miss (ok .. may be Destiny ... but i bet sooner or later there will be a PC version, and I don't buy console just for one game).
Originally posted by Ludwik There's only so many hours in the day.
If I only have time to play 1 game, naturally I'm gonna pick the game with multimillion dollar budget over the thousand dollar budget.
Part of the problem is that you can't trust reviews anywhere anymore.
your first sentence makes total sense and I used to think that way.
For reasons that are hard for anyone to understand (I am not suggesting I understand either) the indies are much better
The indies are much better "for you". I play both AAA and indies. Usually AAAs are much better "for me".
Some indies are good interesting games (like Gone Home or van Helsing) but they don't have the entertainment value (to me) compared to a D3, Dishonor, Tomb Raider, or even Sniper Elite 3.
1. of course I mean 'for me'. this is called normal conversation.
2. how about all the people saying 'AAA games are better' dont they also get a bit of your wisdom? or just me.
3. is it at all possible for all of us here at MMORPG to leave behind the whole subjective / its not a fact cleverness behind. It makes us sound like we just passed our first test in law 101, its not clever
1) nah .. normal conversation here is "you game is shit, mine is golden" (or replace by FFA-pvp or whatever the dead horse is) ... followed by "that is your preference, most players don't like that" .. and so on and so forth.
2) Why do you care? Obviously they have games to play, and you have games to play? Don't get me wrong, i do agree that some indie games are good (to me) but i think views on indie games are much more varied just because they have lower budgets and the scope is very limited
3) probably not ... lawyering on forums are never going to stop.
every single day we here someone trying to be clever and explain to us that nothing is factual and everything is subjective.
It gets really really really boring.
On Facebook I get posts (and make posts) all the time similar to 'its the best food ever!' and nobody has any problem with it. OF COURSE its not the best food ever, its an expression for those who know how to communicate.
On average, AAA games are shit.....TO ME.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
You wanna know why gamers spend more time buying and playing AAA games rather than indie game? I'll tell why...no one wants to work to play games anymore, not even in mmorpgs. Look for a good game....too much work. Accept a game's shortcomings...too much work. With the attitude of today's players, there is no room for more tea in their cups. They know everything, done everything and saw everything there is to be done. They refuse to be impressed or taught..and that my friend is the reason they buy and play AAA games.
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
Originally posted by Ramonski7 You wanna know why gamers spend more time buying and playing AAA games rather than indie game? I'll tell why...no one wants to work to play games anymore, not even in mmorpgs. Look for a good game....too much work. Accept a game's shortcomings...too much work. With the attitude of today's players, there is no room for more tea in their cups. They know everything, done everything and saw everything there is to be done. They refuse to be impressed or taught..and that my friend is the reason they buy and play AAA games.
I dont think that is why. I think its because the large companies dont want to put in the effort and they have the advertising dollars to drowned out the indies to the point where people dont know they exist. This is pre-2012 though, that trend is changing quickly.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Games such as Titanfall, Killzone SF, Infamous SS; they bring with them all these articles, presentations, images, showcases, interviews; the hype is quite real, and lots of people are swept by it.
Meanwhile games such as FTL, Bastion, Xenonauts, Transistor, Orcs Must Die!; they carry very little of it outside of word of mouth between users, and the "mainstream crowd" end up largely ignoring them. What are they constantly hearing more of? The AAA games by far.
So a lot of people end up with this mindset of: "Oh yeah, I think I heard about it. That's cool, I guess, but did you see the new Infamous screenshots? HOLY SHIT!" kind of thing.
tl;dr: I think, when talking about consumers as a whole, it's the hype and attention a lot of the AAA games command that convinces them they're more worth the time. Only a small amount of indies carry the same attention, and they are generally quite successful for it (eg Minecraft).
tl;dr: I think, when talking about consumers as a whole, it's the hype and attention a lot of the AAA games command that convinces them they're more worth the time. Only a small amount of indies carry the same attention, and they are generally quite successful for it (eg Minecraft).
Indies require to have a certain amount of ambition or creativity for it to become popular like Minecraft did. If its not doing something innovative than it at least has to have a good amount of polish to the overall game or some kind of unique visual appearance that makes it stand out. In my opinion when it comes to indie games the next big one is No Mans Sky. I know I keep talking about it but damn its got me excited. Its so awsome Sony decided to present it at their own E3 press conference.
It's mind numbing seeing some on here act like indie games are far superior to AAA. That is simply not true is any case. The majority of indie games are thrown together to make a quick buck. They flood the market with $14.99 piles of garbage. Now in that pile you are bound to find a gem but they are few and far between. Let's just look at a few examples.
Fps= AAA titles are more popular and more successful for example BF, CoD
RPG= AAA titles are more popular and more successful for example ME, DA, ES
MMO=AAA titles are more popular and more successful for example WoW
Sport titles = AAA titles are more popular and more successful for example Madden, Nhl, FIFA
Now these are undeniable facts, sure some may back with just because it's more popular and more successful doesn't mean they are better games. Well actually yes it does when they are played by millions more compared to their indie competition even though their indie competition is usually $30-40 cheaper.
Again indie games are good for gamers, most aren't very good a few surprise us. But nobody will buy a gaming PC, ps4 or xbox one for indie titles. Sorry to break the hearts of the die hard indie supporters.
despite what many think large sales does not equal good game.
In my mind AAA games are garbage by comparision just like TO YOU AAA games are better.
Sales does not mean better. Sales means good advertising.
If sales means better then McDonalds is better than Ruth Chris Stake House.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
It's mind numbing seeing some on here act like indie games are far superior to AAA. That is simply not true is any case. The majority of indie games are thrown together to make a quick buck. They flood the market with $14.99 piles of garbage. Now in that pile you are bound to find a gem but they are few and far between. Let's just look at a few examples.
Fps= AAA titles are more popular and more successful for example BF, CoD
RPG= AAA titles are more popular and more successful for example ME, DA, ES
MMO=AAA titles are more popular and more successful for example WoW
Sport titles = AAA titles are more popular and more successful for example Madden, Nhl, FIFA
Now these are undeniable facts, sure some may back with just because it's more popular and more successful doesn't mean they are better games. Well actually yes it does when they are played by millions more compared to their indie competition even though their indie competition is usually $30-40 cheaper.
Again indie games are good for gamers, most aren't very good a few surprise us. But nobody will buy a gaming PC, ps4 or xbox one for indie titles. Sorry to break the hearts of the die hard indie supporters.
despite what many think large sales does not equal good game.
In my mind AAA games are garbage by comparision just like TO YOU AAA games are better.
Sales does not mean better. Sales means good advertising.
If sales means better then McDonalds is better than Ruth Chris Stake House.
I knew someone would throw the old and cliche 'Mcdonald' comparison in argument.
However, Mcdonald is popular because it is cheaper and is readily available everywhere. Can you say the same about gaming? it is certainly not cheaper.
Yes advertisement matters but advertisement only goes as far as making you buy the product...liking or disliking that product is not dependent upon the advertisement.
Take example of WOW or COD franchise. Advertisement will make you buy the product for sure but if players keep coming back to it for more that means game is actually good.
So yes my friend.... more sales does mean better.
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.' -Jesse Schell
"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid." -Luke McKinney
It's mind numbing seeing some on here act like indie games are far superior to AAA. That is simply not true is any case. The majority of indie games are thrown together to make a quick buck. They flood the market with $14.99 piles of garbage. Now in that pile you are bound to find a gem but they are few and far between. Let's just look at a few examples.
Fps= AAA titles are more popular and more successful for example BF, CoD
RPG= AAA titles are more popular and more successful for example ME, DA, ES
MMO=AAA titles are more popular and more successful for example WoW
Sport titles = AAA titles are more popular and more successful for example Madden, Nhl, FIFA
Now these are undeniable facts, sure some may back with just because it's more popular and more successful doesn't mean they are better games. Well actually yes it does when they are played by millions more compared to their indie competition even though their indie competition is usually $30-40 cheaper.
Again indie games are good for gamers, most aren't very good a few surprise us. But nobody will buy a gaming PC, ps4 or xbox one for indie titles. Sorry to break the hearts of the die hard indie supporters.
despite what many think large sales does not equal good game.
In my mind AAA games are garbage by comparision just like TO YOU AAA games are better.
Sales does not mean better. Sales means good advertising.
If sales means better then McDonalds is better than Ruth Chris Stake House.
Oh geez restaurant analogy? Really ? That horrible analogy doesn't deserve a response. If you would like to discuss it please come back with more than a really poor analogy. Otherwise we will leave it at you have nothing to rebuke my facts.
Again I'm not attacking indies, just making the factual point nobody will buy a gaming PC, ps4 or xbox one because of indie games. And in every aspect of gaming the AAA titles win out easily over indies...sorry if this is a sore subject for you.
1. I am insulted by this line of logic. AAA are better because they sale more. Anyone liking indies is just an opinion not a fact.
2. sales DOES NOT EQUAL QUALITY. it never has in any other industry on the planet it DOES NOT WORK THAT WAY
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Ok in my video game experience playing and in forums when a player or poster gets emotionally attached or has some personal involvement on the topic or video game and discredits all the facts laid out it's pointless to continue a conversation.
So I will leave you with this and until you want to deal with facts and not thinking your opinion equals facts please just pass on my post thanks...
The line of thinking is not just about sales I understand you have blinders on but I have multiple examples of how AAA titles control all aspects of video games. If it was just one game sure your blinders might work but when it's multiple games in every single aspect it's more than just sales sorry...
1. Some people here seem to think that AAA firms spend more money on advertising then they do on development because they are bored and having nothing else to do. They do not stop to think that maybe...just maybe...advertising affects sales?
2. My issue is this. Anytime I say 'indies are better' I get slapped and told its my opinion. Anytime someone says 'AAA are better' they consider it fact and not an opnion. Only a genetically destined for the grave human would not be insulted by that.
sales do not equal quality and whoever desided that is the forumla is simply wrong.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Ok in my video game experience playing and in forums when a player or poster gets emotionally attached or has some personal involvement on the topic or video game and discredits all the facts laid out it's pointless to continue a conversation.
So I will leave you with this and until you want to deal with facts and not thinking your opinion equals facts please just pass on my post thanks...
The line of thinking is not just about sales I understand you have blinders on but I have multiple examples of how AAA titles control all aspects of video games. If it was just one game sure your blinders might work but when it's multiple games in every single aspect it's more than just sales sorry...
1. Some people here seem to think that AAA firms spend more money on advertising then they do on development because they are bored and having nothing else to do. They do not stop to think that maybe...just maybe...advertising affects sales?
2. My issue is this. Anytime I say 'indies are better' I get slapped and told its my opinion. Anytime someone says 'AAA are better' they consider it fact and not an opnion. Only a genetically destined for the grave human would not be insulted by that.
sales do not equal quality and whoever desided that is the forumla is simply wrong.
Ok I came to this site for the WoD beta giveaway. You know the most successful mmo of all time that apparently is a piss poor non-indie quality game. I've wasted enough time dealing with a person who won't accept facts, replied with horrible analogies, and has blinders and an emotional attachment getting in way of a constructive conversation. I really hope your flawed way of thinking is in the minority on this site otherwise it will be clear why more gamers stay away from it.
A little tip instead of going all emotional and making this personal all you had to do is list some games that were better than the games I listed in the categories. The fact you went with a horrible mcd analogy and got all insulted proves you have nothing to stand on against the facts except your opinion which gets you nowhere when it's against facts.
leadings sales does not equal quality PEROID.
you act as if advertising has nothing whatsoever to do with it.
You are horribly wrong and I might add missing out but on that point I couldnt care less.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Ok in my video game experience playing and in forums when a player or poster gets emotionally attached or has some personal involvement on the topic or video game and discredits all the facts laid out it's pointless to continue a conversation.
So I will leave you with this and until you want to deal with facts and not thinking your opinion equals facts please just pass on my post thanks...
The line of thinking is not just about sales I understand you have blinders on but I have multiple examples of how AAA titles control all aspects of video games. If it was just one game sure your blinders might work but when it's multiple games in every single aspect it's more than just sales sorry...
1. Some people here seem to think that AAA firms spend more money on advertising then they do on development because they are bored and having nothing else to do. They do not stop to think that maybe...just maybe...advertising affects sales?
2. My issue is this. Anytime I say 'indies are better' I get slapped and told its my opinion. Anytime someone says 'AAA are better' they consider it fact and not an opnion. Only a genetically destined for the grave human would not be insulted by that.
sales do not equal quality and whoever desided that is the forumla is simply wrong.
Ok I came to this site for the WoD beta giveaway. You know the most successful mmo of all time that apparently is a piss poor non-indie quality game. I've wasted enough time dealing with a person who won't accept facts, replied with horrible analogies, and has blinders and an emotional attachment getting in way of a constructive conversation. I really hope your flawed way of thinking is in the minority on this site otherwise it will be clear why more gamers stay away from it.
A little tip instead of going all emotional and making this personal all you had to do is list some games that were better than the games I listed in the categories. The fact you went with a horrible mcd analogy and got all insulted proves you have nothing to stand on against the facts except your opinion which gets you nowhere when it's against facts.
leadings sales does not equal quality PEROID.
you act as if advertising has nothing whatsoever to do with it.
You are horribly wrong and I might add missing out but on that point I couldnt care less.
Missing out? On what? Did you not read my first post? I said some are gems but most are garbage. Here is an analogy for you...
Worst team in any pro sports(quality of product) has the lowest ticket price and also SELLS the fewest seats per game.
Best team in any pro sport (quality of product) has the higher ticket price and SELLS the most seats per game.
So anytime you feel like having a real discussion head back up to my post you relied to without dealing with the facts I put out. In each category please post what indie games are better than the ones I posted...
again...read carefully
advertising plays a MAJOR role in sales...a MAJOR role.
according to your logic bacteria is better than humans because there are more of them.
listen. I know you are not the person who likes to bite my head off telling me that what I consider better is subjective but it really pisses me off to no end when people try to suggest that 'better' is subject ONLY when other people disagree with them.
Fact is, better is subjective for ALL people, not just me.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
It's mind numbing seeing some on here act like indie games are far superior to AAA. That is simply not true is any case. The majority of indie games are thrown together to make a quick buck. They flood the market with $14.99 piles of garbage. Now in that pile you are bound to find a gem but they are few and far between. Let's just look at a few examples.
Fps= AAA titles are more popular and more successful for example BF, CoD
RPG= AAA titles are more popular and more successful for example ME, DA, ES
MMO=AAA titles are more popular and more successful for example WoW
Sport titles = AAA titles are more popular and more successful for example Madden, Nhl, FIFA
Now these are undeniable facts, sure some may back with just because it's more popular and more successful doesn't mean they are better games. Well actually yes it does when they are played by millions more compared to their indie competition even though their indie competition is usually $30-40 cheaper.
Again indie games are good for gamers, most aren't very good a few surprise us. But nobody will buy a gaming PC, ps4 or xbox one for indie titles. Sorry to break the hearts of the die hard indie supporters.
despite what many think large sales does not equal good game.
In my mind AAA games are garbage by comparision just like TO YOU AAA games are better.
Sales does not mean better. Sales means good advertising.
If sales means better then McDonalds is better than Ruth Chris Stake House.
I found this really funny, because I'd rather eat McDonalds than pay far out the ass for a steak I can make better myself at my house. And I hate McDonalds.
Don't let me stop you two though, this conversation is interesting.
Currently Playing: ESO and FFXIV Have played: You name it If you mention rose tinted glasses, you better be referring to Mitch Hedberg.
Well I have no clue what or where your bacteria comment came from but wow that is...well I have no words for it. Well instead of filling up this post with back and forth I'm going end my interaction with you here. It's pointless and pretty clear after the bacteria comments you have really started to stretch. Again I got no issues with indie games but facts are facts and based on all the facts that video games are measured by indie games don't hold a candle to AAA games sorry.
You are right though if you think indies are better nothing wrong with that but that doesn't change the metrics that video games are judged by always leans toward AAAs. People buy more of them, people buy specific gaming pcs for them, people buy specific consoles for them, people wait for hours in line for them, people join sites to get a beta key for them ect ect.
you are flat out wrong I am sorry.
Its very simple, sales do not equal quality....peroid. never has and never will and ADVERTISING makes a HUGE difference. If you have never heard of the game how can you buy it?
anyway, we are at an impass.
You think sales = quality and I am saying you are wrong and neither one of us are going to move from that place. so its time for you and I to go swim in the soup we swim in. Have fun I have a boat to craft.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Originally posted by SEANMCAD Fact is, better is subjective for ALL people, not just me.
...and sales provides a measure how people value that specific game(s), thus sales = more pople like that game, and yes, it means that game is better as more pople think it is better...
Fact is, better is subjective for ALL people, not just me.
...and sales provides a measure how people value that specific game(s), thus sales = more pople like that game, and yes, it means that game is better as more pople think it is better...
without counting the affects of advertising and access its a bit mute
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
tl;dr: I think, when talking about consumers as a whole, it's the hype and attention a lot of the AAA games command that convinces them they're more worth the time. Only a small amount of indies carry the same attention, and they are generally quite successful for it (eg Minecraft).
Indies require to have a certain amount of ambition or creativity for it to become popular like Minecraft did. If its not doing something innovative than it at least has to have a good amount of polish to the overall game or some kind of unique visual appearance that makes it stand out. In my opinion when it comes to indie games the next big one is No Mans Sky. I know I keep talking about it but damn its got me excited. Its so awsome Sony decided to present it at their own E3 press conference.
It helps, but it's not just that. You should try Orcs Must Die! 2 when you're able, as it has everything you described. Extremely responsive controls, smooth animations, good voice acting with decent bit of humor, an identifiable and clean art style, and is one of the best games that tied together third-person action with tower defense elements, and brought a great amount of depth in customization and planning in regards to them.
But it's unlikely anyone really talked about it. The same does apply to others most probably skipped.
I won't really disagree with the sentiment that many indie games are... crude, to put it nicely, but having an excellent amount of polish does not guarantee people ever hearing about them.
And AAA games that are practically straight broken at core levels (RE Raccoon City, Brink) garner far more attention than any of the most well polished indies. So it's more than just the quality of individual titles, really.
Im glad i bought a 600 dollar console to play a brand new collection of super nintendo style side scrollers.
That is next gen right?
Quotations Those Who make peaceful resolutions impossible, make violent resolutions inevitable. John F. Kennedy
Life... is the shit that happens while you wait for moments that never come - Lester Freeman
Lie to no one. If there 's somebody close to you, you'll ruin it with a lie. If they're a stranger, who the fuck are they you gotta lie to them? - Willy Nelson
Comments
1. of course I mean 'for me'. this is called normal conversation.
2. how about all the people saying 'AAA games are better' dont they also get a bit of your wisdom? or just me.
3. is it at all possible for all of us here at MMORPG to leave behind the whole subjective / its not a fact cleverness behind. It makes us sound like we just passed our first test in law 101, its not clever
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
1) nah .. normal conversation here is "you game is shit, mine is golden" (or replace by FFA-pvp or whatever the dead horse is) ... followed by "that is your preference, most players don't like that" .. and so on and so forth.
2) Why do you care? Obviously they have games to play, and you have games to play? Don't get me wrong, i do agree that some indie games are good (to me) but i think views on indie games are much more varied just because they have lower budgets and the scope is very limited
3) probably not ... lawyering on forums are never going to stop.
I won't waste my money on a console ... period. I get most of the AAA games on my gaming PC anyway .. and the few exclusives that i don't have .. i don't miss (ok .. may be Destiny ... but i bet sooner or later there will be a PC version, and I don't buy console just for one game).
every single day we here someone trying to be clever and explain to us that nothing is factual and everything is subjective.
It gets really really really boring.
On Facebook I get posts (and make posts) all the time similar to 'its the best food ever!' and nobody has any problem with it. OF COURSE its not the best food ever, its an expression for those who know how to communicate.
On average, AAA games are shit.....TO ME.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
I dont think that is why. I think its because the large companies dont want to put in the effort and they have the advertising dollars to drowned out the indies to the point where people dont know they exist. This is pre-2012 though, that trend is changing quickly.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
Maybe its more like when people think big budget game they set their expectations too high, so they end up let down.
And when they go into an indie game with no or very little expectations they find that fun factor.
well I cant speak for all indie lovers but I can speak to what grabs me about indies and the thing is it can be quantified.
features (I am sure someone will want to debate what a 'feature is) but the bottom line is
The amount of things I can do in the indies games I play is radically more than what I can do in a AAA game. So it is measurable.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
Games such as Titanfall, Killzone SF, Infamous SS; they bring with them all these articles, presentations, images, showcases, interviews; the hype is quite real, and lots of people are swept by it.
Meanwhile games such as FTL, Bastion, Xenonauts, Transistor, Orcs Must Die!; they carry very little of it outside of word of mouth between users, and the "mainstream crowd" end up largely ignoring them. What are they constantly hearing more of? The AAA games by far.
So a lot of people end up with this mindset of: "Oh yeah, I think I heard about it. That's cool, I guess, but did you see the new Infamous screenshots? HOLY SHIT!" kind of thing.
tl;dr: I think, when talking about consumers as a whole, it's the hype and attention a lot of the AAA games command that convinces them they're more worth the time. Only a small amount of indies carry the same attention, and they are generally quite successful for it (eg Minecraft).
Indies require to have a certain amount of ambition or creativity for it to become popular like Minecraft did. If its not doing something innovative than it at least has to have a good amount of polish to the overall game or some kind of unique visual appearance that makes it stand out. In my opinion when it comes to indie games the next big one is No Mans Sky. I know I keep talking about it but damn its got me excited. Its so awsome Sony decided to present it at their own E3 press conference.
i love a lot of indie games but this is how i feel.
despite what many think large sales does not equal good game.
In my mind AAA games are garbage by comparision just like TO YOU AAA games are better.
Sales does not mean better. Sales means good advertising.
If sales means better then McDonalds is better than Ruth Chris Stake House.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
I knew someone would throw the old and cliche 'Mcdonald' comparison in argument.
However, Mcdonald is popular because it is cheaper and is readily available everywhere. Can you say the same about gaming? it is certainly not cheaper.
Yes advertisement matters but advertisement only goes as far as making you buy the product...liking or disliking that product is not dependent upon the advertisement.
Take example of WOW or COD franchise. Advertisement will make you buy the product for sure but if players keep coming back to it for more that means game is actually good.
So yes my friend.... more sales does mean better.
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.'
-Jesse Schell
"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid."
-Luke McKinney
1. I am insulted by this line of logic. AAA are better because they sale more. Anyone liking indies is just an opinion not a fact.
2. sales DOES NOT EQUAL QUALITY. it never has in any other industry on the planet it DOES NOT WORK THAT WAY
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
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1. Some people here seem to think that AAA firms spend more money on advertising then they do on development because they are bored and having nothing else to do. They do not stop to think that maybe...just maybe...advertising affects sales?
2. My issue is this. Anytime I say 'indies are better' I get slapped and told its my opinion. Anytime someone says 'AAA are better' they consider it fact and not an opnion. Only a genetically destined for the grave human would not be insulted by that.
sales do not equal quality and whoever desided that is the forumla is simply wrong.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
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leadings sales does not equal quality PEROID.
you act as if advertising has nothing whatsoever to do with it.
You are horribly wrong and I might add missing out but on that point I couldnt care less.
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again...read carefully
advertising plays a MAJOR role in sales...a MAJOR role.
according to your logic bacteria is better than humans because there are more of them.
listen. I know you are not the person who likes to bite my head off telling me that what I consider better is subjective but it really pisses me off to no end when people try to suggest that 'better' is subject ONLY when other people disagree with them.
Fact is, better is subjective for ALL people, not just me.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
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I found this really funny, because I'd rather eat McDonalds than pay far out the ass for a steak I can make better myself at my house. And I hate McDonalds.
Don't let me stop you two though, this conversation is interesting.
Currently Playing: ESO and FFXIV
Have played: You name it
If you mention rose tinted glasses, you better be referring to Mitch Hedberg.
you are flat out wrong I am sorry.
Its very simple, sales do not equal quality....peroid. never has and never will and ADVERTISING makes a HUGE difference. If you have never heard of the game how can you buy it?
anyway, we are at an impass.
You think sales = quality and I am saying you are wrong and neither one of us are going to move from that place. so its time for you and I to go swim in the soup we swim in. Have fun I have a boat to craft.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
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...and sales provides a measure how people value that specific game(s), thus sales = more pople like that game, and yes, it means that game is better as more pople think it is better...
without counting the affects of advertising and access its a bit mute
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
It helps, but it's not just that. You should try Orcs Must Die! 2 when you're able, as it has everything you described. Extremely responsive controls, smooth animations, good voice acting with decent bit of humor, an identifiable and clean art style, and is one of the best games that tied together third-person action with tower defense elements, and brought a great amount of depth in customization and planning in regards to them.
But it's unlikely anyone really talked about it. The same does apply to others most probably skipped.
I won't really disagree with the sentiment that many indie games are... crude, to put it nicely, but having an excellent amount of polish does not guarantee people ever hearing about them.
And AAA games that are practically straight broken at core levels (RE Raccoon City, Brink) garner far more attention than any of the most well polished indies. So it's more than just the quality of individual titles, really.
Advertising and accessibility is as elemental,indistinguishable, part of the product as is gameplay. You are selling the whole package.
Im glad i bought a 600 dollar console to play a brand new collection of super nintendo style side scrollers.
That is next gen right?
Quotations Those Who make peaceful resolutions impossible, make violent resolutions inevitable. John F. Kennedy
Life... is the shit that happens while you wait for moments that never come - Lester Freeman
Lie to no one. If there 's somebody close to you, you'll ruin it with a lie. If they're a stranger, who the fuck are they you gotta lie to them? - Willy Nelson