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Some friendly advice...

Pratt2112Pratt2112 Mt marion, NYPosts: 1,535Member Uncommon

For those who truly love and enjoy this game, and would like to see it continue to grow...

You might want to tell certain, more veteran players among you to stop hanging around newbie areas acting like a-holes to new players. I was barely in the game 10 minutes, and some jerk was following me around, running in front of me, getting in my way, killing mobs I'm attempting to kill for one of the starter quests, etc. etc..

And before someone says "lol carebear" or "it's a PVP MMO" (because many believe it's the "hardcore, chest-pounding" thing to do when you play a PvP MMO... I know). I've played PvP MMOs. I've PvP'd lots in PvP MMOs. Small skirmishes, up to clan wars, up to siege-level encounters. I don't shy away from it.

Problem is, what this person was doing was not PvP.

I had the newbie shield up, so they couldn't actually do anything to me. They knew this, as well as I. They were harassing me, plain and simple. Some insecure twerp, safe in their anonymity, trying to be "cool on the internet" by screwing with brand-new players in the game in the only way they can, knowing they're safe because there's nothing I can do about it.

At least in L2, if someone is going to screw with you, they flat out just killed you and got it over with, or try to get you to flag so they could act against you without penalty. They didn't follow you around like idiots for 10 minutes, harassing you. In Shadowbane, someone could only screw with you if you left the starting area and went to the mainland, at which point  you were (ideally) prepared for it, and they would just drop you if they could. Not even in Darkfall did people bother screwing with me unless they could actually attack me and get something out of it.

This is the first PvP MMO I've played where idiots who know they can't do anything to me physically, instead chose to harass me in purely passive-aggressive ways. That's just sad. Very sad.

And really, while I realize these idiots exist in every MMO, PvP or otherwise... Considering the restricted nature of the newbie experience in MO, and that there's absolutely nothing tangible they can get for their effort... it makes me wonder why they would be doing that?

Is it indicative of a bigger problem with the game?

Is there nothing more worthwhile to do in Nave?

Perhaps the game doesn't give them enough to do to keep them occupied otherwise? 

Should I take it as a sign of a boring, or troubled MMO where people find it more fun to harass new players than to be off doing something more productive for their own character? I mean, the game supposedly has myriad things to do... so why are people opting to hang out in lowbie areas, harassing newbies?

Whether it's a sign of people just being jerks, or of a boring game... it's not a very good first impression and it's already got me wondering if I want to even bother logging in again and wasting my time dealing with these people.

And, when you're talking about a game that already has a very limited player-base, and a dubious reputation... the last thing you want to be supporting are people harassing what new players the game does get.

You don't build a gaming population by pissing off new players through lame passive-aggressive behavior. To those who do this crap, you're only hurting your own game in the process. To those who don't do it.. you might want to persuade your mates to cut the crap. 

The veteran players in L2 learned this lesson early on and started actively going after lowbie griefers, because they saw the negative effect it was having on the game's population. Not enough new blood due to people being run out of the game by griefers/gankers = stagnant player population. And if there's one thing a PvP-driven MMO needs... it's people to PvP against. When you run off new players through griefing/harassment, you are quite literally starving the game of its very lifeblood.

So, perhaps the people of MO can/will do the same as the Vets of L2 did early on and try to deal with it. Otherwise, an already very limited player population will continue to be even more limited.

Just some friendly advice.

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Comments

  • Mtibbs1989Mtibbs1989 Fredericksburg, VAPosts: 2,920Member Uncommon
    lol, I keep telling people. games like Mortal Online and Darkfall Online are simply occupied by a cesspool of people who seek only to grief. It's not for the casual gamer in the slightest. I use to love the idea behind full loot and hardcore PvP. However, the community that's generated by these games are too foul for me to want to persevere . It's a shame too because there are also several more games coming out to the market that have peaked my interest but follow the same path.

    image

    Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
  • Pratt2112Pratt2112 Mt marion, NYPosts: 1,535Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Mtibbs1989
    lol, I keep telling people. games like Mortal Online and Darkfall Online are simply occupied by a cesspool of people who seek only to grief. It's not for the casual gamer in the slightest. I use to love the idea behind full loot and hardcore PvP. However, the community that's generated by these games are too foul for me to want to persevere . It's a shame too because there are also several more games coming out to the market that have peaked my interest but follow the same path.

    It's not even a casual gamer thing. 

    Like I said, I'm all for PvP. If someone was to run up to me and just flat out kill me.. I'd be like "lol.. okay... Welcome to Nave!". That actually wouldn't bother me. It goes with the territory.

    What bothers me in this case, is it's people who actually can't do anything to you... nor can you do anything to them. So they just hang around harassing new players with their stupidity. I have all the patience in the world for someone ganking me. I have no patience for someone just being a dick-head because they can.

    One is PvP. The other isn't.

    One should be encouraged. The other shouldn't. 

    That's really the crux of what I'm getting at.

    I would disagree with your assessment about DF and, from what I've seen, MO. I knew plenty of people in DF who were not the types you describe. Most people are off playing the game. They're leveling up, they're sieging, they're engaged in player politics, mass PvP, whatever. Videos I've seen of MO have demonstrated the same. Those people aren't the problem.

    I've known people in these games who are business owners, or otherwise professionals. Very intelligent, articulate and quite normal people. They're not the problem, though.

    It's the people I describe in my OP that are the problem. They are hurting the game by running off new people ('cause who has time to deal with that kind of BS?) before they've even gotten a real taste of the game. They are hurting the population and are not doing any favors.. for the game, is developers, nor the other players.

    Like I said, as well... Veterans early on in L2 recognized this problem. They saw the effect it was having on the game, and dealt with it accordingly. And it worked quite well. The population picked up again.  I'm just suggesting the people of MO do the same, because to ignore it, or shrug if off as "well it's a PvP MMO" is only hurting the game over time, even if they don't immediately see it.

  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Boca Raton, FLPosts: 4,491Member Uncommon

    There are a number of reasons why the game has struggled so much over the last 4 years.  You certainly touch on one of them, although not ALL vet players are like this.  Some are quite helpful!  Unfortunately too many are like the ones you describe.

     

     

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Starvault's reponse to criticism related to having a handful of players as the official "test" team for a supposed MMO: "We've just have another 10ish folk kind enough to voulenteer added tot the test team" (SIC) This explains much about the state of the game :-)

  • BraindomeBraindome Posts: 765Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Mtibbs1989
    lol, I keep telling people. games like Mortal Online and Darkfall Online are simply occupied by a cesspool of people who seek only to grief. It's not for the casual gamer in the slightest. I use to love the idea behind full loot and hardcore PvP. However, the community that's generated by these games are too foul for me to want to persevere . It's a shame too because there are also several more games coming out to the market that have peaked my interest but follow the same path.

     

    I highly suggest playing 7 Days to Die if you haven't.

    When servers are setup correctly you only drop belt items which makes it very manageable and still have that excitement of danger and consequence as the inventory management almost always forces you to use your belt ala old school Resident Evil style system as you have limited inventory space yet tons of useful items, you get to the point where you think "if I get killed what can I afford to lose" and it then leads to the necessity to farm and craft for replacement items but you usually have enough left in the inventory to craft your way back up.

    I also loved and still love pk'in and risk in MMO's and MO's, but they have to be done right and honestly man give the game a shot it is damn fun been enjoying it for weeks now.

  • Mtibbs1989Mtibbs1989 Fredericksburg, VAPosts: 2,920Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Braindome
    Originally posted by Mtibbs1989
    lol, I keep telling people. games like Mortal Online and Darkfall Online are simply occupied by a cesspool of people who seek only to grief. It's not for the casual gamer in the slightest. I use to love the idea behind full loot and hardcore PvP. However, the community that's generated by these games are too foul for me to want to persevere . It's a shame too because there are also several more games coming out to the market that have peaked my interest but follow the same path.

     

    I highly suggest playing 7 Days to Die if you haven't.

    When servers are setup correctly you only drop belt items which makes it very manageable and still have that excitement of danger and consequence as the inventory management almost always forces you to use your bely ala old school Resident Evil style system as you have limited inventory space yet tons of useful items, you get to the point where you think "if I get killed what can I afford to lose" and it then leads to the necessity to farm and craft for replacement items but you usually have enough left in the inventory to craft your way back up.

    I also loved and still love pk'in and risk in MMO's and MO's, but they have to be done right and honestly man give the game a shot it is damn fun been enjoying it for weeks now.

    Unfortunately 7 Days to Die doesn't interest me. However, I'm totally down for PvP in games like Lineage1-2, Aion, Tera, Warhammer, DAoC, etc. Because I know people are limited to the amount of grief that they can cause to a newcomer. I'm even fond of deleveling/loss of exp. However, taking away hard earned items that could have potentially taken hours, weeks, or even months to obtain in a matter of seconds just isn't my kind of thing.

    image

    Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
  • Pratt2112Pratt2112 Mt marion, NYPosts: 1,535Member Uncommon

    So, decided to give MO another try.

    Log back in. Finish up the newbie tutorials, which are surprisingly short, and am released into Tindrem. 

    Looking around, learning where the vendors are, etc. 

    Next thing I know, I see a notice that someone was attempting to steal from me. Taken off-guard, and not even knowing this could happen to a character barely an hour old in the game, I didn't react fast enough and the thief got away.

    Now I don't know how many times I'd been pickpocketed, all I know is that when I checked, just about all my newbie items.. everything given to me... was stolen.

    So here I am. Brand-new player, barely an hour old, barely know what the hell I'm doing yet, how things work, where anything is...  and I'm pretty much dead in the water. I can't do anything. I chose to go as a mage, and just about all my reagents were stolen. So I'm a sitting duck and can't do anything. Can't kill anything. Can't afford to buy replacements. Can't do crap. 

    Brilliant job MO devs. Absolutely brilliant. Even the developers of Shadowbane, arguably the harshest open world PvP MMO ever made, had the good sense to realize brand-new players need time to become familiar with the game and its various systems before being released to the full experience. 

    Allowing brand-new players to fall victim to game mechanics they aren't even familiar with, and don't know to be wary of yet, is just plain horrible design.

    It's clear now why this game has done, and continues to have such poor retention. 

    Sad, because it looks like it has some cool concepts. 

  • asmkm22asmkm22 Anchorage, AKPosts: 1,788Member
    They probably just resent the fact that they've wasted so many months and years of their life to a game that's going nowhere.

    You make me like charity

  • WightyWighty Westbury, NYPosts: 662Member Uncommon

    The problem is these are really in depth games, a deep skill system, crafting and combat can be fun... However the community makes these games shit... In the case of MO the worst area you can start in IS the designated newbie area...

     

    You are more or less forced to join a clan and travel around in packs... trying to do anything on your own is asking to be ganked, robbed, pillaged, griefed or whatever.

    There are those that will argue "These games are not meant to be played solo", but that is only because of the shitty asshat community.

     

    For the most part when you break these games down they have such a great world and they are more or less games you will not be max level in a week like most of todays trash... You really have to think about how you want to develop your character and yet all those great elements are wasted and lost because of fear based game play...

     

    I am not against grouping or being social, however I HATE having to be dependent on others for my own advancement... I should group because I want to not because I have to.

    What are your other Hobbies?

    Gaming is Dirt Cheap compared to this...

  • Pratt2112Pratt2112 Mt marion, NYPosts: 1,535Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Wighty

    The problem is these are really in depth games, a deep skill system, crafting and combat can be fun... However the community makes these games shit... In the case of MO the worst area you can start in IS the designated newbie area...

     

    You are more or less forced to join a clan and travel around in packs... trying to do anything on your own is asking to be ganked, robbed, pillaged, griefed or whatever.

    There are those that will argue "These games are not meant to be played solo", but that is only because of the shitty asshat community.

     

    For the most part when you break these games down they have such a great world and they are more or less games you will not be max level in a week like most of todays trash... You really have to think about how you want to develop your character and yet all those great elements are wasted and lost because of fear based game play...

     

    I am not against grouping or being social, however I HATE having to be dependent on others for my own advancement... I should group because I want to not because I have to.

    All good points.

    I don't mind being solo for the first bits of my experience. I was in Lineage 2, Shadowbane and Darkfall. But those MMOs provided basic protections for new players, so they could learn the ropes and familiarize themselves with the game in relative peace.

    Darkfall gives you a shield and an area where you can learn the game in relative safety 'til you feel you're ready to take your first steps out into the "real world", during which you can talk to people, join a guild, get some skills under your belt, etc. Shadowbane gave you a starting island to learn the game, during which time you could get to know people, perhaps join a guild, etc. Lineage 2 was the harshest of the three in the beginning, in that you could be attacked as soon as you left the starting city... but that was the most they could do, and even then it was very risky for the attacker. There were guards not far away who would immediately jump in to deal with your aggressor. If you're in your starting town, you're safe from attack.

    There are always going to be jerks in these types of MMOs. That much is certain. However, that's why other MMO devs provide some basic guarantees of safety for starting players. It's why they make sure players are given starting weapons and gear that can't be stolen or lost; because allowing a brand-new player's ability to fight or defend them self to be taken away in their very first hour of play is just freaking stupid. It's a horrible oversight on AV's part.  Even in Eve Online, if you lost your ship, you're given another newbie one, because you can't do much of anything if you're stuck sitting in station.

    It shouldn't be necessary for me to join a guild and start running around with a gang of people from the first moments I walk into Tindrem, in my first hour of play. I agree joining a guild is a necessary thing in these games, but to expect a brand-new player to jump in-game and immediately find a guild to join - before they even know anything else about the game - is rather unrealistic. 

    What should happen, is SV should go back and re-think their new player experience, because I'm sure they're losing a number of players over this.

    I enjoy PvP. I am fine with getting attacked, ganked.. even robbed. But not in my first hours of just starting out when I don't even know my up from down yet. That's just poor design, plain and simple.

    It bums me out, because it looked like MO was a game I would really enjoy sinking my teeth into and learning. But when I'm unable to even kill anything because someone is able to pickpocket me and take the only reagents I have... Yeah... No bueno.

  • BitshiftBitshift AachenPosts: 31Member

    Mortal Online is best played offline.

    In the end, playing the game means looking through the forums or doing something else while your character is chopping wood or mining ore for hours to re-equip when you get PKed or griefed.

    At first, the crafting system and skill system looks promising, but in the end it is just a pile of ****. Why? Because you need to max out nearly all skills to be effective. 

    You even have to max a (primary) skill to see what damage you have done to someone, what an idiotic system is that? You want to know how much damage your weapon does? You have to find a poor soul that you can hit with your weapon so he can tell you....

    You can only be a crafter OR a fighter... A fighter that can craft, IMPOSSIBRO. That means that you are the biggest looser out there when it comes to a confrontation. As a crafter, you will be griefed constantly.

    The AI is a joke, the network code too. Seems to be a crude mixture of Client based / Server based communications that makes it impossible to predict combat, if you don't know the tricks. Pigs flying high in the sky? Check. Popping chars out of fu**ing nowhere? Check. Only be competitionable with the high end gear not available for "normal" players? check.

    Most of the systems in game aren't working correctly or are buggy or placeholders... for years. The simplest things are not working, e.g. terrain collision detection, especially with pets. Apropros pets: They have one ultimate purpose: to be useless except of blocking the doorways to the storage. Get yourself a big one, more fun in Tindrem.

    If you try to think about some deeper systems in the game INGAME, e.g. when buying a book, you will get robbed. You will get robbed at the bank. And when you are not in the bank, too. At least every second char seems to have some thieving skills, just for the fun of it.

    I have quit play MO after having a little bit of fun thunderlashing thieves in flagranti, but everything else is not a game, it is a real good example of "doing it wrong". 

    MO is a good example of how "realism" and "hardcore gameplay" can fail if it is done wrong.

    Basically, it is just an FFA Arena with a bad crafting and skill concept. But to be honest: A round of "Chivalry - Medival Warfare" makes a lot more fun than that poorly implemented MO Combat. It is simply the better FFA. 

  • deathshrouddeathshroud londonPosts: 1,366Member

    not everyone who plays mo cares about the longevity of the game

     

    in mo you can make a fully ready combat char in about 3 days, a veteran can do it in less than 2. you can earn 8g in 10 minutes in tindrem killing bandits enough to buy a  weapon every 10 minutes.

     

    Grind is something mo doesnt have

     

    the days of chopping wood or mining ore as the only means of making gold in mo are long gone.

    there are 2 types of mmo, imitators and innovaters.

  • BitshiftBitshift AachenPosts: 31Member

    Most people (like me) never get to that point. Maybe veterans will be able to play the game in that way, but new players are no veterans, and the time until you get one is way to frustating. That has nothing to do with hardcore or carebearism, that has something to do with bugs, bad quality, missing human ressources, an incompetent dev team and a therefore resulting miserable beginners experience, no excuses.

    And even IF you are a veteran, you have to struggle with the dozens of errors, glitches and unsufficient systems. Most "veterans" seems to play anyway. I guess it is because of the lack of alternatives, because MO is the only one in its manner, but that does not neccessarily mean that it is a good game. Well i guess you know what I mean.

    If you have reached that state of inner knowledge (one may call it "endgame"), you are again at the point of an FFA Arena. And I tend do say it again: There are better FFA games out there. Crafting at this point is obsolete, because most likely you will pick up just the cookie butter build weapon stored in your guild keep. The result is boredom, and, grieving.

    It is not that EVERYTHING is bad about MO, but there are way more negative points than positive ones. It's time to let that piece of horrid development die in peace and support the handfull of alternatives that try to do similar things, in the hope to make it better.

     

  • LahuzerLahuzer BorPosts: 666Member Uncommon

    Dunno how it is these days. But before new players had a yellow flag and couldn't be griefed the first 8 hours or so. But it could be gone with f2p, so peeps couldn't abuse it.

    As a new player I would leave Tindrem ASAP. That's rly the best advice I can give a new player. I avoid Tindrem as long as I can. Only get there for some books etc. But the worms of Nave hangs there. There are alot of nice peeps that will help new players. But they are harder to find in Tindrem.

  • AnubisanAnubisan Boulder, COPosts: 1,801Member

    MO is not going to change. SV is not going to go back and change their game design to be more friendly to new players. I have honestly hoped that they would because I agree with you that it might help them keep more new players. The thing is... this is their vision of how the game should be. To compromise on that would be to cheapen the entire experience... something that Darkfall 2 did to their detriment (in my opinion). 

    That being said, it is not difficult to start out in the game if you exercise a bit of caution. You have to understand that, at least in Tindrem, there are tons of thieves running around looking to steal whatever you have on you. Fortunately you start with newbie weapons that cannot be stolen and will re-appear on you after you die and resurrect. This means you will always be able to fight monsters and earn gold. 

    Granted, this doesn't really help mages... but to be honest, you probably shouldn't be starting as a mage in this game anyway. They are difficult to play and require a steady stream of resources to keep them going. You won't have these resources when you first start the game, so playing a mage is not a great idea for new players. I would highly recommend playing a fighter to start instead.

    If you're interested in giving the game more of a shot and would like someone to help you out, send me a PM.

  • Pratt2112Pratt2112 Mt marion, NYPosts: 1,535Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by deathshroud

    not everyone who plays mo cares about the longevity of the game

     

    in mo you can make a fully ready combat char in about 3 days, a veteran can do it in less than 2. you can earn 8g in 10 minutes in tindrem killing bandits enough to buy a  weapon every 10 minutes.

     

    Grind is something mo doesnt have

     

    the days of chopping wood or mining ore as the only means of making gold in mo are long gone.

    Well, every player may not care about the longevity of the game, but certainly the developers do, and they're the ones this issue ultimately affects. New players being run off by current players who have no long-term interest in the game themselves is just bad on top of bad.

    That said, what a vet player can do, in whatever amount of time, is irrelevant. This is an issue affecting new players due to vet players being allowed to freely harass and/or pickpocket people who have barely even begun to learn the game.

    It's a problem, and it should be corrected. Again, there's no shame in it.  When you're talking about a game that can (and should) afford someone hundreds of hours of entertainment, dedicating the first hours of the game to letting new players learn the ropes without hassle is not a big deal. I'm sure the dedicated griefers would disagree, since it would be directly affecting their idea of fun... but then they're likely the ones you refer to, who don't care about the game's longevity and shouldn't be the ones SV is catering to in the first place.

     

     

     

  • Pratt2112Pratt2112 Mt marion, NYPosts: 1,535Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Lahuzer

    Dunno how it is these days. But before new players had a yellow flag and couldn't be griefed the first 8 hours or so. But it could be gone with f2p, so peeps couldn't abuse it.

    As a new player I would leave Tindrem ASAP. That's rly the best advice I can give a new player. I avoid Tindrem as long as I can. Only get there for some books etc. But the worms of Nave hangs there. There are alot of nice peeps that will help new players. But they are harder to find in Tindrem.

    I actually had created a previous character (some time ago) that started in a different location. I'd heard Tindrem is a bad place to be for new players, and so I was going to start elsewhere. But it seems that's the only option you're given now.

     

    Edit: I just recovered the older account I'd set up. I'm going to see if that character is still in the other area it started in. If so, and it's more peaceful there.. I might give it more of a shot, and head out on my own, more on my own terms... and just stay the hell away from Tindrem for now.

    I'd like to enjoy a game like this... I'd just like to actually have a shot at getting a grasp on what the hell I'm doing before falling prey to other players.

  • oldmostaffoldmostaff Marshall, MIPosts: 18Member

    Its rumored that the CEO is an old griefer on UO, so its highly unlikely to see anti-grief mechanics be put into game anytime soon. 

     

    A lot of suggestions have been posted on the forums to help out with this problem, as its one that upsets many people and gets a lot of people thinking about it. However SV's stance is 'lol you guys as a community have to deal with it, dont like it do something about it' instead of a 'maybe there is a game design problem, we should look into' 

     

    A suggestion that I enjoyed was a 'pvp allowed' button for players on their player model, or anywhere really. Could be as easy as a text command. But basically after hitting this button they would be allowed to hit other players. So, I type /pvpallowed and it says "pvp is now not allowed for you, though be warned other players can still hit you, and you cant hit them" or something a little bit more direct. 

     

    Now, once I'm trying to kill some pigs, and a player jumps infront of me to try to turn me gray, I hit him, but the game doesn't register it, and doesn't do damage to him. Basically making my blade not 'see' him, or any other pvp. (note you'd also have to ensure that you couldn't heal other players, or block other players in this mode too). 

     

    Then, you get done with farming and such, and you want to go back to being able to hit someone as you go into town, case a theif tries to get you, either check the button in your rag doll, or type the chat command again and you're good to go, everything back to how it is currently. 

     

     

  • deathshrouddeathshroud londonPosts: 1,366Member

    ^^ sorry but a pvp allowed button? i cant think of anyone who would want that.

     

    blue blocking is something you see once, then you learn not to be fooled by it again, i mean it isnt a game breaking issue. Its just an annoyance to those who are new to the game that dont quite understand the game mechanics due to a poorly done tutorial.

     

    once you figure out the swing arcs and how melee combat works blue blocking should no longer be an issue since you always hit what you see on your screen because its client side. If blues are trying to blue block you at a guard zone area whilst you are fighting reds outside, then simply walk away.

    there are 2 types of mmo, imitators and innovaters.

  • ToferioToferio RandomPosts: 1,403Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Anubisan

    MO is not going to change. SV is not going to go back and change their game design to be more friendly to new players. I have honestly hoped that they would because I agree with you that it might help them keep more new players. The thing is... this is their vision of how the game should be. To compromise on that would be to cheapen the entire experience... something that Darkfall 2 did to their detriment (in my opinion). 

    Sorry, but this doesn't make much sense. How is making the game more friendly to new users would compromise their vision? That's some shitty design if their vision requires allowing veterans to grief new players.. The vision can user friendliness can surely co-exist with some effort. 

  • Pratt2112Pratt2112 Mt marion, NYPosts: 1,535Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Toferio
    Originally posted by Anubisan

    MO is not going to change. SV is not going to go back and change their game design to be more friendly to new players. I have honestly hoped that they would because I agree with you that it might help them keep more new players. The thing is... this is their vision of how the game should be. To compromise on that would be to cheapen the entire experience... something that Darkfall 2 did to their detriment (in my opinion). 

    Sorry, but this doesn't make much sense. How is making the game more friendly to new users would compromise their vision? That's some shitty design if their vision requires allowing veterans to grief new players.. The vision can user friendliness can surely co-exist with some effort. 

    Yeah, there's no indication that providing a more secure newbie experience would at al harm the game, any more than anything else they've done to annoy people over the past several years. 

    It would actually help keep people in the game longer, since they're able to actually learn the ropes and get the basics down without the aggravation of someone screwing with them almost from the word 'go'. That can make a huge difference in a player's decision to stick it out or say 'adios'.  

    As I'd stated in a previous post, Lineage 2 had a difficult time keeping new players because griefers were constantly haunting the lowbie areas (esp. around the Human starting town; it wasn't as bad where I started in the Dark Elf areas). NC did finally make some changes, such as adding more patrolling guards to the area, etc. But it was really the veteran players, I think, that made the difference when they started actively dealing with the griefers themselves, while helping new players get a proper start in the game.  Their efforts definitely made a difference back then, as more new players started showing up and sticking around. And in a PvP-centric game, "more people" can only be a good thing. Trying to chase them off is the worst thing you can do, for the game and, ultimately, for yourself as a player. You're literally running off the game's main source of long-term content. It amazes me how many don't seem to get this.

    Plenty of people are open to the idea of PvP and being in a world of constant danger. However, not many are willing to become others' cheap entertainment from the moment they step foot in the game world, with no actual recourse or way to fight back. Saying "join a guild" is easy... actually doing so takes time and can tend to be rather tedious. I've found that guilds in many of these types of games are very wary of brand-new players wanting to join because they don't know you and fear you're a spy from a rival guild/clan. 

    At least there's the free trial they give you, so the only thing being wasted in those situations is time.

    I am still giving it a shot. The game itself has enough interesting aspects to it to make me want to at least try to stick it out. We'll see how that works out, though.

     

  • BetaguyBetaguy Halifax, NSPosts: 2,590Member
    Does this game still show men's penis and women's hairy vagina? That was the show stopper for me.

    image

  • Pratt2112Pratt2112 Mt marion, NYPosts: 1,535Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Betaguy
    Does this game still show men's penis and women's hairy vagina? That was the show stopper for me.

    There's an option to disable full nudity now, I believe.

    Never quite understood the point of full nudity myself, really.

  • AnubisanAnubisan Boulder, COPosts: 1,801Member
    Originally posted by Toferio

    Sorry, but this doesn't make much sense. How is making the game more friendly to new users would compromise their vision? That's some shitty design if their vision requires allowing veterans to grief new players.. The vision can user friendliness can surely co-exist with some effort. 

    It compromises their vision because the game is supposed to be a totally hardcore and unforgiving experience. They want it to be the way it is and they are vehemently opposed to making things any more carebear. It took ages before SV even implemented the newbie-friendly safe zone that now exists in the starter area gardens in Tindrem. I really doubt they would be willing to expand that any further.

    Regardless, it seems to me that making a larger safe newbie area will just lead to people not understanding what the game really is once they step outside it. People will not be prepared at all for the harsh reality of Nave if they aren't introduced to it right away. And when they do eventually leave the expanded newbie area and are immediately killed, we'll be right back to where we are now - people complaining on the forums.

  • AnubisanAnubisan Boulder, COPosts: 1,801Member
    Originally posted by Betaguy
    Does this game still show men's penis and women's hairy vagina? That was the show stopper for me.

    The toggle to show nudity is disabled by default now. I have had it disabled ever since they added the toggle. You can turn it on if you're into that though...

  • deathshrouddeathshroud londonPosts: 1,366Member

    i think tindrem is already to large, there are players and even guilds who live out their days completely within it, i mean you can if you choose spend your whole time playing within its walls and districts. There is just about everything there, you can mine, chop wood, make gold, pvp and all the books vendors and crafting appliances are there.

     

    But i feel you are missing kind of the point of the game, but it is a sandbox i guess so each to their own.

    there are 2 types of mmo, imitators and innovaters.

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