Of the game - neither feasible nor necessary. Add stuff - sure; but lots of development meetings will have been held to make the game what it is. Like it or not it is what it is.
Of the business model - maybe they can but will they?
On PC it will be tough. You don't get the same market penetration second time around. Case in point: SWTOR got fewer f2p accounts in the 6 months after going f2p than they sold full priced boxes in the 6 months after launch. Maybe they could re-launch via Steam though - probably has a chance.
On console - hasn't been a console launch of course but even this will be impacted by what has gone before. Should be possible though. And they can make use of Sony's and Microsoft's sales channels.
And then?
DLC solo content and DLC co-op maps / dungeons / missions. GW1 style rather than GW2 (no cash shop).
Originally posted by battlesam Here's my 2c from a long time DAoC, WoW, WAR player.
Stopped reading there...
ESO is totally different than those 3 you name. ESO was build to be a PvE MMO all around questing, while the ones you played are made with PvP in mind.
Not even remotely true. I'd go so far as to say patently false. WoW was not designed with PvP in mind in any way, shape, or form. It was designed as a PvE raid game. Period.
As for ESO they touted, marketed, and hyped their PvP features almost from its announcement. The idea was for players to battle over Cyrodil and choose a new emperor.
Id' say ESO was designed as a PvP game just as much as WAR and DAoC.
They released the game too early with too many bugs and exploits. No doubt this was due to pressure from their funders. When will dev's learn that their product needs to be in a functioning state at release or they will hemorrhage players in the first month. It amazes me that given the repeated instances of this happening dev's still release buggy shit.
Originally posted by waxmask The next TES should be a normal TES game, but now with multiplay (6players max) options that are Module driven like the Early Never Winter did. How cool would a TES game be if there was floating a Dungeon Master above you throwing in all sorts of stuff at you?
If Todd Howard is still the show-runner this time around, I wouldn't heighten my expectations for such features, he seemed to feel such focus would detract from the whole. I can't really blame him there either, as I think he's right.
I agree. Todd is all about the whole solo RPG experience.
I doubt they will design specific parts of the solo experience with co-op in mind. They'll leave that to the modders to do IMO.
Originally posted by battlesam Here's my 2c from a long time DAoC, WoW, WAR player.
Stopped reading there...
ESO is totally different than those 3 you name. ESO was build to be a PvE MMO all around questing, while the ones you played are made with PvP in mind.
Judging by his post, he clearly believes its the other way around.
These PvP'ers will be the death of MMORPG's. They don't understand them, and as such, do nothing but complain about them.
It's so bad, I had to make a sig about it.
assuming generalizations its not good.
the repliers forgot that the developers didnt allowed players from each faction to visit the PvE content of other factions and initially everyone would meet each other at the Cyrodril. But community was against it, and they well done, so the developers at the end allowed players to visit other faction's PvE content but they added also the Vet system.
ESO was NOT focused to become a pveMMO, thats why they made a HUGE CENTRAL map for PvP...
also from the first MMOs there is the pvp open world element, without it there is no MMO, its called a coop game. If there are not the basic elements of building a society, which means the availability to become a criminal with all its consequences, then you dont have a MassiveMultiplayOnlineRolePlayGame. These are fundamental principles which dont represent FPS alaCounterStrike but MMOworlds alaUltimaOnline.
Originally posted by battlesam Here's my 2c from a long time DAoC, WoW, WAR player.
Stopped reading there...
ESO is totally different than those 3 you name. ESO was build to be a PvE MMO all around questing, while the ones you played are made with PvP in mind.
Judging by his post, he clearly believes its the other way around.
These PvP'ers will be the death of MMORPG's. They don't understand them, and as such, do nothing but complain about them.
It's so bad, I had to make a sig about it.
assuming generalizations its not good.
the repliers forgot that the developers didnt allowed players from each faction to visit the PvE content of other factions and initially everyone would meet each other at the Cyrodril. But community was against it, and they well done, so the developers at the end allowed players to visit other faction's PvE content but they added also the Vet system.
ESO was NOT focused to become a pveMMO, thats why they made a HUGE CENTRAL map for PvP... And in my opinion this is where the Dev's failed. They had a pipe-dream to recreate DAOC utilizing the wealth of history and player base of the Elder Scrolls games which does not revolve around PvP. If they were dead set on implementing PvP then they should have done it on a much smaller scale and scaled up the PvE side. As it is now I don't think ESO will last to long and that is a shame.
also from the first MMOs there is the pvp open world element, without it there is no MMO, its called a coop game. If there are not the basic elements of building a society, which means the availability to become a criminal with all its consequences, then you dont have a MassiveMultiplayOnlineRolePlayGame. These are fundamental principles which dont represent FPS alaCounterStrike but MMOworlds alaUltimaOnline. If you think that "the basic elements of building a society" is to "become a criminal" and if you can't do that then you do not have a proper MMO then I do not want any part of a game of that sort. For me those are "not" Fundamental principles at all, it is catering to a small percentage of the gaming communities and when it is implemented... the game dies.
Originally posted by Destai No, it's time for Bethesda to make an Elder Scrolls 6 that's all of Tamriel with a multiplayer mode. That's what many people want - Skyrim/Oblivion/etc. with friends, not a DAOC style game.
Originally posted by Destai No, it's time for Bethesda to make an Elder Scrolls 6 that's all of Tamriel with a multiplayer mode. That's what many people want - Skyrim/Oblivion/etc. with friends, not a DAOC style game.
It'll come... and when #6 releases we'll whine and moan about when #7 is going to release and so on down the line--while any attempts made by them to branch out and capture a new consumer base they don't already decidedly own will be met with scorn and rage about how they're not catering to us fast enough.
That's just how gamers are, we won't ever be satisfied, but I can't fault them for making the effort to invest in a side project that's ongoing and different, even if I prefer a bit more sand to play with.
I don't remember that happening when Skyrim came out.
No, a "reboot" is not needed. A new advertising campaign would be a great idea though. There are 0 bots in ESO now, 0 gold seller spam, and quests have been fixed. There is a new issue of fps loss in Cyrodiil (pretty f'n major), but other than that ESO has come a long way during the first 3 months.
Originally posted by bcbully No, a "reboot" is not needed. A new advertising campaign would be a great idea though. There are 0 bots in ESO now, 0 gold seller spam, and quests have been fixed. There is a new issue of fps loss in Cyrodiil (pretty f'n major), but other than that ESO has come a long way during the first 3 months.
Bots and Gold Sellers only stick around in games in which they can make a profit due to the population purchasing the Gold from them. No population = No Sales = Bots and Gold Sellers go to next Game they can Farm.
Originally posted by bcbully No, a "reboot" is not needed. A new advertising campaign would be a great idea though. There are 0 bots in ESO now, 0 gold seller spam, and quests have been fixed. There is a new issue of fps loss in Cyrodiil (pretty f'n major), but other than that ESO has come a long way during the first 3 months.
Bots and Gold Sellers only stick around in games in which they can make a profit due to the population purchasing the Gold from them. No population = No Sales = Bots and Gold Sellers go to next Game they can Farm.
Ratero.
Riiight, keep believing that lmao.
ZOS got a couple things right on the technical side. Their account security and bot prevention codes are top notch.
Originally posted by bcbully No, a "reboot" is not needed. A new advertising campaign would be a great idea though. There are 0 bots in ESO now, 0 gold seller spam, and quests have been fixed. There is a new issue of fps loss in Cyrodiil (pretty f'n major), but other than that ESO has come a long way during the first 3 months.
Bots and Gold Sellers only stick around in games in which they can make a profit due to the population purchasing the Gold from them. No population = No Sales = Bots and Gold Sellers go to next Game they can Farm.
Ratero.
Riiight, keep believing that lmao.
ZOS got a couple things right on the technical side. Their account security and bot prevention codes are top notch.
I think he's actually right, noone can stop bots but themselves no matter how top notch the prevention codes are.
Originally posted by bcbully No, a "reboot" is not needed. A new advertising campaign would be a great idea though. There are 0 bots in ESO now, 0 gold seller spam, and quests have been fixed. There is a new issue of fps loss in Cyrodiil (pretty f'n major), but other than that ESO has come a long way during the first 3 months.
Bots and Gold Sellers only stick around in games in which they can make a profit due to the population purchasing the Gold from them. No population = No Sales = Bots and Gold Sellers go to next Game they can Farm.
Ratero.
Riiight, keep believing that lmao.
ZOS got a couple things right on the technical side. Their account security and bot prevention codes are top notch.
I think he's actually right, noone can stop bots but themselves no matter how top notch the prevention codes are.
Doesn't stop a lot of people from bashing devs for "allowing" bots to keep botting... it happened here and some still bring it up as a knock against ZOS and it's also happening in the Wildstar forums.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
I think ESO should have been sandbox oriented from the get go. It bothers me to believe that they decided to not make it happen. Would it be challening? Sure, but this is the ES IP and you should probably do your damn best to make it as top notch and favourable to the series.
With that said I still greatly enjoyed the game, I'm not subbed atm because the VR quest grind started getting tedious and in summer I simply don't have time for that. I think ZOS knows what they need to do. Even if they slowly opened up sandbox elements to the game little at a time, that would make a big difference
They're not going to reboot a game based on a bunch of bads on the internet hating on their game.
If that was the case, every single MMO would be rebooting their MMO every 6 months because you can't please most of the herp a derps who post on the forums.
Originally posted by bcbully No, a "reboot" is not needed. A new advertising campaign would be a great idea though. There are 0 bots in ESO now, 0 gold seller spam, and quests have been fixed. There is a new issue of fps loss in Cyrodiil (pretty f'n major), but other than that ESO has come a long way during the first 3 months.
Bots and Gold Sellers only stick around in games in which they can make a profit due to the population purchasing the Gold from them. No population = No Sales = Bots and Gold Sellers go to next Game they can Farm.
Ratero.
Riiight, keep believing that lmao.
ZOS got a couple things right on the technical side. Their account security and bot prevention codes are top notch.
I think he's actually right, noone can stop bots but themselves no matter how top notch the prevention codes are.
Doesn't stop a lot of people from bashing devs for "allowing" bots to keep botting... it happened here and some still bring it up as a knock against ZOS and it's also happening in the Wildstar forums.
I totally agree with you, there shouldnt be any knock on games because of bots if they are clearly trying to fight them. It's not that easy as people think it is without affecting legit players.
You realize ESO is not made by the people who make the other Elder Scrolls games right?
Not that simple.
Ask yourself a couple of questions:
Do you think TESO could have been released with Wildstar type graphics? Different studio right so they could do what they wanted yes? And what if they decided to add a few Norse gods and maybe the odd ray gun?
Were the people who made The Elder Scrolls: Arena the same people who made Skyrim? Both by Bethseda after all.
Zenimax Media own both studios and the IP - which will be carefully protected.
Its not about people.
Partly it is about culture and organisation (will depend in part on the level of central control exerted by ZM).
ZoS will also have had access to lots of information from Bethseda; they will not have been starting from scratch.
And game fundamentals will have been carefully checked.
As I said its not simple. Easiest way to think of it is that both games were made by Zenimax Media.
An analogy: Snow White and Beauty and the Beast. Different teams of people obviously. And there are differences. But at the end of the day both of them have the Disney style.
You realize ESO is not made by the people who make the other Elder Scrolls games right?
Not that simple.
Ask yourself a couple of questions:
Do you think TESO could have been released with Wildstar type graphics? Different studio right so they could do what they wanted yes? And what if they decided to add a few Norse gods and maybe the odd ray gun?
Were the people who made The Elder Scrolls: Arena the same people who made Skyrim? Both by Bethseda after all.
Zenimax Media own both studios and the IP - which will be carefully protected.
Its not about people.
Partly it is about culture and organisation (will depend in part on the level of central control exerted by ZM).
ZoS will also have had access to lots of information from Bethseda; they will not have been starting from scratch.
And game fundamentals will have been carefully checked.
As I said its not simple. Easiest way to think of it is that both games were made by Zenimax Media.
An analogy: Snow White and Beauty and the Beast. Different teams of people obviously. And there are differences. But at the end of the day both of them have the Disney style.
No..Its pretty much that simple
I'll explain it even better for ya, The people who make the single player Elder Scrolls game, aren't even in the same BUILDING as the people who made ESO
How do I know this? Because I have a guildie who worked for Bethesda, and he spent most of his time working the DLC's for Skyrim....the people doing ESO were completely separate from the people who worked on Skyrim. If you want to know what the people who did Skyrim are working on, Its Fall Out 4.... That is not a joke either, They were working on Assets for it even before ESO was released.
I'd have preferred it as a pvp game I think, you can still have the missions for pve in it, just add some kind of guard force who help a bit to protect from camping the npcs and then tanking those on quests in lower levels .. I think it builds more community as you rely on each other more for either attack or protection from attack.
I'd like a game somewhat like the OLD UO, the pvp one just in current day graphics and 'maybe' a new skill system, still skill based though.
If they wanted to make a TES MMO, they could have pulled that off.
I'd like a game somewhat like the OLD UO, the pvp one just in current day graphics and 'maybe' a new skill system, still skill based though.
You should probably look into Darkfall. It isn't UO - there are differences - but it is "UO like" and may be something you like. There are vids you can look at etc.so you can see if you like the graphics and so forth.
Originally posted by Destai No, it's time for Bethesda to make an Elder Scrolls 6 that's all of Tamriel with a multiplayer mode. That's what many people want - Skyrim/Oblivion/etc. with friends, not a DAOC style game.
No i wanted a DAoC Style game but eso is not a DAoC style game it is PvP wise just staffs and robes
I'd like a game somewhat like the OLD UO, the pvp one just in current day graphics and 'maybe' a new skill system, still skill based though.
You should probably look into Darkfall. It isn't UO - there are differences - but it is "UO like" and may be something you like. There are vids you can look at etc.so you can see if you like the graphics and so forth.
Comments
Reboot?
Of the game - neither feasible nor necessary. Add stuff - sure; but lots of development meetings will have been held to make the game what it is. Like it or not it is what it is.
Of the business model - maybe they can but will they?
On PC it will be tough. You don't get the same market penetration second time around. Case in point: SWTOR got fewer f2p accounts in the 6 months after going f2p than they sold full priced boxes in the 6 months after launch. Maybe they could re-launch via Steam though - probably has a chance.
On console - hasn't been a console launch of course but even this will be impacted by what has gone before. Should be possible though. And they can make use of Sony's and Microsoft's sales channels.
And then?
DLC solo content and DLC co-op maps / dungeons / missions. GW1 style rather than GW2 (no cash shop).
Not even remotely true. I'd go so far as to say patently false. WoW was not designed with PvP in mind in any way, shape, or form. It was designed as a PvE raid game. Period.
As for ESO they touted, marketed, and hyped their PvP features almost from its announcement. The idea was for players to battle over Cyrodil and choose a new emperor.
Id' say ESO was designed as a PvP game just as much as WAR and DAoC.
I agree. Todd is all about the whole solo RPG experience.
I doubt they will design specific parts of the solo experience with co-op in mind. They'll leave that to the modders to do IMO.
assuming generalizations its not good.
the repliers forgot that the developers didnt allowed players from each faction to visit the PvE content of other factions and initially everyone would meet each other at the Cyrodril. But community was against it, and they well done, so the developers at the end allowed players to visit other faction's PvE content but they added also the Vet system.
ESO was NOT focused to become a pveMMO, thats why they made a HUGE CENTRAL map for PvP...
also from the first MMOs there is the pvp open world element, without it there is no MMO, its called a coop game. If there are not the basic elements of building a society, which means the availability to become a criminal with all its consequences, then you dont have a MassiveMultiplayOnlineRolePlayGame. These are fundamental principles which dont represent FPS alaCounterStrike but MMOworlds alaUltimaOnline.
Ratero.
Yes
I don't remember that happening when Skyrim came out.
Bots and Gold Sellers only stick around in games in which they can make a profit due to the population purchasing the Gold from them. No population = No Sales = Bots and Gold Sellers go to next Game they can Farm.
Ratero.
Riiight, keep believing that lmao.
ZOS got a couple things right on the technical side. Their account security and bot prevention codes are top notch.
I think he's actually right, noone can stop bots but themselves no matter how top notch the prevention codes are.
Doesn't stop a lot of people from bashing devs for "allowing" bots to keep botting... it happened here and some still bring it up as a knock against ZOS and it's also happening in the Wildstar forums.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
I think ESO should have been sandbox oriented from the get go. It bothers me to believe that they decided to not make it happen. Would it be challening? Sure, but this is the ES IP and you should probably do your damn best to make it as top notch and favourable to the series.
With that said I still greatly enjoyed the game, I'm not subbed atm because the VR quest grind started getting tedious and in summer I simply don't have time for that. I think ZOS knows what they need to do. Even if they slowly opened up sandbox elements to the game little at a time, that would make a big difference
yes ESO is a average overpriced quest grind.
I uninstalled the crap last night and did not even play it for more than a view weeks.
when are we going to get a real elders scrolls game?
if the eso crap did not happen we would have had a real elders scrolls game from Bethesda and todd howard now we have a fake overpriced pretty turd.
They're not going to reboot a game based on a bunch of bads on the internet hating on their game.
If that was the case, every single MMO would be rebooting their MMO every 6 months because you can't please most of the herp a derps who post on the forums.
You realize ESO is not made by the people who make the other Elder Scrolls games right?
Probably not..See my previous post on Herp a Derps
Idk maybe that's what ESO looks like to PvE only people.
To the PvPr the action is as good as it gets atm. No quest needed. I rarely step foot in "PvE land" as I like to call it.
I totally agree with you, there shouldnt be any knock on games because of bots if they are clearly trying to fight them. It's not that easy as people think it is without affecting legit players.
Not that simple.
Ask yourself a couple of questions:
No..Its pretty much that simple
I'll explain it even better for ya, The people who make the single player Elder Scrolls game, aren't even in the same BUILDING as the people who made ESO
How do I know this? Because I have a guildie who worked for Bethesda, and he spent most of his time working the DLC's for Skyrim....the people doing ESO were completely separate from the people who worked on Skyrim. If you want to know what the people who did Skyrim are working on, Its Fall Out 4.... That is not a joke either, They were working on Assets for it even before ESO was released.
I'd have preferred it as a pvp game I think, you can still have the missions for pve in it, just add some kind of guard force who help a bit to protect from camping the npcs and then tanking those on quests in lower levels .. I think it builds more community as you rely on each other more for either attack or protection from attack.
I'd like a game somewhat like the OLD UO, the pvp one just in current day graphics and 'maybe' a new skill system, still skill based though.
If they wanted to make a TES MMO, they could have pulled that off.
You should probably look into Darkfall. It isn't UO - there are differences - but it is "UO like" and may be something you like. There are vids you can look at etc.so you can see if you like the graphics and so forth.
No i wanted a DAoC Style game but eso is not a DAoC style game it is PvP wise just staffs and robes
Or he should have a look on Albion online!