Originally posted by Uhwop Originally posted by BMBenderOriginally posted by UhwopOriginally posted by BMBenderOriginally posted by UhwopOriginally posted by BMBenderOriginally posted by Uhwop It's entirely over the code running the headset. Wall Street Journal reported that Maryland-based media company ZeniMax Media Inc. has claimed that the intellectual property that runs Oculus Rift was stolen by id Software co-founder and Doom creator John Carmack.
Propriatary tech, intellectual property is not limited to code, it can be software, firmware, hardware, or manufacturing processes among others Even concept if the "modified" headset functions in the same manner as the current OR if the resulting design benefited from lessons learned R&Ding the original set while under contract with ZZen using Zen resources to further R&D.Carjack was working on software to run a VR headset while he was at zenimax. Zenimax is claiming that that code is what's running the OR. If carjack had violated any contract he may have had with zenimax they would have already sued him, they haven't, nor have they ever said he did. They're accusing him of steeling code. That's what the IP running the OR is, software. the complaint does not specify "code" firmware/hware can also be argued to "run" somethingCarmack confirmed that zenimax is accusing him of stealing the code. if so they're idiots, that's the easiest thing to murk the waters over. I tend to doubt they would take on FB's legal team over something that easily masked.Maybe not.
Something Carmack said makes it sound like the code he created for zenimax never got patented. Both parties will have to prove that the code belongs to them. In particular OR will have to prove that Carmack didn't write the software OR uses while he was still at zenimax. That could be very difficult for them.
which is why I suspect in all their recent public communications Zen has spent a fair amount of time talking about the headsets not software.
Originally posted by Uhwop It's entirely over the code running the headset.
Wall Street Journal reported that Maryland-based media company ZeniMax Media Inc. has claimed that the intellectual property that runs Oculus Rift was stolen by id Software co-founder and Doom creator John Carmack.
Propriatary tech, intellectual property is not limited to code, it can be software, firmware, hardware, or manufacturing processes among others Even concept if the "modified" headset functions in the same manner as the current OR if the resulting design benefited from lessons learned R&Ding the original set while under contract with ZZen using Zen resources to further R&D.
Carmack was working on software to run a VR headset while he was at zenimax.
Zenimax is claiming that that code is what's running the OR.
If carjack had violated any contract he may have had with zenimax they would have already sued him, they haven't, nor have they ever said he did.
They're accusing him of steeling code. That's what the IP running the OR is, software.
It's not about the code. Or at least not all about the code. Zenimax assisted OR in many aspects, tech, code, you name it, under the condition that OR would not make this available to any 3rd party. They are not suing over code, but over the fact that they provided technology (Code, Hardware, etc) and assistance (processes, knowledge, etc) under an agreement and they feel now that agreement has been breached.
There are 3 types of people in the world. 1.) Those who make things happen 2.) Those who watch things happen 3.) And those who wonder "What the %#*& just happened?!"
zeni has 0 chance of gaining anything from this as i'm sure facebook knew about the legal issues when they purchased OR and apparently didn't think zeni had a leg to stand on.
zeni has 0 chance of gaining anything from this as i'm sure facebook knew about the legal issues when they purchased OR and apparently didn't think zeni had a leg to stand on.
Zen "says" they have written statement(s) from Luckey acknowledging some of the tech is owned by Zen, if true and ifany part of that tech is still in the current product then yea there's an "issue"
I can tell a lot of you don't work with software development professionally or really any technical/engineering careers.
If he worked on anything for zenimax during his tenure, it belongs to zenimax. Patents mean jack shit. These agreements are in every business, its proprietary all the way down to the meeting notes you print out for your weekly TEM. its as simple as that.
Originally posted by VooDoo_Papa I can tell a lot of you don't work with software development professionally or really any technical/engineering careers.If he worked on anything for zenimax during his tenure, it belongs to zenimax. these agreements are in every business, it proprietary all the way down to the meeting noted you print out for your weekly TEM. its as simple as that.
unless he re-negotiated that portion/clause , admittedly it doesn't sound like he did
Originally posted by Uhwop It's entirely over the code running the headset.
Wall Street Journal reported that Maryland-based media company ZeniMax Media Inc. has claimed that the intellectual property that runs Oculus Rift was stolen by id Software co-founder and Doom creator John Carmack.
Propriatary tech, intellectual property is not limited to code, it can be software, firmware, hardware, or manufacturing processes among others Even concept if the "modified" headset functions in the same manner as the current OR if the resulting design benefited from lessons learned R&Ding the original set while under contract with ZZen using Zen resources to further R&D.
Carmack was working on software to run a VR headset while he was at zenimax.
Zenimax is claiming that that code is what's running the OR.
If carjack had violated any contract he may have had with zenimax they would have already sued him, they haven't, nor have they ever said he did.
They're accusing him of steeling code. That's what the IP running the OR is, software.
It's not about the code. Or at least not all about the code. Zenimax assisted OR in many aspects, tech, code, you name it, under the condition that OR would not make this available to any 3rd party. They are not suing over code, but over the fact that they provided technology (Code, Hardware, etc) and assistance (processes, knowledge, etc) under an agreement and they feel now that agreement has been breached.
Zenimax didn't help with the hardware. Luckey is responsible for that. He sent the hardware to carmack while he was still at zenimax. The only reason to send anything to carmack is because you want him to code something, that's what he does; he's not a hardware guy, he's a software genius.
Zenimax and Luckey were probably negotiating a deal where zenimax would provide the software to run the OR, and it fell through. Carmack liked what he saw and didn't want to miss out, so he left zenimax to developers the software to run OR; which is what he was supposedly doing while he was at zenimax. I'm sure this didn't piss zenimax off.
Carmack has said himself that this is all about the software running OR. Hence his comment about not a single line of code running OR was developed while he was at zenimax, and all the code he did develope at zenimax is already owned by zenimax.
On a tangent anyone know how many current titles under development intend(ed) to incorporate OR into their games? I'm pretty sure someone told me Elite Dangerous was planning on it, any others?
I wonder what this could do to their production cycles if this drags out as long as it has the potential to.
Originally posted by Thornrage Since Zenimax tried to settle before the Facebook buyout, would think they might have more of leg to stand on here than you are accepting.
Or maybe don't they want to wait to meet Facebooks lawyers instead of Occulus...
of course zen has a case. just because the majority of mmorpg users think they are smart, doesn't mean they actually are either, just vocal.
there are many cases where this has happened, but no matter what, it all boils down to the best spin doctoring and money, and in this case, now that oculus has been bought by facebook, they will win, but they will also be paying some cash to Zenimax.
besides, oculus is doomed to a dismal death anyways, sony has superior tech
Originally posted by ThornrageSince Zenimax tried to settle before the Facebook buyout, would think they might have more of leg to stand on here than you are accepting.
Or maybe don't they want to wait to meet Facebooks lawyers instead of Occulus...
if the the agreement Zen says they had with Luckey(from before the FB buy) regarding 3rd parties(witch FB is in this case) is valid. Then the Facebook buy is one of the grounds for the suit from what I understand.
I can tell a lot of you don't work with software development professionally or really any technical/engineering careers.
Kinda had the same thought reading a lot of this thread.
I used to do ATE (Automated Test Equipment, a specialized form of industrial robotics) design for a living. The company I worked for owned everything from my mindless under-caffeinated morning doodles to any and all patentable ideas -- of which there were several. That's just the way it is, you know that going in.
Doing outside work for other companies -- and pretty much everyone I knew did, in such specialized fields consulting jobs paid ludicrously, even insanely well -- was always a dicey proposition and more than once I saw that sort of thing blow up. A few times as spectacularly, if not quite as publicly, as this.
Unless there are some really unusual mitigating circumstances here, I suspect Zeni pretty much has them dead to rights. Hard to say for sure, of course, without all the facts, a legal degree, and a working crystal ball, but the basics seem pretty simple and, at least in my experience, as reasonably close to cut-and-dried as such things tend to get.
Originally posted by Uhwop It's entirely over the code running the headset.
Wall Street Journal reported that Maryland-based media company ZeniMax Media Inc. has claimed that the intellectual property that runs Oculus Rift was stolen by id Software co-founder and Doom creator John Carmack.
Propriatary tech, intellectual property is not limited to code, it can be software, firmware, hardware, or manufacturing processes among others Even concept if the "modified" headset functions in the same manner as the current OR if the resulting design benefited from lessons learned R&Ding the original set while under contract with ZZen using Zen resources to further R&D.
Carmack was working on software to run a VR headset while he was at zenimax.
Zenimax is claiming that that code is what's running the OR.
If carjack had violated any contract he may have had with zenimax they would have already sued him, they haven't, nor have they ever said he did.
They're accusing him of steeling code. That's what the IP running the OR is, software.
It's not about the code. Or at least not all about the code. Zenimax assisted OR in many aspects, tech, code, you name it, under the condition that OR would not make this available to any 3rd party. They are not suing over code, but over the fact that they provided technology (Code, Hardware, etc) and assistance (processes, knowledge, etc) under an agreement and they feel now that agreement has been breached.
Zenimax didn't help with the hardware. Luckey is responsible for that. He sent the hardware to carmack while he was still at zenimax. The only reason to send anything to carmack is because you want him to code something, that's what he does; he's not a hardware guy, he's a software genius.
Zenimax and Luckey were probably negotiating a deal where zenimax would provide the software to run the OR, and it fell through. Carmack liked what he saw and didn't want to miss out, so he left zenimax to developers the software to run OR; which is what he was supposedly doing while he was at zenimax. I'm sure this didn't piss zenimax off.
Carmack has said himself that this is all about the software running OR. Hence his comment about not a single line of code running OR was developed while he was at zenimax, and all the code he did develope at zenimax is already owned by zenimax.
"ZeniMax provided necessary VR technology and other valuable assistance to Palmer Luckey and other Oculus employees in 2012 and 2013 to make the Oculus Rift a viable VR product, superior to other VR market offerings." - From Zenimax.
Carmack may be just a code guy, but they are not just talking about him, they are talking about all the assistance they provided (tech, etc). Carmack is just 1 piece of the whole story, a story none of us have the full scope of just yet. There are 3 sides to every story...
There are 3 types of people in the world. 1.) Those who make things happen 2.) Those who watch things happen 3.) And those who wonder "What the %#*& just happened?!"
of course zen has a case. just because the majority of mmorpg users think they are smart, doesn't mean they actually are either, just vocal.
there are many cases where this has happened, but no matter what, it all boils down to the best spin doctoring and money, and in this case, now that oculus has been bought by facebook, they will win, but they will also be paying some cash to Zenimax.
besides, oculus is doomed to a dismal death anyways, sony has superior tech
It really doesn't help that Carmack was working for two companies at the same time, developing software for each, to do the same thing.
How does he prove that he didn't develop any code for the OR while he was at zenimax? I don't think he can, nor do I think he didn't. Zenimax shouldn't care that its not the same code, they were already paying him to do that for them and he was doing it for what would be a competitor at the same time.
This could actually prevent the Facebook aquisition from going through, which is what I think zenimax really cares about. They were working on creating a VR system of their own and the brainchild who was supposed to do that for them didn't just leave to work for the competition, he was working for them while they still employed him, and now Facebook is trying to get control of it. Zenimax could see this as the end of any chance of getting into the VR market, and may not settle for anything less than a stake in OR, and Facebook out of the picture.
Originally posted by Teala Well the game isn't selling all that well. How else can they make back the cost of development which some estimate to be over $250 million.
Where are you getting the information that ESO isn't selling well and that cod was over $250 million?
Originally posted by Uhwop It's entirely over the code running the headset.
Wall Street Journal reported that Maryland-based media company ZeniMax Media Inc. has claimed that the intellectual property that runs Oculus Rift was stolen by id Software co-founder and Doom creator John Carmack.
Propriatary tech, intellectual property is not limited to code, it can be software, firmware, hardware, or manufacturing processes among others Even concept if the "modified" headset functions in the same manner as the current OR if the resulting design benefited from lessons learned R&Ding the original set while under contract with ZZen using Zen resources to further R&D.
Carmack was working on software to run a VR headset while he was at zenimax.
Zenimax is claiming that that code is what's running the OR.
If carjack had violated any contract he may have had with zenimax they would have already sued him, they haven't, nor have they ever said he did.
They're accusing him of steeling code. That's what the IP running the OR is, software.
It's not about the code. Or at least not all about the code. Zenimax assisted OR in many aspects, tech, code, you name it, under the condition that OR would not make this available to any 3rd party. They are not suing over code, but over the fact that they provided technology (Code, Hardware, etc) and assistance (processes, knowledge, etc) under an agreement and they feel now that agreement has been breached.
Zenimax didn't help with the hardware. Luckey is responsible for that. He sent the hardware to carmack while he was still at zenimax. The only reason to send anything to carmack is because you want him to code something, that's what he does; he's not a hardware guy, he's a software genius.
Zenimax and Luckey were probably negotiating a deal where zenimax would provide the software to run the OR, and it fell through. Carmack liked what he saw and didn't want to miss out, so he left zenimax to developers the software to run OR; which is what he was supposedly doing while he was at zenimax. I'm sure this didn't piss zenimax off.
Carmack has said himself that this is all about the software running OR. Hence his comment about not a single line of code running OR was developed while he was at zenimax, and all the code he did develope at zenimax is already owned by zenimax.
"ZeniMax provided necessary VR technology and other valuable assistance to Palmer Luckey and other Oculus employees in 2012 and 2013 to make the Oculus Rift a viable VR product, superior to other VR market offerings." - From Zenimax.
Carmack may be just a code guy, but they are not just talking about him, they are talking about all the assistance they provided (tech, etc). Carmack is just 1 piece of the whole story, a story none of us have the full scope of just yet. There are 3 sides to every story...
What VR tech outside of code? A pair of sky goggles and electrical tape? Carmack jury rigged a headset to prototype his software.
Originally posted by Uhwop It's entirely over the code running the headset. Wall Street Journal reported that Maryland-based media company ZeniMax Media Inc. has claimed that the intellectual property that runs Oculus Rift was stolen by id Software co-founder and Doom creator John Carmack.
Propriatary tech, intellectual property is not limited to code, it can be software, firmware, hardware, or manufacturing processes among others Even concept if the "modified" headset functions in the same manner as the current OR if the resulting design benefited from lessons learned R&Ding the original set while under contract with ZZen using Zen resources to further R&D.
Carmack was working on software to run a VR headset while he was at zenimax. Zenimax is claiming that that code is what's running the OR. If carjack had violated any contract he may have had with zenimax they would have already sued him, they haven't, nor have they ever said he did. They're accusing him of steeling code. That's what the IP running the OR is, software.
It's not about the code. Or at least not all about the code. Zenimax assisted OR in many aspects, tech, code, you name it, under the condition that OR would not make this available to any 3rd party. They are not suing over code, but over the fact that they provided technology (Code, Hardware, etc) and assistance (processes, knowledge, etc) under an agreement and they feel now that agreement has been breached.
Zenimax didn't help with the hardware. Luckey is responsible for that. He sent the hardware to carmack while he was still at zenimax. The only reason to send anything to carmack is because you want him to code something, that's what he does; he's not a hardware guy, he's a software genius. Zenimax and Luckey were probably negotiating a deal where zenimax would provide the software to run the OR, and it fell through. Carmack liked what he saw and didn't want to miss out, so he left zenimax to developers the software to run OR; which is what he was supposedly doing while he was at zenimax. I'm sure this didn't piss zenimax off. Carmack has said himself that this is all about the software running OR. Hence his comment about not a single line of code running OR was developed while he was at zenimax, and all the code he did develope at zenimax is already owned by zenimax.
"ZeniMax provided necessary VR technology and other valuable assistance to Palmer Luckey and other Oculus employees in 2012 and 2013 to make the Oculus Rift a viable VR product, superior to other VR market offerings." - From Zenimax.Carmack may be just a code guy, but they are not just talking about him, they are talking about all the assistance they provided (tech, etc). Carmack is just 1 piece of the whole story, a story none of us have the full scope of just yet. There are 3 sides to every story...
What VR tech outside of code? A pair of sky goggles and electrical tape? Carmack jury rigged a headset to prototype his software.
If he used Zen resources to do the prototyping while being paid by Zen then yea Zen has some stake in the R&D. EDIT to put it in a different light, Ask a pharmaceutical company to give up R&D rights no matter how big/small their contribution, see where it gets you /EDIT
Originally posted by Uhwop It's entirely over the code running the headset.
Wall Street Journal reported that Maryland-based media company ZeniMax Media Inc. has claimed that the intellectual property that runs Oculus Rift was stolen by id Software co-founder and Doom creator John Carmack.
Propriatary tech, intellectual property is not limited to code, it can be software, firmware, hardware, or manufacturing processes among others Even concept if the "modified" headset functions in the same manner as the current OR if the resulting design benefited from lessons learned R&Ding the original set while under contract with ZZen using Zen resources to further R&D.
Carmack was working on software to run a VR headset while he was at zenimax.
Zenimax is claiming that that code is what's running the OR.
If carjack had violated any contract he may have had with zenimax they would have already sued him, they haven't, nor have they ever said he did.
They're accusing him of steeling code. That's what the IP running the OR is, software.
It's not about the code. Or at least not all about the code. Zenimax assisted OR in many aspects, tech, code, you name it, under the condition that OR would not make this available to any 3rd party. They are not suing over code, but over the fact that they provided technology (Code, Hardware, etc) and assistance (processes, knowledge, etc) under an agreement and they feel now that agreement has been breached.
Zenimax didn't help with the hardware. Luckey is responsible for that. He sent the hardware to carmack while he was still at zenimax. The only reason to send anything to carmack is because you want him to code something, that's what he does; he's not a hardware guy, he's a software genius.
Zenimax and Luckey were probably negotiating a deal where zenimax would provide the software to run the OR, and it fell through. Carmack liked what he saw and didn't want to miss out, so he left zenimax to developers the software to run OR; which is what he was supposedly doing while he was at zenimax. I'm sure this didn't piss zenimax off.
Carmack has said himself that this is all about the software running OR. Hence his comment about not a single line of code running OR was developed while he was at zenimax, and all the code he did develope at zenimax is already owned by zenimax.
"ZeniMax provided necessary VR technology and other valuable assistance to Palmer Luckey and other Oculus employees in 2012 and 2013 to make the Oculus Rift a viable VR product, superior to other VR market offerings." - From Zenimax.
Carmack may be just a code guy, but they are not just talking about him, they are talking about all the assistance they provided (tech, etc). Carmack is just 1 piece of the whole story, a story none of us have the full scope of just yet. There are 3 sides to every story...
What VR tech outside of code? A pair of sky goggles and electrical tape? Carmack jury rigged a headset to prototype his software.
Again, you nor I know the full scope of the story. For all we know yes, the jury rigged prototype. Maybe it contained hardware owned by Zenimax. Maybe he stole pens from Zenimax that he used to write code for the Rift on a cocktail napkin? We don't know. But, if OR and Zenimax had dealings at some point, then the one thing we do know is there is more to this story than Carmack's tweets and Zenimax's/OR's press quotes.
IP is not limited to code. It is ANY resource that was made available.
Again, 3 sides to every story and so far we are only hearing 2 of them.
There are 3 types of people in the world. 1.) Those who make things happen 2.) Those who watch things happen 3.) And those who wonder "What the %#*& just happened?!"
of course zen has a case. just because the majority of mmorpg users think they are smart, doesn't mean they actually are either, just vocal.
there are many cases where this has happened, but no matter what, it all boils down to the best spin doctoring and money, and in this case, now that oculus has been bought by facebook, they will win, but they will also be paying some cash to Zenimax.
besides, oculus is doomed to a dismal death anyways, sony has superior tech
It really doesn't help that Carmack was working for two companies at the same time, developing software for each, to do the same thing.
How does he prove that he didn't develop any code for the OR while he was at zenimax? I don't think he can, nor do I think he didn't. Zenimax shouldn't care that its not the same code, they were already paying him to do that for them and he was doing it for what would be a competitor at the same time.
This could actually prevent the Facebook aquisition from going through, which is what I think zenimax really cares about. They were working on creating a VR system of their own and the brainchild who was supposed to do that for them didn't just leave to work for the competition, he was working for them while they still employed him, and now Facebook is trying to get control of it. Zenimax could see this as the end of any chance of getting into the VR market, and may not settle for anything less than a stake in OR, and Facebook out of the picture.
will be interesting for sure to see the outcome, i dont want oculus to drift into obscurity btw, i actually did contribute, but i have serious doubts about the development, especially if this lawsuit does indeed have merit.
How does he prove that he didn't develop any code for the OR while he was at zenimax? I don't think he can, nor do I think he didn't. Zenimax shouldn't care that its not the same code, they were already paying him to do that for them and he was doing it for what would be a competitor at the same time.
Well the burden of proof would be on Zenimax to show that he did.
But this whole thing could be a calculated gamble from ZeniMax's side. They file suit hoping Carmack still reused some of the code or forgot to remove it all, and if that's the case they get a lot of value they otherwise might have missed.
OP, I have the impression that you are a bit simple minded and totally lack the business understanding.
Zenimax seems to have hired John Carmack for research and development on VR tech. As it seems, John Carmack did not deliver. Instead, he took the experience gathered and worked on Oculus Rift, VR tech that soon is market-ready.
If I was Zenimax I would be more than upset. Oculus Rift is to be said the next big thing in gaming and John Carmacks success seems to be based upon research and development he did for Zenimax - in part, in whole or not, is to be decided by court.
Zenimax didn't hire him, they bought id software where he worked as a programmer and Zenimax does not have any interest in vr tech he worked on engine development and other gaming related programming there, the oculus stuff he did in his own free time because he was interested in this tech.
Comments
Carjack was working on software to run a VR headset while he was at zenimax. Zenimax is claiming that that code is what's running the OR. If carjack had violated any contract he may have had with zenimax they would have already sued him, they haven't, nor have they ever said he did. They're accusing him of steeling code. That's what the IP running the OR is, software.
the complaint does not specify "code" firmware/hware can also be argued to "run" something
Carmack confirmed that zenimax is accusing him of stealing the code.
if so they're idiots, that's the easiest thing to murk the waters over. I tend to doubt they would take on FB's legal team over something that easily masked.
Maybe not.
Something Carmack said makes it sound like the code he created for zenimax never got patented. Both parties will have to prove that the code belongs to them. In particular OR will have to prove that Carmack didn't write the software OR uses while he was still at zenimax. That could be very difficult for them.
which is why I suspect in all their recent public communications Zen has spent a fair amount of time talking about the headsets not software.
It's not about the code. Or at least not all about the code. Zenimax assisted OR in many aspects, tech, code, you name it, under the condition that OR would not make this available to any 3rd party. They are not suing over code, but over the fact that they provided technology (Code, Hardware, etc) and assistance (processes, knowledge, etc) under an agreement and they feel now that agreement has been breached.
There are 3 types of people in the world.
1.) Those who make things happen
2.) Those who watch things happen
3.) And those who wonder "What the %#*& just happened?!"
what a joke.
zeni has 0 chance of gaining anything from this as i'm sure facebook knew about the legal issues when they purchased OR and apparently didn't think zeni had a leg to stand on.
I can tell a lot of you don't work with software development professionally or really any technical/engineering careers.
If he worked on anything for zenimax during his tenure, it belongs to zenimax. Patents mean jack shit. These agreements are in every business, its proprietary all the way down to the meeting notes you print out for your weekly TEM. its as simple as that.
Zenimax didn't help with the hardware. Luckey is responsible for that. He sent the hardware to carmack while he was still at zenimax. The only reason to send anything to carmack is because you want him to code something, that's what he does; he's not a hardware guy, he's a software genius.
Zenimax and Luckey were probably negotiating a deal where zenimax would provide the software to run the OR, and it fell through. Carmack liked what he saw and didn't want to miss out, so he left zenimax to developers the software to run OR; which is what he was supposedly doing while he was at zenimax. I'm sure this didn't piss zenimax off.
Carmack has said himself that this is all about the software running OR. Hence his comment about not a single line of code running OR was developed while he was at zenimax, and all the code he did develope at zenimax is already owned by zenimax.
On a tangent anyone know how many current titles under development intend(ed) to incorporate OR into their games? I'm pretty sure someone told me Elite Dangerous was planning on it, any others?
I wonder what this could do to their production cycles if this drags out as long as it has the potential to.
Or maybe don't they want to wait to meet Facebooks lawyers instead of Occulus...
of course zen has a case. just because the majority of mmorpg users think they are smart, doesn't mean they actually are either, just vocal.
there are many cases where this has happened, but no matter what, it all boils down to the best spin doctoring and money, and in this case, now that oculus has been bought by facebook, they will win, but they will also be paying some cash to Zenimax.
besides, oculus is doomed to a dismal death anyways, sony has superior tech
over 20 years of mmorpg's and counting...
Kinda had the same thought reading a lot of this thread.
I used to do ATE (Automated Test Equipment, a specialized form of industrial robotics) design for a living. The company I worked for owned everything from my mindless under-caffeinated morning doodles to any and all patentable ideas -- of which there were several. That's just the way it is, you know that going in.
Doing outside work for other companies -- and pretty much everyone I knew did, in such specialized fields consulting jobs paid ludicrously, even insanely well -- was always a dicey proposition and more than once I saw that sort of thing blow up. A few times as spectacularly, if not quite as publicly, as this.
Unless there are some really unusual mitigating circumstances here, I suspect Zeni pretty much has them dead to rights. Hard to say for sure, of course, without all the facts, a legal degree, and a working crystal ball, but the basics seem pretty simple and, at least in my experience, as reasonably close to cut-and-dried as such things tend to get.
"ZeniMax provided necessary VR technology and other valuable assistance to Palmer Luckey and other Oculus employees in 2012 and 2013 to make the Oculus Rift a viable VR product, superior to other VR market offerings." - From Zenimax.
Carmack may be just a code guy, but they are not just talking about him, they are talking about all the assistance they provided (tech, etc). Carmack is just 1 piece of the whole story, a story none of us have the full scope of just yet. There are 3 sides to every story...
There are 3 types of people in the world.
1.) Those who make things happen
2.) Those who watch things happen
3.) And those who wonder "What the %#*& just happened?!"
It really doesn't help that Carmack was working for two companies at the same time, developing software for each, to do the same thing.
How does he prove that he didn't develop any code for the OR while he was at zenimax? I don't think he can, nor do I think he didn't. Zenimax shouldn't care that its not the same code, they were already paying him to do that for them and he was doing it for what would be a competitor at the same time.
This could actually prevent the Facebook aquisition from going through, which is what I think zenimax really cares about. They were working on creating a VR system of their own and the brainchild who was supposed to do that for them didn't just leave to work for the competition, he was working for them while they still employed him, and now Facebook is trying to get control of it. Zenimax could see this as the end of any chance of getting into the VR market, and may not settle for anything less than a stake in OR, and Facebook out of the picture.
Where are you getting the information that ESO isn't selling well and that cod was over $250 million?
What VR tech outside of code? A pair of sky goggles and electrical tape? Carmack jury rigged a headset to prototype his software.
EDIT
to put it in a different light, Ask a pharmaceutical company to give up R&D rights no matter how big/small their contribution, see where it gets you
/EDIT
Again, you nor I know the full scope of the story. For all we know yes, the jury rigged prototype. Maybe it contained hardware owned by Zenimax. Maybe he stole pens from Zenimax that he used to write code for the Rift on a cocktail napkin? We don't know. But, if OR and Zenimax had dealings at some point, then the one thing we do know is there is more to this story than Carmack's tweets and Zenimax's/OR's press quotes.
IP is not limited to code. It is ANY resource that was made available.
Again, 3 sides to every story and so far we are only hearing 2 of them.
There are 3 types of people in the world.
1.) Those who make things happen
2.) Those who watch things happen
3.) And those who wonder "What the %#*& just happened?!"
will be interesting for sure to see the outcome, i dont want oculus to drift into obscurity btw, i actually did contribute, but i have serious doubts about the development, especially if this lawsuit does indeed have merit.
over 20 years of mmorpg's and counting...
But this whole thing could be a calculated gamble from ZeniMax's side. They file suit hoping Carmack still reused some of the code or forgot to remove it all, and if that's the case they get a lot of value they otherwise might have missed.
OP, I have the impression that you are a bit simple minded and totally lack the business understanding.
Zenimax seems to have hired John Carmack for research and development on VR tech. As it seems, John Carmack did not deliver. Instead, he took the experience gathered and worked on Oculus Rift, VR tech that soon is market-ready.
If I was Zenimax I would be more than upset. Oculus Rift is to be said the next big thing in gaming and John Carmacks success seems to be based upon research and development he did for Zenimax - in part, in whole or not, is to be decided by court.
Zenimax didn't hire him, they bought id software where he worked as a programmer and Zenimax does not have any interest in vr tech he worked on engine development and other gaming related programming there, the oculus stuff he did in his own free time because he was interested in this tech.
Zenimax is the most toxic and anti-innovation company within the gaming industry.
If they get hands on VR I am positive they will do nothing other than completely f8ck it up
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
Ooooo, maybe they'll be in the running for Worst Company of the Year next year!!! So excited!
Crazkanuk
----------------
Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
----------------