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Originally posted by cylon8 1...its a sandbox and by nature sandboxes have never ever been solely a pve experience ever 2.) even just sleeping through the quests hitting level 50 doesn't take very long and since you and overachieve every quest leveling comes at a rapid pace 3.) you can avoid contested areas as they are CLEARLY marked on the map and annound via in game messaging 4.) you're given a variety of ways to get buffs to augment your characters viability in pvp as you said through poition, food, crafting items, etc. what exactly is bad about that. I think what I am getting very tired of is the WOW/COD pvp players that expect things out of archeage that it never proclaimed itself to be.
Im just curious, Ive only played to level 30 and did a ton of other stuff than doing quests. So if you only overachieve quests, will you actually be higher level than the mobs? Or is it just a "hidden" system to promote more grind and make us feel rewarded for it?
Another "i cant PvP or PvE- so the game is bad".
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Originally posted by Sive0n In the end I find my self struggling not to label this game as Pay-2-Win.
How is this different from other games that had pvp and were "item centric"?
And level centric for that matter.
Even Tera, which was more "skill based", had a curve whereby if you were lower level you were at a disadvantage.
ESO has you scale up but a true level 50 will still be at an advantage over, say a level 45. Or from what I read 49.
It just seems par for the course for level based/gear based games.
Originally posted by andre369 Originally posted by cylon8 1...its a sandbox and by nature sandboxes have never ever been solely a pve experience ever 2.) even just sleeping through the quests hitting level 50 doesn't take very long and since you and overachieve every quest leveling comes at a rapid pace 3.) you can avoid contested areas as they are CLEARLY marked on the map and annound via in game messaging 4.) you're given a variety of ways to get buffs to augment your characters viability in pvp as you said through poition, food, crafting items, etc. what exactly is bad about that. I think what I am getting very tired of is the WOW/COD pvp players that expect things out of archeage that it never proclaimed itself to be.
AA system gives you an ability to try different thing. By the time i got to lvl 50 i had 4 skill trees maxed out. I`m still working on another 2. So i can switch and choose what i want, depending on , whom i fight.
Originally posted by Sovrath Originally posted by Sive0n In the end I find my self struggling not to label this game as Pay-2-Win.
there`s plenty of youtube to prove you wrong. Each class have its anti-class. One on one there r claasses thats just rock. But u put them in group pvp and they r useless.
Originally posted by negativf4kk Originally posted by Sovrath Originally posted by Sive0n In the end I find my self struggling not to label this game as Pay-2-Win.
Great, it was an honest question, go ahead. Which game are you actually talking about? Tera?ESO? Another game?
Are you saying a top leveled player in one of these games with top gear can go up against a lower level player, maybe even with sub par gear, and lose?
Show me, I'm keen to learn.
now now, please don't go saying stupid things:
<< pvp is item centric >> can you explain me what do you want? do you maybe want to get the best gears in your mailbox every 5 levels?
the best gear is the crafted sets and weapons. NO trick, NO trap. do you pay to craft those? NO. do you NEED to sub to get those? NO. do you want to avoid crafting and just go selling stuff to buy the gear? POSSIBLE. so what's your point when saying that?
i mean seriously you said two things that do not match at all:
"pvp is item centric'' <=> "i am a pvper"
so tell me mister pvper, can you show me a single MMORPG where the quality of your gear is not the most important factor in pvp?
Originally posted by Sive0n Originally posted by Sinaku Have you even played AA? Like 25 of my levels have come from farming or fishing or crafting so you can avoid pvp all together. I get killed a lot but there is literally no death penalty. Group up with people, 2 lvl 30s can kill a level 50 so I just dont really understand your argument. Honestly you hype gear and buffs way up and say you have never seen that in another game? What MMOs have you played? Complaining about gear sets, food buffs, and potion buffs? Like that is literally in every MMO out there dude.
There is a timer penalty which increases up to 3 min look at the screen before you can spawn, plus you lose points if it's in war time.
2 players lvl 30 can't always kill a level 50, unless he is a bad player with a non-pvp class/combo. You can just CC one player 1-2shot the other then kill the CC guy.
In other games buffs are gained from classes not the items them selves, here you actually get more buffs from items than your own class skills.
Buffs aren't a problem per say... its when their affect makes such a difference that they became mandatory, that it becomes an issue. Buffs from consumables in AA are better than the class skill buffs, its ridiculous... its clearly an Asian way to force players to grind and subscribe.
Well I said what my opinions are each one is free to have their own and agree or not with mine. I can only advise others to play on Russian server before committing to a pre-order of the NA/EU version.
Honestly there are countless MMOs that have food and potion buffs. Also, on my class alone I have 3 class buffs. The debuff after death only doesn't allow you to attack boss monsters or any monster marked with that debuff, so that isn't really a problem for PvP. As for losing honor, war only lasts about 1 hour 30 minutes, it is insanely easy to avoid that area and then go back for the 3 hour peaceful period to follow (not to mention the loss of honor is directly scaled to the level that killed you).
1v1 isn't the main objective of this game as you will see with the larger scale battles, and ship battles for trade runs. And as others have said already each class has 1 or more counter classes. Just because a full plate tank can kill a rogue easily doesn't mean he can handle a ranged class. Everything you say is situational and doesn't always hold true so I feel like you just hit a bad rut.
In the end I have seen about 50/50 skill to equipment ratio. I don't find buffs from food or potions or anything like that to decide a battle before it ever starts, and it never deters me from attacking someone. I'm not sure if you only played the Russian version but you should probably try the US/EU version before trying to justify that claim because it simply isn't true.
I know I sound rude and I apologize I just don't find any of your claims to hold up at level 50 in the US/EU version. We don't have our cash shop so I can't comment on anything like that. But like you pretty much said to each his own opinion.
Originally posted by SomeHuman Originally posted by Quazal.A Fiunny thing This game is pvp based, the pve is great I am the stereo-typical 'carebear' i love earning money in any game, I play a game for the industry, but this game has pvp at its very very core. If that is a problem then why play this game, surely 5 minutes of reading would tell you thats its a pvp game. But, what is the worst that can happen in this game?? You get killed, you get ressed at the priest where you can pray to get any lost xp back, no biggie, you dont lease gear, dont lose gold, the only time your farm is in trouble is if you dont pay rent If you are getting griefed by the priestess, then simply HS back to a town, problem solved, you will run in to gangs of the other faction, but no more than they will run into gangs of your faction. I would have preferred if this game had some form of loss after death in pvp, even if it was gear breaking, but fact is dying has 0 consequence in this game.
Agree about the death penalty; there should be something
I like it the way it is and respectfully disagree with both of you.
Originally posted by raggnircan you show me a single MMORPG where the quality of your gear is not the most important factor in pvp?
It's true though. PVP lovers kept touting this PVP game as theirs and made fun of people who happen not to like PVP very much, if at all.
Well...there is not much of an actual PVP system in the game. You basically gank people or duel. Wildstar actually has the real deal for PVP with elaborate systems for PVP. WS is not even a PVP game but has more fun PVP and more challenges.
AA offers PVPer's not much in the way of PVP even though the publishers keep stressing it's a "PVP game" Well.....not really it's not. Not a thinking woman or man's PVP. Just messy ganking.
Originally posted by raggnir now now, please don't go saying stupid things: << pvp is item centric >> can you explain me what do you want? do you maybe want to get the best gears in your mailbox every 5 levels? the best gear is the crafted sets and weapons. NO trick, NO trap. do you pay to craft those? NO. do you NEED to sub to get those? NO. do you want to avoid crafting and just go selling stuff to buy the gear? POSSIBLE. so what's your point when saying that? i mean seriously you said two things that do not match at all: "pvp is item centric'' <=> "i am a pvper" so tell me mister pvper, can you show me a single MMORPG where the quality of your gear is not the most important factor in pvp?
Uhh Guild Wars. Start at max level with what ever gear you want. Gear didnt matter.
IMO the subject of PvP confuses people. There are many ways to go about making a PvP game and I am sure that all those ways are enjoyable to someone. Some people enjoy gear based games and PvP and some do not. I am tired of hearing people act is if their method is the only method.
Personally I want a game with about a power ratio around 40% level, 10% gear, 50% skill, mix. I want to see 2 level 30s be damn near equivalent to 1 level 60. To me a sword is a fucking sword. If everyone kills john snow and 90000000 people are walking around with longclaw, its just a fucking sword at that point and there is nothing special about it. Imo to much emphasis is placed upon gaining supposedly rare items that everyone ends up with, making them not exactly rare items...
This shit is all opinions and I am tired of people belittling others for having different opinions to theirs. A game can be made any which way with any mechanic or rules. Everyone in the world doesnt find the exact same rules and mechanics enjoyable or there would be one mmorpg and everyone would be happy.
Originally posted by Sovrath Originally posted by negativf4kk Originally posted by Sovrath Originally posted by Sive0n In the end I find my self struggling not to label this game as Pay-2-Win.
I was talking about AA. Gear doesnt mean a lot, if you know class you play.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IOrZAq8Ge6o he is wearing set from jail that has basics stats.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LEjLAiQpMCE 6 vs 12
The more I hear about PvP and watch the videos the easier it is to prepare for what to expect once it goes live (Hopefully by then its a much more polished and sensible game overall for many to enjoy and lose themselves in);
From the looks of things this is definitely a Min/Max game (This isn't hard to calculate as far as build/gear/skill useage concerning any form of engagement)
One thing that sucks is how much CC (crowd control) there is in the game and it is definitely one of the primary determining factor in PvP encounters. They need to adjust this so there are random factors involved in every engagement; i.e. random percentage based on level/skill/tree to fail or produce an unexpected result, effective counters to every form of crowd control available through skill/tree, gear modifiers, terrain/weather modifiers, substantial lessening effects upon repeated use, health/hitpoint modifier for overall effectiveness, etc... Nothing worse then getting tooled simply because of OP CC lameness. This is one of my primary complaints in PvP games and even in PvE games as it turns MOBs into absolute non factors as they are disregarded and easily dispatched often without even a chance to do anything.
Not sure how gear dependant and influential the game is but any Min/Max player will definitely be considering everything concerning his PvP template.
I played vanilla WoW and Shamans were seriously OP, as were Shadow Priests; Specializing in Alchemy I surprised alot of Shamans and a few Shadow Priests. OP Class/Template factors do present a challenge to the fools who choose to fail simply because they didn't go with OP Class/Template design for PvP. Here's hoping they balance alot of the OP Class/Template designs so players can be effective with a great variety of builds.
Healers rule all PvP; This is something hard to dismiss in any MMORPG when it comes to PvP engagements. Due to the fact healers can heal; throw in some CC and you got yourself an OP build. The day a MMORPG effectively address and balances healing in regards to PvP and PvE is the day players will actually have to put alot more effort into their gameplay. These are games nonetheless so I do not forsee this one ever being changed alot.
Melee seems to have a hard time of it, go freakin figure. This proves they haven't addressed this effectively enough as have many other MMORPGs in the past have tried and many have failed as its the old adage goes; Here we go again! Cuz Ranged owns Melee a great majority of the time, ugh...
I could go on and on though I wanted to point out some concerns that should be addressed during the Testing Phases that ya'll are not only participating in and paying for! If there's anything you want to address and fix before this game goes live; Its entirely up to proper and repeated player feedback through the proper channels so the squeaky wheel gets the oil, so to speak. How this game ends up is the collective responsibility of the player base and the developers in the long run.
Make this game make sense and they will come!
Doesn't sound like you're a PvP player by nature at all. Sounds like you're a carebear to be perfectly honest.
You're complaining about things to be perfectly expected in a PvP game...
Originally posted by helthros Doesn't sound like you're a PvP player by nature at all. Sounds like you're a carebear to be perfectly honest. You're complaining about things to be perfectly expected in a PvP game...
Been killing 50s since I was 35.
Paying won't make you any better, or any worse. It also won't get you better gear. This game is not p2w.
This game is also not balanced around 1v1.
I've seen 2 level 30's kill a level 50. Levels are scaled surprisingly well.
This game is has dice rolls like almost every other MMO, crits/amputations etc.
All I hear is crying.
If ya'll were referring to me being a carebear all I gotta do is laugh;
Participated in PvP in pretty much every notable MMORPG since The Realm
In Everquest , a friend and I (gnome necromancer and halfling druid) kept all comers out of Crushbone all night, any night we choose to do it; Simply said PnP didn't exist in our books and we broke and exploited every facet of the game (after the game moderators went to sleep) as our notoriety spread we continued to step up our game. There is no such thing as an exploit or a rule on a PvP server. Win at all costs!
World rated Unreal Player back in the days of dial up; try playing a first person shooter on dial up some time( forget out about it cuz its not going to happen) and it being a game where if you hesitated for even a milisecond you died, often without any idea who, what or how. Focus, concentration, timing, and skill determined the outcome of every engagement.
First player in the world to rank 7 realm (roughly a million points) in Dark Age of Camelot; Merlin server (unofficial PvP server at launch; in otherwords most of the notable PvP powerguilds settled on this server at launch); character named Ninpo (Albion). Ever heard of DAoC? :P
Created a template in Shadowbane beta that was so insanely OP (was never killed and wiped out entire groups regularly) that the developers refused to award me the prize for winning the leveling contest (with a different character) so therefore I left; but not after I predicted the demise of the game pretty accurately.
I could go on and on here but I wanted to point out that its easy to sit back and criticize, label, judge, ridicule, etc...on a forum. Its entirely another to post constructive well thought out posts that actually address the heart of the matter, for everyone involved.
The seasoned and strategic PKer player will always best the naysayers, whiners, complainers, etc...cuz whilst they carry on about game (most likely due to gettin ownt time and again), the PKer dominates their game
Oh btw this is considered the ALPHA TESTING phase to all you geniuses, pardon me for wanting to make things much more reasonably challenging for ya'll LOL
To those of you who complain about PvP in a PvP game; This isn't a dream, its a game....wake up already O.o
Originally posted by Sive0n First of all keep in mind that I am a PvP player by nature. I've been playing on the russian servers and being ganked its just too common, not that there is anything wrong with being attacked while questing or what ever you where doing, but when you have no chance to fight back... that is just wrong. The game concept runs around having an open world where you can do things(such as trade runs, treasure hunting, etc) but there is always a risk to encounter PvP. However ArcheAge is so item centric it ruins it self. The developers(and fans) try to tell you that you can do what ever you want before you reach max level and that you can avoid PvP... well that cake is a lie! Once you hit around lvl 30 you are pretty much forced into going to contested areas, that fact alone doesn't bother me since I like PvP, however players of all levels roam these areas which means you're the fresh meat on the block and because of the item dependency of the game you have no chance to fight back. This item dependency is not an exaggeration, you get buffs for using a specific type of gear, you get buffs for using a specific rarity of gear, you get buffs by using potions, you get buffs by using food and drinks... the scale in which items influence this game is like nothing I've ever experience... it's an Asian game. Even trying to engage a lvl 50 with a level 45-49 means death unless its a bot, so you are forced to get to 50 and get decent gear do start to have a fighting chance so you can do other things and not be steam rolled. Fact is when a game is 80% items 20% skill... open world where pvp reins free doesn't work and that's the main focus of ArcheAge. To add more wood to the fire, everything in the game(harvesting, crafting, trading, fishing, etc...) is heavily dependent on Labor points which is very limited for free players(specially in the Russian version). This not only forces free players into piracy(because you cant do anything but PvP without labor Points), it also makes it that much harder to get items to be competitive even as a PvP player. In the end I find my self struggling not to label this game as Pay-2-Win.
Your statement is alarming to me and not because I agree or disagree. I have heard similar comments from friends of mine who were urging me to give this game a try. Now they are changing their tune and their reasons are mentioned in your post. Oh well it may be another game to scratch off the list it appears.
I really don't like the labor points idea at all. I don't care about how much paid and free accounts get. I think they should remove them altogether. I figured that the PvP wouldn't exactly be skill focused. I just don't understand the crying if you don't lose anything other than 30 seconds - 2min.
I will still try the game out but they need to finish the sieging and north continent soon.
ArcheAge works like this...
Subscription or Patron accounts have access to houses and farms, that's it. You can grow your own crops and craft the best gear because you have access to those things. Now, as a F2P account, you can still craft and I believe you can still farm, but you just can't own any land so you must join a guild that is in need of your labor. Crafted gear is the best in the game and because of this, anyone and everyone should have access to it. You won't need to dungeon crawl or kill world bosses in order to gear up. That being said, everything you mentioned as being an advantage... the potions, food, drinks and gear are available to EVERYONE.
AA is not P2W and it does not discriminate against any style of player. If you are coming to AA to PvE or do some farming / crafting, I suggest you do so as a Patron. AA is only useful in the F2P status if you are strictly PvP or PvE grind. There is still no P2W option unless you think being a subscriber is P2W in which case all I can say is, pay $15 a month and stop complaining. It's not a lot of money and it hasn't been for nearly 15 years when games like UO and EQ came out and cost that much.