[Column] Rift: Eyes on Endgame

SBFordSBFord Associate Editor - News ManagerThe CitadelMMORPG.COM Staff LegendaryPosts: 25,845

As our columnist once more approaches the end game, he casts his eyes to the options that lay ahead. What are the prospects for a new player hitting the level cap? And what does Bindings of Blood tells us about the state of RIFT as a whole? Join us as we explore the late game in Tripping the Rift: Eyes on Endgame.

Read more of Christopher Coke's Tripping the Rift: Eyes on the Endgame.

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Comments

  • RazeeksterRazeekster GlobMember UncommonPosts: 2,591
    Rift's endgame is okay for a bit, but then the grind starts to get to you and it's just not fun... Especially grinding rep for GH5.

    Smile

  • AeonbladesAeonblades Home, GAMember Posts: 2,083

    Rift has very fun and involved end game raids. That being said, as another poster mentioned, it does get repetitive if you raid multiple times a week. The same can be said for any raid based end game MMO though. Rift does what it does well, it takes the WoW raid formula, increases the difficulty, but also retains the grind and "long haul" aspect.

     

    I'm hoping with expansion #2, they trade end game being nothing but raids and faction grinds for something more fun and less repetitive.

    Currently Playing: ESO and FFXIV
    Have played: You name it
    If you mention rose tinted glasses, you better be referring to Mitch Hedberg.

  • syriinxsyriinx New York, NYMember UncommonPosts: 1,383
    Originally posted by Aeonblades
     Rift does what it does well, it takes the WoW raid formula, increases the difficulty

    It does NOT increase the difficulty.

    Rift doesnt offer the easier difficulties, but WoW heroics are still on average tougher than Rift's raids.

     

  • AeonbladesAeonblades Home, GAMember Posts: 2,083
    Originally posted by syriinx
    Originally posted by Aeonblades
     Rift does what it does well, it takes the WoW raid formula, increases the difficulty

    It does NOT increase the difficulty.

    Rift doesnt offer the easier difficulties, but WoW heroics are still on average tougher than Rift's raids.

     

    I disagree, but you are certainly entitled to your opinion on that. I was able to hit 90 and finish all raids in 1.5 months in WoW

    (not LFR either), To me Rift offers more of the same at an increased level of difficulty. Difficulty is quite subjective though as I have come to find out over the years.

    Currently Playing: ESO and FFXIV
    Have played: You name it
    If you mention rose tinted glasses, you better be referring to Mitch Hedberg.

  • syriinxsyriinx New York, NYMember UncommonPosts: 1,383
    Originally posted by Aeonblades
    Originally posted by syriinx
    Originally posted by Aeonblades
     Rift does what it does well, it takes the WoW raid formula, increases the difficulty

    It does NOT increase the difficulty.

    Rift doesnt offer the easier difficulties, but WoW heroics are still on average tougher than Rift's raids.

     

    I disagree, but you are certainly entitled to your opinion on that. I was able to hit 90 and finish all raids in 1.5 months in WoW

    (not LFR either), To me Rift offers more of the same at an increased level of difficulty. Difficulty is quite subjective though as I have come to find out over the years.

    And you can do the same with the right guild in Rift.  I did notice that you said not LFR, but didnt say it was heroic.

    The biggest difference is in WoW there are guilds that have been around for years and raid like a well oiled machine.  And there is a much larger playerbase of skilled players.

    Its tougher to build a raiding guild in Rift.  Player base is more casual overall and the player pool is much, much smaller.

     

    Where Rift is undeniably more difficult is in the group content, but if you are at the point where you can raid in rift/heroic raid in WoW the dungeons are trivial anyway.

  • asmkm22asmkm22 Anchorage, AKMember Posts: 1,788
    Originally posted by Aeonblades
    Rift has very fun and involved end game raids. That being said, as another poster mentioned, it does get repetitive if you raid multiple times a week. The same can be said for any raid based end game MMO though. Rift does what it does well, it takes the WoW raid formula, increases the difficulty, but also retains the grind and "long haul" aspect.   I'm hoping with expansion #2, they trade end game being nothing but raids and faction grinds for something more fun and less repetitive.

    That's what WoW did, and they've lost subs for it.

    You make me like charity

  • VolgoreVolgore Member EpicPosts: 3,872

    I find it a bit odd that right after Defiance announces F2P and with Wildstar standing with big raiding endgame on the front porch we get an advertisement for Rift's raiding endgame.

    People complained alot when at some time Trion announced one raid after another and left many other systems broken, unfun, half assed etc.

     

    The raids are suppposed to be a better part of the game, but there isn't much of a raiding scene left in Rift. Raiding is about dead, PvP has always been a half assed joke not even working at times, endgame for casuals is bland grind for tokens.

     

    About the only thing Rift has going for it is a very well executed housing system. Faratha does her job very well and Hartsman can thank her on his knees for carrying the casual game that then carries the whole company.

     

    Edited for paragraphs. Fix your damn comments already.

     

     

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  • Jonas_SGJonas_SG LiverpoolMember UncommonPosts: 475

    Reading the titel i thought the game was shutting down.

     

  • TraceOfDustMitesTraceOfDustMites Schaumburg, ILMember Posts: 28
    Originally posted by Volgore
    I find it a bit odd that right after Defiance announces F2P and with Wildstar standing with big raiding endgame on the front porch we get an advertisement for Rift's raiding endgame. People complained alot when at some time Trion announced one raid after another and left many other systems broken, unfun, half assed etc.   The raids are suppposed to be a better part of the game, but there isn't much of a raiding scene left in Rift. Raiding is about dead, PvP has always been a half assed joke not even working at times, endgame for casuals is bland grind for tokens.   About the only thing Rift has going for it is a very well executed housing system. Faratha does her job very well and Hartsman can thank her on his knees for carrying the casual game that then carries the whole company.   Edited for paragraphs. Fix your damn comments already.    

    You should play Rift sometime, because it's clear you don't, or haven't in a long time. PVP is not half assed, clearly you have not tried PVP Shards. Conquest was thrown together and might fit your comment, but that's it.

    Raiding is still alive and challenging, my guild still loves to raid.

    I can see you have some anger and confrontation issues, so I won't be back to see your venom reply, but check it out again, great game.

    BTW, Hartsmann is an extremely talented, fair, hard working boss. Should probably take that into account before telling him to get on his knees.

    Have a great weekend!

  • VolgoreVolgore Member EpicPosts: 3,872
    Originally posted by TraceOfDustMites   You should play Rift sometime, because it's clear you don't, or haven't in a long time. PVP is not half assed, clearly you have not tried PVP Shards. Conquest was thrown together and might fit your comment, but that's it. Raiding is still alive and challenging, my guild still loves to raid. I can see you have some anger and confrontation issues, so I won't be back to see your venom reply, but check it out again, great game. BTW, Hartsmann is an extremely talented, fair, hard working boss. Should probably take that into account before telling him to get on his knees. Have a great weekend!

    1. I loved both my Cleric and Mage as i'm a healer at heart. Playing on the EU side, PvP-servers have been closed, merged, converted and whatnot since forever. In other words: EU-PvP has been dead years ago. Out of curiosity, i checked Riftstatus while i'm typing this.

    2. Yes, raiding is challenging but not alive. Times ago guilds complained already about no competition and lack of new recruits. Rift has great raids, but it's low popularity doesn't carry a healthy raiding scene.

    3. I see this was your first post here, while i'm around on this site for about 10 years (this is my 2nd account) -so what do you expect? ;) When one day you'll hit your 10th anniversay on these forums, you will understand any anger issues people have here... ;)

    4. I stand by Faratha carrying the game with doing an awesome job for the casual players. Without housing, there wouldn't be a Rift today -without Rift, no Trion.

    Nice weekend to you, too :)

    image
  • asmkm22asmkm22 Anchorage, AKMember Posts: 1,788
    Originally posted by Volgore
     

    1. I loved both my Cleric and Mage as i'm a healer at heart. Playing on the EU side, PvP-servers have been closed, merged, converted and whatnot since forever. In other words: EU-PvP has been dead years ago. Out of curiosity, i checked Riftstatus while i'm typing this.

    2. Yes, raiding is challenging but not alive. Times ago guilds complained already about no competition and lack of new recruits. Rift has great raids, but it's low popularity doesn't carry a healthy raiding scene.

    3. I see this was your first post here, while i'm around on this site for about 10 years (this is my 2nd account) -so what do you expect? ;) When one day you'll hit your 10th anniversay on these forums, you will understand any anger issues people have here... ;)

    4. I stand by Faratha carrying the game with doing an awesome job for the casual players. Without housing, there wouldn't be a Rift today -without Rift, no Trion.

    Nice weekend to you, too :)

    I think this is an inherent issue with any F2P mmo.  SWtOR has the same problems.

    Basically, F2P games are great for padding numbers and getting people to play for a bit and maybe buy some stuff from the cash shop, but they are horrible for retaining people in the long run.  It makes the game very bottom heavy, with the first few zones/planets/worlds well-populated, but leaves the end-game pretty bleak.

    The question that the dev's need to answer is why players start playing the games, but rarely stick with them.  

    The way I see it, the answer is people start playing them because they're free, not because they have any intention of committing.  This means that all F2P games are basically trying to fight an uphill battle by turning a mostly uninterested customer who has no desire to play longer than it takes for another F2P game to come out, into a customer who actively wants to stick with that game despite having other alternatives.

    Unfortunately, the "solution" to that problem is for dev's to not even bother trying to convert them.  They just accept that churn will be high, and base the business model on making as much money as possible from people in the short time they play the game.  Without a sub, they know they'll probably pick up the occasional person coming back for a week or two a few times a year to see what's changed.

    It works out for the person who doesn't care to "put down roots" with a game.  It works out for the dev's because they are still making money from cash shop impulse purchases.  Unfortunately, the people that get screwed over are the ones looking for a longer-term commitment.

    You make me like charity

  • syriinxsyriinx New York, NYMember UncommonPosts: 1,383
    Originally posted by asmkm22 I think this is an inherent issue with any F2P mmo.  SWtOR has the same problems. Basically, F2P games are great for padding numbers and getting people to play for a bit and maybe buy some stuff from the cash shop, but they are horrible for retaining people in the long run.  It makes the game very bottom heavy, with the first few zones/planets/worlds well-populated, but leaves the end-game pretty bleak. The question that the dev's need to answer is why players start playing the games, but rarely stick with them.    

    Rift's retention problems have nothing to do with the model.  It has abysmal retention as p2p.  i think a large part of it is that there is no character attachment due to the ultra short (at launch) leveling curve and the fact that you have no weaknesses to work around-you just change to new abilities to better fit the situation at will.

    SWtOR  also has a quick leveling curve, but the character story does give you a bit more attachment.  It wasnt as well made of a game as Rift at launch however, or more accurately it was much slower to address its launch issues than Rift.  Furthermore, the classes just arent that interesting.  

    Both games suffer from other issues.  Rift's world feels mostly soulless.   SWtOR has more personality, but both have inexcusably horrid racial choices.  SWtOR is a tad better here, but its inexcusable for a new IP and a Star Wars game to have such boring, mostly human characters.  And of course SWtORs world design leaves a lot to be desired.

    Bottom line is both games feel like they were made out of a desire to make a successful game than a desire to make a great game.  That is why players start playing them and rarely stick with them.  that is why they went f2p in the first place.

  • parpinparpin budapestMember UncommonPosts: 154

    mmo market is one of the most secure markets in gaming industry.check out game list of this site you will be amazed when you see how many mmos are out there making money and surviving. the only difference is some make small profit just to survive and some still make big profit like wow.

    rift is kinda in middle toward bottom of profitable mmos, all these mmos have faithfull core fans and rift also has those hard core raiders and still makes endgame for them making sure they are still happy example the latest T3 tier which is basically released for them and not intent for new comers or ex-rift players coming back to check the game. same goes for pvp with all its problems whomever stayed well they like it and trion is trying to keep them happy.

    as F2P they get newcomers all the time but they have no plans to change their end game to keep  those mostly casual and unfaithful players.they come they might buy some stuff from cash shop and they usually leave. like i said core faithful players are still keeping rift,swtor,and other F2P mmos alive but for how long.we will see.  

     

     
  • 43%burnt43%burnt StuttgartMember UncommonPosts: 162

    Is it an unwritten law to use the same two screenshots in every Rift column ?

     

  • TraceOfDustMitesTraceOfDustMites Schaumburg, ILMember Posts: 28
    Originally posted by Volgore
    Originally posted by TraceOfDustMites   You should play Rift sometime, because it's clear you don't, or haven't in a long time. PVP is not half assed, clearly you have not tried PVP Shards. Conquest was thrown together and might fit your comment, but that's it. Raiding is still alive and challenging, my guild still loves to raid. I can see you have some anger and confrontation issues, so I won't be back to see your venom reply, but check it out again, great game. BTW, Hartsmann is an extremely talented, fair, hard working boss. Should probably take that into account before telling him to get on his knees. Have a great weekend!

    1. I loved both my Cleric and Mage as i'm a healer at heart. Playing on the EU side, PvP-servers have been closed, merged, converted and whatnot since forever. In other words: EU-PvP has been dead years ago. Out of curiosity, i checked Riftstatus while i'm typing this.

    2. Yes, raiding is challenging but not alive. Times ago guilds complained already about no competition and lack of new recruits. Rift has great raids, but it's low popularity doesn't carry a healthy raiding scene.

    3. I see this was your first post here, while i'm around on this site for about 10 years (this is my 2nd account) -so what do you expect? ;) When one day you'll hit your 10th anniversay on these forums, you will understand any anger issues people have here... ;)

    4. I stand by Faratha carrying the game with doing an awesome job for the casual players. Without housing, there wouldn't be a Rift today -without Rift, no Trion.

    Nice weekend to you, too :)

    Volgore,

    Thanks for the post, you are right, I am new, so maybe I don't quite understand, hehe. I have been playing MMOs since UO beta, and have watched populations drop and watched some games die. Sad reality, but true.

    I agree about the housing comment, and Wildstar seems to have taken notice of the way Rift does housing and added to it. Thatwill be my next big game, as I have loved every momoent in beta.

    So my apologies sir, your reply was well written. Thank you.

  • MegashMegash enloeMember UncommonPosts: 17
    i lost interest in dis game, fkin awful later on also ;3
  • goozmaniagoozmania chino, CAMember UncommonPosts: 199

    The soul system is the game's biggest failure. As syriinx said, there is no attachment to your character. Being able to be whatever, on the fly, creates a multiplayer disconnect.

    All games with these systems fail, and will continue to fail... and yet developers continue to think they need to do it.

  • VorthanionVorthanion Laguna Vista, TXMember UncommonPosts: 2,499

    The naysayers are correct.  No matter the actual percentage, raiders are niche, just like pvpers in RPGs and crafters in adventuring games.  They keep adding raid content, because it's the easy way out.  Of course they're going to stick around if the company keeps making content for them.  Why would casuals stick around when they are ignored beyond the leveling and housing content?  I believe it's called a self fulfilling prophecy, one that has been proven in games like EverQuest and now Rift.

     

    Even the leveling game is tiresome as there are very few avenues of progression, so no matter what class you roll, you end up doing a lot of the same content with no option to level in a different zone within the same level range.  At least the hardcore daddy of them all, EQ, allowed people to level in 6 or more zones in each level range, allowing for some off the beaten path leveling.

    image
  • syriinxsyriinx New York, NYMember UncommonPosts: 1,383
    Originally posted by TraceOfDustMites I agree about the housing comment, and Wildstar seems to have taken notice of the way Rift does housing and added to it. Thatwill be my next big game, as I have loved every momoent in beta.  

    You mean they took notice of how EQ2 does housing

    Thats where Rift got it from (even the idea about reusing game zones as housing).  they did a fantastic job with it and Dreamweaver is neat, but EQ2 still does it better, if only because of the tremendous assortment of housing items due to EQ2 having been doing it for 10 years.  Rift didnt even have housing for most of Wildstar's development.

  • popezaphodpopezaphod Oswego, NYMember UncommonPosts: 56
    Trion has revamped the Lv50 10-man Drowned Halls into a Lv60 Intrepid version.  If they can continue to pump out new content as well as revising the old content, that would be exciting.
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