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Hex: Wizards of the Coast Files Suit Against Cryptozoic

13

Comments

  • summitussummitus Member UncommonPosts: 1,414
    Originally posted by Kyleran
    Hmm, if this suit prevails, think of how much money Blizzard could try to sue for. Probably better if this doesn't succeed.

    I think your right ,and maybe better for the industry as whole if this doesn't succeed.

  • GadarethGadareth Member UncommonPosts: 310
    Originally posted by summitus
    Originally posted by Gadareth
    Originally posted by summitus
    Originally posted by Gadareth
    Originally posted by summitus

    This just goes to prove guys .. its all about the money ...not the gamers.  sigh

    I have been looking forward to Hex, so now because of Wotc greed , I'm going to have to wait .. or in the worst case scenario , never get to play it at all .. fuck you Wizards ...

    In this case its all about the ripoff Hex should not have just copied someone elses game and called it their own WoTC have every right to call them on it.

    Like the hundreds of other clones of Magic out there never bothered them before has it . You look at how you want, but its pure and simple greed , or the fact that Hex is a far better game that the pos Mtgo is ...

    Show me another game which copies MTG to the same extent with NOTHING new added just show me one ....

    btw. DAMN YOU !!! for making me defend WoTC/hasbro I actually despise the company and the way they are pushing DnD into a card game motif. But if were going to condemn them lets do so on something they are actually wrong about.

    The fact that HEX is a carbon copy of MTG is without question and as such they at least have the right to challenge it. It is up to the courts to decide what the law says but there is enough copy and pasting there to warrent the action.

    Well they are all clones in one way or another , but here is one that uses 5 colours for Mana  " Mytheria "... " also  " Elements " has similar mechanics ... so will they sue them too ? .. Don't bother defending Wotc .. you cant , they are greedy assholes.

    Thats ONE aspect I mean find me a game which has nothing new and just copies in every detail MTG to the same degree hex has.....

    Look I understand hating WoTC but get a grip and actually find something legitimate to hate them over sueing someone because they just carbon copied your game is reasonable.

    I seriously doubt they will win the law suit as has already been mentioned plagerism in games isnt enforced but just think if this case wins we will actual have legal grounds to stop the gaming markets current trend of cookie cutter development ...

    Which means this could be a huge advance in unique games being developed.

     

  • summitussummitus Member UncommonPosts: 1,414
    Originally posted by Gadareth
    Originally posted by summitus
    Originally posted by Gadareth
    Originally posted by summitus
    Originally posted by Gadareth
    Originally posted by summitus

    This just goes to prove guys .. its all about the money ...not the gamers.  sigh

    I have been looking forward to Hex, so now because of Wotc greed , I'm going to have to wait .. or in the worst case scenario , never get to play it at all .. fuck you Wizards ...

    In this case its all about the ripoff Hex should not have just copied someone elses game and called it their own WoTC have every right to call them on it.

    Like the hundreds of other clones of Magic out there never bothered them before has it . You look at how you want, but its pure and simple greed , or the fact that Hex is a far better game that the pos Mtgo is ...

    Show me another game which copies MTG to the same extent with NOTHING new added just show me one ....

    btw. DAMN YOU !!! for making me defend WoTC/hasbro I actually despise the company and the way they are pushing DnD into a card game motif. But if were going to condemn them lets do so on something they are actually wrong about.

    The fact that HEX is a carbon copy of MTG is without question and as such they at least have the right to challenge it. It is up to the courts to decide what the law says but there is enough copy and pasting there to warrent the action.

    Well they are all clones in one way or another , but here is one that uses 5 colours for Mana  " Mytheria "... " also  " Elements " has similar mechanics ... so will they sue them too ? .. Don't bother defending Wotc .. you cant , they are greedy assholes.

    Thats ONE aspect I mean find me a game which has nothing new and just copies in every detail MTG to the same degree hex has.....

    Look I understand hating WoTC but get a grip and actually find something legitimate to hate them over sueing someone because they just carbon copied your game is reasonable.

    I seriously doubt they will win the law suit as has already been mentioned plagerism in games isnt enforced but just think if this case wins we will actual have legal grounds to stop the gaming markets current trend of cookie cutter development ...

    Which means this could be a huge advance in unique games being developed.

     

    I have already given you examples and I sure there are many others out there. Why don't they sue every fucking card game that has "attack and defence values" or "hey our cards have Dragons on them you cant put a fucking Dragon on yours". Your nitpicking to the extreme here to defend this BS,   and its also a matter of opinion how much Hex is like Mtg anyway.

  • GadarethGadareth Member UncommonPosts: 310
    Originally posted by summitus
    Originally posted by Gadareth
    Originally posted by summitus
    Originally posted by Gadareth
    Originally posted by summitus
    Originally posted by Gadareth
    Originally posted by summitus

    This just goes to prove guys .. its all about the money ...not the gamers.  sigh

    I have been looking forward to Hex, so now because of Wotc greed , I'm going to have to wait .. or in the worst case scenario , never get to play it at all .. fuck you Wizards ...

    In this case its all about the ripoff Hex should not have just copied someone elses game and called it their own WoTC have every right to call them on it.

    Like the hundreds of other clones of Magic out there never bothered them before has it . You look at how you want, but its pure and simple greed , or the fact that Hex is a far better game that the pos Mtgo is ...

    Show me another game which copies MTG to the same extent with NOTHING new added just show me one ....

    btw. DAMN YOU !!! for making me defend WoTC/hasbro I actually despise the company and the way they are pushing DnD into a card game motif. But if were going to condemn them lets do so on something they are actually wrong about.

    The fact that HEX is a carbon copy of MTG is without question and as such they at least have the right to challenge it. It is up to the courts to decide what the law says but there is enough copy and pasting there to warrent the action.

    Well they are all clones in one way or another , but here is one that uses 5 colours for Mana  " Mytheria "... " also  " Elements " has similar mechanics ... so will they sue them too ? .. Don't bother defending Wotc .. you cant , they are greedy assholes.

    Thats ONE aspect I mean find me a game which has nothing new and just copies in every detail MTG to the same degree hex has.....

    Look I understand hating WoTC but get a grip and actually find something legitimate to hate them over sueing someone because they just carbon copied your game is reasonable.

    I seriously doubt they will win the law suit as has already been mentioned plagerism in games isnt enforced but just think if this case wins we will actual have legal grounds to stop the gaming markets current trend of cookie cutter development ...

    Which means this could be a huge advance in unique games being developed.

     

    I have already given you examples and I sure there are many others out there. Why don't they sue every fucking card game that has "attack and defence values" or "hey our cards have Dragons on them you cant put a fucking Dragon on yours". Your nitpicking to the extreme here to defend this BS,   and its also a matter of opinion how much Hex is like Mtg anyway.

    No its a matter of record just read the court application posted earlier in this chat it includes a list of why they say its a copy. Read that were not talking one or two factors here. We are talking if it walks like a duck quakes like a duck, swims like a duck even if you call it a hex its s till a duck.

    Still I get it you hate WoTC and don't want to actually think that maybe the little guy is the one being a dick. Being a big company and protecting your interests from parasites is not a bad thing.

    Hex should go back to the drawing room and actually develop a unique game style of their own.

     

     

     

     

  • summitussummitus Member UncommonPosts: 1,414
    Originally posted by Gadareth
    Originally posted by summitus
    Originally posted by Gadareth
    Originally posted by summitus
    Originally posted by Gadareth
    Originally posted by summitus
    Originally posted by Gadareth
    Originally posted by summitus

    This just goes to prove guys .. its all about the money ...not the gamers.  sigh

    I have been looking forward to Hex, so now because of Wotc greed , I'm going to have to wait .. or in the worst case scenario , never get to play it at all .. fuck you Wizards ...

    In this case its all about the ripoff Hex should not have just copied someone elses game and called it their own WoTC have every right to call them on it.

    Like the hundreds of other clones of Magic out there never bothered them before has it . You look at how you want, but its pure and simple greed , or the fact that Hex is a far better game that the pos Mtgo is ...

    Show me another game which copies MTG to the same extent with NOTHING new added just show me one ....

    btw. DAMN YOU !!! for making me defend WoTC/hasbro I actually despise the company and the way they are pushing DnD into a card game motif. But if were going to condemn them lets do so on something they are actually wrong about.

    The fact that HEX is a carbon copy of MTG is without question and as such they at least have the right to challenge it. It is up to the courts to decide what the law says but there is enough copy and pasting there to warrent the action.

    Well they are all clones in one way or another , but here is one that uses 5 colours for Mana  " Mytheria "... " also  " Elements " has similar mechanics ... so will they sue them too ? .. Don't bother defending Wotc .. you cant , they are greedy assholes.

    Thats ONE aspect I mean find me a game which has nothing new and just copies in every detail MTG to the same degree hex has.....

    Look I understand hating WoTC but get a grip and actually find something legitimate to hate them over sueing someone because they just carbon copied your game is reasonable.

    I seriously doubt they will win the law suit as has already been mentioned plagerism in games isnt enforced but just think if this case wins we will actual have legal grounds to stop the gaming markets current trend of cookie cutter development ...

    Which means this could be a huge advance in unique games being developed.

     

    I have already given you examples and I sure there are many others out there. Why don't they sue every fucking card game that has "attack and defence values" or "hey our cards have Dragons on them you cant put a fucking Dragon on yours". Your nitpicking to the extreme here to defend this BS,   and its also a matter of opinion how much Hex is like Mtg anyway.

    No its a matter of record just read the court application posted earlier in this chat it includes a list of why they say its a copy. Read that were not talking one or two factors here. We are talking if it walks like a duck quakes like a duck, swims like a duck even if you call it a hex its s till a duck.

    Still I get it you hate WoTC and don't want to actually think that maybe the little guy is the one being a dick. Being a big company and protecting your interests from parasites is not a bad thing.

    Hex should go back to the drawing room and actually develop a unique game style of their own.

     

     

     

     

    Dude I respect your opinion , but we are never going to agree on this. I just hope I now still get to play Hex at some point.

  • Dreamo84Dreamo84 Member UncommonPosts: 3,713
    They might have approached Blizzard and settled privately. They said they tried to settle with Cryptozoic but they wouldn't do it. It sounds like Hex plays a lot similar to Magic than Hearthstone does though.

    image
  • Dreamo84Dreamo84 Member UncommonPosts: 3,713
    And if you think any company cares more about gamers than money you are delusional and they are really good at PR lol.

    image
  • NephaeriusNephaerius Member UncommonPosts: 1,671

    You should actually read the lawsuit before you comment.  The suit makes clear that WOTC has been working with Cryptozoic to reach some form of agreement for some time but they have failed to do so.  Therefore, there's no suddenly about the lawsuit it's been in the works for quite some time.

    Also, if you look at pages 17-19 of the complaint they list all the similarities between the two games and it's pretty ridiculous to an outside observer how much they have in common.  If you take a look at screenshots of HEX vs. MTG Duels of the Planeswalkers there are also striking similarities to the UI, playfield, etc. 

    The what about Hearthstone arguments are a bit silly as well.  Hearthstone actually shares very few mechanics with actual MtG - they look and play totally different, you choose what to attack, don't choose blockers, do not have land or resource cards etc etc.  HEX literally took the same 5 color system from MtG and kept the qualities of the magic of those colors exactly the same as MtG.  Hearthstone doesn't come close to doing anything like that.

    I'm no fan of WOTC and I would like to see HEX/Cryptozoic succeed but I don't think this is the frivilous lawsuit some of you are making it out to be.

    Steam: Neph

  • Geebus80Geebus80 Member Posts: 92

    IP in the regards that we see it today (as a mechanism to control and profit from) is stupid. It limits innovation and advancement, slowing the evolution of any society that allows it to a level far below what a society that promoted free information and idea exchange would be paced at.

     

    You cant own an idea anymore than you can own say a dream or an ideology. Until we drop this obscene stance that ideas are there to be controlled and profited from we will never move forward as a society at the pace we should be.

     

    Perhaps that is why our tech is outpacing our level of mental development so quickly.

  • AeonbladesAeonblades Member Posts: 2,083
    Originally posted by Geebus80

    IP in the regards that we see it today (as a mechanism to control and profit from) is stupid. It limits innovation and advancement, slowing the evolution of any society that allows it to a level far below what a society that promoted free information and idea exchange would be paced at.

     

    You cant own an idea anymore than you can own say a dream or an ideology. Until we drop this obscene stance that ideas are there to be controlled and profited from we will never move forward as a society at the pace we should be.

     

    Perhaps that is why our tech is outpacing our level of mental development so quickly.

    See the problem I have with this train of thought is, people expect the best out of people rather than the worst. The assumption that things will somehow be better with free ideas, free products, free everything, is just too happy go lucky for my tastes. Humans don't function that way. If we can't profit on ideas, the system would be changed to profit on something most likely far worse than just ideas.

     

    I guess my point is, even without patent laws and intellectual property rights, nothing is going to change, Humans will always try to profit over others through whatever means are available to them. To think that there would be some huge societal change due to the removal of patent laws is a bit naive for my tastes.

    Currently Playing: ESO and FFXIV
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    If you mention rose tinted glasses, you better be referring to Mitch Hedberg.

  • ZeymereZeymere Member UncommonPosts: 210
    Originally posted by Ikonis

    Did any of you people attacking WoTC even read the lawsuit? 

    http://www.scribd.com/doc/224144304/Wizards-of-the-Coast-v-Cryptozoic-Entertainment-et-al

    They have a very good reason. How many card games has there been since Magic? Why haven't all those tons and tons of games not been sued? Because they didn't go out of their way to clone Magic. They actually brought entirely new game play mechanics.  Hex copied Magic beat for beat. The colors, tapping, turn sequence, resolution rules, resource management, everything. All they did was change some names. It is the exact same game. 

    Thanks for sharing this.  HOLY CRAP! I am an avid magic player and was really looking forward to hex.  I do see there are sooo many similarities that well it does hold water.  To what end can you sell something and just change some things and call it something else?  I dunno alot of the game mechanics like raiding etc will be different than MTGOL but i am not sure that some of the mechanics will be enough to hold up a difference in court.

    I wish HEX all the best looks like they have an uphill battle.

    Z.

  • bbbb42bbbb42 Member UncommonPosts: 297
    Originally posted by Sector13
    Originally posted by seafirex

    You should look at vids of the gameplay etc.. It is basically the same game except some name change and a few twist to it.

    But in the end it is the same game. Thats why they are doing this. It is there right in this case. I would be mad at the dev that actually created this. Not the other way around. 

    Ok, and why are they not sueing Blizzard over Hearthstone? Hearthstone is a complete MTG clone with a Warcraft skin on it. 

    :/ No its not, it just copies the health attack system mtg uses

    image
  • Instigator-JonesInstigator-Jones Member UncommonPosts: 530
    If you watch the Blizz video about he genesis of Hearthstone, you'll see Blizz employees playing MTG and using it as a reason/inspiration to create Hearthstone. That said, HEX comes along and tries to fill the gap that MTGOL has left with its horrible port to a digital game.
    It would seem that Wiz could reasonably file suit against the lot if they wanted, just on an intellectual property basis. So HEX must have waaaaay more in common with MTG than what's been revealed here or on the initial suit. THAT said, it reeks of laziness and corporate greed. Imitation IS a form of flattery, Wiz needs to just up their game and put out a decent digital version, up the bar and make it better for the players.
  • redgang1redgang1 Member Posts: 35
    Sadly I didn't even know this game existed until this lawsuit, now I'm actually interested in playing it haha. Is it gonna be F2P'ish like Hearthstone?
  • learnrespectlearnrespect Member UncommonPosts: 12

    Thats a easy one...

     

    1 - Pve

    2 - Escalation Mechanics

    3 - Permanent Stats

    4 - Champions

    5 - Charge Power

    6 - Gem Cards / Equipments

    7 - Threshold ( for exemple u only have um ruby threshold but u can play 2 cards that cost 1 ruby threshold in the same turn )

    8 - Primal Boosters

    9 - Chests as booster rewards ( each time u open a booster u win a chest that u can roll and get items )

    10 - Bunnys :)

    If u want to know more msg me i can tell u more about it

     
  • summitussummitus Member UncommonPosts: 1,414
    Originally posted by Instigator-Jones
    If you watch the Blizz video about he genesis of Hearthstone, you'll see Blizz employees playing MTG and using it as a reason/inspiration to create Hearthstone. That said, HEX comes along and tries to fill the gap that MTGOL has left with its horrible port to a digital game.
    It would seem that Wiz could reasonably file suit against the lot if they wanted, just on an intellectual property basis. So HEX must have waaaaay more in common with MTG than what's been revealed here or on the initial suit. THAT said, it reeks of laziness and corporate greed. Imitation IS a form of flattery, Wiz needs to just up their game and put out a decent digital version, up the bar and make it better for the players.

    I have just finished watching some youtube video's of Hex in action and sure there are some basic similarities , but overall it looks like its own game to me , the devs are also very passionate about their game.

    All Wotc do is churn out the same shit year after year ( and don't even get me started about the POS that is Duels of the Paneswalkers ) .. its seems they are a little pissed because someone has come along and made a better game than they have ever made ( Digitally I mean ) there is nothing wrong with the physical game of Mtg.

    I getting sick of this absurdity in copyrighting everything they can think of, the way its going I might get sued for painting my fucking house yellow if someone else has already painted theirs yellow ... sigh companies and greed .. it sucks big time.

     

    Oh yeah and to Wotc , If I don't get to play this Great game  because of you assholes , I'll publicly burn my Collection of Magic Cards , take a dump on the ashes and post to the video to youtube  ... 

    ...... but oh wait I'd better not ,  they might sue me for having the same coloured turds as them.  ;)

  • learnrespectlearnrespect Member UncommonPosts: 12

    u can´t take a dump because ppl already did :(

     

  • NephaeriusNephaerius Member UncommonPosts: 1,671
    They literally took mtg and changed some names for things. It's a pretty bad case for hex... read the lawsuit. ....

    Steam: Neph

  • ArakaziArakazi Member UncommonPosts: 911

    I'm a backer. I wish I could say I'm surprised but I'm not. At a casual glance there are a lot of similarities between the two games. But there are a lot of differences other than the aesthetics, but if these differences are enough for Cryptozonic to win their case is another matter, but Cryptozonic seem to believe they have enough to win otherwise they would of settled before the case got this far. But neither company will enjoy their day in court. I have been through a very similar experience and won our case; despite winning, the media and PR backlash throughout the trial and to a lesser extent even after the trial was horrendous. My advice to both parties would be to do all you can to settle this before it gets to court, because even if you are in the right side you, or company won't enjoy their time in the dock.

    On another note: Hex is the game that Wizard of the Coast should of made years ago. WotC have been too complacent about the digital market. I live in a small town and therefore it's very difficult for me to get a game set up to play Magic. Although I enjoy Magic 2014. Their online version of MtG is poor and for casual players like myself it's difficult to get a good matchup. Hex was the perfect solution for me with it's dungeons, raids and PvE along with the classic matchups. I will be bitterly disappointed with both companies if this buries Hex.

  • bbbb42bbbb42 Member UncommonPosts: 297
    I will say this MTG online sucks so bad their layout is total crap, It's so bad that I am continually surprised people actually play it. Even duelingnetwork and DevPro (YGOPRO) put mtg online to shame and those are free lol.
     

    image
  • itchmonitchmon Member RarePosts: 1,999

    HEX was made by someone (alan comer) in the magic hall of fame, but, while it's clearly inspired by MTG, hex is very different, due to its being developed with online play in mind.  therefore you can do things like shuffle tokens into the deck, and permanently "socket" cards to customize them, neither of which you do in MTG.

     

    the WoW card game is 10 bazillion times more MTGlike than Hex (though the same company makes both WoW ccg and hex)

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  • GinazGinaz Member RarePosts: 2,470
    For people who are saying Hex is too similar to Magic let me say this again because you obviously didn't read my earlier post. You CAN NOT copyright an idea. Copyright laws allow for similar games to be made. Having 5 coloured resources? That's an idea. Having each player with 20 hp's? That's an idea, too.

    Is a man not entitled to the herp of his derp?

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  • ArakaziArakazi Member UncommonPosts: 911
    Originally posted by Ginaz
    For people who are saying Hex is too similar to Magic let me say this again because you obviously didn't read my earlier post. You CAN NOT copyright an idea. Copyright laws allow for similar games to be made. Having 5 coloured resources? That's an idea. Having each player with 20 hp's? That's an idea, too.

    That's more of a set of rules than an idea.

  • GinazGinaz Member RarePosts: 2,470
    Originally posted by Arakazi
    Originally posted by Ginaz
    For people who are saying Hex is too similar to Magic let me say this again because you obviously didn't read my earlier post. You CAN NOT copyright an idea. Copyright laws allow for similar games to be made. Having 5 coloured resources? That's an idea. Having each player with 20 hp's? That's an idea, too.

    That's more of a set of rules than an idea.

    How do you come up with the rules of a game in the first place?

    Is a man not entitled to the herp of his derp?

    Remember, I live in a world where juggalos and yugioh players are real things.

  • FlawSGIFlawSGI Member UncommonPosts: 1,379
    Originally posted by Gadareth

    Ok to make this simpler how exactly is Hex DIFFERENT from MTG ? Give me 10 points which Hex has which MTG doesnt ...

     

     

    Ok I'll Bite. This is off the top of my head and what I know of so far.

     

    1) Dungeons

    2)  Champions 

    3) Gear for said champions

    4) Cards that level permanently

    5) Card sockets

    6) Created characters

    7) Guilds 

    8) Auction house for trading (I know you could do this in MTG by trading with friends or at shops but it is still different in that this creates and economy).

    9) Exploration 

    10) Co op 

    I'll stop there. To put it bluntly, HEX will offer a lot of PVE game-play that no other game has and that is where a lot of the differences can be found. I have played many TCG's like  WoW TCG, Warcry, Warlord, Yugio, Naruto, and L5R that share many similarities with MtG but each stood out enough on its own to overlook the similarities. I feel Hex does as well aside from the obvious stuff like the health pool, tapping of cards (which just about every TCG that I have played does), resource pools, and the fact that the colors also follw MTG (red = direct damage, black = death, ect). I was a fan of MtG for years and still play it to this day with my close friends, but they live in another state so Hex will offer us something that is similar enough that we enjoy it without being so close that we have that been there done that feeling. 

    RIP Jimmy "The Rev" Sullivan and Paul Gray.

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