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Dragon Knight and medium armor

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  • SmarnyPeteSmarnyPete Member Posts: 69
    Originally posted by watchawatcha
    Originally posted by DMKano
    Originally posted by watchawatcha
    Originally posted by Gdemami

     


    Originally posted by Fusion

    ALL weapon categories get their damage from weapon damage, which is calculated by STAMINA and the weapons actual damage, this includes STAVES.

     

    Only "build" that would do with 'pure' magicka, is if you only fill your hotbar with CLASS abilities/spells.


     

    I was talking about resource management, staves use magica.

    The point is, if you invest into magica, autoattacks do not concern you.

    Dude.  You're wrong.  The game isn't designed for you to just spam your abilities.  You should also be using your light attack and heavy attack.  There are no auto-attacks in ESO.

    Also, Heavy Armor has another purpose that people above are forgetting or missing.  The more Heavy Armor you have the greater the threat.  So for tanks it's useful.

    Lol tanking?

    Every current dungeon in closed beta has been tanked in full cloth (or 5/2 in some cases) by a DK with sword/board (with only first ability unlocked for threat generation).

    Spiked armor + full cloth = armor cap

     

    Players will learn soon enough what closed beta testers do in all dungeon runs - AE everything except bosses, this works for all dungeons including end game veteran dungeons. This is why you see videos with even the tank AoEing with everyone else, until they get to bosses - switch to sword/board spam puncture.

    Yeah - hehe.

    I've played the dungeons.  Have you?  You need a tank or you wipe.  That simple.  You will have your main target healer which does do plenty AoE heals and generates a lot of threat.  Maybe from watching videos it looks to you like they're all just spamming, but the truth is you need someone that is able to pull threat off the healer.  Support might get into trouble as well because of the same issue.

     

    I ran Gotto with an all DPS group in the Nov beta. No tank or healer.

    Edit for more info: Level 12-17. Couldn't find a healer so we just said F it and got another person. Didn't know what we were doing and died probably 5x during the run, but we cleared it. If we knew what we were doing would have died a lot less. I have ran Gotto and the other two as a healer and with a tank. It was easier, but this was in the recent betas and a much better idea how the dungeons worked.

  • theprophet85theprophet85 Member UncommonPosts: 19
    Originally posted by Gdemami

    Since all game is about magic and mana, there is not much point in anything but light armor...

    This is true. I hit the armor cap as a DK in medium armor. There is no point to heavy armor in the game at the moment. There is a big thread about it on the PTS forums. DK/Templars reach max armor with medium and sometimes even light.

  • GdemamiGdemami Member EpicPosts: 12,342


    Originally posted by Poisondwarf

    All weapons in the last BETA including staves used Stamina rather than Magica to calculate damage. We do not know if this was a bug or intended but as previously quoted ALL weapon damage is calculated using stamina.

    2 different things.

    Staves use stamina for light/heavy attacks damage calculations. Staff skills use mana(magica) as resource.

  • GdemamiGdemami Member EpicPosts: 12,342


    Originally posted by Patchez

    The more I read about this game, the more it sounds as if everyone is playing a mage, no matter what class you roll :(

    Somewhat yeah. I am in the same boat, I dislike magic.

    Melee builds are possible but they are not efficient. Then it depends how much it spoils your fun.

  • RyowulfRyowulf Member UncommonPosts: 664

    I think its poor game design to use stamina for so many things, weapons, dodging, blocking, sprinting, interrupting.  At least with bow you should need to block & dodge less, but melee?  If they wanted to make stamina a viable choice they should have made the actions like dodging on a timer or its own bar.  The choice should be "do a dodge or block?" and not "do I dodge or block or use a skill or run or stop that spell from being cast?"

    Edit: Also with the soft caps on stamina/magika its all about regen anyway. How much damage is added to a weapon attack even with max stamina? It softcaps fairly low. You can only put like 24? points into it before it softcaps 

  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 18,719
    Originally posted by DMKano

     


    Originally posted by Fusion

    Originally posted by DMKano

    Originally posted by Poisondwarf

    Originally posted by Gdemami  

    Originally posted by Fusion ALL weapon categories get their damage from weapon damage, which is calculated by STAMINA and the weapons actual damage, this includes STAVES.   Only "build" that would do with 'pure' magicka, is if you only fill your hotbar with CLASS abilities/spells.
      I was talking about resource management, staves use magica. The point is, if you invest into magica, autoattacks do not concern you.
    All weapons in the last BETA including staves used Stamina rather than Magica to calculate damage. We do not know if this was a bug or intended but as previously quoted ALL weapon damage is calculated using stamina.
    Yes Stamina is used for light and heavy attacks. Weapon skills use magica, class abilities use magica - some of the most powerful abilities in game are all magica based. No magica - means can't use any of those.  
    You couldn't be any further from the truth. Only weapon abilities that use magicka as resource are staves (destruction & healing) and even then, their base ability-damage is staff damage + weapon damage which is calculated from stamina. Every melee + archercy ability uses stamina as resource AND damage calculation, magicka does absolutely nothing here. Class abilities use magicka, yes. Good luck rolling with only class abilites on your hotbars.
     

     

    Umm people actually use weapons other than staves?
    Lol
    Seriously, I was talking about staff builds, as in resto/destro build.

    Hmmm... a magicka stacker? I have a couple of builds just waiting for you magickaholics in Cyrodiil. Don't travel alone :)

    "Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”

    ― Umberto Eco

    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED

  • GdemamiGdemami Member EpicPosts: 12,342


    Originally posted by Ryowulf

    I think its poor game design to use stamina for so many things, weapons, dodging, blocking, sprinting, interrupting.  At least with bow you should need to block & dodge less, but melee?  If they wanted to make stamina a viable choice they should have made the actions like dodging on a timer or its own bar.  The choice should be "do a dodge or block?" and not "do I dodge or block or use a skill or run or stop that spell from being cast?" 

    Blame Skyrim. That was even worse there.

    Imo, there should be another layer for utility skills - timer for cc, charges for dodge, etc that would scale based on stamina so more stamina means more utility but it won't be used as resource.

    I guess the supposed advantage of melee/stamina is that attacks do not cost any resource but that did not work out - magica regen is high enough that you don't need to worry about your resource management.

  • rojoArcueidrojoArcueid Member EpicPosts: 10,722
    Originally posted by watchawatcha
    Originally posted by Scot
    I got to catch up with this sort of thing. I did not think the game had auto-attacks?

    It doesn't.  The guy probably was just clicking his abilities and ignoring the light and heavy attack option.  Probably ignoring block and interrupt as well.

    common sense, im sure he meant regular attacks since in traditional mmos auto attacks and regular attacks are the same thing. In reticle based games there are no auto attacks so he clearly was talking about regular attacks (left clicks)





  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 18,719
    Originally posted by DMKano

     


    Originally posted by Iselin

    Originally posted by DMKano  

    Originally posted by Fusion

    Originally posted by DMKano

    Originally posted by Poisondwarf

    Originally posted by Gdemami  

    Originally posted by Fusion ALL weapon categories get their damage from weapon damage, which is calculated by STAMINA and the weapons actual damage, this includes STAVES.   Only "build" that would do with 'pure' magicka, is if you only fill your hotbar with CLASS abilities/spells.
      I was talking about resource management, staves use magica. The point is, if you invest into magica, autoattacks do not concern you.
    All weapons in the last BETA including staves used Stamina rather than Magica to calculate damage. We do not know if this was a bug or intended but as previously quoted ALL weapon damage is calculated using stamina.
    Yes Stamina is used for light and heavy attacks. Weapon skills use magica, class abilities use magica - some of the most powerful abilities in game are all magica based. No magica - means can't use any of those.  
    You couldn't be any further from the truth. Only weapon abilities that use magicka as resource are staves (destruction & healing) and even then, their base ability-damage is staff damage + weapon damage which is calculated from stamina. Every melee + archercy ability uses stamina as resource AND damage calculation, magicka does absolutely nothing here. Class abilities use magicka, yes. Good luck rolling with only class abilites on your hotbars.
        Umm people actually use weapons other than staves? Lol Seriously, I was talking about staff builds, as in resto/destro build.
    Hmmm... a magicka stacker? I have a couple of builds just waiting for you magickaholics in Cyrodiil. Don't travel alone :)
     
    l
    Damn ha, was just talking to my guild last night, even the archer has a staff as a 2nd weapon. Pretty funny that its all staff users.

     

    I guess we'll just have to hide from you :)

    Once staves get nerfed, it should be fun times haha. Oh well reality of MMOs - don't get attached to builds of any sort everything gets changed.

    Yeah, exactly. Everything that's too good to be true doesn't last long in MMOs.

     

    Staves are all the rage because they are excellent for AOE...not to mention the flashy particle effects. They shine in dungeon trash clearing and zerg vs. zerg furballs.

     

    But AOE is not always king--specially in 1-on-1 PVP and there are many other AOE abilities that are even better than what the destro staff gives you.

     

    Overload, one of the 3 awesome Sorcerer Ultimates (why did they get 3 great ones, ZOS are sorcerer-lovers lol) turns your heavy weapon attack into a channeled multiple lightning bolts radiating from your fingers in a cone...it demolishes everything in instances... there just aren't many youTube videos showing this one off so it's currently flying under the radar....let's keep it that way :)

    "Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”

    ― Umberto Eco

    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED

  • WarjinWarjin Member UncommonPosts: 1,216
    Originally posted by theprophet85
    Originally posted by Gdemami

    Since all game is about magic and mana, there is not much point in anything but light armor...

    This is true. I hit the armor cap as a DK in medium armor. There is no point to heavy armor in the game at the moment. There is a big thread about it on the PTS forums. DK/Templars reach max armor with medium and sometimes even light.

    Heavy armor will boost your passive health regeneration, stack this with a Nord/DK with full draconic skills and you will regenerate almost 100% passively and over 100% with dragons blood popped.

    So heavy has it's use for tanking and pvp, other then that you are right, armor value can be capped in med and in light armor with spiked armor, but light and med will lack the health regeneration.

    Many people seem to over look the passive health regeneration but if there is one thing I learned from Guild Wars2 is that passive health regeneration is God-mode, just look at the GW2 Warrior using the healing signet with adrenal health.

    I will be playing as a full heavy armor class that will cap his health regeneration to almost 100%, not sure the class yet but I do know I will not be using a staff or light armor no matter how flavor of the month it is, I just can't get into a caster class when I am playing a fantasy game.

  • I don't think there is a lot of correlation between armor and class.  

     

    All classes use magicka so light armor can always apply.  All classes can be melee builds so medium and heavy apply.

     

    The main thing to look at for are synergies such as elemental boosts and desrto staff and redundancies such as NB teleport strike is partially redundant to 2H crit charge (different resources so only partial).  Or other cap related redundancies such as DK getting a rather nice armor buff that makes the great armor of heavy less of a big deal (heavy still gives other important things like helping block).

     

    Anyway people should very much not take "class" to mean in this game what it means in many others.

  • GdemamiGdemami Member EpicPosts: 12,342


    Originally posted by Warjin

    Heavy armor will boost your passive health regeneration, stack this with a Nord/DK with full draconic skills and you will regenerate almost 100% passively and over 100% with dragons blood popped.So heavy has it's use for tanking and pvp, other then that you are right, armor value can be capped in med and in light armor with spiked armor, but light and med will lack the health regeneration.Many people seem to over look the passive health regeneration but if there is one thing I learned from Guild Wars2 is that passive health regeneration is God-mode, just look at the GW2 Warrior using the healing signet with adrenal health.I will be playing as a full heavy armor class that will cap his health regeneration to almost 100%, not sure the class yet but I do know I will not be using a staff or light armor no matter how flavor of the month it is, I just can't get into a caster class when I am playing a fantasy game.

    Soft caps.

    You want to put your stats into Health which already gives you HP regen thus capping it is very easy and diminishing returns are very heavy.

  • spizzspizz Member UncommonPosts: 1,971
    Originally posted by aesperus
    Originally posted by Thodra
    Hey there everyone. I like the sound of the Dragon Knight, but I also like medium armor. Do you think there will be any viable builds that allows the Dragon Knight to use medium armor?

    Medium armor is actually one of the better armor sets currently. This is because it both has some of the best offensive passives when it comes to melee, but also because the game caps your defenses, and it's currently VERY easy to hit armor cap, even with minimal-no actives that boost it.

    Heavy armor is currently the least useful of the 3 armor types, as you hit armor cap stupid easy, which negates part of the passives. Furthermore the dmg passives it gives are currently subpar compares to medium.

    The guy saying that light armor is the only way to go is incorrect. It is also a good armor choice, but for a very different build type. A lot of people prefer light because they like having more stamina for dodging / CC break / blocking, but it's hardly the 'only' way to build your character.

    Tbh, Currently most people are mixing armor types. Going with a 5-2 split or something similar. If there's 1 universal truth to this game, it's that it wants you to hybridize. Overly specialized builds tend to get punished, whereas builds that capitalize on multiple resource pools tend to thrive. Keep that inmind while building your character. I've seen strong stamina based builds, and strong magicka based ones. However, both build types encorperated abilities that used stamina, magicka, and ultimate to be effective. And all had some points invested into resource management (either regen, leeching abilities, or extra resource gain on hit).

     

    Did they fix medium armor already since a little more than a week ago long term beta tester wrote that especially the criticals are stll not working.

  • TalemireTalemire Member UncommonPosts: 839

    All this talk about stam/mana builds, well, answer me this: What happens when you put all your points into health instead, aside from just having a larger health pool? Are there no other benefits from putting points in health?

    And as far as the armor soft cap topic goes, I am sure Zenimax is going to do something about it so that it's not met by wearing light/medium armor lol. I really wouldn't let that alone dictate what armor one should wear as its current state is just screaming for change and alteration. Heavy will be more useful armor/mitigation wise soon enough.

    Isaiah 41:10
  • DamediusDamedius Member Posts: 346
    Originally posted by Talemire

    All this talk about stam/mana builds, well, answer me this: What happens when you put all your points into health instead, aside from just having a larger health pool? Are there no other benefits from putting points in health?

    You can take more damage before you die.

  • DraemosDraemos Member UncommonPosts: 1,521
    Originally posted by Gdemami

     


    Originally posted by aesperus

    The guy saying that light armor is the only way to go is incorrect. It is also a good armor choice, but for a very different build type. A lot of people prefer light because they like having more stamina for dodging / CC break / blocking, but it's hardly the 'only' way to build your character.

     

    Do not say someone is incorrect when you do not understand the matter.

    It does not matter how much stamina you have, you pull your CC break and 50% of your max stamina is gone, you try to dodge, 30% of your stamina is gone, etc.

    Stamina builds are not sustainable nor they provide any advantage, in fact they provide less options, less potential.

    Yes, people do mix armor types, once their magica/mana soft caps are hit...

    This is completely and utterly wrong.  All stamina using mechanics are static amounts that scale only by level.  Someone with more stamina can break more CC, run farther, dodge more, block more, and sneak farther.

     

    www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wlvHyYjrkM

    The amount of misinformation spread on this forum is staggering.

  • DraemosDraemos Member UncommonPosts: 1,521
    Originally posted by Gdemami

     


    Originally posted by Poisondwarf

    All weapons in the last BETA including staves used Stamina rather than Magica to calculate damage. We do not know if this was a bug or intended but as previously quoted ALL weapon damage is calculated using stamina.

     

    2 different things.

    Staves use stamina for light/heavy attacks damage calculations. Staff skills use mana(magica) as resource.

    Staves use stamina for damage scaling of light/heavy attacks, as do ALL weapons.  Staves use magika for damage scalling of staff SKILLS.

     

    Please stop posting about the game, your knowledge of the mechanics are heavily flawed.

  • GdemamiGdemami Member EpicPosts: 12,342


    Originally posted by Draemos

    This is completely and utterly wrong.  All stamina using mechanics are static amounts that scale only by level.  Someone with more stamina can break more CC, run farther, dodge more, block more, and sneak farther. www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wlvHyYjrkMThe amount of misinformation spread on this forum is staggering.

    I am not wrong, it must be some of the very recent changes.

  • GdemamiGdemami Member EpicPosts: 12,342


    Originally posted by Draemos

    Staves use stamina for damage scaling of light/heavy attacks, as do ALL weapons.  Staves use magika for damage scalling of staff SKILLS. Please stop posting about the game, your knowledge of the mechanics are heavily flawed.

    Do you realize you are saying exactly the same as I am, right...?

  • DraemosDraemos Member UncommonPosts: 1,521
    Originally posted by Gdemami

     


    Originally posted by Draemos

    This is completely and utterly wrong.  All stamina using mechanics are static amounts that scale only by level.  Someone with more stamina can break more CC, run farther, dodge more, block more, and sneak farther.

     

     

    www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wlvHyYjrkM

    The amount of misinformation spread on this forum is staggering.


     

    I am not wrong, it must be some of the very recent changes.

    That would make you wrong.

  • ManasongManasong Member Posts: 208

    This is how you do a pure melee. Full melee build templar, he has a gap closer, a knocback CC, a snare and a light push back. Pure melee builds are useless withouth gap closers and CC.

  • GdemamiGdemami Member EpicPosts: 12,342


    Originally posted by Manasong
    is how you do a pure melee. Full melee build templar, he has a gap closer, a knocback CC, a snare and a light push back. Pure melee builds are useless withouth gap closers and CC.

    Yeah, I have seen those videos before. He is not really a pure melee(in context of stamina/weapon builds). Most of his dmg/cc comes from class abilities - only 1 weapon skill for charge.

    He has made some other "melee" videos worth checking.The guy rocks.


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