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Is it time for Zen to reboot this game?

battlesambattlesam Lantzville, BCPosts: 12Member
Here's my 2c from a long time DAoC, WoW, WAR player.

I never believed the bugs or the bots were that serious. Those problems are easily fixable. The bigger problem, the one which caused the mass exodus is a design issue, imo.

In a nutshell the population spreads out so thinly by Vet time that the impetus for playing disappears. Certainly the “solo” aspect to the game compounds that problem, but in the world of MMO’s low population is king…of death. Maybe the game world in ESO and Cyrodill in particular is too big.

It seems to me the game was originally built with Cyrodill functioning as the main end game. (Certainly the itemization in the game leads one to that conclusion.) The decision to access the other realms and force Vet levels on everyone changed the nature of the game from pvp to pve. The pve was thus tacked on to a pvp game. (At least ESO can claim that as a first, dubious as it is).

I think Vet levels put an unexpected pve barrier between level 50 and Cyrodill effectively reducing the subscription population. So, is character progression necessary in the secondary realms? Can’t the other factions be a place of slightly harder dungeons or something?

The second thing on my mind is the lack of connections between places in the game world. WOW had linear progression zone by zone crap, but at least they had two continents which you continuously visited, and the major cities, Orgrimmar in my case, was a hub. Who the *** goes to Mournhold? But more importantly this zone by zone levelling is passé. Why can’t you do some level 1-20 quests in all the zones and then go back and forth? That would have made the most sense especially in a game like ESO. For example as a level 15 EP main story quest you travel to Auridon to assassinate someone.

I do believe this is the nicest game world I’ve seen and maybe, just maybe, the trend for these large companies to spend a ton of money on MMORPG game development only to see an epic fail is changing. Maybe it’s build it and then after 4-5 months close, rework, and reboot.

Cheers
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Comments

  • DestaiDestai Detroit, MIPosts: 574Member
    No, it's time for Bethesda to make an Elder Scrolls 6 that's all of Tamriel with a multiplayer mode. That's what many people want - Skyrim/Oblivion/etc. with friends, not a DAOC style game. 
  • doragon86doragon86 Boston, MAPosts: 589Member
    Originally posted by Destai
    No, it's time for Bethesda to make an Elder Scrolls 6 that's all of Tamriel with a multiplayer mode. That's what many people want - Skyrim/Oblivion/etc. with friends, not a DAOC style game. 

    I would've much preferred this. Don't forget to throw in mod support. 

    "For the Angel of Death spread his wings on the blast,
    And breathed in the face of the foe as he passed:
    And the eyes of the sleepers waxed deadly and chill,
    And their hearts but once heaved, and for ever grew still!"
    ~Lord George Gordon Byron

  • flizzerflizzer Manchester, NHPosts: 1,550Member Uncommon
    I really hope Bethesda makes another Elder Scrolls game.  I know they are not involved in ESO, but at this point it is unclear if we ever will see another Elder Scrolls title.
  • ReizlaReizla AlkmaarPosts: 3,294Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by battlesam
    Here's my 2c from a long time DAoC, WoW, WAR player.
     

    Stopped reading there...

    ESO is totally different than those 3 you name. ESO was build to be a PvE MMO all around questing, while the ones you played are made with PvP in mind.

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  • OminousDawnOminousDawn New York, NYPosts: 75Member
    Originally posted by Reizla
    Originally posted by battlesam
    Here's my 2c from a long time DAoC, WoW, WAR player.
     

    Stopped reading there...

    ESO is totally different than those 3 you name. ESO was build to be a PvE MMO all around questing, while the ones you played are made with PvP in mind.

     

    Judging by his post, he clearly believes its the other way around.

    These PvP'ers will be the death of MMORPG's.  They don't understand them, and as such, do nothing but complain about them.

    It's so bad, I had to make a sig about it.

    The game you are looking for requiring no PvE completion and where you can just jump in and start mindlessly shooting at people is that way - >>>>

    ... it's called an FPS.

    Quit ruining the MMORPG genre with your constant "PvE grind" whines.

  • SaluteSalute AthensPosts: 763Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Destai
    No, it's time for Bethesda to make an Elder Scrolls 6 that's all of Tamriel with a multiplayer mode. That's what many people want - Skyrim/Oblivion/etc. with friends, not a DAOC style game. 

    +1

    All Time Favorites: EQ1, WoW, EvE, GW1
    Playing Now: WS, ESO, GW2

  • BoneserinoBoneserino London, ONPosts: 1,618Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by OminousDawn
    Originally posted by Reizla
    Originally posted by battlesam
    Here's my 2c from a long time DAoC, WoW, WAR player.
     

    Stopped reading there...

    ESO is totally different than those 3 you name. ESO was build to be a PvE MMO all around questing, while the ones you played are made with PvP in mind.

     

    Judging by his post, he clearly believes its the other way around.

    These PvP'ers will be the death of MMORPG's.  They don't understand them, and as such, do nothing but complain about them.

    It's so bad, I had to make a sig about it.

    Well that is a flame post if I have ever seen one, but I totally agree.

     

    To them it is all about killing the other guy and not much else matters.

    FFA Nonconsentual Full Loot PvP ...You know you want it!!

  • DistopiaDistopia Baltimore, MDPosts: 16,900Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by flizzer
    I really hope Bethesda makes another Elder Scrolls game.  I know they are not involved in ESO, but at this point it is unclear if we ever will see another Elder Scrolls title.

    Why would we not see a continuation of a franchise that has garnered more fame from each release to the next? Skyrim sold really well, open world gaming is bigger than ever in terms of AAA efforts, why would we not see another TES game? It is Bethesda's chief property...  it's bigger now than it ever was.

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

    It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

  • ArglebargleArglebargle Austin, TXPosts: 1,413Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Distopia
    Originally posted by flizzer
    I really hope Bethesda makes another Elder Scrolls game.  I know they are not involved in ESO, but at this point it is unclear if we ever will see another Elder Scrolls title.

    Why would we not see a continuation of a franchise that has garnered more fame from each release to the next? Skyrim sold really well, open world gaming is bigger than ever in terms of AAA efforts, why would we not see another TES game? It is Bethesda's chief property...

    They are focused on a new Fallout right now, but I am sure a small team is prepping for the next TES game to follow.

    If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.

  • DistopiaDistopia Baltimore, MDPosts: 16,900Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Arglebargle
    Originally posted by Distopia
    Originally posted by flizzer
    I really hope Bethesda makes another Elder Scrolls game.  I know they are not involved in ESO, but at this point it is unclear if we ever will see another Elder Scrolls title.

    Why would we not see a continuation of a franchise that has garnered more fame from each release to the next? Skyrim sold really well, open world gaming is bigger than ever in terms of AAA efforts, why would we not see another TES game? It is Bethesda's chief property...

    They are focused on a new Fallout right now, but I am sure a small team is prepping for the next TES game to follow.

    They made Skyrim while they made Fallout 3 if I recall correctly, at least there is overlap in said games development cycle. With the property as well as company being bigger than ever I wouldn't be surprised if they've seen some expansion as far as team members go.  I agree though I wouldn't expect a NEW TES until a good while after FO4 is finished. My guess is they use Skyrim's tech for FO and develop new tech beside it to use for a new TES. They'll have to compete with the WItcher 3 so I expect them to go even bigger in terms of tech and mechanics..

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

    It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

  • rodingorodingo Posts: 2,346Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Destai
    No, it's time for Bethesda to make an Elder Scrolls 6 that's all of Tamriel with a multiplayer mode. That's what many people want - Skyrim/Oblivion/etc. with friends, not a DAOC style game. 

    This^

    I've been itching to play a new Elder Scrolls game! image   Even though I could care less, I'm sure they will  tack on multiplayer.   I'm one of those that don't need to have friends play with me in Elder Scrolls.  When i want to play with friends I join them in an MMO.  For sandbox adventuring I play Elder Scrolls.

    "If I offended you, you needed it" -Corey Taylor

  • versulasversulas None of your damn business, WAPosts: 286Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Destai
    No, it's time for Bethesda to make an Elder Scrolls 6 that's all of Tamriel with a multiplayer mode. That's what many people want - Skyrim/Oblivion/etc. with friends, not a DAOC style game. 

    It'll come... and when #6 releases we'll whine and moan about when #7 is going to release and so on down the line--while any attempts made by them to branch out and capture a new consumer base they don't already decidedly own will be met with scorn and rage about how they're not catering to us fast enough. 

    That's just how gamers are, we won't ever be satisfied, but I can't fault them for making the effort to invest in a side project that's ongoing and different, even if I prefer a bit more sand to play with.

  • NellusNellus Groton, CTPosts: 247Member

    Everyone seems to jump the gun around here. Even if you hate ESO, and think it is the worst MMO ever made - neither of which are true for me - wouldn't you want them to release the rest of their core content first? It would be better for them to release Thieves Guild and Dark Brotherhood into the game you hate, so they can see what kind of tweaks they need to make, than to just shut it down now and retool. Citing poor design of the overall concept should mean you have little confidence in them doing things right the first time with those two big features. 

    Of course that would be assuming there was a chance ZOS was considering rebooting the game in the first place - which I don't think is true, despite my disappointment with the game.

    - Nellus

  • d_20d_20 AmsterdamPosts: 756Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by battlesam
    Here's my 2c from a long time DAoC, WoW, WAR player.

    I never believed the bugs or the bots were that serious. Those problems are easily fixable. The bigger problem, the one which caused the mass exodus is a design issue, imo.


     

    I agree.

    http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/411967/page/1

     

    image
  • bcbullybcbully Westland, MIPosts: 8,260Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Reizla
    Originally posted by battlesam
    Here's my 2c from a long time DAoC, WoW, WAR player.
     

    Stopped reading there...

    ESO is totally different than those 3 you name. ESO was build to be a PvE MMO all around questing, while the ones you played are made with PvP in mind.

    The things I read on these forums become stranger and stranger...

     

    If anything ESO is PvP game with PvE tacked on. I think that's where a lot of the hate comes from. 1/3 of the Entire game world is Cyrodiil, larger than any of the pve areas.

  • lunatiquezlunatiquez San Fransisco, CAPosts: 381Member
    Elder Scrolls Online : The Phases Reborn
  • reeereeereeereee Posts: 1,197Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by bcbully
    Originally posted by Reizla
    Originally posted by battlesam
    Here's my 2c from a long time DAoC, WoW, WAR player.
     

    Stopped reading there...

    ESO is totally different than those 3 you name. ESO was build to be a PvE MMO all around questing, while the ones you played are made with PvP in mind.

    The things I read on these forums become stranger and stranger...

     

    If anything ESO is PvP game with PvE tacked on. I think that's where a lot of the hate comes from. 1/3 of the Entire game world is Cyrodiil, larger than any of the pve areas.

    They just overall did a much better job with the PvP than the PvE in this game.  The PvP zone is a huge map with many possibilities to explore while the PvE maps feature a stale linear quest grind. 

     

    While it appears like they spent the vast majority of their budget on PvE; the PvP was designed and planned so much better than the PvE that it clearly outshines the PvE.

  • artemisentr4artemisentr4 fresno, CAPosts: 1,431Member Uncommon

    The simple fix would be to just increase the XP gain in Cyrodiil. So there would be no need to do anything else past level 10 for those who want to just PvP. It wouldn't hurt the PvE side because PvP only players just want to skip it anyway.

     

    There won't be a reboot unless they give up on the console release, and that won't be happening. So the game should have the Thieves guild/ Dark Brotherhood, the Justice system and hopefully the Imperial City PvP/PvE dungeon in Cyrodill by the time the console game is released. Or at least it should be on the radar for soon after. A change in XP for PvP and PvE dungeons would be a plus as well.

     

    There are a lot of ways to "reboot" the game without a shutdown. And I don't mean F2P.

    “How many people long for that "past, simpler, and better world," I wonder, without ever recognizing the truth that perhaps it was they who were simpler and better, and not the world about them?”
    R.A.Salvatore

  • ScotScot UKPosts: 5,754Member Uncommon

    Reboot?

    Can you tell us any other game that rebooted? FF did it that took them about what two years? That is the only MMO I think that has every rebooted so suggesting any MMO reboots is on a hiding to nothing.

    I do agree with some of the OPs points, but feel he is exaggerating their significance. The fact the entire game is not continuous is not that big an issue. The issue about moving from PvE to PvP is more problematic. PvP is too delayed but apart from that I think it works well as gameplay.

  • ArglebargleArglebargle Austin, TXPosts: 1,413Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Distopia
    Originally posted by Arglebargle
    Originally posted by Distopia
    Originally posted by flizzer
    I really hope Bethesda makes another Elder Scrolls game.  I know they are not involved in ESO, but at this point it is unclear if we ever will see another Elder Scrolls title.

    Why would we not see a continuation of a franchise that has garnered more fame from each release to the next? Skyrim sold really well, open world gaming is bigger than ever in terms of AAA efforts, why would we not see another TES game? It is Bethesda's chief property...

    They are focused on a new Fallout right now, but I am sure a small team is prepping for the next TES game to follow.

    They made Skyrim while they made Fallout 3 if I recall correctly, at least there is overlap in said games development cycle. With the property as well as company being bigger than ever I wouldn't be surprised if they've seen some expansion as far as team members go.  I agree though I wouldn't expect a NEW TES until a good while after FO4 is finished. My guess is they use Skyrim's tech for FO and develop new tech beside it to use for a new TES. They'll have to compete with the WItcher 3 so I expect them to go even bigger in terms of tech and mechanics..

    That sounds real accurate.   Will be interesting to see whether they can add Co-op to it (either F4 or TES), as that's what tons of fans would prefer.

    If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.

  • fivorothfivoroth LondonPosts: 3,652Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by flizzer
    I really hope Bethesda makes another Elder Scrolls game.  I know they are not involved in ESO, but at this point it is unclear if we ever will see another Elder Scrolls title.

    What? There will be TES 6 and that is clear. They are not stopping with their most popular franchise to fuel just one MMO. MMOs are niche games. The Elder Scrolls series games are not. ESO was not even made by the same developer as TES 1-5. 

    What is really sad though is that Blizzard on the other hand decided to end one of the best game series. Warcraft IV will be an instant hit if it was ever to be released.

    Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.

  • DMKanoDMKano Gamercentral, AKPosts: 8,496Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by inemosz
    Elder Scrolls Online : The Phases Reborn

    My personal favorite is

    Elder Staves Online: Light Armor for all

    (not sure if this changed but my entire guild was light armor/destro staff at launch regardless of build/class)

     

  • IselinIselin Vancouver, BCPosts: 5,606Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by battlesam



    It seems to me the game was originally built with Cyrodill functioning as the main end game. (Certainly the itemization in the game leads one to that conclusion.) The decision to access the other realms and force Vet levels on everyone changed the nature of the game from pvp to pve. The pve was thus tacked on to a pvp game. (At least ESO can claim that as a first, dubious as it is).

     

    True.

     

    Anyone who followed the development of the game over the past couple of years knows this. The VR levels in particular were a stop-gap measure to provide alternate end-game PVE play while they developed true post-50 content. And it feels tacked on.

     

    They should have spent more time developing the one feature that would have made the game unique: the gigantic PVP/PVE dungeon in the middle of Cyrodiil -- the Imperial City -  similar to DAOC's Darkness Falls which we all know is coming.

     

    That, in addition to 3 realm RVR, was the other outstanding DAOC feature. Once the decision was made to make a TES MMO based on DAOC game play, they should have focused more resources on that and included it at launch.

     

    The "purist" TES fans who have complained about the PVP focus of ESO might not have liked it much. But then again they don't like it much as it is despite all of ZOS' efforts to change focus midstream to cater to that PVE-only crowd.

     

    As they continue to say in this thread, what they wanted all along was Skyrim+ co-op and nothing short of that would have satisfied them. But that's a different game altogether that they never set-out to make. They should have just said that's not the game they were making, taken their lumps and carried on. Their decision to throw them a bone with more PVE content didn't help anything and just confused the game's focus..

  • DoogiehowserDoogiehowser ParisPosts: 1,873Member
    Just turn into P2P/F2P hybrid model. No need to reboot.

    "The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.'
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    image

  • SovrathSovrath Boston Area, MAPosts: 18,452Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by OminousDawn
    Originally posted by Reizla
    Originally posted by battlesam
    Here's my 2c from a long time DAoC, WoW, WAR player.
     

    Stopped reading there...

    ESO is totally different than those 3 you name. ESO was build to be a PvE MMO all around questing, while the ones you played are made with PvP in mind.

     

    Judging by his post, he clearly believes its the other way around.

    These PvP'ers will be the death of MMORPG's.  They don't understand them, and as such, do nothing but complain about them.

    It's so bad, I had to make a sig about it.

    I don't think pvp players will be the death of mmo's.

    Having said that "I" would say what was wrong with the OP's post (in my opinion) is this:

    Here's my 2c from a long time DAoC, WoW, WAR player.

     

    When it could have read this way:

     

    "Here's my 2c from a long time Elder Scrolls, Daggerfall, Morrowind, Oblvioin, Skyrim player ..."
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