What I think carbine will do is exactly what blizzard used to do I would think- they will balance at say 35 man, and let the raids carry a little, but ultra te the big skill check fights - awesome approach IMO.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Also one issue with wow is you need people to jump to timers and watch videos - and they are bang on that they can whack out ungodly hard telegraphs because people can not help but learn these over time - it becomes natural learning.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
i always think arguments like "youre not far enough into it" a bit suspicious...of course lvl 12 isnt far and you probably should give it a bit more time...on the other hand, a game should be fun and interesting most of the time, not just at a certain stage?
Bear in mind in mmorgs the stages are just fundementally different, e.g learning phase, mid levelling phase where you start to really get into your skills and end game.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Again I really hope works for you, I doubt it because for many years playing MMOs, in the last 3-5 I have seen several games pop up with high hopes and they burned down like SWTOR, RIFT etc etc
i pre-ordered the deluxe edition and i had the opportunity to play the game during weekend beta's. This game is nothing new and even though they took elements from other games and rolled it into wildstar I got bored fast. I agree with people that are saying there is nothing fresh here, its true. I expected a lot more from this game. During the beta weekends i created one toon and took him to lvl 10 and couldn't lvl it anymore cuz it was just boring. Someone was saying something about wait till you get to lvl 20 and do the lvl 20 dungeon the game will be better. If you have to wait till lvl 20 to really enjoy the game and if you have to do a dungeon to appreciate the game then the game is junk. For me I think it's going to be just the free month. I know a lot of people are digging the game and hope they have fun with it when it's officially out, but I don't see this replacing any of my other mmo's I play.
Originally posted by sneakerz007 i pre-ordered the deluxe edition and i had the opportunity to play the game during weekend beta's. This game is nothing new and even though they took elements from other games and rolled it into wildstar I got bored fast. I agree with people that are saying there is nothing fresh here, its true. I expected a lot more from this game. During the beta weekends i created one toon and took him to lvl 10 and couldn't lvl it anymore cuz it was just boring. Someone was saying something about wait till you get to lvl 20 and do the lvl 20 dungeon the game will be better. If you have to wait till lvl 20 to really enjoy the game and if you have to do a dungeon to appreciate the game then the game is junk. For me I think it's going to be just the free month. I know a lot of people are digging the game and hope they have fun with it when it's officially out, but I don't see this replacing any of my other mmo's I play.
I really don't like the wait till level 20 thing, tbh, and I am playing it. I think from the very get go, the game shows you whats up, but the issue is some people playing it, are just expecting to be bored, while the people who are liking it, are ready to have fun solo people who are fine with the game and setting/design to be whatever it will, and most likely have a group or community who is ready to enjoy it together.
So I'm saying if you are solo player who is maybe thinking it will be more of the same, or with a group who doesn't want to play it, then its prolly best to skip it, as its a toss up if you will be able to enjoy what it has to offer.
You don't even have to log in to find this out, you know it already. You will not log into a different perspective or community setting. No matter how one might think, that can happen only if a game is super innovative or just how you want it.
Eh? How exactly are you going to see mid game and end game at early levels (20 is simply where your skills start to build up). Mmorgs are not single player games where you see the gameplay at level 1.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Originally posted by Bladestrom Eh? How exactly are you going to see mid game and end game at early levels (20 is simply where your skills start to build up). Mmorgs are not single player games where you see the gameplay at level 1.
Not sure if this is directed at me or not, I have capped 2 chars and have other mid 30s, done the dungeons and vets, IMO the game doesn't become more in depth, it just gets harder if you are not playing it right as you get into the higher levels. But that doesn't change that its the same game even at early levels, if you play it right at early levels for instance things go way faster, like you can level to 10 in like 2-3hrs, if you are not though, it will take maybe 5-6hrs or something crazy.
Originally posted by Bladestrom Eh? How exactly are you going to see mid game and end game at early levels (20 is simply where your skills start to build up). Mmorgs are not single player games where you see the gameplay at level 1.
Not sure if this is directed at me or not, I have capped 2 chars and have other mid 30s, done the dungeons and vets, IMO the game doesn't become more in depth, it just gets harder if you are not playing it right as you get into the higher levels. But that doesn't change that its the same game even at early levels, if you play it right at early levels for instance things go way faster, like you can level to 10 in like 2-3hrs, if you are not though, it will take maybe 5-6hrs or something crazy.
Originally posted by Bladestrom Eh? How exactly are you going to see mid game and end game at early levels (20 is simply where your skills start to build up). Mmorgs are not single player games where you see the gameplay at level 1.
Not sure if this is directed at me or not, I have capped 2 chars and have other mid 30s, done the dungeons and vets, IMO the game doesn't become more in depth, it just gets harder if you are not playing it right as you get into the higher levels. But that doesn't change that its the same game even at early levels, if you play it right at early levels for instance things go way faster, like you can level to 10 in like 2-3hrs, if you are not though, it will take maybe 5-6hrs or something crazy.
Yea we totally believe you.
Well, if there is something you question, please feel free, I'm obviously here and willing to communicate.
I'm not saying that overall the game lacks depth, I do not feel thats the case. I just think from the very start they give you the jist, obviously things get more intense and so on, but its all there.
Originally posted by Bladestrom Eh? How exactly are you going to see mid game and end game at early levels (20 is simply where your skills start to build up). Mmorgs are not single player games where you see the gameplay at level 1.
Then why can't I start at level 20 if 1-19 serves no purpose?
Boycotting EA. Why? They suck, even moreso since 2008.
Originally posted by Bladestrom Eh? How exactly are you going to see mid game and end game at early levels (20 is simply where your skills start to build up). Mmorgs are not single player games where you see the gameplay at level 1.
Then why can't I start at level 20 if 1-19 serves no purpose?
It does server a purpose. It introduces you to the game, the new combat systems, and also serves as a tutorial for those that haven't played MMORPGs before. Yea, those people still exist, and certainly wouldn't keep playing a game if it threw them into content designed for veteran MMORPG players.
Originally posted by Bladestrom Eh? How exactly are you going to see mid game and end game at early levels (20 is simply where your skills start to build up). Mmorgs are not single player games where you see the gameplay at level 1.
Then why can't I start at level 20 if 1-19 serves no purpose?
who said it doesn't server a purpose, it is there for people who enjoy levelling to enjoy it (I cant wait until release to start on the journey). If you don't enjoy levelling you will not enjoy the levelling in any themepark at any level ever.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Originally posted by Bladestrom Eh? How exactly are you going to see mid game and end game at early levels (20 is simply where your skills start to build up). Mmorgs are not single player games where you see the gameplay at level 1.
Then why can't I start at level 20 if 1-19 serves no purpose?
who said it doesn't server a purpose, it is there for people who enjoy levelling to enjoy it (I cant wait until release to start on the journey). If you don't enjoy levelling you will not enjoy the levelling in any themepark at any level ever.
Again you're implying all themeparks have the same leveling experience.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Originally posted by Bladestrom Eh? How exactly are you going to see mid game and end game at early levels (20 is simply where your skills start to build up). Mmorgs are not single player games where you see the gameplay at level 1.
Then why can't I start at level 20 if 1-19 serves no purpose?
who said it doesn't server a purpose, it is there for people who enjoy levelling to enjoy it (I cant wait until release to start on the journey). If you don't enjoy levelling you will not enjoy the levelling in any themepark at any level ever.
Again you're implying all themeparks have the same leveling experience.
Originally posted by Bladestrom Eh? How exactly are you going to see mid game and end game at early levels (20 is simply where your skills start to build up). Mmorgs are not single player games where you see the gameplay at level 1.
Then why can't I start at level 20 if 1-19 serves no purpose?
who said it doesn't server a purpose, it is there for people who enjoy levelling to enjoy it (I cant wait until release to start on the journey). If you don't enjoy levelling you will not enjoy the levelling in any themepark at any level ever.
Again you're implying all themeparks have the same leveling experience.
They pretty much do.
Not even close to the truth...
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Originally posted by Bladestrom Eh? How exactly are you going to see mid game and end game at early levels (20 is simply where your skills start to build up). Mmorgs are not single player games where you see the gameplay at level 1.
Then why can't I start at level 20 if 1-19 serves no purpose?
who said it doesn't server a purpose, it is there for people who enjoy levelling to enjoy it (I cant wait until release to start on the journey). If you don't enjoy levelling you will not enjoy the levelling in any themepark at any level ever.
Again you're implying all themeparks have the same leveling experience.
They pretty much do.
Not even close to the truth...
I've played a lot of themeparks and leveling boils down to the same repetitive activities. You go from quest A to quest B and/or public event A to public event B. Do some instanced dungeons and maybe some instanced PVP. Perhaps a bit of crafting and gathering. Once you've run around and done those things in one game, doing it in another isn't different enough to make a difference.
Originally posted by Bladestrom Eh? How exactly are you going to see mid game and end game at early levels (20 is simply where your skills start to build up). Mmorgs are not single player games where you see the gameplay at level 1.
Then why can't I start at level 20 if 1-19 serves no purpose?
who said it doesn't server a purpose, it is there for people who enjoy levelling to enjoy it (I cant wait until release to start on the journey). If you don't enjoy levelling you will not enjoy the levelling in any themepark at any level ever.
Again you're implying all themeparks have the same leveling experience.
They pretty much do.
Not even close to the truth...
yup they do, the key element that changes is the lore/storytelling, and if you don't like lore/storytelling your gonna get pretty bored of levelling. Hint : mmo RPG
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Originally posted by Bladestrom Eh? How exactly are you going to see mid game and end game at early levels (20 is simply where your skills start to build up). Mmorgs are not single player games where you see the gameplay at level 1.
I understand where you're coming from and you're right about knowing what the game is about with the first few levels and that's how i knew what kind of game it was. I'm not a solo'r i love to group and I like questing but I'm just doing the same thing with my other mmo's. I'm not dogging the game it's just with all the talk and hype i was expecting something completely different. I do see that the devs did a great job with the game, it's nicely polished and it will probably have a successful launch, but if you think about it you take the dodge ability away and the ability to use your attacks while running it's nothing more then the same mmo's out there. I already purchased the game and i will definitely play it and give it another try, but i know the outcome. The only thing that's fresh about this game is its coming out in 2014.
Originally posted by Bladestrom Eh? How exactly are you going to see mid game and end game at early levels (20 is simply where your skills start to build up). Mmorgs are not single player games where you see the gameplay at level 1.
I understand where you're coming from and you're right about knowing what the game is about with the first few levels and that's how i knew what kind of game it was. I'm not a solo'r i love to group and I like questing but I'm just doing the same thing with my other mmo's. I'm not dogging the game it's just with all the talk and hype i was expecting something completely different. I do see that the devs did a great job with the game, it's nicely polished and it will probably have a successful launch, but if you think about it you take the dodge ability away and the ability to use your attacks while running it's nothing more then the same mmo's out there. I already purchased the game and i will definitely play it and give it another try, but i know the outcome. The only thing that's fresh about this game is its coming out in 2014.
For me its the first game that aims squarely at Wow gameplay, its fresh in that we are presented with a huge seamless world larger than vanilla wow and comparable in quality with a new story and lore to enjoy. We have not had that since Wow released and that's enough for me to get a few month enjoyment at least - with the potential of equally good end-game. The graphics are better and the raiding mechanisms are fresh (telegraphs and duel role at same time) if you think its not, think back to heroic Wow raiding - your screen filled with cooldown bars from dbm instead of layered telegraph patterns - I at least don't find cooldown bar watching exciting! If people are expecting a wildly different experience in a themepark they wont get it, the genre is what it is, and people wishing for something else are wishing for a different type of game.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Originally posted by Bladestrom It was chicken and egg, communities needed to form to run 40 man, and those were the best days from a social point of view. Now there is no social aspect and bliz brought in smaller raids - no coincidence.
However you should ask yourself why blizzard are going to 30 man - another coincidence?
Not taking sides one way or the other, though Blizzard is actually reducing the number of players needed for hardcore content. Mythic Raiding (The Hardest raid in WoD) will be 20 man instead of 25 to better facilitate everything and make it more challenging as a whole. It is only going up to 30 man in Flexible raids, whereby you can enter with 10 to 30 people or friends (if you have that many) and the game will proactively scale monster strength and numbers therein.
Therefore this particular argument actually supports what the other guy said.
Due to frequent travel in my youth, English isn't something I consider my primary language (and thus I obtained quirky ways of writing). German and French were always easier for me despite my family being U.S. citizens for over a century. Spanish I learned as a requirement in school, Japanese and Korean I acquired for my youthful desire of anime and gaming (and also work now). I only debate in English to help me work with it (and limit things). In addition, I'm not smart enough to remain fluent in everything and typically need exposure to get in the groove of things again if I haven't heard it in a while. If you understand Mandarin, I know a little, but it has actually been a challenge and could use some help.
Also, I thoroughly enjoy debates and have accounts on over a dozen sites for this. If you wish to engage in such, please put effort in a post and provide sources -- I will then do the same with what I already wrote (if I didn't) as well as with my responses to your own. Expanding my information on a subject makes my stance either change or strengthen the next time I speak of it or write a thesis. Allow me to thank you sincerely for your time.
Comments
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
want 7 free days of playing? Try this
http://www.swtor.com/r/ZptVnY
Bottom line Is if you don't like questing you are not going to like levelling - in any mmorg ever.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
I really don't like the wait till level 20 thing, tbh, and I am playing it. I think from the very get go, the game shows you whats up, but the issue is some people playing it, are just expecting to be bored, while the people who are liking it, are ready to have fun solo people who are fine with the game and setting/design to be whatever it will, and most likely have a group or community who is ready to enjoy it together.
So I'm saying if you are solo player who is maybe thinking it will be more of the same, or with a group who doesn't want to play it, then its prolly best to skip it, as its a toss up if you will be able to enjoy what it has to offer.
You don't even have to log in to find this out, you know it already. You will not log into a different perspective or community setting. No matter how one might think, that can happen only if a game is super innovative or just how you want it.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
Not sure if this is directed at me or not, I have capped 2 chars and have other mid 30s, done the dungeons and vets, IMO the game doesn't become more in depth, it just gets harder if you are not playing it right as you get into the higher levels. But that doesn't change that its the same game even at early levels, if you play it right at early levels for instance things go way faster, like you can level to 10 in like 2-3hrs, if you are not though, it will take maybe 5-6hrs or something crazy.
Yea we totally believe you.
Well, if there is something you question, please feel free, I'm obviously here and willing to communicate.
I'm not saying that overall the game lacks depth, I do not feel thats the case. I just think from the very start they give you the jist, obviously things get more intense and so on, but its all there.
Then why can't I start at level 20 if 1-19 serves no purpose?
Boycotting EA. Why? They suck, even moreso since 2008.
It does server a purpose. It introduces you to the game, the new combat systems, and also serves as a tutorial for those that haven't played MMORPGs before. Yea, those people still exist, and certainly wouldn't keep playing a game if it threw them into content designed for veteran MMORPG players.
who said it doesn't server a purpose, it is there for people who enjoy levelling to enjoy it (I cant wait until release to start on the journey). If you don't enjoy levelling you will not enjoy the levelling in any themepark at any level ever.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
Again you're implying all themeparks have the same leveling experience.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
They pretty much do.
Not even close to the truth...
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I've played a lot of themeparks and leveling boils down to the same repetitive activities. You go from quest A to quest B and/or public event A to public event B. Do some instanced dungeons and maybe some instanced PVP. Perhaps a bit of crafting and gathering. Once you've run around and done those things in one game, doing it in another isn't different enough to make a difference.
yup they do, the key element that changes is the lore/storytelling, and if you don't like lore/storytelling your gonna get pretty bored of levelling. Hint : mmo RPG
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
I understand where you're coming from and you're right about knowing what the game is about with the first few levels and that's how i knew what kind of game it was. I'm not a solo'r i love to group and I like questing but I'm just doing the same thing with my other mmo's. I'm not dogging the game it's just with all the talk and hype i was expecting something completely different. I do see that the devs did a great job with the game, it's nicely polished and it will probably have a successful launch, but if you think about it you take the dodge ability away and the ability to use your attacks while running it's nothing more then the same mmo's out there. I already purchased the game and i will definitely play it and give it another try, but i know the outcome. The only thing that's fresh about this game is its coming out in 2014.
For me its the first game that aims squarely at Wow gameplay, its fresh in that we are presented with a huge seamless world larger than vanilla wow and comparable in quality with a new story and lore to enjoy. We have not had that since Wow released
and that's enough for me to get a few month enjoyment at least - with the potential of equally good end-game. The graphics are better and the raiding mechanisms are fresh (telegraphs and duel role at same time) if you think its not, think back to heroic Wow raiding - your screen filled with cooldown bars from dbm instead of layered telegraph patterns - I at least don't find cooldown bar watching exciting! If people are expecting a wildly different experience in a themepark they wont get it, the genre is what it is, and people wishing for something else are wishing for a different type of game.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
Not taking sides one way or the other, though Blizzard is actually reducing the number of players needed for hardcore content. Mythic Raiding (The Hardest raid in WoD) will be 20 man instead of 25 to better facilitate everything and make it more challenging as a whole. It is only going up to 30 man in Flexible raids, whereby you can enter with 10 to 30 people or friends (if you have that many) and the game will proactively scale monster strength and numbers therein.
Therefore this particular argument actually supports what the other guy said.