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Same game again

13

Comments

  • AmjocoAmjoco Member UncommonPosts: 4,860
    It's probably near impossible to bring something new to the themepark side of this genre.  I think you would have to go with a sandbox type game or just accept that these type games all revolve around quests. Quests involve what you don't seem to appreciate OP. 

    Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.

  • ArakaziArakazi Member UncommonPosts: 911
    Originally posted by Covet78
    Originally posted by Chrisbox
    Originally posted by Covet78
    Originally posted by Arakazi

    The thing is... nobody is complaining that the game is a poor quality game or poor value. On the contrary, most who have tried it say that it's polished with fairly good combat and is full of content with something like a year and a half worth on the way. The main complaint is that it doesn't do anything new or brings anything unique to the table other than the off-the-wall sci-fi setting. It may be better than 90% of mmos, but most people have done that questing and dungeon grinding till cap, then gearing for raids nonsense in a dozen other mmos.

    People have complained for the last few years that they are tired of that game model. Fed up with levels, fed up with superficial crafting and fed up with static worlds that are as shallow as a puddle. We've done wow, nobody will do it better than Blizzard did, you may do it just as good or get close, but that will never be enough. Please, just stop trying and instead move the genre on.

    That honestly is their problem. This game has been advertised as it currently stands from day one. There is no surprises here. No one should be. There are 100's of mmo's out there. If people are tired of this themepark style mmo, that means they have played a few different mmo's and are somewhat in the loop as to upcomming mmo's and what they contain. How the hell are they surprised that this is a themepark raiding/instanced pvp based mmo? 

    How could someone logically complain about the games design and content if they are experienced mmo players knowing that this game has been planned this way for years. Oh that's right. they can't logically complain. just complain to complain. I understand now.

    Arakazi said absolutely nothing about being suprised, you brought that into your comment covet, he said they are complaining because its more of the same that we've had for years.  Which would make this carbines issue, not the people complaining.  

    I'm guess that's where we differ. I have known for years now that wildstar would be designed as a hardcore raiding mmo. The warplots were a nice surprise I must admit, but as a person the follows mmo development, and understanding that carbine studios has a healthy overflowing handful of old blizzard devs wanting to make the hardcore themepark raiding based mmo. These information was wildly public.

    It takes less then 48 hours played to hit max level. Some have done it in 32 hours. The max level is the endgame. Not level 10. What this means is, you cannot judge the game correctly based on up to a level 10 character. If you want to see experience the oldschool with a new twist style themepark mmo. Attunments and ability grinds and super hardcore legendary weapon quest chains, this is the mmo for you. If you are looking for more of an archage style mmo because you are tired of instance based ability pressing group pvp and pve, then stay far away as you won't be happy. 

    If Arakazi is not surprised, then no need to complain about something he knew for a long time now. This isn't the game for him. I don't get mad at sports videogames because they make sports videogames and I don't like sports videogames. That's would just be silly.

     

    I'm neither angry or surprised I was just making a number of observations based on what I know about the game and what people have said about Wildstar. I certainly wasn't being critical of the game itself, as I said nobody who is not being over critical is complaining about the quality of the game, it seems to be a high quality and polished product. But... someone said that the feel they should like the game but could not get past the idea that they've been there a dozen times before and I fully agree with that statement. The game may be superb in what it does, but is it unique, original and better enough for me to leave my current games and bring myself and my guild to Wildstar? I don't think so.

    Now I've been raiding and pvping in MMO's since Everquest. I love MMO's, it's that conflict between competition and working together for a common goal as well as the social aspect of MMOs is why I keep playing them. What has disapointed me is how the genre, particularly in the west, has struggled to move on from WoW and Wildstar is just the latest in a long long line of MMOs that has used WoW as it's marker. Even when games try to be different, they never try to be too different. Rift, Star Wars,  Lord of the Rings and so on.. are all unique in some aspects but the similarities are such that it becomes grating.

    I will probably try wildstar, just as I tried all the other MMO's. But I know exactly what I will get and that's the heart of the problem.

  • DanitaKusorDanitaKusor Member UncommonPosts: 556

    If all Wildstar brings to the table is super hard end game raiding (as suggested in a couple of posts in this thread) then it is going to crash and burn very quickly because that is a very tiny niche market.

    The Enlightened take things Lightly

  • JimmydeanJimmydean Member UncommonPosts: 1,290
    Originally posted by DanitaKusor

    If all Wildstar brings to the table is super hard end game raiding (as suggested in a couple of posts in this thread) then it is going to crash and burn very quickly because that is a very tiny niche market.

     

    That's all it adds. And semi hardcore raiding. And dungeons. And battlegrounds. And arenas. And warplots. And the most extensive housing system mmorpgs have ever seen. And off planet adventures. And solo progression for those that want it. And crafting. And side classes. And raid quests to upgrade weapons.


    So very little to do.
  • BeansnBreadBeansnBread Member EpicPosts: 7,254
    Originally posted by Jimmydean
    Originally posted by DanitaKusor

    If all Wildstar brings to the table is super hard end game raiding (as suggested in a couple of posts in this thread) then it is going to crash and burn very quickly because that is a very tiny niche market.

     

    That's all it adds. And semi hardcore raiding. And dungeons. And battlegrounds. And arenas. And warplots. And the most extensive housing system mmorpgs have ever seen. And off planet adventures. And solo progression for those that want it. And crafting. And side classes. And raid quests to upgrade weapons. So very little to do.

    What are side classes?

  • JimmydeanJimmydean Member UncommonPosts: 1,290
    Originally posted by BeansnBread

    Originally posted by Jimmydean
    Originally posted by DanitaKusor
    If all Wildstar brings to the table is super hard end game raiding (as suggested in a couple of posts in this thread) then it is going to crash and burn very quickly because that is a very tiny niche market.

     

    That's all it adds. And semi hardcore raiding. And dungeons. And battlegrounds. And arenas. And warplots. And the most extensive housing system mmorpgs have ever seen. And off planet adventures. And solo progression for those that want it. And crafting. And side classes. And raid quests to upgrade weapons. So very little to do.

    What are side classes?

     

    Not sure what they are technically called, but like Explorer scientist settler or soldier.
  • BeansnBreadBeansnBread Member EpicPosts: 7,254
    Originally posted by Jimmydean
    Originally posted by BeansnBread
    Originally posted by Jimmydean
    Originally posted by DanitaKusor

    If all Wildstar brings to the table is super hard end game raiding (as suggested in a couple of posts in this thread) then it is going to crash and burn very quickly because that is a very tiny niche market.

     

    That's all it adds. And semi hardcore raiding. And dungeons. And battlegrounds. And arenas. And warplots. And the most extensive housing system mmorpgs have ever seen. And off planet adventures. And solo progression for those that want it. And crafting. And side classes. And raid quests to upgrade weapons. So very little to do.

    What are side classes?

    Not sure what they are technically called, but like Explorer scientist settler or soldier.

    Oh right, the paths thing. I thought for a second I didn't know about one of the systems.

  • crashdxcrashdx Member Posts: 53
    Originally posted by DanitaKusor

    If all Wildstar brings to the table is super hard end game raiding (as suggested in a couple of posts in this thread) then it is going to crash and burn very quickly because that is a very tiny niche market.

     

    Good thing it doesn't.

    *End Game raiding

    *End Game Dungeons

    *Housing

    *Arenas/Warplots/ PVP

    *Story Content

     

    The raiding is for those that want to raid, but if you don't want to you can still do the typical MMO things.

  • CetraCetra Member UncommonPosts: 359
    wildstar is just the same themepark mmo with a different skin. It might be a big hit if it comes out 5-10 years ago. Its too late now. Ppl are sick of wow-style mmo.
  • JimmydeanJimmydean Member UncommonPosts: 1,290
    Originally posted by Cetra

    wildstar is just the same themepark mmo with a different skin. It might be a big hit if it comes out 5-10 years ago. Its too late now. Ppl are sick of wow-style mmo.

     

    Way to stick with the game through the first quest. Enjoy whatever game you are currently playing!
  • HarikenHariken Member EpicPosts: 2,680
    Originally posted by SamuraiXIV
    Level 10??? I could not play it to see level 2 and you don't need certain level to judge if you like a game or not.

    This is very true if your a vet. mmo player it shouldn't take you 20 lvl's to know if you like a game or not. Thats just a lame excuse to say you need to be a certain lvl to judge what a game is. I never bought into that line at all.

  • JimmydeanJimmydean Member UncommonPosts: 1,290
    Originally posted by Hariken

    Originally posted by SamuraiXIV
    Level 10??? I could not play it to see level 2 and you don't need certain level to judge if you like a game or not.

    This is very true if your a vet. mmo player it shouldn't take you 20 lvl's to know if you like a game or not. Thats just a lame excuse to say you need to be a certain lvl to judge what a game is. I never bought into that line at all.

     

    If you are a vet mmo player the first 10-20 levels weren't designed with you in mind at all. They are there to teach people the game and how mmorpgs work, which is why those levels always seem so boring to vet mmorpg players.
  • fyerwallfyerwall Member UncommonPosts: 3,240
    Originally posted by Jimmydean
    Originally posted by Hariken
    Originally posted by SamuraiXIV
    Level 10??? I could not play it to see level 2 and you don't need certain level to judge if you like a game or not.

    This is very true if your a vet. mmo player it shouldn't take you 20 lvl's to know if you like a game or not. Thats just a lame excuse to say you need to be a certain lvl to judge what a game is. I never bought into that line at all.

     

    If you are a vet mmo player the first 10-20 levels weren't designed with you in mind at all. They are there to teach people the game and how mmorpgs work, which is why those levels always seem so boring to vet mmorpg players.

    As writers will tell you, If you can't grab your readers attention in the first paragraph, they may never pick up the book again. Same is pretty much true for anything - if you cant grab the persons attention in the first few minutes, it doesn't matter how awesome the story becomes in chapter 10, you just might lose them forever.

    MMOs are no exception. If the first few levels are dull as hell, regardless if its just a tutorial, people will walk away and never look back. Not many people would have sat through the first 30 minutes of Die Hard if it was John getting dressed and tying his shoes.

    There are 3 types of people in the world.
    1.) Those who make things happen
    2.) Those who watch things happen
    3.) And those who wonder "What the %#*& just happened?!"


  • AzmodeusAzmodeus Member UncommonPosts: 268
    I see the ESO hate tsunami has made it's way to Wildstar's shores.
      OMG I am Ancient!
  • JimmydeanJimmydean Member UncommonPosts: 1,290
    Originally posted by fyerwall

    Originally posted by Jimmydean
    Originally posted by Hariken
    Originally posted by SamuraiXIV
    Level 10??? I could not play it to see level 2 and you don't need certain level to judge if you like a game or not.

    This is very true if your a vet. mmo player it shouldn't take you 20 lvl's to know if you like a game or not. Thats just a lame excuse to say you need to be a certain lvl to judge what a game is. I never bought into that line at all.

     

    If you are a vet mmo player the first 10-20 levels weren't designed with you in mind at all. They are there to teach people the game and how mmorpgs work, which is why those levels always seem so boring to vet mmorpg players.

    As writers will tell you, If you can't grab your readers attention in the first paragraph, they may never pick up the book again. Same is pretty much true for anything - if you cant grab the persons attention in the first few minutes, it doesn't matter how awesome the story becomes in chapter 10, you just might lose them forever.

    MMOs are no exception. If the first few levels are dull as hell, regardless if its just a tutorial, people will walk away and never look back. Not many people would have sat through the first 30 minutes of Die Hard if it was John getting dressed and tying his shoes.

     

    There's a difference between movies or books and mmorpgs though. Mmorpgs require input from the user. It's like teaching someone how to skateboard by throwing them down a half pipe. More exciting ? Sure. But they are probably going to fail miserably and never go back either. The thing with mmorpgs is that they don't have to keep all the players on the first go. Some might get bored after questing to lv 5, but they will be back when they hear about the things their friends are doing that stuck with it.
  • fyerwallfyerwall Member UncommonPosts: 3,240
    Originally posted by Jimmydean
    Originally posted by fyerwall
    Originally posted by Jimmydean
    Originally posted by Hariken
    Originally posted by SamuraiXIV
    Level 10??? I could not play it to see level 2 and you don't need certain level to judge if you like a game or not.

    This is very true if your a vet. mmo player it shouldn't take you 20 lvl's to know if you like a game or not. Thats just a lame excuse to say you need to be a certain lvl to judge what a game is. I never bought into that line at all.

     

    If you are a vet mmo player the first 10-20 levels weren't designed with you in mind at all. They are there to teach people the game and how mmorpgs work, which is why those levels always seem so boring to vet mmorpg players.

    As writers will tell you, If you can't grab your readers attention in the first paragraph, they may never pick up the book again. Same is pretty much true for anything - if you cant grab the persons attention in the first few minutes, it doesn't matter how awesome the story becomes in chapter 10, you just might lose them forever.

    MMOs are no exception. If the first few levels are dull as hell, regardless if its just a tutorial, people will walk away and never look back. Not many people would have sat through the first 30 minutes of Die Hard if it was John getting dressed and tying his shoes.

     

    There's a difference between movies or books and mmorpgs though. Mmorpgs require input from the user. It's like teaching someone how to skateboard by throwing them down a half pipe. More exciting ? Sure. But they are probably going to fail miserably and never go back either. The thing with mmorpgs is that they don't have to keep all the players on the first go. Some might get bored after questing to lv 5, but they will be back when they hear about the things their friends are doing that stuck with it.

    There is no difference. People desire the hook from step one. Doesn't matter if they are new or an old hat to the genre. If the start of the game cannot hook a player enough to get them to provide the required input, they will bail. Sure, some might come back down the road to try again, but that is not a risk a developer would want to bet on. That player may just find something else and actually convince the friends playing to jump ship and join them.

    And any developer under the NCSoft banner would know hooking someone now is better than hoping the try again later. Because 'later' might just be too late.

    There are 3 types of people in the world.
    1.) Those who make things happen
    2.) Those who watch things happen
    3.) And those who wonder "What the %#*& just happened?!"


  • GeezerGamerGeezerGamer Member EpicPosts: 8,855

    What were you expecting? This is the genre.  This is what a Theme Park is. I'm not aware of any other game developers for any other genre who are desperately trying to overhaul the defining mechanics of that genre. Except for Theme Park MMORPGs Forcing a rushed evolution into these games hasn't proven overly successful.

    It's really a catch 22 though. There doesn't seem to be enough market or an "Old School" Theme Park, but developers trying to make Action MMORPGs aren't meeting with overwhelming success either.

    It's just my opinion/observation but for whatever reason, WoW appealed to gamers it shouldn't have and now.........we are seeing "It's the same ten year old game" comments. What about Mario Brothers?  Donkey Kong released 33 years ago. The basic mechanics are still the same. Either you like them or you don't.

    Oh well.

     

     

  • NildenNilden Member EpicPosts: 3,916
    Originally posted by Jimmydean
    Originally posted by DanitaKusor

    If all Wildstar brings to the table is super hard end game raiding (as suggested in a couple of posts in this thread) then it is going to crash and burn very quickly because that is a very tiny niche market.

     

    That's all it adds. And semi hardcore raiding. And dungeons. And battlegrounds. And arenas. And warplots. And the most extensive housing system mmorpgs have ever seen. And off planet adventures. And solo progression for those that want it. And crafting. And side classes. And raid quests to upgrade weapons. So very little to do.

    If your going to make a list of things it adds it probably shouldn't read like 90% of the things that you can already do in WoW. Plus WoW is going to add garrisons which are housing in WoD and already had 40 mans raids and got rid of them.

    The obnoxious overused telegraphing and irrelevant paths are all it really adds. In the end it's not enough and just another WoW clone.

    "You CAN'T buy ships for RL money." - MaxBacon

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    Try a MUD today at http://www.mudconnect.com/ 

  • Greymantle4Greymantle4 Member UncommonPosts: 809
    Originally posted by nilden
    Originally posted by Jimmydean
    Originally posted by DanitaKusor

    If all Wildstar brings to the table is super hard end game raiding (as suggested in a couple of posts in this thread) then it is going to crash and burn very quickly because that is a very tiny niche market.

     

    That's all it adds. And semi hardcore raiding. And dungeons. And battlegrounds. And arenas. And warplots. And the most extensive housing system mmorpgs have ever seen. And off planet adventures. And solo progression for those that want it. And crafting. And side classes. And raid quests to upgrade weapons. So very little to do.

    If your going to make a list of things it adds it probably shouldn't read like 90% of the things that you can already do in WoW. Plus WoW is going to add garrisons which are housing in WoD and already had 40 mans raids and got rid of them.

    The obnoxious overused telegraphing and irrelevant paths are all it really adds. In the end it's not enough and just another WoW clone.

    The problem with Wow is it has become easy mode from top to bottom. Wildstar is bringing back challenge from top to bottom other then the first 15 levels or so.  Is that a formula for success we shall see.

  • ZzadZzad Member UncommonPosts: 1,401

    I agree OP...

    and again the same old same answer...oh you only played 15? 20? 25? 30? levels?

    whatever....

    It´s the same old...same...old.... magic formula.

    I had hopes on this game but it´s simply the most updated version of THE SAME.

    Shame...passing on this one.

  • crashdxcrashdx Member Posts: 53
    Originally posted by GeezerGamer

    What were you expecting? This is the genre.  This is what a Theme Park is. I'm not aware of any other game developers for any other genre who are desperately trying to overhaul the defining mechanics of that genre. Except for Theme Park MMORPGs Forcing a rushed evolution into these games hasn't proven overly successful.

    It's really a catch 22 though. There doesn't seem to be enough market or an "Old School" Theme Park, but developers trying to make Action MMORPGs aren't meeting with overwhelming success either.

    It's just my opinion/observation but for whatever reason, WoW appealed to gamers it shouldn't have and now.........we are seeing "It's the same ten year old game" comments. What about Mario Brothers?  Donkey Kong released 33 years ago. The basic mechanics are still the same. Either you like them or you don't.

    Oh well.

     

     

     

    Pretty much.

    People don't seem to understand how sub-genres work.

     

    Every 2D fighter is the same in theory...just like every JRPG...

    Wildstar is a themepark MMORPG. To expect a sandbox out of it is your own fault and ignorance for not researching properly. I think that's the biggest issue with MMO fans, they expect every single MMO to cater to their needs

     

    Old School MMO fans complain about GW2 not having a trinity or raids when it was never advertised as such.

    Action MMO fans complain about Old School MMOs

    Sandbox MMO fans complain about both.

     

    I'd like to see all MMO fans approach games with more intelligence. Recognize that not every MMO game is made for your tastes. 

  • G4NK3DG4NK3D Member UncommonPosts: 97

    When I saw that player skills are telegraphed in PvP so you can easily dodge each others skills instead of actually trying to guess what a person might do next, it made my mind up for me. 

     

    Sorry I'd rather have something that takes a little more skill than to just dodge telegraphs all day.

  • papabear151papabear151 Member UncommonPosts: 110
    The combat in this game is not difficult, to me. Yeah, I played the game. Sure the combat takes more input than say, level 1 wow, but it isn't "difficult".
  • papabear151papabear151 Member UncommonPosts: 110
    Originally posted by crashdx
    Originally posted by GeezerGamer

    What were you expecting? This is the genre.  This is what a Theme Park is. I'm not aware of any other game developers for any other genre who are desperately trying to overhaul the defining mechanics of that genre. Except for Theme Park MMORPGs Forcing a rushed evolution into these games hasn't proven overly successful.

    It's really a catch 22 though. There doesn't seem to be enough market or an "Old School" Theme Park, but developers trying to make Action MMORPGs aren't meeting with overwhelming success either.

    It's just my opinion/observation but for whatever reason, WoW appealed to gamers it shouldn't have and now.........we are seeing "It's the same ten year old game" comments. What about Mario Brothers?  Donkey Kong released 33 years ago. The basic mechanics are still the same. Either you like them or you don't.

    Oh well.

     

     

     

    Pretty much.

    People don't seem to understand how sub-genres work.

     

    Every 2D fighter is the same in theory...just like every JRPG...

    Wildstar is a themepark MMORPG. To expect a sandbox out of it is your own fault and ignorance for not researching properly. I think that's the biggest issue with MMO fans, they expect every single MMO to cater to their needs

     

    Old School MMO fans complain about GW2 not having a trinity or raids when it was never advertised as such.

    Action MMO fans complain about Old School MMOs

    Sandbox MMO fans complain about both.

     

    I'd like to see all MMO fans approach games with more intelligence. Recognize that not every MMO game is made for your tastes. 

     I think most MMO fans would like to see devs start approaching games with more intelligence. Recognize that not every MMO gamer likes to be told what their tastes are.

  • papabear151papabear151 Member UncommonPosts: 110
    Originally posted by Greymantle4
    Originally posted by nilden
    Originally posted by Jimmydean
    Originally posted by DanitaKusor

    If all Wildstar brings to the table is super hard end game raiding (as suggested in a couple of posts in this thread) then it is going to crash and burn very quickly because that is a very tiny niche market.

     

    That's all it adds. And semi hardcore raiding. And dungeons. And battlegrounds. And arenas. And warplots. And the most extensive housing system mmorpgs have ever seen. And off planet adventures. And solo progression for those that want it. And crafting. And side classes. And raid quests to upgrade weapons. So very little to do.

    If your going to make a list of things it adds it probably shouldn't read like 90% of the things that you can already do in WoW. Plus WoW is going to add garrisons which are housing in WoD and already had 40 mans raids and got rid of them.

    The obnoxious overused telegraphing and irrelevant paths are all it really adds. In the end it's not enough and just another WoW clone.

    The problem with Wow is it has become easy mode from top to bottom. Wildstar is bringing back challenge from top to bottom other then the first 15 levels or so.  Is that a formula for success we shall see.

    WOW was never difficult from a skill standpoint, only tedious. Grindng for hours and hours a day, tedious. Gathering up 40 morons and getting them to coordinate without messing up, tedious. 5-10 hour dungeon runs with giant chunks of time just standing around waiting for jim-bo-bobs hot pockets to finish microwaving, tedious.

    I'm going to be really surprised if this game survives only because I'm SURE that most the people here don't actually know what they are asking for.

This discussion has been closed.