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Mortal Online - Pay to Win

CaptainObviousCaptainObvious CoventryPosts: 39Member

Hello,

 

There has been discussion for some time now on the subject of is Mortal Online Pay 2 Win. Well I think that is down to every individual to decide however I will bring something to your attention. 

 

There is currently a Keep in the game that has almost double the health points of any other keep. It stands with 26 million hp where as any other keep has 16 million or similar. The reason every other keep has the same hp is because when you build a keep in game, no matter what materials you use the keep will end up with the same health. This means that every keep across the game is on the same level. 

 

There used to be methods to raise the health of a keep through better materials or 'passive' building. Both of these mechanics were taken out of the game years ago as they allowed players to gain an advantage over others and for balance issues.

 

The Keep in game with 26 million hp belongs to a guild called The Guttersnipes, whos leader is Diphrael. This keep has a long past. Over the last year it has belonged to several guilds. A single player called Electrum owned the keep. When he owned it the keep had 16 million hp and the systems to gain any more were already out of the game. The keep was blown up. DC owned it after this and the taxes ran out, so it was destroyed. It was then rebuilt by GM's and given to an old DC member. Quad took control of the keep spot after this. Still the keep was 16 million hp. Quad then sold the Keep to The Guttersnipes. Somewhere between the point of sale and now the keep gained 10 million hp somehow. 

 

Now then, this could just be some bug or mistake, which is what I first thought. However after I brought this to the attention of the GM and support team this was their response -

 

Me - 

 

March 22.2014/04.45PM

Hello,

 

I would like to bring your attention to the Guttersnipes Keep. For some reason it has 10 Million more hp than any other keep in the game. When this keep was sold from Quad to Guttersnipes it had exactly the same as any other keep - 16 mil hp.

Somehow, this managed to turn into 26 Million hp. There is no possible in game way to make this happen. Material no longer matters when it comes to the hp of a keep and you have not been able to passive build for around 2 year. 

I am sure this is a mistake. Can it please be reverted to the same HP as every other keep in the game?

Thank you.

 

Customer Support -

March 24.2014/06:26AM

This keep has already been discussed with the Lead Game Master (Discord). The hit points will remain cause it was built when you could auto build and get more hit points than by building it by hand. We will not discuss this issue anymore our decision has been made.

 

Me -

March 24,2014/01:40PM

The problem is as I have stated and your logs will clearly show, this keep was built over a year after auto build was taken out of the game. When it was built it had 16 million hp. It was then sold to the guttersniped by Quad. It was not rebuilt or amended yet it gained 10 million hp somehow. Sorry but your explination does not make any sense.

 

Customer support -

March 25,2014/11:57AM

I told you the issue was brought to us to late for us to get the logs, to verify anything so we decided we will not interfere and it will remain at what it is. 

 

Ok, So putting the rude and unproffesional attitude of the support staff aside, they quite obviously do not want to amend this problem. I would like to point out that I had one of my towers rebuilt by a GM once, due to it blowing up thanks to a bug. The GM replaced it with too many hit points. Later that same week it was reverted back to normal HP. Why can this not be done for the keep in question? 

 

Anyway, Why am I bringing the question of is Mortal Pay to Win into this?

 

Diphrael, Leader of Guts, Owner of the Keep. Top 5 Donator of all time. I guess money does get you some privillages. 

 

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Comments

  • TheLizardbonesTheLizardbones Arkham, VAPosts: 10,910Member

    That's not pay 2 win.  Unless of course they paid money to have the extra HP.

     

    I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  • ShyaticShyatic Hell, NJPosts: 41Member

    The sheer fact you continue to play the game despite what has been obvious nefarious acts by the GMs and management of the game, actually befuddles me.

    Insanity repeating the same behavior, and expecting a different result. So man, you're nuts to play this game at all.

  • DakeruDakeru Posts: 1,646Member Uncommon

    As soon as I read the title I remembered all those posts over the years and the corrupt GM team.

    So I wasn't surprised that they refer to Discord.

    Someone paid him and now they are hushing up about the incident.

    It's as simple as that.

    I have an entitlement delusion - because I have this strange idea that my 50$ should have the same value as anyone else's 50$
    "Your account is not entitled to the same value as a new account. Just saying you are entitled to the same as someone else because you said so is exactly what expresses your entitlement issues."

  • CaptainObviousCaptainObvious CoventryPosts: 39Member
    The community is currently having its say on the MO forums. The VAST majority think that this is an outrage that needs to be fixed asap. Lets see how long before the GMs step in and censor everyone who does not agree with what they are doing.
  • AnubisanAnubisan Boulder, COPosts: 1,801Member

    I don't see how this makes MO pay to win...

    That being said, I definitely don't agree with GUTS being able to keep their super-keep with 26 million HP. It isn't fair and pretty much the entire community other than GUTS members is in agreement on this.

    It is not fair to say this is a case of GM corruption, however. The mechanic that was used to buff the keep's hitpoints was legal at the time that this was done. This mechanic was later corrected and it is now impossible for anyone else to do the same thing, but it still wasn't considered an exploit. The GMs have been unwilling to take away the advantage from the GUTS keep because significant resources were expended to give the keep those extra HP. They're in a tough situation now because they'll piss off a lot of people no matter what they do.

    Personally I think they should just reduce the HP to the same level as the other keeps. I'm sure that will piss off GUTS, but it's only fair and will make the rest of the community happy.

  • monaroqmonaroq melbournePosts: 5Member
  • monaroqmonaroq melbournePosts: 5Member
    Originally posted by Anubisan

    I don't see how this makes MO pay to win...

    That being said, I definitely don't agree with GUTS being able to keep their super-keep with 26 million HP. It isn't fair and pretty much the entire community other than GUTS members is in agreement on this.

    It is not fair to say this is a case of GM corruption, however. The mechanic that was used to buff the keep's hitpoints was legal at the time that this was done. This mechanic was later corrected and it is now impossible for anyone else to do the same thing, but it still wasn't considered an exploit. The GMs have been unwilling to take away the advantage from the GUTS keep because significant resources were expended to give the keep those extra HP. They're in a tough situation now because they'll piss off a lot of people no matter what they do.

    Personally I think they should just reduce the HP to the same level as the other keeps. I'm sure that will piss off GUTS, but it's only fair and will make the rest of the community happy.

    All complete lies and mistruths.  The keep was built nearly 2 years after the mechanic you mention was removed from the game.  3 previous owners of this keep confirmed it had normal HP until Guts purchased it less than a year ago.

    Guts have had assistance in making their keep almost double the strength of every other keep and they DID NOT use legit means to do this because there are no legit ways to do it.  The GMs were the ones that added the HP and they are the ones refusing to fix this.  MO is as corrupt a game as I have seen and now they are just deleting any comments asking why this is the case. 

    MO is a great game ruined by corrupt support staff.  Very sad.

  • DakeruDakeru Posts: 1,646Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by monaroq

    Official response

     

    http://s4.postimg.org/3roz5rd65/discord.jpg

    "It doesn't matter what everyone says"

     

    Lol

    I have an entitlement delusion - because I have this strange idea that my 50$ should have the same value as anyone else's 50$
    "Your account is not entitled to the same value as a new account. Just saying you are entitled to the same as someone else because you said so is exactly what expresses your entitlement issues."

  • ScizyrScizyr Minneapolis, MNPosts: 15Member
    I played during beta and was thinking of playing this game so I came here to see the current state of the game as told by its community. I'm glad I did, I see it is just as corrupt as it was back then.  Thanks for the information OP, fuck Mortal Online.
  • udonudon Durham, NCPosts: 1,767Member Uncommon
    I don't play the game but if the whole server is in outrage why not just gang up and burn the keep the ground?
  • argiropargirop AthensPosts: 300Member
    Originally posted by udon
    I don't play the game but if the whole server is in outrage why not just gang up and burn the keep the ground?

    It makes more sense to gang up and burn SV to the ground. As long as they will be running MO, incidents like this one will keep reapearing. Seriously stop paying your money to them.

  • CaptainObviousCaptainObvious CoventryPosts: 39Member

    I would like to point out that after this thread was posted and the MO community was made aware of what happened there was outrage in the community. 

     

    A thread was made on the MO forums with a vote, asking for the community to vote on the situation in an attempt to show the powers what the community wants.

     

    Within an hour the decision was obvious. The votes to have the keep reverted back to normal HP FAR outweighed those asking for it to stay at normal hp. After some digging it also showed that the only people voting for it to remain at the hp it was, were members of the owning faction. 

     

    This was a simple dicussion and there was no claims of wrong doing or exploitation. The GM and Mod team removed it and replied Discord replied with 'I do not care what anyone says or the opinion of the community. The decision has been made and the keep will remain at that HP'. The thread was then deleted and anyone making more threads were threatened with bans. 

     

    This sort of behaviour from the moderation and GM team is killing this game. 

  • argiropargirop AthensPosts: 300Member
    Originally posted by CaptainObvious

    I would like to point out that after this thread was posted and the MO community was made aware of what happened there was outrage in the community. 

     

    A thread was made on the MO forums with a vote, asking for the community to vote on the situation in an attempt to show the powers what the community wants.

     

    Within an hour the decision was obvious. The votes to have the keep reverted back to normal HP FAR outweighed those asking for it to stay at normal hp. After some digging it also showed that the only people voting for it to remain at the hp it was, were members of the owning faction. 

     

    This was a simple dicussion and there was no claims of wrong doing or exploitation. The GM and Mod team removed it and replied Discord replied with 'I do not care what anyone says or the opinion of the community. The decision has been made and the keep will remain at that HP'. The thread was then deleted and anyone making more threads were threatened with bans. 

     

    This sort of behaviour from the moderation and GM team is killing this game. 

    You are killing the game by allowing that kind of behaviour.

  • CaptainObviousCaptainObvious CoventryPosts: 39Member
    It is not a matter of allowing it. any post that even suggests that there is a problem is instantly deleted. Even from their steam page which they rule with an iron fist. Anyone who complains loudly enough is threatened with bans. 
  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Boca Raton, FLPosts: 4,504Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by CaptainObvious
    It is not a matter of allowing it. any post that even suggests that there is a problem is instantly deleted. Even from their steam page which they rule with an iron fist. Anyone who complains loudly enough is threatened with bans. 

    As they have done for 4 years... yet some people still give them money and even DONATE to keep their company open.

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Starvault's reponse to criticism related to having a handful of players as the official "test" team for a supposed MMO: "We've just have another 10ish folk kind enough to voulenteer added tot the test team" (SIC) This explains much about the state of the game :-)

  • argiropargirop AthensPosts: 300Member
    Originally posted by CaptainObvious
    It is not a matter of allowing it. any post that even suggests that there is a problem is instantly deleted. Even from their steam page which they rule with an iron fist. Anyone who complains loudly enough is threatened with bans. 

    Dont tell this to me m8. I didnt even bothered to post on official MO forums since the employ from customer care service told me that he will not lift my ban due to the fact that my post history is totaly negative towards SV even though my ban period was long time gonne. Also getting a second account banned (a totaly legitmate account linked to my second ingame account- which was bought back in the day and had an active sub) for "multiaccounting" the same time that donors where using multiple accounts just to praise MO and SV, helped my understood that SV doesnt want to improve MO nor discuss about its problems and draw a line towards solving them. They simply want to hide all the dirt under the carpet and seperate customers from their money. 

    As sooner as you realize that your only weapon against practises as the one that you described is your wallet, the less time you will waste on MO around and around griefing situations like the favouritism regarding Guts keep.

  • ToferioToferio RandomPosts: 1,403Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by monaroq

    Official response

     

    http://s4.postimg.org/3roz5rd65/discord.jpg

    Read: "We don't give a shit about our players and do what we want".

  • NajwalaylahNajwalaylah I fell asleep in the Desert, CAPosts: 85Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by CaptainObviousDiphrael, Leader of Guts, Owner of the Keep. Top 5 Donator of all time. I guess money does get you some privillages.
    A very accurate report of the facts that seem to evince this conclusion.

    You might be guessing wrong, but anyone who guesses as you do can be forgiven for doing so.

    The bottom line for me is that Star Vault has done nothing to rectify the situation (which is unfair on its face), and thereby has propagated the idea, true or not, that this is a "boughten privilege" conferred onto one of their donators.

    I don't think that's true, but that doubt of mine conveys little benefit in the face of the ongoing uncorrected situation.

    Star Vault repeatedly removes discussion of what should be done about the Keep With One Million Extra HP, and this includes any. Even discussion that doesn't contain allegations of cheating or favoritism.

    I barf my hands in disgust.

    Casilda Tametomo, Priestess of Soldeus | AKA Lepida Aegis-Imperium.com

    image
    «Si oblitus fuero usque ad finem omnia opera eorum»

  • ZeerahaZeeraha ZagrebPosts: 67Member
    Originally posted by Najwalaylah

     


    Originally posted by CaptainObviousDiphrael, Leader of Guts, Owner of the Keep. Top 5 Donator of all time. I guess money does get you some privillages.
    A very accurate report of the facts that seem to evince this conclusion.

     

    You might be guessing wrong, but anyone who guesses as you do can be forgiven for doing so.

    The bottom line for me is that Star Vault has done nothing to rectify the situation (which is unfair on its face), and thereby has propagated the idea, true or not, that this is a "boughten privilege" conferred onto one of their donators.

    I don't think that's true, but that doubt of mine conveys little benefit in the face of the ongoing uncorrected situation.

    Star Vault repeatedly removes discussion of what should be done about the Keep With One Million Extra HP, and this includes any. Even discussion that doesn't contain allegations of cheating or favoritism.

    I barf my hands in disgust.

    If the accusations hold the truth, why not all other guilds do a boycott by not paying a sub for a few months? This would hurt the SV more than keeping GUTS satisfied with +10M HP on their keep.

  • ToferioToferio RandomPosts: 1,403Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Zeeraha
    Originally posted by Najwalaylah

     


    Originally posted by CaptainObviousDiphrael, Leader of Guts, Owner of the Keep. Top 5 Donator of all time. I guess money does get you some privillages.
    A very accurate report of the facts that seem to evince this conclusion.

     

    You might be guessing wrong, but anyone who guesses as you do can be forgiven for doing so.

    The bottom line for me is that Star Vault has done nothing to rectify the situation (which is unfair on its face), and thereby has propagated the idea, true or not, that this is a "boughten privilege" conferred onto one of their donators.

    I don't think that's true, but that doubt of mine conveys little benefit in the face of the ongoing uncorrected situation.

    Star Vault repeatedly removes discussion of what should be done about the Keep With One Million Extra HP, and this includes any. Even discussion that doesn't contain allegations of cheating or favoritism.

    I barf my hands in disgust.

    If the accusations hold the truth, why not all other guilds do a boycott by not paying a sub for a few months? This would hurt the SV more than keeping GUTS satisfied with +10M HP on their keep.

    Because they lack spine and willpower to put their favorite game away for a month.

  • TheLizardbonesTheLizardbones Arkham, VAPosts: 10,910Member
    Originally posted by CaptainObvious

    I would like to point out that after this thread was posted and the MO community was made aware of what happened there was outrage in the community. 

     

    A thread was made on the MO forums with a vote, asking for the community to vote on the situation in an attempt to show the powers what the community wants.

     

    Within an hour the decision was obvious. The votes to have the keep reverted back to normal HP FAR outweighed those asking for it to stay at normal hp. After some digging it also showed that the only people voting for it to remain at the hp it was, were members of the owning faction. 

     

    This was a simple dicussion and there was no claims of wrong doing or exploitation. The GM and Mod team removed it and replied Discord replied with 'I do not care what anyone says or the opinion of the community. The decision has been made and the keep will remain at that HP'. The thread was then deleted and anyone making more threads were threatened with bans. 

     

    This sort of behaviour from the moderation and GM team is killing this game. 

     

    Not to beat a dead horse, but it's not like the game is really thriving to begin with.

     

    I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  • AnubisanAnubisan Boulder, COPosts: 1,801Member
    Originally posted by Zeeraha

    If the accusations hold the truth, why not all other guilds do a boycott by not paying a sub for a few months? This would hurt the SV more than keeping GUTS satisfied with +10M HP on their keep.

    People are definitely upset about it, but most don't consider what happened to be an exploit, so it's not a big enough deal to do anything about. Most people I've talked to also don't consider this to be a case of favoritism by the GMs. GUTS just happened to utilize a legal game mechanic during a brief period where it was possible to do so.

    GUTS is also part of a major defensive alliance that controls most of the map, so the majority of the other guilds don't consider them a real enemy and won't take any action against them.

  • drakes821drakes821 Magnoll, FLPosts: 522Member Uncommon
    I've been an off and on MO supporter since beta, but it needs to die. The staff just doesn't deserve anyone's money, they are unprofessional and corrupt.
  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Boca Raton, FLPosts: 4,504Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Anubisan
    Originally posted by Zeeraha

    If the accusations hold the truth, why not all other guilds do a boycott by not paying a sub for a few months? This would hurt the SV more than keeping GUTS satisfied with +10M HP on their keep.

    People are definitely upset about it, but most don't consider what happened to be an exploit, so it's not a big enough deal to do anything about. Most people I've talked to also don't consider this to be a case of favoritism by the GMs. GUTS just happened to exploit a game mechanic during a brief period where it was possible to do so.

    GUTS is also part of a major defensive alliance that controls most of the map, so the majority of the other guilds don't consider them a real enemy and won't take any action against them.

    You state two different things in the very same paragraph....image

     

     

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Starvault's reponse to criticism related to having a handful of players as the official "test" team for a supposed MMO: "We've just have another 10ish folk kind enough to voulenteer added tot the test team" (SIC) This explains much about the state of the game :-)

  • JacxolopeJacxolope Jackson, MIPosts: 924Member
    Originally posted by drakes821
    I've been an off and on MO supporter since beta, but it needs to die. The staff just doesn't deserve anyone's money, they are unprofessional and corrupt.

    Yeah- But unprofessional and corrupt has been SV's SOP since before day 1.

    It isnt going to 'ust die' and nothing will change either. There is a segment of gamers who play this game and continue to pay (and donate ) while either turning a blind eye to the corruption or just really not care. SV knows this and thus why would they ever change?

    Its sad but true. Until the Kickstarter fad I would say SV was the shadiest company I have ever seen. People didnt stop paying them then and they wont now. This is spreading across the entire gaming world too- People will even defend their favorite brand as if saying anything they perceive as negative to be a personal attack on someone like their mother.

     

    And gaming companies (in this case SV) know this.

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