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A thought or two about subscriptions [mod edit]

SeelinnikoiSeelinnikoi LONDONPosts: 661Member Uncommon

There are a lot of people on this site that very often complain about subscriptions to MMORPG's and they feel they dont want to pay to play...

[mod edit]

What is really the excuse of people hating subscriptions so much?

The only plausible reason would be that a monthly commitment would make them feel they wasted if they did not play all that frequently... but then again, if you manage to play at lease 2-3 hours of entertainment time per month from your MMO subscription, then you already had much more entertainment (price per minute/hour) than, for example, going to watch a movie or a concert...

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Comments

  • TheLizardbonesTheLizardbones Arkham, VAPosts: 10,910Member

    The only necessary, plausible reason is that they do not want to pay a subscription.  It need not go any further than that.

     

    **

     

    Edit : Comma.

    I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  • apocolusterapocoluster newport news, VAPosts: 1,321Member Uncommon
    50 cents a day ain't expensive. Free is even cheaper though.

    No matter how cynical you become, its never enough to keep up - Lily Tomlin

  • PemminPemmin Posts: 340Member Uncommon

    People are entitled to their opinions, if they don't like the payment model then they don't like the payment model deal with it.

    granted seeing people complain about the payment model when a game has one they don't agree with is annoying.....but that works both ways and isn't limited to the p2p haters only.

  • RobokappRobokapp Dublin, OHPosts: 5,205Member Uncommon

    MMO staying power and replayability is so low lately that we feel skeptical making a financial investment.

     

    also, voting with our wallets and such. Paying for mediocre games supports development of mediocre games.

    image

  • korent1991korent1991 CakovecPosts: 1,390Member
    Originally posted by Seelinnikoi

    There are a lot of people on this site that very often complain about subscriptions to MMORPG's and they feel they dont want to pay to play...

    For those people, have you ever considered that maybe, just maybe, you should rather be working or looking for a means of earning money, in order to pay for your own entertainment?

    These are the people that complain that 15 bucks is too much for a potential whole month of entertainment, and yet they dont realise that if they just went out there to do some menial job they could be earning at the very least those 15 bucks in two hours work!

    What is really the excuse of people hating subscriptions so much?

    The only plausible reason would be that a monthly commitment would make them feel they wasted if they did not play all that frequently... but then again, if you manage to play at lease 2-3 hours of entertainment time per month from your MMO subscription, then you already had much more entertainment (price per minute/hour) than, for example, going to watch a movie or a concert...

    The hate for subscription models mostly comes (atleast from my perspective) because the price tag isn't really justified by the content you get every 2-3 months and when you do get new content it's mostly in a form of expansion which you then have to pay for as well even tho you were paying 1 year of subscription.

    I could even dare to say that if developers would justify the price of their subscription and box prices there wouldn't be such an outrage when a company announces they'll have a monthly sub + box price + expansion box prices (in most cases). Hell, nowadays we're getting half finished games with game breaking / progress blocking bugs on release day of mmorpgs and then they want you to pay a monthly sub while they are fixing those issues when you can't even play.

    Even that might be OK if I'd get a fresh new content every 3-4 months (since if you calculate 15$ a month in 3-4 months is 45-60$, which is the price tag I payed for the initial content of the game). I don't care about things like paying to keep the infrastructure running or stuff like that because I'm not a charity and I pay to keep myself entertained and thus I don't find repeating content for 9-12 months over and over as fun and entertaining. Oh yeah, and as I mentioned, when you do get that new content you then have to pay for it again. The only game which I know is doing it right is EVE (and Rift had the same thing going) with free expansions.

    It's not about if you HAVE money, it's about if you think the sub is WORTH THE MONEY! There's a difference and a huge one for that matter.

     

    "Happiness is not a destination. It is a method of life."
    -------------------------------

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  • tom_goretom_gore TamperePosts: 1,796Member Uncommon

    Easy.

    Because I want to pay for what I want, when I want. Not giving money to the developer in hopes of them delivering the content I want.

    Nor do I want to pay the developer 15 bucks just to try out the new stuff they just added. Granted, in many cases sub games offer a "return for free" for a few days.

     

    But it all boils down to choice, really. I could see myself paying a sub for a PvP or a Sandbox game for example (or a PvP Sandbox game). Because if the framework is there, I know I don't have to rely on developer content to keep myself entertained.

     

  • itchmonitchmon west islip, NYPosts: 1,714Member Uncommon
    for me, its easy to pay 2 subs a month but for some it really isn't.  I remember people in WoW who really had to scrape to get their subscription fee together.  Some people who play these games are on a fixed income that doesn't always rise with the prices of their necessities... i remember one friend who was on long-term disability because she completely tore... everything... in one of her knees.  she had a tough life but she was able to escape it a few hours a day playing with us.  but she did always fret about not being able to pay the sub fee.  sometimes she would have to let her sub lapse for a day or two until a check cleared.

    RIP Ribbitribbitt you are missed, kid.

    Currently Playing EVE, DFUW

    Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and not clothed.

    Dwight D Eisenhower

    My optimism wears heavy boots and is loud.

    Henry Rollins

  • Stimos8Stimos8 MelbournePosts: 163Member

    There appear to be 3 types of MMO players, on one hand, there is the intelligent, well educated type, that play them to test their individual intelligence, and to have potential down time - escaping "mentally strenuous" work that they may have to do.

    The second type, is the intelligent, but non-educated, that, play a game, because they need to express their intelligence in some particular way, and since they are not educated, they cannot do it in many other ways.

    The third type of person, is a unintelligent and non-educated individual, that only has one or no, options, to either, work very hard in one particular mind numbingly, boring, yet practical job. The other is to not work at all. This type of person plays computer games only if they are working, or receiving a source of income, as they like to "escape" into a game where everything is equal.

    The first type will play a computer game, as they can afford it and justify a reason to, these players will generally be sub based.

    The second type of person, play a computer game, however they are less likely to justify playing a sub based one and will therefore pick a free to play alternative.

    The third type of person will go one of two ways, either justify spending the money, and play a sub base game, for the complete immersion and experience of "escaping" into that virtual word, and the other way, is that they will not justify the price of a subscription, and go with a free to play alternative.

     

    - Personally preference maybe, but my favorite type of people, are the ones that fit into the first category, henceforth, that is why, I like sub based games.

  • cinoscinos LondonPosts: 963Member
    Originally posted by lizardbones

    The only necessary, plausible reason is that they do not want to pay a subscription.  It need not go any further than that.

     

    **

     

    Edit : Comma.

     

    Nailed it in the first response.

    No conspiracy or deeper reason needed from my eyes.

  • Saur0nSaur0n Denver, COPosts: 113Member Uncommon
    With all the game shut downs in the last 5 years, people don't want to invest their money and time in to something that isn't going to be around long enough to fully enjoy.   
  • serialMMOistserialMMOist Barrie, ONPosts: 88Member
    Originally posted by lizardbones

    The only necessary, plausible reason is that they do not want to pay a subscription.  It need not go any further than that.

     

    **

     

    Edit : Comma.

    To an extent you are right. However they also are judging the source of entertainment and whether or not it warrants a subscription. They think because they have been around forever....paid some dues with subbing to not so good games that they deserve a 'good' game for free. Conversely the younger gamers are used to having free games and now just expect them all to be free because they never paid out sub fees.

    My take is people that can't pay, don't want to pay should look for other forms of entertainment and other games. Its a business model, deal with it. Go post on a forum regarding the price of Gas.

  • barasawabarasawa Eugene, ORPosts: 272Member Uncommon

    Here's a few things for you to think about.

    What if you have been trying to get a job for an extended period of time? Guess what, the job market sucks, and you can't 'just go get a job'. A business posts a single minimum wage position and gets over 300 applicants the first day. Yeah, getting a job isn't that easy in a lot of places, I'm glad you live somewhere that has more jobs than applicants. (Yes, that was sarcasm.)

    I have a job, but damn, after paying for rent, utilities, food, etc, I'm lucky to have anything left. Hate to say it, but minimum wage is a joke if you have to live on it. And the old adage that rent shouldn't be more than 1/3rd of your income is NOT what the market is in most places. If you're on minimum wage, it's way too high for a rat hole. Sure that varies from place to place, but don't assume somebody with a job has oodles of spare cash.

    What if I play more than one game? Let's see. I probably play several hours at a shot, probably several days a week if I play a lot online. But I have a half dozen games I like. Some days I'm in the mood for one thing, another day is something different. I get horribly bored if I keep playing the same thing over and over. So let's see, at $15 for each game, despite the fact that I have limited play time for each of them, that's $90 for those 6 games. That seems kind of high for the playtime I get. What if it's only 2 games, well that's $30, and you only get half the time on each despite paying the full price for both. Doesn't seem right to a lot of people, especially when they do the math.

     

    Sorry OP, but your original statement was a bit, well, short sighted. Try taking in to consideration the situations others may be in, and cross check it with reality.  

    Get a job. Or even the old get a better paying job. Sheesh, if people could easily do that by wanting it there wouldn't be any unemployment or poor people. Too bad the economy doesn't work that way. Heck, it's almost as bad as telling someone they should have been born rich.

    Lost my mind, now trying to lose yours...

  • berenimberenim KasselPosts: 134Member Uncommon

    The coin has so many sides it is rather a dice.

    There are surely several types of players. Those who want everything free, be for lack of money or lack of will to pay. Those who were disappointed more than once by P2P games and therefore deny other games chances. Those who can not justify a sub if they do not have the time. Once again I claim a sub-ladder based on played time with a cap could solve this.

    Of course you can say "50 cent a day", but only if you play every day. I played Anarchy Online, Rift when it was ub based, TSW when it was sub based and many times I found myself paying rather 15 bucks for 6 hours in a month (at least with Rift and TSW, had more time back in AO). So guys like me would pay, but with lack of time price isn't justified. It is not we can't pay, we have the money, we just don't see why to pay when we don't play (I sometimes paid 15 for not even a minute of playtime in some months). BUt I don't go to forums and lament about payment schemes, I just wait and see if a game I'm interested in goes F2P, if not.. Well there are other games.

    There are also those people who would pay any price, regardless of what they get (Whales in F2P games). People whose games were shutdown benath their characters, people who believed in promises and found just a bugfeast and so on. Not willing to sub has many, many reasons, some go together with financial problems, some with no will to pay, some whose gametime sometimes doesn't justify a sub fee, some with higher expectations in quality and so on...

     

    "Get a job" is a poor excuse for an argument and single-sided.

    image

  • GadarethGadareth Westcliff-on-SeaPosts: 313Member
    Originally posted by barasawa

    Here's a few things for you to think about.

    What if you have been trying to get a job for an extended period of time? Guess what, the job market sucks, and you can't 'just go get a job'. A business posts a single minimum wage position and gets over 300 applicants the first day. Yeah, getting a job isn't that easy in a lot of places, I'm glad you live somewhere that has more jobs than applicants. (Yes, that was sarcasm.)

    I have a job, but damn, after paying for rent, utilities, food, etc, I'm lucky to have anything left. Hate to say it, but minimum wage is a joke if you have to live on it. And the old adage that rent shouldn't be more than 1/3rd of your income is NOT what the market is in most places. If you're on minimum wage, it's way too high for a rat hole. Sure that varies from place to place, but don't assume somebody with a job has oodles of spare cash.

    What if I play more than one game? Let's see. I probably play several hours at a shot, probably several days a week if I play a lot online. But I have a half dozen games I like. Some days I'm in the mood for one thing, another day is something different. I get horribly bored if I keep playing the same thing over and over. So let's see, at $15 for each game, despite the fact that I have limited play time for each of them, that's $90 for those 6 games. That seems kind of high for the playtime I get. What if it's only 2 games, well that's $30, and you only get half the time on each despite paying the full price for both. Doesn't seem right to a lot of people, especially when they do the math.

     

    Sorry OP, but your original statement was a bit, well, short sighted. Try taking in to consideration the situations others may be in, and cross check it with reality.  

    Get a job. Or even the old get a better paying job. Sheesh, if people could easily do that by wanting it there wouldn't be any unemployment or poor people. Too bad the economy doesn't work that way. Heck, it's almost as bad as telling someone they should have been born rich.

    Sorry in your case stop playing games you can't afford spend that time increasing your prospects looking for a better job. Once you have that better paying job sit back crack open that beer you can now afford eat that steak dinner you can now afford play that video game you can now afford.

    If you cannot afford $15 a month then you really should not be playing these games you should be working on improving your situation. (This is even more apparent when you start wanting to play multiple mmorpgs seriously get a grip if you can't afford it DON'T DO IT and maybe seek professional help with your addiction.)

    I have been in that position and trust me getting out of it took a lot of work and time but ultimately worth it.

     

  • DMKanoDMKano Gamercentral, AKPosts: 8,506Member Uncommon

    There are several issues with subscriptions:

    1. It's not only the sub it's usually the initial $60+ and then $15 per month. If games started at $15 per month (month 1) and didn't have the "box" price - it wouldn't be so bad. Or if you are going to charge $60 up front - give people 4 months of play time.

    2. Coming back sucks - lets say a subscription game has a new patch that you want to check out - you MUST pay $15 - and maybe you'll only play for 15 minutes and find out that you hate the new patch, you feel cheated. Why not give everyone 15min free every month so people can try to see if they like the changes?

    3. Some people just don't like subscriptions - some prefer to pay a la carte - I can tell you how much I HATE my TV subscription - I pay a flat fee for all these "packages" out of which I only have interest in 2 shows - and they give me like 200 channels that I never care for!

    I'd KILL for the ability to only pay for TV shows I want - why can't I just buy a season of Game of Thrones, or True Detective - why must I get the whole channels?

    Same goes with games - people like the idea of paying only for things they actually play in games.

     

    So it's not that people *cannot* pay them - the title is wrong - it's people "don't want to" pay them, and imo - for valid reasons

     

  • Saur0nSaur0n Denver, COPosts: 113Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Gadareth
    Originally posted by barasawa

    Here's a few things for you to think about.

    What if you have been trying to get a job for an extended period of time? Guess what, the job market sucks, and you can't 'just go get a job'. A business posts a single minimum wage position and gets over 300 applicants the first day. Yeah, getting a job isn't that easy in a lot of places, I'm glad you live somewhere that has more jobs than applicants. (Yes, that was sarcasm.)

    I have a job, but damn, after paying for rent, utilities, food, etc, I'm lucky to have anything left. Hate to say it, but minimum wage is a joke if you have to live on it. And the old adage that rent shouldn't be more than 1/3rd of your income is NOT what the market is in most places. If you're on minimum wage, it's way too high for a rat hole. Sure that varies from place to place, but don't assume somebody with a job has oodles of spare cash.

    What if I play more than one game? Let's see. I probably play several hours at a shot, probably several days a week if I play a lot online. But I have a half dozen games I like. Some days I'm in the mood for one thing, another day is something different. I get horribly bored if I keep playing the same thing over and over. So let's see, at $15 for each game, despite the fact that I have limited play time for each of them, that's $90 for those 6 games. That seems kind of high for the playtime I get. What if it's only 2 games, well that's $30, and you only get half the time on each despite paying the full price for both. Doesn't seem right to a lot of people, especially when they do the math.

     

    Sorry OP, but your original statement was a bit, well, short sighted. Try taking in to consideration the situations others may be in, and cross check it with reality.  

    Get a job. Or even the old get a better paying job. Sheesh, if people could easily do that by wanting it there wouldn't be any unemployment or poor people. Too bad the economy doesn't work that way. Heck, it's almost as bad as telling someone they should have been born rich.

    Sorry in your case stop playing games you can't afford spend that time increasing your prospects looking for a better job. Once you have that better paying job sit back crack open that beer you can now afford eat that steak dinner you can now afford play that video game you can now afford.

    If you cannot afford $15 a month then you really should not be playing these games you should be working on improving your situation. (This is even more apparent when you start wanting to play multiple mmorpgs seriously get a grip if you can't afford it DON'T DO IT and maybe seek professional help with your addiction.)

    I have been in that position and trust me getting out of it took a lot of work and time but ultimately worth it.

     

    In what country are we talking about here?  

  • WindamereWindamere Salisbury, NCPosts: 59Member

    Thats just it in a nutshell - It's never really "JUST" $15/month....

    The game itself usually starts on the market at $59.99 until sales drop and so does price all the way down to $19.99 in most cases.

    (which means that is actually what it's worth and company could have sold for without losing money)

    Then you pay the subscription of 15/mo -- $180.00/year

    So there's $239.00 out of your pocket for the first year..

    Expansions - yep pay for those too most times as high as 29.99 or 39.99 - lets say the expansion does actually happen within the first year at $39.99 ok so thats $279.99 for the first year...

    Then you have the cash shop or on some MMO's the Pay to win shop (example: chest key's - to open the cool loot chest only place you can get the key is from cash shop) Person's prerogative on how much they spend....

     

    Now I know some of you are going to say well wait thats only $300.00/year - yeah less than $1.00/day

    But others of us like myself for instance - I'm a retired Persian Gulf war Veteran with Kid still in High School (Thank god graduating this year) on a fixed income and I just so happen to like to play games with my time while sitting at home...And while I'm not hurting for cash I do have to limit what I can spend each month as with most "responsible" people...

    So in the meantime you have companies loading up their cash cow's and charging people just to get into Alpha's and Beta's for games that will eventually be or already are Free to play games.....ridiculous..

     

  • LyrianLyrian Posts: 292Member Uncommon

    I think of subscriptions as living in a gated community. You have a fixed cost to play the game that does not change or buy you any other additional advantages in the game. Everything you or any other players have is a result of the effort you put in. It keeps the 'rift-raff' out. Those who aren't willing to put in the time into the game and the community, expecting to be handed everything if they fork out some money.

    I'm am curious if a developer  will jump on the 'premium subscription' model, charging more than the traditional 14.99 a month to cater to a more elite crowd that is willing to pay more for a better game. But that in the end would depend on the quality of the game itself.

    Considering that a single day of commuting to work for me, costs more than a monthly subscription. I am more concerned about the quality of the game than anything else.

  • DerrosDerros Posts: 1,076Member Uncommon

    its more the fact that I cant/dont want to devote as much time that I feel is neccissary to each one, in order to justify paying a subscription.  Its better to have one and a F2P on the side I can jump in and out of, and maybe drop $5-10 here and there as I see fit.

     

    *edit* oops, I thought this thread was about having 2 subscriptions XD

  • st3v3b0st3v3b0 Gainesville, FLPosts: 147Member Uncommon

    Money is not the problem.  It is the feeling of obligation to put time into the game when I do not have the time to spare.  I'd almost rather purchase a small block of hours for the weeks I do have ample time to play that way on the weeks I do not have much (or any) I don't feel bad for paying for something I am not utilizing.

    The whole argument of $0.50 a day is crap too.  The real amount is the subscription cost divided by the number of days you actually play.  While that still does not boil down to a lot of money it is still a more accurate representation of the amount of money you are paying with utilizing the game.

  • askdabossaskdaboss LondonPosts: 631Member

    Aside from a lot of really good answers as to why people would not want to pay a subscription, there is also a psychological effect associated with the commitment of a recurring subscription that makes it harder for me to justify it.

     

    In fact, I often paid more/equivalent money in games that do not require a subscription - but I felt it was at my own pace.

    And with these non sub games, I am always paying *after* a week or two of gaming to give back to the game I enjoyed playing.

    Never or rarely *before* - since I'm not really able to know if I will be able to play the following month or not (or if the game will keep me interested for that long).

  • mgilbrtsnmgilbrtsn belleville, ILPosts: 1,702Member Uncommon

    I don't necessarily believe that they can't pay, but have more of a philosophical problem with it.  I prefer PtP, but many truly believe that FtP is the best model.  There is also a segment that is young and simply can't get jobs or earn money.  For them, FtP is a Win/Win.

     

     

    Concentrate on enjoying yourself, and not on why I shouldn't enjoy myself.

  • Swids2010Swids2010 plymouthPosts: 244Member

    I don't think it so much comes down to being able to afford it. For example I could quite happily afford to pay many subscriptions and have done in the past my problem comes down to this if I'm paying a subscription there are basics things I expect to receive as part of that subscription and If I don't receive them then I will vote with my wallet sick to death of mediocre games trying to get you to subscribe. GW2 set a bench mark for me if they can produce something of that quality for free then I'm not willing to subscribe unless I feel it offers far more than GW2.

    Just a few things I consider are a must if your charging a subscription

    GM support and I mean ingame GM's I will not except having to create a total separate account on another website to get any support. If I'm paying you money I expect in game GM's doing there jobs.

    Bugs and fix's I expect there to be maintenance at least once a week and for the dev team to actively be squashing and fixing bugs and if they cant fix them at least keep people informed of what the help is happening.

    I expect rampant bots and goldsellers to be dealt with swiftly this comes back to GM's in game GM's help a lot with this.

    The list could go on and on. Its simple if you expect people to give you a subscription fee then you should be providing a top notch service.

    image
  • ShamorauShamorau melbournePosts: 173Member Uncommon
    i put it this way. if i go to see a movie, thats at least $20 (rounded up), for only 90-120 minutes of entertainment. same for going to see a comedian or something of the like. so to pay $15 for a months entertainment to me is cheap. but i refuse to play pay to win games. that pretty much includes everything with a cash shop at the moment.
  • GadarethGadareth Westcliff-on-SeaPosts: 313Member
    Originally posted by Swids2010

    I don't think it so much comes down to being able to afford it. For example I could quite happily afford to pay many subscriptions and have done in the past my problem comes down to this if I'm paying a subscription there are basics things I expect to receive as part of that subscription and If I don't receive them then I will vote with my wallet sick to death of mediocre games trying to get you to subscribe. GW2 set a bench mark for me if they can produce something of that quality for free then I'm not willing to subscribe unless I feel it offers far more than GW2.

    Just a few things I consider are a must if your charging a subscription

    GM support and I mean ingame GM's I will not except having to create a total separate account on another website to get any support. If I'm paying you money I expect in game GM's doing there jobs.

    Bugs and fix's I expect there to be maintenance at least once a week and for the dev team to actively be squashing and fixing bugs and if they cant fix them at least keep people informed of what the help is happening.

    I expect rampant bots and goldsellers to be dealt with swiftly this comes back to GM's in game GM's help a lot with this.

    The list could go on and on. Its simple if you expect people to give you a subscription fee then you should be providing a top notch service.

    This I can agree with if your paying a subscription fee I do expect that a portion of that fee is allocated to support such as GMS, Development for new content etc.

     

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