the conclusion would and has bean that that those who practiced meaning thought about their skill and action improved people over those that did not think about their skills. And the nd group that just did whatever without any effort or thoughts did not improve over a control group
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
Originally posted by VengeSunsoar the conclusion would and has bean that that those who practiced meaning thought about their skill and action improved people over those that did not think about their skills. And the nd group that just did whatever without any effort or thoughts did not improve over a control group
So would those people be tested for the same period of time? Or different periods of time?
because the practice had more effect then the ones that did whatever and the ones that did whatever showed no difference from the control therefore just time was not a determining factorpractice was
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
I work in a job that I drive everyday a lot I may be better than most drivers but I am nowhere near as good as a race car driver that may sirens less hours driving but focuses on improving everyday.
Originally posted by VengeSunsoar because the practice had more effect then the ones that did whatever and the ones that did whatever showed no difference from the control therefore just time was not a determining factorpractice was
No, you're really confused. Time would make no difference if it NEVER made a difference. As in you have to have two people do the same thing, with the same level of intelligence, etc, and vary their time. You CANNOT have them do two different things, see that those two different things do have an effect and then assume that time does not. You didn't test time. You tested practice. We know that practice has an effect on skill. That doesn't mean that time doesn't have an effect on skill.
Originally posted by Fenrir767 I work in a job that I drive everyday a lot I may be better than most drivers but I am nowhere near as good as a race car driver that may sirens less hours driving but focuses on improving everyday.
Yes, I know this. Nobody disputes this. The question is, holding all other things constant, does time spent doing something have a relationship with an increase in your competency in that thing? I think the answer is a big fat: OF COURSE!
It is not about just doing it. Someone going through the motions without any thought does not get better
Getting better takes effort and thought.
Holding a ball wearing the heart and bring in a gym throwing a ball every one in a while no matter how much time you spend doing that will not make you better than someone who spend 25 a day actively practicing their technique.
Improvements are about cognition.
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
What happen to mmo's now? I remember when a mmo where a challenge. One play style, players adapting to the content, true team play, real player communities, Countless hours of dying and few players ever reaching really top level/gear because of hard work. But now, reaching top level can be done in a weekend, content is adjusted for the player so they can get through it, everything can be solo'ed in a weekend.
What makes anyone think the next two big mmo's coming out will be anything different? I mean, it more of the same. Will there be anything different? I mean really. The last 2 AAA mmo's I played, reaching top level was easy, I rarely died, leveling was a joke, getting high-end gear was not that difficult. I did most of that with a month's time. After, 3 months, I had no interest in continuing to play. Does anyone really thing the AAA games Wildstar online or Elder scrolls online will last that long?
I've played some of the best AAA mmo's out there, daoc, wow, rift, gw2, ac and with each new mmo the games gets easier. I'm here to bash but I can't see next two mmos as something that will change anything. Does anyone really seeing themselves play ESO or Wildstar for 6 months or longer?
Maybe it not just mmo's but video games in general. I watched this youtube post by Review Tech USA some up everything I felt.
We live in a world where instant gratification is synonym with fun. People do not want to invest time any more. People want everything now and served on a silver platter.
This starts in school where you don't even have to be good any more, you just need to show up and you will be pushed along with everyone else even if you read and write like a 8 year old. The "No child left behind" generation created a flood of stupid and ignorant people.
Look at single player games, they are on the same track with some notable exceptions. All these games are easy and can be completed in a few hours.
The best part is that the gaming industry can now sell broken and unfinished games for AAA full price or more and people will defend them by saying: "It's an Alpha/Beta/Early Access it's supposed to have bugs", "It will be fixed in ...", "No game was ever released without Bugs".
Originally posted by StonesDK Why play a MMO that's going to reward me in three months time, when I can get rewarded in WoW by tomorrow if i start now?
Because, for me, it's not rewarding if everyone can do it in a few hours/days. The sense of accomplishment is completely gone from the modern MMORPG or game in general.
You know you lose all credibility when you make long posts like this then turn around and support games like FFXIV?
I always say words are cheap. Your actions is what it matters. I have no problem with current MMOS so you won't see any double standards from my side.
If you are so unhappy with the way current MMOS are being made..stop supporting the companies. Otherwise why even bother making posts like these.
If both are actively practicing the one that spends mute time, all other things being equal, Will get better. Not just because of the time but because of the EXTRA practice.
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
Originally posted by VengeSunsoar No the answer is a big fat no.
It is not about just doing it. Someone going through the motions without any thought does not get better
Getting better takes effort and thought.
Holding a ball wearing the heart and bring in a gym throwing a ball every one in a while no matter how much time you spend doing that will not make you better than someone who spend 25 a day actively practicing their technique.
Improvements are about cognition.
Nobody said "just doing it." I don't know why you keep assuming that these people are just doing through the motions without thinking about it. They're thinking about it as much as anybody else. Again, holding all things constant, time matters. HOLDING ALL THINGS CONSTANT. I don't understand this. Nobody is saying it's JUST time. What I'm saying is if the only thing we know about the two groups (casual players and hardcore players) is how much time they spend playing the game, then it's safe to assume that they will tend to be more skilled at it. Why on earth are you assuming that these people aren't thinking about it?
the truck driver practice is driving for 8 to 15 hours a day the race car practices driving for 5 to 8 hours a day the race car driver is better it is not about the time it is about the cognition
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
Originally posted by VengeSunsoar the truck driver practice is driving for 8 to 15 hours a day the race car practices driving for 5 to 8 hours a day the race car driver is better it is not about the time it is about the cognition
That's where you're wrong. It is about the time. That doesn't mean it's ONLY about the time, but it IS ABOUT THE TIME. You can't practice at all with out time, right? And the amount that you practice has a relationship with your skill, right? So time does matter.
Originally posted by VengeSunsoar I don't think they are Just gOing through the motion. I'm refuting your statement that time is the must important aspect. It is not.
Originally posted by VengeSunsoar When I have said time is not the most important. You have repeatedly said no.
In truth what you said is that time doesn't matter. I've said it does matter.
Again, show me where I said that time is the most important factor. And by the way, I'm sure you'll take me saying this as an opportunity to slip away from answering the previous question but I'm gonna say it anyway, time probably is the most important factor because nothing else matters without time. You will literally learn ZERO without time.
Originally posted by VengeSunsoar When I have said time is not the most important. You have repeatedly said no.
In truth what you said is that time doesn't matter. I've said it does matter.
Again, show me where I said that time is the most important factor. And by the way, I'm sure you'll take me saying this as an opportunity to slip away from answering the previous question but I'm gonna say it anyway, time probably is the most important factor because nothing else matters without time. You will literally learn ZERO without time.
Let me repeat.
The truck driver drives for 8-15 hours per day. The race car driver drivers for 5-8 hours per day.
The truck driver is driving more. The race car driver is better.
That the truck driver is spending more time however that does not matter. The race car driving is using the time better.
The time will pass anyway.
What you do during that time is what matters, not the time itself.
And once again, when I have said time is not the most important aspect you have you have repeatedly said no.
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
I was going to write a few paragraphs explaining why older MMOs only seemed more difficult due to obtuse mechanics & people's own inexperience with the genre at the time, then I realized it would be a waste of time. Therefore I'll just sum up my view on the issue by saying no, they most certainly were not intentionally more difficult by design. Saying otherwise is in fact patently false.
You people are looking for an experience which can't be had again; that feeling of wonder when you were new to the genre. It's best you move on to other things, because no matter what a developer does, it will never satisfy you, especially since you're letting nostalgia shape faded old memories into something far grander than the actual reality you experienced.
I've said all I wanted to say on the matter. I bid you good day.
AN' DERE AIN'T NO SUCH FING AS ENUFF DAKKA, YA GROT! Enuff'z more than ya got an' less than too much an' there ain't no such fing as too much dakka. Say dere is, and me Squiggoff'z eatin' tonight!
We are born of the blood. Made men by the blood. Undone by the blood. Our eyes are yet to open. FEAR THE OLD BLOOD.
Comments
So would those people be tested for the same period of time? Or different periods of time?
Right so it was the same amount of time. And how exactly can you determine that time wasn't a determining factor if you weren't testing for time?
No, you're really confused. Time would make no difference if it NEVER made a difference. As in you have to have two people do the same thing, with the same level of intelligence, etc, and vary their time. You CANNOT have them do two different things, see that those two different things do have an effect and then assume that time does not. You didn't test time. You tested practice. We know that practice has an effect on skill. That doesn't mean that time doesn't have an effect on skill.
Yes, I know this. Nobody disputes this. The question is, holding all other things constant, does time spent doing something have a relationship with an increase in your competency in that thing? I think the answer is a big fat: OF COURSE!
It is not about just doing it. Someone going through the motions without any thought does not get better
Getting better takes effort and thought.
Holding a ball wearing the heart and bring in a gym throwing a ball every one in a while no matter how much time you spend doing that will not make you better than someone who spend 25 a day actively practicing their technique.
Improvements are about cognition.
You know you lose all credibility when you make long posts like this then turn around and support games like FFXIV?
I always say words are cheap. Your actions is what it matters. I have no problem with current MMOS so you won't see any double standards from my side.
If you are so unhappy with the way current MMOS are being made..stop supporting the companies. Otherwise why even bother making posts like these.
Nobody said "just doing it." I don't know why you keep assuming that these people are just doing through the motions without thinking about it. They're thinking about it as much as anybody else. Again, holding all things constant, time matters. HOLDING ALL THINGS CONSTANT. I don't understand this. Nobody is saying it's JUST time. What I'm saying is if the only thing we know about the two groups (casual players and hardcore players) is how much time they spend playing the game, then it's safe to assume that they will tend to be more skilled at it. Why on earth are you assuming that these people aren't thinking about it?
That's where you're wrong. It is about the time. That doesn't mean it's ONLY about the time, but it IS ABOUT THE TIME. You can't practice at all with out time, right? And the amount that you practice has a relationship with your skill, right? So time does matter.
Show me where I said that.
In truth what you said is that time doesn't matter. I've said it does matter.
Again, show me where I said that time is the most important factor. And by the way, I'm sure you'll take me saying this as an opportunity to slip away from answering the previous question but I'm gonna say it anyway, time probably is the most important factor because nothing else matters without time. You will literally learn ZERO without time.
Let me repeat.
The truck driver drives for 8-15 hours per day. The race car driver drivers for 5-8 hours per day.
The truck driver is driving more. The race car driver is better.
That the truck driver is spending more time however that does not matter. The race car driving is using the time better.
The time will pass anyway.
What you do during that time is what matters, not the time itself.
And once again, when I have said time is not the most important aspect you have you have repeatedly said no.
I was going to write a few paragraphs explaining why older MMOs only seemed more difficult due to obtuse mechanics & people's own inexperience with the genre at the time, then I realized it would be a waste of time. Therefore I'll just sum up my view on the issue by saying no, they most certainly were not intentionally more difficult by design. Saying otherwise is in fact patently false.
You people are looking for an experience which can't be had again; that feeling of wonder when you were new to the genre. It's best you move on to other things, because no matter what a developer does, it will never satisfy you, especially since you're letting nostalgia shape faded old memories into something far grander than the actual reality you experienced.
I've said all I wanted to say on the matter. I bid you good day.
AN' DERE AIN'T NO SUCH FING AS ENUFF DAKKA, YA GROT! Enuff'z more than ya got an' less than too much an' there ain't no such fing as too much dakka. Say dere is, and me Squiggoff'z eatin' tonight!
We are born of the blood. Made men by the blood. Undone by the blood. Our eyes are yet to open. FEAR THE OLD BLOOD.
#IStandWithVic