Originally posted by reeereee Plausible, if FFXIV had faster combat I would still be playing it.
Agreed.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
It's more than just the duration of combat. It's the sheer repetitiveness of it as well. Use a builder 5 times, then use two finishers (one for each weapon). Do that 3 or 4 times just to kill the standard guy. It's just not fun.
Might I suggest that if you don't find that fun, you should stop playing that way? Half the time I don't use 5 builders unless the consumer actually requires 5 resources to fire. Your description of "standard combat" rarely fits my experience, even without using auxiliary weapons. No matter what I'm using, melee or ranged, it's much more mixed than you claim.
Faster wasn't the problem for me, I don't mind slower paced combat one bit. TSW's progression was give mobs in the next zone a crap ton more hit points, but don't give the player anything new to deal with it, just do the same thing you were doing in the previous zone 10 time more and the mob will die. There just wasn't enough active skills available to keep it interest for the amount of damage you had to deal to drop mobs later in the game. It just got super repetitive.
Sounds boring. Also untrue. I usually keep swapping between single-target and AOE builds between fights to suit my present needs. But the builds are rarely static for very long (unless they happen to be REALLY effective). I'm frequently trading off damage for speed or something, or removing an Afflict effect because the next mob type will (for example) Silence me if I hit it with Affliction.
If they shortened combat time, chance of aggro(either through thinner mob pop or reduced radius, or a better idea), and decreased mob pursuit time(I've had mobs literally chase me across the entire map), then I would enjoy the game more. I might even play more than once every update.
This would work for me as well.
I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy, accompanied by an educational system which would be oriented toward social goals.
I wasn't a fan of the combat at first. It felt clunky, animations were stiff and too many were reused for other abilities. After playing for over a week now though I'm past it. But I never had a problem with the length of combat. If anything, it was the emphasis on builders, having to spam the same attack five times made combat look dull.
I wasn't a fan of the combat at first. It felt clunky, animations were stiff and too many were reused for other abilities. After playing for over a week now though I'm past it. But I never had a problem with the length of combat. If anything, it was the emphasis on builders, having to spam the same attack five times made combat look dull.
I often mix up my builders, not just use the same one over and over. For example, on a character using pistol and blade I start with the pistol to be sure to set the Weakened state on my targets, then switch to a AOE blade builder.
This was the main issue for me. I really liked the game in general but the combat was just way to slow and got very boring using the endless 111111123 rotation.
I voted muffins, as I did not have a problem with the combat, so if I voted no, it may be counted as I hate it either way.
I only stopped playing when I ran out of content that I wanted to play, which is the story based themepark's biggest problem. I usually dislike a ton of quests, and hit spacebar all the time on cut scenes, but I actually really liked their quests/stories. My only wish was that they would of been more successful, and been able to develop content faster. Even when I was done with the content (and waiting on new content), I stayed subbed when it was p2p, because I appreciated the game, and to show support. I just downloaded it again on to my new computer 2 days ago to play it some more and check out what has changed.
if TSW fell slow how should TESO feel I played that one till lvl 16 and has the slowest and ugliest animation ever
compared to TSW now it feel fast as a coin-up game ahah
without including the fact that in TESO sometime you push the button and nothing happen and u have to push it twice to actually make the skill work
I actually had a thought along those lines after playing TESO and Wildstar, was thinking how people were always yelling about TSW, but it seemed much faster paced from my memory, then both of those mmos. I figured people would kill both for this, I myself am not a huge action fan, but found TSW's actual controls for movement/targeting and such to be good. Yeah some better rotation work couldn't hurt, but the pace/combat was fine for me.
if TSW fell slow how should TESO feel I played that one till lvl 16 and has the slowest and ugliest animation ever
compared to TSW now it feel fast as a coin-up game ahah
without including the fact that in TESO sometime you push the button and nothing happen and u have to push it twice to actually make the skill work
That might be what tipped me over into not buying TESO. That and no housing.
I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy, accompanied by an educational system which would be oriented toward social goals.
I tried this game this weekend and my opinion is that combat was fine... can't really understand why so many people bitch about it.
It didn't grasp me on the MMO/Social part though - maybe the least MMO i have ever played. No communication, global chat is always empty, community wasn't helpful or talkative at all, people wouldn't even respond on questions i was asking... it totally feels like you re playing a solo game.
And the PvP is totally for higher levels - you may say that there aren't levels in this game but there's definitely character progression - i don't have a problem with character progression per se, on the contrary, but trying to hide it makes things much worst. PvP for example would be much better if it was happening within level tiers (like lvl1-10, lvl11-20, etc). And dungeons/groups would be much better organized if you could say, this area is for this lvl, etc... This game was hit by level-phobians.
I may play it amongst some other solo/offline games i currently have in mind to play, but not as a MMO. It doesn't feel like one.
PS: Ah and it's much more of the original Guild Wars' successor, than GW2 will ever be.
By all means, let's try to normalize and standardize the combat across all MMOs. Every single game should be exactly alike when it comes to how the combat is implemented. It's ridiculous that any game company should try to branch out and try something different. Such companies should be ridiculed for taking unnecessary chances with their game systems.
The paragraph above was written on "Opposite Day".
Look, people play what they like. TSW has fans. Making changes - small or great - in order to go after the "non-fans" isn't going to do much except risk the current base. In my opinion, Funcom should continue to focus on the aspects of the game that sets it apart from it's peers rather then try to emulate what's already done in the industry. TSW shines because of what it does differently.
By all means, let's try to normalize and standardize the combat across all MMOs. Every single game should be exactly alike when it comes to how the combat is implemented. It's ridiculous that any game company should try to branch out and try something different. Such companies should be ridiculed for taking unnecessary chances with their game systems.
The paragraph above was written on "Opposite Day".
Look, people play what they like. TSW has fans. Making changes - small or great - in order to go after the "non-fans" isn't going to do much except risk the current base. In my opinion, Funcom should continue to focus on the aspects of the game that sets it apart from it's peers rather then try to emulate what's already done in the industry. TSW shines because of what it does differently.
Funcom has a combat system even they know is broken. The problem is they have such a small player base at the moment they are too worried that alienating any minority in the game will kill the whole thing. Take a look at their beta forums. They just went to change elemental force (Over powered auto crit ability found in 80%+ of dps builds) and had to back off. It's kind of sad that the game is on life support. It got quite a few things right that other games don't even bother to address at all.
i stopped playing Gw2 because combat was obscene in a week
i stopped playing teso in 4 day because combat was slow so slow and so boring
i stopped playing WS after only 2 beta weekend and i requested to cancel my preorder because the combat is just idiotic
i play TSW since 2 year
If you don't like it fine but broken? it works fine on my pc
but i admit i am getting a bit burned out i wanted to come back AOC but i am tired of fantasy so the only other decent combat not fantasy...... i went back to SWTOR and i have to say they added quite a lot of war zone
For me, the combat in TSW is the onyl thing I can't quite get warm with. And that is a damn shame, because everything else this game has to offer is so unbelievably amazing that it kind of ... hurts that the combat is so dull.
To answer the thread: no, the overall speed is not the issue here. The combat itself also isn't broken in any way. It works within the boundaries it wants to operate in. That is fine, that is good; some boss fights in dungeons really take the focus off your own character, in a way, because you need to pay attention to many things. Those are, actually, the moments TSW shines: when the combat is only secondary, because in my opinion, the combat is too simple, the several weapons to choose from ultimately don't matter, since they all play the exact same way. There are little to no differences and that kind of bugs me.
Only so I'm not misunderstood: the combat works fine within the boundaries of the game it exists in, but I personally don't like the way the combat feels and how simple and dull it is in comparison to what is one of my favourite MMORPGs of all time that is innovative and exciting in so many ways - except for combat.
personally i dont like target much anymore so WOW and SWTOR feel kinda weird i like the freedom in combat I have in TSW melee and i don't dislike the builder consumer mechanics i find it intriguing I could live without but i dont find it limiting just a choise like another.
I rember i used to like the combat in DDO it was not that bad either the 3 step attack with finisher
what i dont like about wild star is not so much the combat i love the doulbe jump is fun i just don't like the solution of the telegraph i find it... fake
you have a sword you hit wathever is around you i dont need a ugly stuff on the ground to tell me where and when!
you have a cone attack you attack in that cone i dont need a picture for it on the ground
it feel so fake so weird i have to watch the ground to see if i am in or out, no thanks plus the ground is a mess is so colorfull i really dont like it
AOC didn't need telegraph and it was awesome (before they ruined it)
as i said i would go back to AOC in an heartbeat! but i am really tired of fantasy at any level even the more realistic one like AOC
and wildstar graphic (to my taste) is unbarable ugly i found screenshot of my little pony that look like serious stuff compared to me helping veggie with legs while surrounded by rat and half cat half bunny character
sorry i cancelled the preorder after 2 beta weekend and reactivated swtor... there is a certain class in going around with a ligthsaber you can't compare the force to helping veggie... (or killing butterfly)
dear lord no. i am not 15y/o anymore i cannot force myself to log in WS anymore... there is comic and comic there is serious comic and funny comic but still serious
Cowboy Bebop for istance... people there had purple hair but fuck purple hair there were sexy in WS is just so....
in another forum i posted image of cowboy bebop vs WS next to eachother the color palette is pretty similar BUT the style!!!
I think the speed of TSW combat wouldn't be so bad if it wasn't so repetitive. If the combat is going to be basic, it has to be fast, like WoW or GW2. If it's going to take 30 to 45 seconds to kill normal creatures, then it had better be much more exciting than 5 builders, 2 finishers, repeat.
Another problem, though, is that the mob density in the game is high enough, and the respawn times are quick enough, that it looks like they didn't realize just how slow combat would end up being. It's fixable by either lowering the health for certain "standard" mobs and maybe giving them better variety for attacks, without having to do some kind of combat-overhaul. It's just not fun having shit you just killed spawn nearby because you're still fighting the next mob. One errant dodge and you just screwed yourself over.
now i remember yes it was slow at first kill stuff especially kingsmounth but because mobs dont have level and sometimes is like fighting a mob 3 lvl above you even if you dont realize it!
the speed is not a problem overall it speed up the better u get and understand mechanics but i agree at first it may be hard/boring for a beginner
the problem is you really dont wanna speed up because once you get the right built and the right gear is the speed is right.
I feel like differently from other MMO this one kind of expect you to group up since the begin and this why a lot of "solo" oriented people find it slow and hard.
I dont think they need to change anything i just think is not for everybody that is a pitty because is real good if you endure it a lil.
I think the speed of TSW combat wouldn't be so bad if it wasn't so repetitive. If the combat is going to be basic, it has to be fast, like WoW or GW2. If it's going to take 30 to 45 seconds to kill normal creatures, then it had better be much more exciting than 5 builders, 2 finishers, repeat.
Another problem, though, is that the mob density in the game is high enough, and the respawn times are quick enough, that it looks like they didn't realize just how slow combat would end up being. It's fixable by either lowering the health for certain "standard" mobs and maybe giving them better variety for attacks, without having to do some kind of combat-overhaul. It's just not fun having shit you just killed spawn nearby because you're still fighting the next mob. One errant dodge and you just screwed yourself over.
Oh, can the gross exaggerations! This isn't old-school EQ: if it took 30 to 45 seconds to kill most mobs, you'd be dead before they were. "5 builders, 2 finishers, repeat" is not anything inherent in the game. If you choose to play that way, fine, but quit claiming that TSW is forcing it on you. Mix up your builders: they have different effects and can set different states. Your consumer attacks also have different effects (some of which will backfire with some mobs), so mix those up as well. And then there are the attacks that neither build nor consume but are a nice addition to the combat. If you really do have that much trouble, you are probably doing quite a few things wrong.
Comments
Agreed.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
Might I suggest that if you don't find that fun, you should stop playing that way? Half the time I don't use 5 builders unless the consumer actually requires 5 resources to fire. Your description of "standard combat" rarely fits my experience, even without using auxiliary weapons. No matter what I'm using, melee or ranged, it's much more mixed than you claim.
Sounds boring. Also untrue. I usually keep swapping between single-target and AOE builds between fights to suit my present needs. But the builds are rarely static for very long (unless they happen to be REALLY effective). I'm frequently trading off damage for speed or something, or removing an Afflict effect because the next mob type will (for example) Silence me if I hit it with Affliction.
This would work for me as well.
I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy, accompanied by an educational system which would be oriented toward social goals.
~Albert Einstein
I wasn't a fan of the combat at first. It felt clunky, animations were stiff and too many were reused for other abilities. After playing for over a week now though I'm past it. But I never had a problem with the length of combat. If anything, it was the emphasis on builders, having to spam the same attack five times made combat look dull.
if TSW fell slow how should TESO feel I played that one till lvl 16 and has the slowest and ugliest animation ever
compared to TSW now it feel fast as a coin-up game ahah
without including the fact that in TESO sometime you push the button and nothing happen and u have to push it twice to actually make the skill work
I often mix up my builders, not just use the same one over and over. For example, on a character using pistol and blade I start with the pistol to be sure to set the Weakened state on my targets, then switch to a AOE blade builder.
I voted muffins, as I did not have a problem with the combat, so if I voted no, it may be counted as I hate it either way.
I only stopped playing when I ran out of content that I wanted to play, which is the story based themepark's biggest problem. I usually dislike a ton of quests, and hit spacebar all the time on cut scenes, but I actually really liked their quests/stories. My only wish was that they would of been more successful, and been able to develop content faster. Even when I was done with the content (and waiting on new content), I stayed subbed when it was p2p, because I appreciated the game, and to show support. I just downloaded it again on to my new computer 2 days ago to play it some more and check out what has changed.
I actually had a thought along those lines after playing TESO and Wildstar, was thinking how people were always yelling about TSW, but it seemed much faster paced from my memory, then both of those mmos. I figured people would kill both for this, I myself am not a huge action fan, but found TSW's actual controls for movement/targeting and such to be good. Yeah some better rotation work couldn't hurt, but the pace/combat was fine for me.
That might be what tipped me over into not buying TESO. That and no housing.
I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy, accompanied by an educational system which would be oriented toward social goals.
~Albert Einstein
I tried this game this weekend and my opinion is that combat was fine... can't really understand why so many people bitch about it.
It didn't grasp me on the MMO/Social part though - maybe the least MMO i have ever played. No communication, global chat is always empty, community wasn't helpful or talkative at all, people wouldn't even respond on questions i was asking... it totally feels like you re playing a solo game.
And the PvP is totally for higher levels - you may say that there aren't levels in this game but there's definitely character progression - i don't have a problem with character progression per se, on the contrary, but trying to hide it makes things much worst. PvP for example would be much better if it was happening within level tiers (like lvl1-10, lvl11-20, etc). And dungeons/groups would be much better organized if you could say, this area is for this lvl, etc... This game was hit by level-phobians.
I may play it amongst some other solo/offline games i currently have in mind to play, but not as a MMO. It doesn't feel like one.
PS: Ah and it's much more of the original Guild Wars' successor, than GW2 will ever be.
By all means, let's try to normalize and standardize the combat across all MMOs. Every single game should be exactly alike when it comes to how the combat is implemented. It's ridiculous that any game company should try to branch out and try something different. Such companies should be ridiculed for taking unnecessary chances with their game systems.
The paragraph above was written on "Opposite Day".
Look, people play what they like. TSW has fans. Making changes - small or great - in order to go after the "non-fans" isn't going to do much except risk the current base. In my opinion, Funcom should continue to focus on the aspects of the game that sets it apart from it's peers rather then try to emulate what's already done in the industry. TSW shines because of what it does differently.
Funcom has a combat system even they know is broken. The problem is they have such a small player base at the moment they are too worried that alienating any minority in the game will kill the whole thing. Take a look at their beta forums. They just went to change elemental force (Over powered auto crit ability found in 80%+ of dps builds) and had to back off. It's kind of sad that the game is on life support. It got quite a few things right that other games don't even bother to address at all.
everything about the game was great (for me) except the combat. that's why I stopped playing.
i stopped playing Gw2 because combat was obscene in a week
i stopped playing teso in 4 day because combat was slow so slow and so boring
i stopped playing WS after only 2 beta weekend and i requested to cancel my preorder because the combat is just idiotic
i play TSW since 2 year
If you don't like it fine but broken? it works fine on my pc
but i admit i am getting a bit burned out i wanted to come back AOC but i am tired of fantasy so the only other decent combat not fantasy...... i went back to SWTOR and i have to say they added quite a lot of war zone
Combat in TSW compared to other mmogames according to me:
GW2 combat is worse than tsw because its so limited, not enough skill variation.
SWTOR combat is almost the same maybe slightly worse due to limits in rotations.
WOW combat might be better, mostly because it has had such a long time to refine what it has.
WILDSTAR combat is better but very similar thanks to doublejump, dodge and telegraphs working better then in tsw..
ESO combat is worse cause its just TSW "action" target system evolved, eso combat is much more "floaty"
Herald of innovation, Vanquisher of the old! - Awake a few hours almost everyday!
For me, the combat in TSW is the onyl thing I can't quite get warm with. And that is a damn shame, because everything else this game has to offer is so unbelievably amazing that it kind of ... hurts that the combat is so dull.
To answer the thread: no, the overall speed is not the issue here. The combat itself also isn't broken in any way. It works within the boundaries it wants to operate in. That is fine, that is good; some boss fights in dungeons really take the focus off your own character, in a way, because you need to pay attention to many things. Those are, actually, the moments TSW shines: when the combat is only secondary, because in my opinion, the combat is too simple, the several weapons to choose from ultimately don't matter, since they all play the exact same way. There are little to no differences and that kind of bugs me.
Only so I'm not misunderstood: the combat works fine within the boundaries of the game it exists in, but I personally don't like the way the combat feels and how simple and dull it is in comparison to what is one of my favourite MMORPGs of all time that is innovative and exciting in so many ways - except for combat.
personally i dont like target much anymore so WOW and SWTOR feel kinda weird i like the freedom in combat I have in TSW melee and i don't dislike the builder consumer mechanics i find it intriguing I could live without but i dont find it limiting just a choise like another.
I rember i used to like the combat in DDO it was not that bad either the 3 step attack with finisher
what i dont like about wild star is not so much the combat i love the doulbe jump is fun i just don't like the solution of the telegraph i find it... fake
you have a sword you hit wathever is around you i dont need a ugly stuff on the ground to tell me where and when!
you have a cone attack you attack in that cone i dont need a picture for it on the ground
it feel so fake so weird i have to watch the ground to see if i am in or out, no thanks plus the ground is a mess is so colorfull i really dont like it
AOC didn't need telegraph and it was awesome (before they ruined it)
as i said i would go back to AOC in an heartbeat! but i am really tired of fantasy at any level even the more realistic one like AOC
and wildstar graphic (to my taste) is unbarable ugly i found screenshot of my little pony that look like serious stuff compared to me helping veggie with legs while surrounded by rat and half cat half bunny character
sorry i cancelled the preorder after 2 beta weekend and reactivated swtor... there is a certain class in going around with a ligthsaber you can't compare the force to helping veggie... (or killing butterfly)
dear lord no. i am not 15y/o anymore i cannot force myself to log in WS anymore... there is comic and comic there is serious comic and funny comic but still serious
Cowboy Bebop for istance... people there had purple hair but fuck purple hair there were sexy in WS is just so....
in another forum i posted image of cowboy bebop vs WS next to eachother the color palette is pretty similar BUT the style!!!
I can't believe 20+y/o people will play WS
I think the speed of TSW combat wouldn't be so bad if it wasn't so repetitive. If the combat is going to be basic, it has to be fast, like WoW or GW2. If it's going to take 30 to 45 seconds to kill normal creatures, then it had better be much more exciting than 5 builders, 2 finishers, repeat.
Another problem, though, is that the mob density in the game is high enough, and the respawn times are quick enough, that it looks like they didn't realize just how slow combat would end up being. It's fixable by either lowering the health for certain "standard" mobs and maybe giving them better variety for attacks, without having to do some kind of combat-overhaul. It's just not fun having shit you just killed spawn nearby because you're still fighting the next mob. One errant dodge and you just screwed yourself over.
You make me like charity
now i remember yes it was slow at first kill stuff especially kingsmounth but because mobs dont have level and sometimes is like fighting a mob 3 lvl above you even if you dont realize it!
the speed is not a problem overall it speed up the better u get and understand mechanics but i agree at first it may be hard/boring for a beginner
the problem is you really dont wanna speed up because once you get the right built and the right gear is the speed is right.
I feel like differently from other MMO this one kind of expect you to group up since the begin and this why a lot of "solo" oriented people find it slow and hard.
I dont think they need to change anything i just think is not for everybody that is a pitty because is real good if you endure it a lil.
Oh, can the gross exaggerations! This isn't old-school EQ: if it took 30 to 45 seconds to kill most mobs, you'd be dead before they were. "5 builders, 2 finishers, repeat" is not anything inherent in the game. If you choose to play that way, fine, but quit claiming that TSW is forcing it on you. Mix up your builders: they have different effects and can set different states. Your consumer attacks also have different effects (some of which will backfire with some mobs), so mix those up as well. And then there are the attacks that neither build nor consume but are a nice addition to the combat. If you really do have that much trouble, you are probably doing quite a few things wrong.