Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Fuzzy Avatars Solved! Please re-upload your avatar if it was fuzzy!

Hidden Subscriber Benefits?

nachofootnachofoot Kennesaw, GAPosts: 119Member

So I decided to try this game out prior to the upcoming expansion.  However, I noticed that RE'ing a crafted item now has a 10% chance of a schematic instead of 20%.

 

I was positive I was getting 20% before but now I'm not a subscriber.  Is this some sort of hidden subscriber benefit or was it changed?

«13

Comments

  • reeereeereeereee Posts: 1,206Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by nachofoot

    So I decided to try this game out prior to the upcoming expansion.  However, I noticed that RE'ing a crafted item now has a 10% chance of a schematic instead of 20%.

     

    I was positive I was getting 20% before but now I'm not a subscriber.  Is this some sort of hidden subscriber benefit or was it changed?

    Correct, also if you're not a subscriber the crit rate on gathering missions is so low they're not even worth bothering with, as you can usually buy the non crit mats for less than the mission costs on the AH.

  • nachofootnachofoot Kennesaw, GAPosts: 119Member
    Originally posted by reeereee

    Correct, also if you're not a subscriber the crit rate on gathering missions is so low they're not even worth bothering with, as you can usually buy the non crit mats for less than the mission costs on the AH.

     

    I didn't think they would be so dumb enough to hide pay2win features but I am now amazed.  Only a coward would nerf you behind your back.

     

    Makes it much easier to uninstall and never look back.

  • DeathsmindDeathsmind Newbury Park, CAPosts: 180Member
    Thats not pay to win. Thats buffs for helping the company. You can get the same stuff from not being a subscriber it just takes longer. 
  • TyggsTyggs Syracuse, NYPosts: 412Member Common
    Originally posted by nachofoot
    Originally posted by reeereee

    Correct, also if you're not a subscriber the crit rate on gathering missions is so low they're not even worth bothering with, as you can usually buy the non crit mats for less than the mission costs on the AH.

     

    I didn't think they would be so dumb enough to hide pay2win features but I am now amazed.

     

    Oh well...makes it much easier to uninstall and never look back.

    What are you winning? You can craft the same things without paying a dime. Oh, wait, you don't know what pay to win means... carry on.

    SWTOR Referral Link

    Free Goodies for new or returning players.

    See what it gets you Here

  • Elevenb4Elevenb4 CajamarcaPosts: 282Member Uncommon
    It's always cracks me up when people complain about the free stuff being offered by a company. Especially when you can get it all for $15. Complaining about limitations of the free side when to get it all costs $15...... I just dont' understand people. We used to call them cheapskates. The game is a great game. I'm not even playing it atm, but I'm subbing because I enjoy supporting the game. 

    -Unconstitutional laws aren't laws.-

  • reeereeereeereee Posts: 1,206Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Tyggs
    Originally posted by nachofoot
    Originally posted by reeereee

    Correct, also if you're not a subscriber the crit rate on gathering missions is so low they're not even worth bothering with, as you can usually buy the non crit mats for less than the mission costs on the AH.

     

    I didn't think they would be so dumb enough to hide pay2win features but I am now amazed.

     

    Oh well...makes it much easier to uninstall and never look back.

    What are you winning? You can craft the same things without paying a dime. Oh, wait, you don't know what pay to win means... carry on.

    I believe he's talking about what p2w would look like for crafters.  I mean seriously, imagine what it would be like if non-subscribers weren't allowed to crit in PvP?  Would that not be pay to win?  In fact more pay to win than you see in almost any mmo?  Why is it ok for crafting but not other aspects of the game? 

  • TyggsTyggs Syracuse, NYPosts: 412Member Common
    Originally posted by reeereee
    Originally posted by Tyggs
    Originally posted by nachofoot
    Originally posted by reeereee

    Correct, also if you're not a subscriber the crit rate on gathering missions is so low they're not even worth bothering with, as you can usually buy the non crit mats for less than the mission costs on the AH.

     

    I didn't think they would be so dumb enough to hide pay2win features but I am now amazed.

     

    Oh well...makes it much easier to uninstall and never look back.

    What are you winning? You can craft the same things without paying a dime. Oh, wait, you don't know what pay to win means... carry on.

    I believe he's talking about what p2w would look like for crafters.  I mean seriously, imagine what it would be like if non-subscribers weren't allowed to crit in PvP?  Would that not be pay to win?  In fact more pay to win than you see in almost any mmo?  Why is it ok for crafting but not other aspects of the game? 

    But... you aren't in competition with anyone when crafting, you just do it at a slower pace. It would be more like non-subs walk 5% slowing when doing PVE combat. You do it slower, but who cares, you are doing the same thing for free.

    SWTOR Referral Link

    Free Goodies for new or returning players.

    See what it gets you Here

  • syriinxsyriinx New York, NYPosts: 1,063Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by nachofoot
    Originally posted by reeereee

    Correct, also if you're not a subscriber the crit rate on gathering missions is so low they're not even worth bothering with, as you can usually buy the non crit mats for less than the mission costs on the AH.

     

    I didn't think they would be so dumb enough to hide pay2win features but I am now amazed.

     

    Oh well...makes it much easier to uninstall and never look back.

    Its only pay2win if you have to pay above the sub.

    f2p is, and should be, the poverty version of the game.  SWTOR's model is decent, lenient enough that you can effectively play the game but subbing is king and if you are subbed you can 100% ignore the cash shop.  

    Its not like crafting is a big factor in SWTOR anyway

  • reeereeereeereee Posts: 1,206Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Tyggs
    Originally posted by reeereee
    Originally posted by Tyggs
    Originally posted by nachofoot
    Originally posted by reeereee

    Correct, also if you're not a subscriber the crit rate on gathering missions is so low they're not even worth bothering with, as you can usually buy the non crit mats for less than the mission costs on the AH.

     

    I didn't think they would be so dumb enough to hide pay2win features but I am now amazed.

     

    Oh well...makes it much easier to uninstall and never look back.

    What are you winning? You can craft the same things without paying a dime. Oh, wait, you don't know what pay to win means... carry on.

    I believe he's talking about what p2w would look like for crafters.  I mean seriously, imagine what it would be like if non-subscribers weren't allowed to crit in PvP?  Would that not be pay to win?  In fact more pay to win than you see in almost any mmo?  Why is it ok for crafting but not other aspects of the game? 

    But... you aren't in competition with anyone when crafting, you just do it at a slower pace. It would be more like non-subs walk 5% slowing when doing PVE combat. You do it slower, but who cares, you are doing the same thing for free.

    Not being able to crit is much more than a 5% loss on what you can do crafting wise, it would be more akin to a 30% speed debuff, which people would legitimately complain about.

     

    Let's say PvP or Huttball is like virtual sports and you see that as competition, then what is crafting?  It's more or less a virtual business.  The idea that you somehow see virtual sporting as a form of competition but virtual business not a form of competition speaks to a lack of prospective.

  • TyggsTyggs Syracuse, NYPosts: 412Member Common
    Originally posted by reeereee
    Originally posted by Tyggs
    Originally posted by reeereee
    Originally posted by Tyggs
    Originally posted by nachofoot
    Originally posted by reeereee

    Correct, also if you're not a subscriber the crit rate on gathering missions is so low they're not even worth bothering with, as you can usually buy the non crit mats for less than the mission costs on the AH.

     

    I didn't think they would be so dumb enough to hide pay2win features but I am now amazed.

     

    Oh well...makes it much easier to uninstall and never look back.

    What are you winning? You can craft the same things without paying a dime. Oh, wait, you don't know what pay to win means... carry on.

    I believe he's talking about what p2w would look like for crafters.  I mean seriously, imagine what it would be like if non-subscribers weren't allowed to crit in PvP?  Would that not be pay to win?  In fact more pay to win than you see in almost any mmo?  Why is it ok for crafting but not other aspects of the game? 

    But... you aren't in competition with anyone when crafting, you just do it at a slower pace. It would be more like non-subs walk 5% slowing when doing PVE combat. You do it slower, but who cares, you are doing the same thing for free.

    Not being able to crit is much more than a 5% loss on what you can do crafting wise, it would be more akin to a 30% speed debuff, which people would legitimately complain about.

     

    Let's say PvP or Huttball is like virtual sports and you see that as competition, then what is crafting?  It's more or less a virtual business.  The idea that you somehow see virtual sporting as a form of competition but virtual business not a form of competition speaks to a lack of prospective.

    My perspective is fine. PVP is a legitimate activity for progression. Crafting in SWTOR is not. To say otherwise speaks to your knowledge of the game. Crafting is a side game that you manage your companions with. Crafting has very little bearing on the in game market. To say crafting in SWTOR is competitive is silly. To call it P2W is ridiculous. 

    SWTOR Referral Link

    Free Goodies for new or returning players.

    See what it gets you Here

  • TorvalTorval Oregon CountryPosts: 7,221Member Uncommon

    There are several paywall type of sub benefits to the game and it's not my favorite model, but subbing does unlock the game and I like that. I don't care if it's pay to win or not. That slogan is so overused it's getting sick.

    TOR is not a game I will play a lot unsubbed, but I'll throw $15 - $30 at them every once in a while to play Star Wars and enjoy myself.

  • reeereeereeereee Posts: 1,206Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Tyggs
    Originally posted by reeereee
    Originally posted by Tyggs
    Originally posted by reeereee
    Originally posted by Tyggs
    Originally posted by nachofoot
    Originally posted by reeereee

    Correct, also if you're not a subscriber the crit rate on gathering missions is so low they're not even worth bothering with, as you can usually buy the non crit mats for less than the mission costs on the AH.

     

    I didn't think they would be so dumb enough to hide pay2win features but I am now amazed.

     

    Oh well...makes it much easier to uninstall and never look back.

    What are you winning? You can craft the same things without paying a dime. Oh, wait, you don't know what pay to win means... carry on.

    I believe he's talking about what p2w would look like for crafters.  I mean seriously, imagine what it would be like if non-subscribers weren't allowed to crit in PvP?  Would that not be pay to win?  In fact more pay to win than you see in almost any mmo?  Why is it ok for crafting but not other aspects of the game? 

    But... you aren't in competition with anyone when crafting, you just do it at a slower pace. It would be more like non-subs walk 5% slowing when doing PVE combat. You do it slower, but who cares, you are doing the same thing for free.

    Not being able to crit is much more than a 5% loss on what you can do crafting wise, it would be more akin to a 30% speed debuff, which people would legitimately complain about.

     

    Let's say PvP or Huttball is like virtual sports and you see that as competition, then what is crafting?  It's more or less a virtual business.  The idea that you somehow see virtual sporting as a form of competition but virtual business not a form of competition speaks to a lack of prospective.

    My perspective is fine. PVP is a legitimate activity for progression. Crafting in SWTOR is not. To say otherwise speaks to your knowledge of the game. Crafting is a side game that you manage your companions with. Crafting has very little bearing on the in game market. To say crafting in SWTOR is competitive is silly. To call it P2W is ridiculous. 

    Then, of course, you would understand why someone who just wanted to do some casual crafting would decided to uninstall the game.

  • TyggsTyggs Syracuse, NYPosts: 412Member Common
    Originally posted by reeereee
    Originally posted by Tyggs
    Originally posted by reeereee
    Originally posted by Tyggs
    Originally posted by reeereee
    Originally posted by Tyggs
    Originally posted by nachofoot
    Originally posted by reeereee

    Correct, also if you're not a subscriber the crit rate on gathering missions is so low they're not even worth bothering with, as you can usually buy the non crit mats for less than the mission costs on the AH.

     

    I didn't think they would be so dumb enough to hide pay2win features but I am now amazed.

     

    Oh well...makes it much easier to uninstall and never look back.

    What are you winning? You can craft the same things without paying a dime. Oh, wait, you don't know what pay to win means... carry on.

    I believe he's talking about what p2w would look like for crafters.  I mean seriously, imagine what it would be like if non-subscribers weren't allowed to crit in PvP?  Would that not be pay to win?  In fact more pay to win than you see in almost any mmo?  Why is it ok for crafting but not other aspects of the game? 

    But... you aren't in competition with anyone when crafting, you just do it at a slower pace. It would be more like non-subs walk 5% slowing when doing PVE combat. You do it slower, but who cares, you are doing the same thing for free.

    Not being able to crit is much more than a 5% loss on what you can do crafting wise, it would be more akin to a 30% speed debuff, which people would legitimately complain about.

     

    Let's say PvP or Huttball is like virtual sports and you see that as competition, then what is crafting?  It's more or less a virtual business.  The idea that you somehow see virtual sporting as a form of competition but virtual business not a form of competition speaks to a lack of prospective.

    My perspective is fine. PVP is a legitimate activity for progression. Crafting in SWTOR is not. To say otherwise speaks to your knowledge of the game. Crafting is a side game that you manage your companions with. Crafting has very little bearing on the in game market. To say crafting in SWTOR is competitive is silly. To call it P2W is ridiculous. 

    Then, of course, you would understand why someone who just wanted to do some casual crafting would decided to uninstall the game.

    Not at all. Infact, if all you wanted to do is craft, SWTOR has NO wall there for free players. You can craft any Item available. It may take a bit longer as a free player, but what is your rush? There is no competition in crafting in SWTOR.

    SWTOR Referral Link

    Free Goodies for new or returning players.

    See what it gets you Here

  • DamonVileDamonVile Vancouver, BCPosts: 4,818Member
    Originally posted by Torvaldr

    There are several paywall type of sub benefits to the game and it's not my favorite model, but subbing does unlock the game and I like that. I don't care if it's pay to win or not. That slogan is so overused it's getting sick.

    TOR is not a game I will play a lot unsubbed, but I'll throw $15 - $30 at them every once in a while to play Star Wars and enjoy myself.

    +1

    P2W pretty much means " what I have to spend money???!!! " 

  • reeereeereeereee Posts: 1,206Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by DamonVile
    Originally posted by Torvaldr

    There are several paywall type of sub benefits to the game and it's not my favorite model, but subbing does unlock the game and I like that. I don't care if it's pay to win or not. That slogan is so overused it's getting sick.

    TOR is not a game I will play a lot unsubbed, but I'll throw $15 - $30 at them every once in a while to play Star Wars and enjoy myself.

    +1

    P2W pretty much means " what I have to spend money???!!! " 

    Ok, ok, SWTOR's model is like 100 times better than PWE games where the person who dropped $10k in the cash shop would go around crushing everyone in PvP. 

     

    The only real problem is that Tera came along where I experience virtually zero negative effects from not spending a dime so it's hard not to be judgemental sometimes.

  • DamonVileDamonVile Vancouver, BCPosts: 4,818Member
    Originally posted by reeereee
    Originally posted by DamonVile
    Originally posted by Torvaldr

    There are several paywall type of sub benefits to the game and it's not my favorite model, but subbing does unlock the game and I like that. I don't care if it's pay to win or not. That slogan is so overused it's getting sick.

    TOR is not a game I will play a lot unsubbed, but I'll throw $15 - $30 at them every once in a while to play Star Wars and enjoy myself.

    +1

    P2W pretty much means " what I have to spend money???!!! " 

    Ok, ok, SWTOR's model is like 100 times better than PWE games where the person who dropped $10k in the cash shop would go around crushing everyone in PvP. 

     

    The only real problem is that Tera came along where I experience virtually zero negative effects from not spending a dime so it's hard not to be judgemental sometimes.

    I agree TERA has a great system and I've spent money on the game and enjoy it, but asking for games to not charge anything or expecting them all to be 100% playable with no money at all isn't really asking for better games. It's asking for cheaper ones.

    Not being cheap enough to play isn't really the problem with MMOs right now...imo. 

    P2W arguments never really center around wanting better game play. They come from people wanting cheaper game play and being on a level playing field with those who spend money. So again...even though I don't support true pay to win, it's not the side I want to be on.

  • reeereeereeereee Posts: 1,206Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by DamonVile
    Originally posted by reeereee
    Originally posted by DamonVile
    Originally posted by Torvaldr

    There are several paywall type of sub benefits to the game and it's not my favorite model, but subbing does unlock the game and I like that. I don't care if it's pay to win or not. That slogan is so overused it's getting sick.

    TOR is not a game I will play a lot unsubbed, but I'll throw $15 - $30 at them every once in a while to play Star Wars and enjoy myself.

    +1

    P2W pretty much means " what I have to spend money???!!! " 

    Ok, ok, SWTOR's model is like 100 times better than PWE games where the person who dropped $10k in the cash shop would go around crushing everyone in PvP. 

     

    The only real problem is that Tera came along where I experience virtually zero negative effects from not spending a dime so it's hard not to be judgemental sometimes.

    I agree TERA has a great system and I've spent money on the game and enjoy it, but asking for games to not charge anything or expecting them all to be 100% playable with no money at all isn't really asking for better games. It's asking for cheaper ones.

    Not being cheap enough to play isn't really the problem with MMOs right now...imo. 

    P2W arguments never really center around wanting better game play. They come from people wanting cheaper game play and being on a level playing field with those who spend money. So again...even though I don't support true pay to win, it's not the side I want to be on.

    The problem is going expensive doesn't get you anything either.  The king of subscription mmos is on a 12 month hiatus from adding new content, and when it does get around to adding new content you'll be expected to pay a box fee to access it.  If there was actually someone out there delivering better gameplay for a higher price I would be down, but I just don't see anyone doing it in the current market.
  • Four0SixFour0Six Missoula, MTPosts: 1,181Member Uncommon

    In the beginning Pay 2 Win meant getting weapons that actually had better stats.

     

    LOL

     

    How far we have fallen.

  • tawesstawess LkpgPosts: 2,536Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Four0Six

    In the beginning Pay 2 Win meant getting weapons that actually had better stats.

     

    LOL

     

    How far we have fallen.

    I always try to maintain this as the standard.

     

    Now that is not to say a game can be P2Have fun... And that is almost as bad.

  • reeereeereeereee Posts: 1,206Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Four0Six

    In the beginning Pay 2 Win meant getting weapons that actually had better stats.

     

    LOL

     

    How far we have fallen.

    Oh really, I'm curious exactly which game was this that it originated in?

     

    The first place I ran into pay 2 win was PWI where people would spend into the tens of thousands of dollars in the cash shop to well... win... but there weren't any cash shop only weapons it was more to do with the upgrade system. 

  • Four0SixFour0Six Missoula, MTPosts: 1,181Member Uncommon
    Pay Originally posted by tawess
    Originally posted by Four0Six

    In the beginning Pay 2 Win meant getting weapons that actually had better stats.

     

    LOL

     

    How far we have fallen.

    I always try to maintain this as the standard.

     

     

    Now that is not to say a game can be P2Have fun... And that is almost as bad.

    Pay to have fun is......well to coin a phrase....Pay to have fun is reality....nothing is free.

  • Four0SixFour0Six Missoula, MTPosts: 1,181Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by reeereee
    Originally posted by Four0Six

    In the beginning Pay 2 Win meant getting weapons that actually had better stats.

     

    LOL

     

    How far we have fallen.

    Oh really, I'm curious exactly which game was this that it originated in?

     

    The first place I ran into pay 2 win was PWI where people would spend into the tens of thousands of dollars in the cash shop to well... win... but there weren't any cash shop only weapons it was more to do with the upgrade system. 

     

    Originated in a meta physical sense.

  • tawesstawess LkpgPosts: 2,536Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Four0Six
    Pay Originally posted by tawess
    Originally posted by Four0Six

    In the beginning Pay 2 Win meant getting weapons that actually had better stats.

     

    LOL

     

    How far we have fallen.

    I always try to maintain this as the standard.

     

     

    Now that is not to say a game can be P2Have fun... And that is almost as bad.

    Pay to have fun is......well to coin a phrase....Pay to have fun is reality....nothing is free.

    That is true. And it is in all honesty the only way for things to work today. But i think that is what most people get mixed up when they claim P2W.

  • GableGable Vancouver, BCPosts: 39Member Uncommon

    Alas, I normally love Bioware, and enjoyed my time as a subscriber in SWTOR, but justification for quitting and hoping they fail can be summed up quite simply.

     

    'Hide Helmet' is behind a paywall.  Without a doubt the most classless thing I have ever seen in a game.

  • Po_ggPo_gg Twigwarren, WestfarthingPosts: 2,727Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by reeereee
    Originally posted by DamonVile
    Originally posted by Torvaldr

    There are several paywall type of sub benefits to the game and it's not my favorite model, but subbing does unlock the game and I like that. I don't care if it's pay to win or not. That slogan is so overused it's getting sick.

    TOR is not a game I will play a lot unsubbed, but I'll throw $15 - $30 at them every once in a while to play Star Wars and enjoy myself.

    +1

    Ok, ok, SWTOR's model is like 100 times better than PWE games where the person who dropped $10k in the cash shop would go around crushing everyone in PvP. 

    Nope, actually PWE is better :)

    +1 to Torvaldr, I don't like TOR's model either, played as Preferred since the f2p switch, but in TOR's favor I admit that subbing does unlock the game (and playing strictly as a singleplayer game the model is also mostly ok for Preferred status too). But "subbers get the whole game" is a default setting in freemium games, so that aspect alone doesn't make TOR's a good f2p model.

    Just resubbed last week for the Sky Palace, and as I already wrote in the other thread, the difference between sub and non-sub is huge. OP stated the less crit rate for non-subbers, but there are much more, like the higher mod costs, vendor costs, repair, longer fleet pass and quick travel cooldowns, no med.probe on the field, etc. And these are all just the non-liftable restrictions, unlike the headslot hiding Gable mentioned above (or displaying title, unifiying colors, and many many more) which have a purchase-able store unlock.

    That's why I started with a Nope, in this matter PWE is better, because in those games you don't have any restrictions as a free player. And I agree, that road could be a direct route into p2w territory. On the other hand, TOR is not p2w. Not a good f2p model, but not p2w either, just a "pay if you don't want to get annoyed at every step of your gameplay" one :)

     

     

    Sidequestion (sorry if derailing the thread)

    since days I try to figure out some odd GTN listings. I love to stretch mechanics to their limits, and in some games the AH can be used for shortcutting (like transferring Zen between accounts in those afforementioned PWE games :)  ) but I don't get GTN, and I'm curious what did I miss. There are simply overpricing (like an item posted dozens of times at X, and then there's a few of the same item for 5-10 times X), that's simple, since you can't send money via mail, and f2p's can't even direct trade, it's an easy way to transfer money.

    But. There are Cartel Market items, only valuable for f2p / preferred, way above their cap :) like cargo bay access (only good for f2p) for 400k. Or crew skill slot (for preferred / f2p) for 500k, well beyond both of their cap limits. What's the point? There has to be one, because many other post them for 350k (the cap). I even pm'ed for some posters but they didn't tell.

    Best ones are the escrow. Those are sometimes posted not only above the cap, but even above their worth, like 600k escrow for 800k... so not only preferred / f2p can't buy it, but anyone who's buying it loses 200k right away. I thought maybe someone with two accounts is transferring money from one while burning the stipend Cartel coins on the other, but then it'd be a short-termed listing, while the owner is logging out and buying the item with the second account, and those are up since days... I like to play the trading game in mmo's and these listings confusing me :) any ideas?

«13
Sign In or Register to comment.