I think it's aimed more at the "the sky is falling" type of response, or those making Zenimax out to be the worst of the worst over issues like this. Perspective is key to have on all things, even when people are pissed over gaming issues.
I read the OP twice now to make sure and nope there is nothing 'sky is falling about it'. I think people who are in dire need of 'prespective' are the fans who are extremely intolerant to mention of any exploits, dupes or bugs currently making round in ESO.
Was it aimed at the OP though?
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Originally posted by Eladi Meh it was not a big issue at all. nobody is going to realy see any negative impact on the economics at all. thats the handy thing abound guild stores, you never will impact the entire game economics
The jury is still out on the impact to economy. It all depends on how long the dupe was being exploited and how Zenimax cleans up the mess.
Your assumption that Guild Stores / Guild Banks can't effect the greater game economy is wrong. I am in (3) Crafting guilds with over 300 members each, Trade chat is constantly spammed with us selling resources to players outside our guild. There is no universal Auction house so many people are playing the role of distributor and leveraging Guild Bank/Store resources on the open market.
Being able to Dupe resources / items is a HUGE problem in a player / crafter driven game. Sadly with a single mega Server the damage isn't localized to just one set of players like most multiserver MMOs.
That's true people do try and keep exploits under wraps, but the whole thing about it's been reported many times, yet we have no real actual threads to show for it is the part that gets me. WIth so many people who comb the net for ammunition like this, it just seems odd it would take so long, had it been reported many times before, and ignored by Zen. That's the kind of thing trolls live for.
I'm not saying it didn't happen, as that would be foolish, I just want to see where and how it's been reported "over and over" before this week as many have been saying, in different threads/sites on this issue. They all show the same source when asked. The sources I pointed out above.
Yeah know what you mean, the only explanation i can think of is people did post, but due to it exposing a exploit, which you can only do by explaining how it's done, threads where deleted or the other is people reported it by other means, which didn't reveal it to other players. so not the forums, only tickets, emails or something.
Anyway hopefully it get sorted, but do feel quite a bit of damage has been done already
Because 'it happened in ever MMO' is a typical response to deflect the attention from ESO. Only because it happened in every MMO some how makes it OK if it happened in ESO too.
It wasn't ok when it happened in other MMOS and it is still not ok when it happened in ESO. People like these would only be satisfied when no one would bring up the current dupes and exploits going on in game anywhere on internet. As if that will make the problem go away.
I think it's not a typecal response to deflect attention from ESO, it's a response when people try to make up as if it's unique to ESO.
The problem is known by Zenimax, they are working on it. Do you really think people need to post more about something that is being worked on? Yeah some might be effected even if they didn't do anything wrong so they say.
Also tried to find any info about ESO in beta where someone found this dupe and reported it. So for me that is still a rumor that it has been reported unless someone is able to show me proof.
And just because it might not effect me, played so many MMORPG that had major dupe problems, doesn't mean it shouldn't be fixed asap.
Yes, I really think people need to post more about something that is being worked on, thanks for asking....
ESO is a product, Zenimax is a business, we should talk about how good or bad the product is and how well or poorly the business is being run.
Originally posted by DirtyDozen So instead of doing your own story you reference rumors and a story from another site... I think I'm done with this site.
name me ONE mmo that didnt have probs with dupes, bots or whatnot. and no. it's not getting eaiser with the years. the engines got more and more complex, so, the only way to REALLY judge a company is how they deal with those probs, and seeing all those "why am i banned?! i didnt do anything wrong!" posts yesterday.... i'd say ESO is on the right way
So far I only have praise for how Zenimax handles the issues that arise with ESO. And not only bug issues like this dupe thing, but also important feedback like the party treasure sharing they have picked up immediately.
And I agree that engines and games in general are getting more and more complex, so issues like these are bound to happen. And of course, some players (and goldsellers) will exploit them for their own profit. Personally I find it real sad that people need to cheat to accomplish something in a game - where's their sense of pride..?
name me ONE mmo that didnt have probs with dupes, bots or whatnot. and no. it's not getting eaiser with the years. the engines got more and more complex, so, the only way to REALLY judge a company is how they deal with those probs, and seeing all those "why am i banned?! i didnt do anything wrong!" posts yesterday.... i'd say ESO is on the right way
So far I only have praise for how Zenimax handles the issues that arise with ESO. And not only bug issues like this dupe thing, but also important feedback like the party treasure sharing they have picked up immediately.
And I agree that engines and games in general are getting more and more complex, so issues like these are bound to happen. And of course, some players (and goldsellers) will exploit them for their own profit. Personally I find it real sad that people need to cheat to accomplish something in a game - where's their sense of pride..?
I honestly can't decide if you are so naive or so cynical...
"When you make an MMO, you will eventually learn a hard lesson about how a single bug can derail your entire game. Right now, that’s exactly what’s happening with The Elder Scrolls Online."
i laugh it when noobs post about mmos. his first mmo to play i guess.
name me ONE mmo that didnt have probs with dupes, bots or whatnot. and no. it's not getting eaiser with the years. the engines got more and more complex, so, the only way to REALLY judge a company is how they deal with those probs, and seeing all those "why am i banned?! i didnt do anything wrong!" posts yesterday.... i'd say ESO is on the right way
yea right, you all got banned because you did nothing *G* suuuure
playing online for about 20 years now. got banned for every random reason... but NEVER because i did NOTHING.
Even before i clicked on the topic i knew someone would already have posted 'but it happens in every MMO'
I'm not sure why people get bent out of shape about said response, it does happen in many MMO's. They all go on after, people do act like it's the first game it's happened to as well as "the end" in every case. So that part is the same.
Where were you and Thane when this happened in Neverwinter? That game raked over the coals and lambasted over this. Fast forward to ESO prerelease and people kept praising its subscription model and how that meant quality and a better experience all the while trashing F2P games and how they're crap.
I personally don't think these sorts of things are a big deal in the long run. In a few months this will all be diluted and players won't notice its effect. So while I don't think it will end up being that big of a deal, I also don't think this game deserves to be taken to task any less than the others. I also think we shouldn't write off this sort of thing when any game does it. Stop giving devs and pubs a free pass when they mess up on this scale.
This will also be something I can refer to when people pull out that idiotic P2P superiority b.s.
"When you make an MMO, you will eventually learn a hard lesson about how a single bug can derail your entire game. Right now, that’s exactly what’s happening with The Elder Scrolls Online."
i laugh it when noobs post about mmos. his first mmo to play i guess.
name me ONE mmo that didnt have probs with dupes, bots or whatnot. and no. it's not getting eaiser with the years. the engines got more and more complex, so, the only way to REALLY judge a company is how they deal with those probs, and seeing all those "why am i banned?! i didnt do anything wrong!" posts yesterday.... i'd say ESO is on the right way
yea right, you all got banned because you did nothing *G* suuuure
playing online for about 20 years now. got banned for every random reason... but NEVER because i did NOTHING.
Even before i clicked on the topic i knew someone would already have posted 'but it happens in every MMO'
I'm not sure why people get bent out of shape about said response, it does happen in many MMO's. They all go on after, people do act like it's the first game it's happened to as well as "the end" in every case. So that part is the same.
Where were you and Thane when this happened in Neverwinter? That game raked over the coals and lambasted over this. Fast forward to ESO prerelease and people kept praising its subscription model and how that meant quality and a better experience all the while trashing F2P games and how they're crap.
I personally don't think these sorts of things are a big deal in the long run. In a few months this will all be diluted and players won't notice its effect. So while I don't think it will end up being that big of a deal, I also don't think this game deserves to be taken to task any less than the others. I also think we shouldn't write off this sort of thing when any game does it. Stop giving devs and pubs a free pass when they mess up on this scale.
This will also be something I can refer to when people pull out that idiotic P2P superiority b.s.
P2P games are better quality than F2P games but it has absolutely nothing to do with bugs. It has more to do the quality of the community/players not the game design. That being said, there are idiots in all games regardless of the pay model. It just seems to me that the communities are far and away better in P2P games than F2P. Besides, games that are designed to be F2P or B2P feel like empty shells of what they should be. I've talked to more people in ESO since early access than I have in all the F2P games I've played combined.
Besides, bugs are going to be in all software, the payment has absolutely ZERO to do with it.
P2P games are better quality than F2P games but it has absolutely nothing to do with bugs. It has more to do the quality of the community/players not the game design. That being said, there are idiots in all games regardless of the pay model. It just seems to me that the communities are far and away better in P2P games than F2P. Besides, games that are designed to be F2P or B2P feel like empty shells of what they should be. I've talked to more people in ESO since early access than I have in all the F2P games I've played combined.
Besides, bugs are going to be in all software, the payment has absolutely ZERO to do with it.
No, just no. P2P games aren't better quality than F2P games. And no the communities aren't better on P2P games, that's just a myth. And for your information, you're beloved P2P ESO game is an empty shell compared to real ES games. ESO could've be A LOT more than what it is, but nope, it's just another generic themepark MMO with an ES skin.
Originally posted by Eladi Meh it was not a big issue at all. nobody is going to realy see any negative impact on the economics at all. thats the handy thing abound guild stores, you never will impact the entire game economics
Yea, because freely duping stacks of mats... what could possibly go wrong.
The dupe bug is a big issue, but not unique to ESO. Pretty much every MMO has had a big issue like this that tilted the economy out of whack. Maybe it can be fixed with banning a couple guys who did this 24hrs/day, maybe the servers have to be rolled back. Yea, remember how you stayed up for 48 hours power leveling? Oops!! Sorry about that.
However, the real issue is -- was this exact bug really reported during beta? THAT would be a big deal if ZOS knew about this and didn't fix it.
They did not ban all of them... i know people who did it and mailed or traded a lot of gold to others so even if they ban them personally they can`t do anything about the other people who got the gold legit and may now know its from a dupe.
The economy is now thrashed and from what i can tell they only banned the people who did it too much... and kept it.
There is really no way to recover from this the only way for them to manually review every account but that would take months and in that time people will spend the money and so on.... no way for them to keep track of all of it.
Nice game but they are really doing all they can to ruin it... if it fails - and it looks like they didn`t sell that much anyway - its because they way they handled it by ignoring beta bug reports, making the maintenance during peak hours and so on...
Serious problem is serious people. Defend a game you want for VALID reasons. You NEED to be tough when they do mess ups and make sure they take responsibility. Having it 'hand waved' like Blizzard did with their blunder in D3 ended up destroying the gold action house, creating an environment where prices inflated out of control do to so much duped gold being flooded into the market due to their desire to not roll back and act upon things to a great extent. Rollbacks suck, I know, but in that case it ruined the market, to the point I am pretty confident that incident was one of the major components to lead to the closing of the in game Auction House.
Its a big bug and Im sure it was reported before. To be fair I'm sure a LOT of bugs are reported that are passed over, whether lacking enough to mimic the supposed bug or just not having enough reports to warrent it as being 'real'. Its still an issue they need to be up front with the customer about and they need to act direct to the issue. It might end up calling for a roll back if they don't have the resources to account for 'fudged' items, but if its just hand waved with only those who did it banned, it will leave a permanent scar upon the game economy.
Shutting down the good banks was not the only action they took. A few of my friends were banned from the game because they were wrongly selected in Zenimax's hundred-thousand-person ban hammer.
I and anyone else should understand the massive amount of code that goes into a game,so mistakes will happen.
The only problem i have is if it was known before launch and not addressed.That has become and ever growing topic the last year or so,developers abusing the term BETA and not really trying to fix anything but using it as a pre-order gimmick and to entice marketing strategies.
Everything is fixable if they keep logs and abusers should have some form of actions taken against them for trying to cheat the game and their fellow players.I think Zeni was trying to downplay it when they said it was a one day occurrence,i highly doubt that since it was supposedly mentioned during Beta.That tells me they have no plan to remedy past infractions.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Originally posted by DirtyDozen So instead of doing your own story you reference rumors and a story from another site... I think I'm done with this site.
...Forbes. Forbes. Not "some other website".
Forbes has a reputation that exceeds anything in gaming. Period. Forbes is highly respected throughout the World.
I think if Forbes is covering it we can safely assume its a pretty good source.
Not forbes, forbes.com the website doesnt have nearly as good of a reputation or pedigree as the magazine.
This is getting ridiculous, just few minutes ago I was made aware of another exploit that allows to create crafting materials and gold in any desired amount... At this point even the roll back is meaningless, the economy will be trashed again. How the hell this game was labeled as ready for release?
I kinda agree with the posters who are saying this won't be a big deal. The Fed has been flooding the real economy with dollars, and it really hasn't had much of an effect other than making Wall Street richer. Most players won't play the game economy to the point where they will notice the currency depreciation.
Originally posted by DirtyDozen So instead of doing your own story you reference rumors and a story from another site... I think I'm done with this site.
...Forbes. Forbes. Not "some other website".
Forbes has a reputation that exceeds anything in gaming. Period. Forbes is highly respected throughout the World.
I think if Forbes is covering it we can safely assume its a pretty good source.
A reddit thread is a pretty good soure? I like Reddit, I like Forbes, but any article using a forum as a source is not "pretty good". However does not take away the guy (DirtyDozen) is overreacting. I like it that MMORPG.com is pointing to some interesting articles (with this was btw).
Brought up many times, yet didn't blow up like this, I'm still waiting to see proof of this. SO far all I've seen is easily manipulated sources (editable review (with multiple edits the last week), screen saved forum entry). I find it hard to believe it would take this long to blow had that been the case.
Everyone already forgotten about Neverwinter?
Was pretty much the same thing! Huge dupe bug that went into launch and People abused it for over 2 weeks before action was taken.
And all Cryptic did was an small rollback that did Jack shit about the problem! People just got away with it. lol.
At least Zenimax is actually taking action and swinging the banhammer! And not the token action Cryptic did to wipe it under the carpet and pretend it never happened. /facepalm
But I can see this having serious concequences in the game!
Have fun with PVP as legit player from now on. This just makes the already existing imbalance worse.
Originally posted by Vallador This is getting ridiculous, just few minutes ago I was made aware of another exploit that allows to create crafting materials and gold in any desired amount... At this point even the roll back is meaningless, the economy will be trashed again. How the hell this game was labeled as ready for release?
Bugs like these will happen. Not much you can do about it to prevent them, you can only stay on your toes and handle it when you find out. Like several people getting 1,000,000 gold over night, flag that stuff and call in the cavalry. Maybe get in touch with these people, tell them: show us how you got that money; if you reveal the exploit, we'll just confiscate the gold/mats from you, but you keep your account, or else!
Feel bad for the people enjoying this game, but I think it s about to implode. I said from day 1 it feels like an amateur MMO, well, it seems like it, in more ways then 1.
Comments
Was it aimed at the OP though?
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
The jury is still out on the impact to economy. It all depends on how long the dupe was being exploited and how Zenimax cleans up the mess.
Your assumption that Guild Stores / Guild Banks can't effect the greater game economy is wrong. I am in (3) Crafting guilds with over 300 members each, Trade chat is constantly spammed with us selling resources to players outside our guild. There is no universal Auction house so many people are playing the role of distributor and leveraging Guild Bank/Store resources on the open market.
Being able to Dupe resources / items is a HUGE problem in a player / crafter driven game. Sadly with a single mega Server the damage isn't localized to just one set of players like most multiserver MMOs.
Yeah know what you mean, the only explanation i can think of is people did post, but due to it exposing a exploit, which you can only do by explaining how it's done, threads where deleted or the other is people reported it by other means, which didn't reveal it to other players. so not the forums, only tickets, emails or something.
Anyway hopefully it get sorted, but do feel quite a bit of damage has been done already
Yes, I really think people need to post more about something that is being worked on, thanks for asking....
ESO is a product, Zenimax is a business, we should talk about how good or bad the product is and how well or poorly the business is being run.
Cry me a river.
So far I only have praise for how Zenimax handles the issues that arise with ESO. And not only bug issues like this dupe thing, but also important feedback like the party treasure sharing they have picked up immediately.
And I agree that engines and games in general are getting more and more complex, so issues like these are bound to happen. And of course, some players (and goldsellers) will exploit them for their own profit. Personally I find it real sad that people need to cheat to accomplish something in a game - where's their sense of pride..?
I honestly can't decide if you are so naive or so cynical...
Agree
P2P games are better quality than F2P games but it has absolutely nothing to do with bugs. It has more to do the quality of the community/players not the game design. That being said, there are idiots in all games regardless of the pay model. It just seems to me that the communities are far and away better in P2P games than F2P. Besides, games that are designed to be F2P or B2P feel like empty shells of what they should be. I've talked to more people in ESO since early access than I have in all the F2P games I've played combined.
Besides, bugs are going to be in all software, the payment has absolutely ZERO to do with it.
Anyway... another big bug/exploit in this game.... another reason not to play it...
l2p
No, just no. P2P games aren't better quality than F2P games. And no the communities aren't better on P2P games, that's just a myth. And for your information, you're beloved P2P ESO game is an empty shell compared to real ES games. ESO could've be A LOT more than what it is, but nope, it's just another generic themepark MMO with an ES skin.
Yea, because freely duping stacks of mats... what could possibly go wrong.
The dupe bug is a big issue, but not unique to ESO. Pretty much every MMO has had a big issue like this that tilted the economy out of whack. Maybe it can be fixed with banning a couple guys who did this 24hrs/day, maybe the servers have to be rolled back. Yea, remember how you stayed up for 48 hours power leveling? Oops!! Sorry about that.
However, the real issue is -- was this exact bug really reported during beta? THAT would be a big deal if ZOS knew about this and didn't fix it.
They did not ban all of them... i know people who did it and mailed or traded a lot of gold to others so even if they ban them personally they can`t do anything about the other people who got the gold legit and may now know its from a dupe.
The economy is now thrashed and from what i can tell they only banned the people who did it too much... and kept it.
There is really no way to recover from this the only way for them to manually review every account but that would take months and in that time people will spend the money and so on.... no way for them to keep track of all of it.
Nice game but they are really doing all they can to ruin it... if it fails - and it looks like they didn`t sell that much anyway - its because they way they handled it by ignoring beta bug reports, making the maintenance during peak hours and so on...
Serious problem is serious people. Defend a game you want for VALID reasons. You NEED to be tough when they do mess ups and make sure they take responsibility. Having it 'hand waved' like Blizzard did with their blunder in D3 ended up destroying the gold action house, creating an environment where prices inflated out of control do to so much duped gold being flooded into the market due to their desire to not roll back and act upon things to a great extent. Rollbacks suck, I know, but in that case it ruined the market, to the point I am pretty confident that incident was one of the major components to lead to the closing of the in game Auction House.
Its a big bug and Im sure it was reported before. To be fair I'm sure a LOT of bugs are reported that are passed over, whether lacking enough to mimic the supposed bug or just not having enough reports to warrent it as being 'real'. Its still an issue they need to be up front with the customer about and they need to act direct to the issue. It might end up calling for a roll back if they don't have the resources to account for 'fudged' items, but if its just hand waved with only those who did it banned, it will leave a permanent scar upon the game economy.
didn't think a launch could be more disastrous than The Old Republic
how embarrassing
I and anyone else should understand the massive amount of code that goes into a game,so mistakes will happen.
The only problem i have is if it was known before launch and not addressed.That has become and ever growing topic the last year or so,developers abusing the term BETA and not really trying to fix anything but using it as a pre-order gimmick and to entice marketing strategies.
Everything is fixable if they keep logs and abusers should have some form of actions taken against them for trying to cheat the game and their fellow players.I think Zeni was trying to downplay it when they said it was a one day occurrence,i highly doubt that since it was supposedly mentioned during Beta.That tells me they have no plan to remedy past infractions.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Not forbes, forbes.com the website doesnt have nearly as good of a reputation or pedigree as the magazine.
A reddit thread is a pretty good soure? I like Reddit, I like Forbes, but any article using a forum as a source is not "pretty good". However does not take away the guy (DirtyDozen) is overreacting. I like it that MMORPG.com is pointing to some interesting articles (with this was btw).
Everyone already forgotten about Neverwinter?
Was pretty much the same thing! Huge dupe bug that went into launch and People abused it for over 2 weeks before action was taken.
And all Cryptic did was an small rollback that did Jack shit about the problem! People just got away with it. lol.
At least Zenimax is actually taking action and swinging the banhammer! And not the token action Cryptic did to wipe it under the carpet and pretend it never happened. /facepalm
But I can see this having serious concequences in the game!
Have fun with PVP as legit player from now on. This just makes the already existing imbalance worse.
Bugs like these will happen. Not much you can do about it to prevent them, you can only stay on your toes and handle it when you find out. Like several people getting 1,000,000 gold over night, flag that stuff and call in the cavalry. Maybe get in touch with these people, tell them: show us how you got that money; if you reveal the exploit, we'll just confiscate the gold/mats from you, but you keep your account, or else!