I guess things will mix up. The main problem with P2P right now is, the games aren't created to be played for long anymore. Many people cap within the 30 days that usually come with buying the game and get bored. Then they do not see any reason to pay anymore and move on. Nowadays MMOs seem to be made with the single player notion of "winning" the game and having a storyline. This leads to the problem of less replayability (sp?). I like to try several chars and playstyles, but get bored to have to go through the same storyline again and again with no diversity whatsoever. When games were more open you could just chose if you go out hunting, questing, this map in the level range, or that map in the level range. You had choices and felt part of a world and community.
I miss some kind of growing P2P rate that caps. I sometimes quit P2P games after not having much time for two months or so and still had to fully pay. I would have been more inclined to play if it was some rate per hour, like 0,25$/€ and caps at 15€/$, which would be about 60h of gameplay (average fo about 2 hours/day). this way people with less time will support the game without cash shop, but not have to pay the full fee, which is a put off if you have less time at hand.
I guess things will mix up. The main problem with P2P right now is, the games aren't created to be played for long anymore. Many people cap within the 30 days that usually come with buying the game and get bored. Then they do not see any reason to pay anymore and move on. Nowadays MMOs seem to be made with the single player notion of "winning" the game and having a storyline. This leads to the problem of less replayability (sp?). I like to try several chars and playstyles, but get bored to have to go through the same storyline again and again with no diversity whatsoever. When games were more open you could just chose if you go out hunting, questing, this map in the level range, or that map in the level range. You had choices and felt part of a world and community.
I miss some kind of growing P2P rate that caps. I sometimes quit P2P games after not having much time for two months or so and still had to fully pay. I would have been more inclined to play if it was some rate per hour, like 0,25$/€ and caps at 15€/$, which would be about 60h of gameplay (average fo about 2 hours/day). this way people with less time will support the game without cash shop, but not have to pay the full fee, which is a put off if you have less time at hand.
You could always move to china for that bit...otherwise... we are about 15-18 years past that type of sub.
Somehow I doubt the costs were capped back then, were they? So after 60h/month it doesn't matter if you play 60h or 120h, same price. I like flexibility and dislike the F2P "pay for another quickbar" method. Paying per hour with a cost cap seems more fair, at least to me.
Some of you guys seem to be forgetting something. Hybrid models are both F2P AND P2P. You cannot call Rift and SWTOR F2P only anymore than you can call WoW P2P only. WoW, Rift, & SWTOR, all have some level of F2P and yet still earn revenue from subscriptions. P2P isn't going anywhere.
And those were just 3 off the top of my head. How many other games are currently still operating that still earn revenues from subscribers?
The term is freemium, although I would not call WoW's limited edition as either F2P nor freemium. It's a free trial, with unlimited duration, using a fixed very low level cap.
Aion is still up and running, and they tried the "Truly F2P" model to give the entire game away as F2P without any gameplay restrictions. Can't say it's fully profitable, but I applaud the effort.
WoW caps a lot of things in it's F2P model. But that's not the point. The point is, they are earning money through subscriptions as are many other "F2P" games even beyond these three. Don't LOTRO and AOC still offer subscription options?
WoW does not have a F2P model. Limited time periods are not F2P either, with your other examples.
I'm not sure what your point was.
EVE has a free trial period too, but it isn't F2P.
"I'm not sure what your point was."
"The point is, they are earning money through subscriptions..."
Does that help? Not sure how I can make it any simpler than that.
Of course free samples help sell a product.
But you are mixing freemium with F2P, with free trials scattered in. Freemium folks are expected to pay extra.
OK, how about I say it like this.
Subscriptions aren't going away. Boxed fees probably are. And Cash shops will be a standard.
As far as free tp play goes, well, I'm not sure where to put that one. But Freemium as you called it, is probably where most games will end up. Or at least the most profitable ones.
(This is my crystal ball prediction and there are no facts to back that up. Just what I think will happen.)
If box prices go away, then that implies the quality of games will go up to justify subscriptions. If true, I'm OK with that.
I'm not totally there with you on subscriptions + cash shop being standard but we'll see. If I pay a sub, I'd rather have everything available in-game, personally. Screw the cash-shop. No matter how long or hard it takes, there should never be a cash-shop to belittle everyone elses experiences, with a credit card.
I think you are getting my 2 options confused into one, Which I can see why when I re read my post, It's confusing.
Anyway. Cash Shops will be standard. Not Cash Shops and a Sub. Although Subs will be an option, they won't be required to play.
I say boxed fees will go away, because WoW has discovered that with it's numerous expansions, the boxed fee has become a road block for getting started in the game. Who's going to pay for all those boxed expansions before they can even sign in? While they haven't totally eliminated the boxed fee, they have at least made it competitive to get started vs any other MMO on the market.
So what I see is a game that has F2P as it's base with unlockable features if you wish to pay A-La-Carte. And on top of that, you will have subscription plans with different costs that have different options too.
Basically, I am predicting future models will be like Rift and SWTOR, the way they are now, but combine them with the subscription model like FFXIV, you will see what is to come but without boxed fees.
Guess what OP? Subscription games are going to be the ones to outlast the rest. Need a little proof? Check out EQ... 15 years on, and still kicking. In that same time period, how many true F2P/cash-shop/P2W games have come up and bit the dust?
If you think that F2P games are the future, look down at your udders, cause you are the type that those gaming companies like to milk.
Doesn't EQ have a f2p option ? and really how many f2p games have shut down at all ? Can you name even one. I can think of 4 or 5 big name titles that where p2p that have... maybe it's just because it's 4 am but I actually can't come up with a single f2p title that's shut down.
Guess what OP? Subscription games are going to be the ones to outlast the rest. Need a little proof? Check out EQ... 15 years on, and still kicking. In that same time period, how many true F2P/cash-shop/P2W games have come up and bit the dust?
If you think that F2P games are the future, look down at your udders, cause you are the type that those gaming companies like to milk.
Doesn't EQ have a f2p option ? and really how many f2p games have shut down at all ? Can you name even one. I can think of 4 or 5 big name titles that where p2p that have... maybe it's just because it's 4 am but I actually can't come up with a single f2p title that's shut down.
There are some that have. You just don't hear much about them because they were never really big news to start with. Black Prophecy was one. NCSoft shut down a few MMOs like Exteel and Auto Assault. I know G-Potato shut down several titles.....Or discontinued them, not sure. I know they used to have more titles than what they have now.
The problem is that some games change publishers so it's hard to track. (Allods and 9 Dragons are 2 such games)
The problem with the 1st post here, is that it speaks from the time when subscription only games whet F2P to extend life. But that's not the case anymore.Cash Shops are no longer just a a tool for an aging P2P title to prolong it's life cycles. Even healthy games have learned their is an untapped revenue stream in MTs. That's why you can buy pets and mounts in WoW.
Guess what OP? Subscription games are going to be the ones to outlast the rest. Need a little proof? Check out EQ... 15 years on, and still kicking. In that same time period, how many true F2P/cash-shop/P2W games have come up and bit the dust?
If you think that F2P games are the future, look down at your udders, cause you are the type that those gaming companies like to milk.
Doesn't EQ have a f2p option ? and really how many f2p games have shut down at all ? Can you name even one. I can think of 4 or 5 big name titles that where p2p that have... maybe it's just because it's 4 am but I actually can't come up with a single f2p title that's shut down.
There are some that have. You just don't hear much about them because they were never really big news to start with. Black Prophecy was one. NCSoft shut down a few MMOs like Exteel and Auto Assault. I know G-Potato shut down several titles.....Or discontinued them, not sure. I know they used to have more titles than what they have now.
The problem is that some games change publishers so it's hard to track. (Allods and 9 Dragons are 2 such games)
The problem with the 1st post here, is that it speaks from the time when subscription only games whet F2P to extend life. But that's not the case anymore.Cash Shops are no longer just a a tool for an aging P2P title to prolong it's life cycles. Even healthy games have learned their is an untapped revenue stream in MTs. That's why you can buy pets and mounts in WoW.
Guess what OP? Subscription games are going to be the ones to outlast the rest. Need a little proof? Check out EQ... 15 years on, and still kicking. In that same time period, how many true F2P/cash-shop/P2W games have come up and bit the dust?
If you think that F2P games are the future, look down at your udders, cause you are the type that those gaming companies like to milk.
Doesn't EQ have a f2p option ? and really how many f2p games have shut down at all ? Can you name even one. I can think of 4 or 5 big name titles that where p2p that have... maybe it's just because it's 4 am but I actually can't come up with a single f2p title that's shut down.
There are some that have. You just don't hear much about them because they were never really big news to start with. Black Prophecy was one. NCSoft shut down a few MMOs like Exteel and Auto Assault. I know G-Potato shut down several titles.....Or discontinued them, not sure. I know they used to have more titles than what they have now.
The problem is that some games change publishers so it's hard to track. (Allods and 9 Dragons are 2 such games)
The problem with the 1st post here, is that it speaks from the time when subscription only games whet F2P to extend life. But that's not the case anymore.Cash Shops are no longer just a a tool for an aging P2P title to prolong it's life cycles. Even healthy games have learned their is an untapped revenue stream in MTs. That's why you can buy pets and mounts in WoW.
Auto Assault was a sub game.
Did I miss the question?
I thought he asked for F2P tites that were never P2P.
Guess what OP? Subscription games are going to be the ones to outlast the rest. Need a little proof? Check out EQ... 15 years on, and still kicking. In that same time period, how many true F2P/cash-shop/P2W games have come up and bit the dust?
If you think that F2P games are the future, look down at your udders, cause you are the type that those gaming companies like to milk.
Doesn't EQ have a f2p option ? and really how many f2p games have shut down at all ? Can you name even one. I can think of 4 or 5 big name titles that where p2p that have... maybe it's just because it's 4 am but I actually can't come up with a single f2p title that's shut down.
There are some that have. You just don't hear much about them because they were never really big news to start with. Black Prophecy was one. NCSoft shut down a few MMOs like Exteel and Auto Assault. I know G-Potato shut down several titles.....Or discontinued them, not sure. I know they used to have more titles than what they have now.
The problem is that some games change publishers so it's hard to track. (Allods and 9 Dragons are 2 such games)
The problem with the 1st post here, is that it speaks from the time when subscription only games whet F2P to extend life. But that's not the case anymore.Cash Shops are no longer just a a tool for an aging P2P title to prolong it's life cycles. Even healthy games have learned their is an untapped revenue stream in MTs. That's why you can buy pets and mounts in WoW.
Auto Assault was a sub game.
Did I miss the question?
I thought he asked for F2P tites that were never P2P.
I was a beta tester for Auto Assault, it was never a F2P or B2P game it was sub only (P2P).
Future games will start off as a Kickstarter, then charge for alpha access, beta access, and early access. You'll have to buy the game in Hobo Edition, Deluxe Edition, Imperial Swag Edition, or Koch Brothers Edition. There will be a cash shop at launch, as well as a 'voluntary' subscription which provides an 'enhanced experience.'
After 4 weeks there will be an paid 'expansion', although the code was downloaded at launch....
Future games will start off as a Kickstarter, then charge for alpha access, beta access, and early access. You'll have to buy the game in Hobo Edition, Deluxe Edition, Imperial Swag Edition, or Koch Brothers Edition. There will be a cash shop at launch, as well as a 'voluntary' subscription which provides an 'enhanced experience.'
After 4 weeks there will be an paid 'expansion', although the code was downloaded at launch....
LOL,
Sadly, when we account for the humor in your post, we are already seeing a lot of this.
Future games will start off as a Kickstarter, then charge for alpha access, beta access, and early access. You'll have to buy the game in Hobo Edition, Deluxe Edition, Imperial Swag Edition, or Koch Brothers Edition. There will be a cash shop at launch, as well as a 'voluntary' subscription which provides an 'enhanced experience.'
After 4 weeks there will be an paid 'expansion', although the code was downloaded at launch....
LOL,
Sadly, when we account for the humor in your post, we are already seeing a lot of this.
Considering most P2P-only players say "If you can afford a burger you can afford a sub" the voluntary bit kinda falls off in that frame of logic.
Future games will start off as a Kickstarter, then charge for alpha access, beta access, and early access. You'll have to buy the game in Hobo Edition, Deluxe Edition, Imperial Swag Edition, or Koch Brothers Edition. There will be a cash shop at launch, as well as a 'voluntary' subscription which provides an 'enhanced experience.'
After 4 weeks there will be an paid 'expansion', although the code was downloaded at launch....
LOL,
Sadly, when we account for the humor in your post, we are already seeing a lot of this.
Considering most P2P-only players say "If you can afford a burger you can afford a sub" the voluntary bit kinda falls off in that frame of logic.
That was part of the "humor" I was referring to. Or at least, I took that part as sarcasm.
I was thinking more about his comment about developers charging money to access games at all stages of developed as well as giving larger in-game bonuses for more expensive editions.
I was a beta tester for Auto Assault, it was never a F2P or B2P game it was sub only (P2P).
OK then scratch that one.
(I must have been thinking of something else then. I thought that was a F2P game)
here is a list of F2P game that was shut down http://mmohuts.com/editorials/mmo-graveyard . It's outdated, but there is a couple of titles which were p2p that went f2p before closing also.
f2p is already dominant. LoL has more players than WoW, and TOR is only successful after turning f2p. Hence, i doubt there will be many p2p-only hold out except WoW.
F2P isn't a valid system for MMORPG's.
Because the cost of the investment is too big without a planned steady money flow of subscriptions.
F2P is great for such games like LOL or Hearthstone: limited maps/cards/content.
And don't believe the PR bullshit talk of EA: TOR is not the 1 billion dollar project they were dreaming off when it was launched.
Examples: SW TOR has less than 25% of its initial server parc these days (somewhere around 50+).
Rift started with 99 full servers at launch. They now have ... 15 half filled as a F2P...
So even the F2P games don't hold on to their player base and the revenue is MUCH more sketchy/unstable.
Examples: SW TOR has less than 25% of its initial server parc these days (somewhere around 50+).
who cares about server numbers when it makes more than $200M in 2013 .. any way you cut it .. $200M is a financial success .. though not as big as the one for LoL.
Examples: SW TOR has less than 25% of its initial server parc these days (somewhere around 50+).
who cares about server numbers when it makes more than $200M in 2013 .. any way you cut it .. $200M is a financial success .. though not as big as the one for LoL.
And THERE is the crux of the problem. The PLAYERS care, because they want to play a vibrant game, not a dying one. Cash grabs, which most originally developed F2P games really are, do their best during their initial months, and afterwards, die down quick. Go look up anything from R2games, and you will see what I mean. A steady stream of F2P games with cash shops that go through the exact same lifelines.
Games that were once only sub games, but went limited F2P (also known as freemium, or subscription games with 0 entry cost), are not true F2P games, and using them as examples as to how "F2P is the future" is illegitimate. Show me the F2P games that started that way from the get go, and are still viable today, and I will be impressed.
Comments
I guess things will mix up. The main problem with P2P right now is, the games aren't created to be played for long anymore. Many people cap within the 30 days that usually come with buying the game and get bored. Then they do not see any reason to pay anymore and move on. Nowadays MMOs seem to be made with the single player notion of "winning" the game and having a storyline. This leads to the problem of less replayability (sp?). I like to try several chars and playstyles, but get bored to have to go through the same storyline again and again with no diversity whatsoever. When games were more open you could just chose if you go out hunting, questing, this map in the level range, or that map in the level range. You had choices and felt part of a world and community.
I miss some kind of growing P2P rate that caps. I sometimes quit P2P games after not having much time for two months or so and still had to fully pay. I would have been more inclined to play if it was some rate per hour, like 0,25$/€ and caps at 15€/$, which would be about 60h of gameplay (average fo about 2 hours/day). this way people with less time will support the game without cash shop, but not have to pay the full fee, which is a put off if you have less time at hand.
You could always move to china for that bit...otherwise... we are about 15-18 years past that type of sub.
I think you are getting my 2 options confused into one, Which I can see why when I re read my post, It's confusing.
Anyway. Cash Shops will be standard. Not Cash Shops and a Sub. Although Subs will be an option, they won't be required to play.
I say boxed fees will go away, because WoW has discovered that with it's numerous expansions, the boxed fee has become a road block for getting started in the game. Who's going to pay for all those boxed expansions before they can even sign in? While they haven't totally eliminated the boxed fee, they have at least made it competitive to get started vs any other MMO on the market.
So what I see is a game that has F2P as it's base with unlockable features if you wish to pay A-La-Carte. And on top of that, you will have subscription plans with different costs that have different options too.
Basically, I am predicting future models will be like Rift and SWTOR, the way they are now, but combine them with the subscription model like FFXIV, you will see what is to come but without boxed fees.
Doesn't EQ have a f2p option ? and really how many f2p games have shut down at all ? Can you name even one. I can think of 4 or 5 big name titles that where p2p that have... maybe it's just because it's 4 am but I actually can't come up with a single f2p title that's shut down.
There are some that have. You just don't hear much about them because they were never really big news to start with. Black Prophecy was one. NCSoft shut down a few MMOs like Exteel and Auto Assault. I know G-Potato shut down several titles.....Or discontinued them, not sure. I know they used to have more titles than what they have now.
The problem is that some games change publishers so it's hard to track. (Allods and 9 Dragons are 2 such games)
The problem with the 1st post here, is that it speaks from the time when subscription only games whet F2P to extend life. But that's not the case anymore.Cash Shops are no longer just a a tool for an aging P2P title to prolong it's life cycles. Even healthy games have learned their is an untapped revenue stream in MTs. That's why you can buy pets and mounts in WoW.
Auto Assault was a sub game.
Did I miss the question?
I thought he asked for F2P tites that were never P2P.
I was a beta tester for Auto Assault, it was never a F2P or B2P game it was sub only (P2P).
OK then scratch that one.
(I must have been thinking of something else then. I thought that was a F2P game)
Future games will start off as a Kickstarter, then charge for alpha access, beta access, and early access. You'll have to buy the game in Hobo Edition, Deluxe Edition, Imperial Swag Edition, or Koch Brothers Edition. There will be a cash shop at launch, as well as a 'voluntary' subscription which provides an 'enhanced experience.'
After 4 weeks there will be an paid 'expansion', although the code was downloaded at launch....
The possibility of the universe collapsing into a singularity is higher than the birth of a perfect MMORPG.
LOL,
Sadly, when we account for the humor in your post, we are already seeing a lot of this.
Considering most P2P-only players say "If you can afford a burger you can afford a sub" the voluntary bit kinda falls off in that frame of logic.
That was part of the "humor" I was referring to. Or at least, I took that part as sarcasm.
I was thinking more about his comment about developers charging money to access games at all stages of developed as well as giving larger in-game bonuses for more expensive editions.
here is a list of F2P game that was shut down http://mmohuts.com/editorials/mmo-graveyard . It's outdated, but there is a couple of titles which were p2p that went f2p before closing also.
<InvalidTag type="text/javascript" src="http://www.gamebreaker.tv/cce/e.js"></script><div class="cce_pane" content-slug="which-world-of-warcraft-villain-are-you" ctype="quiz" d="http://www.gamebreaker.tv"></div>;
F2P isn't a valid system for MMORPG's.
Because the cost of the investment is too big without a planned steady money flow of subscriptions.
F2P is great for such games like LOL or Hearthstone: limited maps/cards/content.
And don't believe the PR bullshit talk of EA: TOR is not the 1 billion dollar project they were dreaming off when it was launched.
Examples: SW TOR has less than 25% of its initial server parc these days (somewhere around 50+).
Rift started with 99 full servers at launch. They now have ... 15 half filled as a F2P...
So even the F2P games don't hold on to their player base and the revenue is MUCH more sketchy/unstable.
With a surge of people paying and leaving p2p has been shown to not be a reliable source of revenue
who cares about server numbers when it makes more than $200M in 2013 .. any way you cut it .. $200M is a financial success .. though not as big as the one for LoL.
And THERE is the crux of the problem. The PLAYERS care, because they want to play a vibrant game, not a dying one. Cash grabs, which most originally developed F2P games really are, do their best during their initial months, and afterwards, die down quick. Go look up anything from R2games, and you will see what I mean. A steady stream of F2P games with cash shops that go through the exact same lifelines.
Games that were once only sub games, but went limited F2P (also known as freemium, or subscription games with 0 entry cost), are not true F2P games, and using them as examples as to how "F2P is the future" is illegitimate. Show me the F2P games that started that way from the get go, and are still viable today, and I will be impressed.
LoL
WoT
Marvel Heroes
Maple Stories
War Thunder
Navyfield 1 (enough to garner a sequel)
Mabinogi
Vindictus
Path of Exile (sketchy still but thriving from what I know)
Warframe
Dwarf Fortress (had to go there, sorry XD )
Entropia (while the real money economy is sketchy you can play completely free though you will be working for it)
Hawken
8bit MMO
Neverwinter
DotA 2
Star Conflict
Planetside 2
Spiral Knights
Perfect World
Forsaken World
(list continues).
And that list COMBINED will not have enough concurrent players as the top 3 or 4 Sub games.
And before you go there: I am not talking about total accounts... I am talking about actual people playing at a single point in time.
Just LoL has more concurrent players than probably all sub MMORPGs combined.
http://www.destructoid.com/league-of-legends-has-32-million-monthly-active-players-236618.phtml
They have 30+M active players each month. How many subs are there left? 7-8M from wow, half a mil here and there .. .probably not even 10M in total.