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[Column] Elder Scrolls Online: The Longevity of PvP in ESO

SBFordSBFord Associate Editor - News ManagerThe Land of AZPosts: 16,585MMORPG.COM Staff Uncommon

We’ve all played them, MMORPGs with leveling caps, WoW, SWTOR, DAoC, GW2, I can go on for a while listing them but you get my drift. How much play time was during the leveling experience? Very little, right? Most of your time playing was at “end game” or level cap. This week I want to take a step back from all the hype of the Elder Scrolls Online launch and talk about something that might be over looked, the longevity of PvP in ESO.

Read more of Ryan Getchell's Elder Scrolls Online: The Longevity of PvP in ESO.

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Associate Editor: MMORPG.com
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Comments

  • TbauTbau Chicago, ILPosts: 401Member

    I actually hope they leave out the themepark ranking system that turned PvP into a carrot on a stick system. The only reason people should need to PvP is that its fun, not because its another grind for skills or items.

    Also, DoaC did not invent large scale PvP, Ultima Online had server crash inducing levels of PvP as did Asherons Call. in fact the guild I was in, Swift, In Asherons Call got almost 350 of its members to create new characters on Bloodtide and noob rush everyone. it was an annual event for us on Sundays. All DaoC did was add grind to PvP, and no I am not saying PvP in the game wasn't fun, that was due to the combat system, not adding themepark to PvP.

  • DEAD.lineDEAD.line LisbonPosts: 424Member

    Now that you meantion RR, i actually don't know what a faction gets for winning the war. If it's just a bunch of pve buffs, than that sucks imo. I guess they could open up the Imperial city, but i think they could give out some special cosmetic rewards like armors and mounts. This was one of my issue in GW2. When a server won, i didn't really notice much difference. 

     

    To add something to the columm, i also feel the rvr just lacks much for groups to do besides storm the keeps. To question the longevity, i feel it's because it'll turn into keep zerg rushing like always which will lose it's appeal eventually. BTW, a agree with your points about AP's. The worse part is makignt hem the currency for siege weaponry.

     
     
  • indefindef Thousand Oaks, CAPosts: 344Member Uncommon

    Your article is way off base IMO.

     

    You take a standpoint from the perspective that Cyrodiil is a "PvP for the sake of PvP" type of place.  And you're completely wrong in that.

     

    Cyrodiil has 16 dungeons, questing areas all over the map, skyshards to find, and PvP to be had.  The PvP in this game is the most fun I've had since Darkfall Online was shut down...and my "honeymoon phase" has lasted for months at this point.  

     

    You also completely neglect to mention build design as being a major aspect of the game.  My clan has been sitting in mumble for like 2 months now designing builds for PvP.  The idea of "build designing" is an entirely different level of fun that is relevant in both PvP and PvE.

     

    Lastly, ZOS has already stated they have huge plans for Cyrodiil that aren't announced yet.  One of those articles is even on the same website that you work for.

     

    I would think that someone that gets paid to write game reviews as a profession would actually do some research on the game they are reviewing.

     
  • Rambo621Rambo621 McKinney, TXPosts: 28Member
    The fact that you think there even NEEDS to be progression shows how truly boring the pvp actually is (I agree with you). I don't play games with my sole purpose being to "earn" something, I play games because they're fun. Otherwise you may as well go get a job at McDonalds, because that's also boring but at least you're "earning" some money.

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  • bcbullybcbully Westland, MIPosts: 8,267Member Uncommon

    I've said for awhile now ESO could use 5 more skills per class and weapon line, sooner than later.

     

    I can see 3-4 months of character development  with hardcore Cyrodiil play as things stand, straight out the box.  

     

    I think that's a pretty good cushion to get things started. We'll see what the future holds

     

     

     
  • LeluuLeluu HannoverPosts: 9Member
    I might be wrong but I remember gaining a skill point when gaining a higher PvP rank.
     
    Do we have any knowledge about the amount of pvp ranks so far available in ESO?
  • raapnaapraapnaap LeidenPosts: 397Member Uncommon

    It doesn't need a progression/leveling system to be fun. If the combat is fun and the incentives are there to keep playing, then it will work.

     

    My personal issue with Cyrodiil is the lack of visual feedback and rewards for direct actions; Objective claims, player kills, etc. You get a mail send to you every so often with a single piece of gear, but that seems to be the only reward other than alliance points (which, again, lack visual feedback, I can't tell when I'm earning them).

  • danisheraserdanisheraser BallerupPosts: 16Member

    What is it with all these sick articles? It's as if every moderator have to squeeze every inch of fat out of this game, and then make sure it is turned in a negative way. I understand we have to show critique, but please, this is just to make another article fill out space.

  • bcbullybcbully Westland, MIPosts: 8,267Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Leluu
    I might be wrong but I remember gaining a skill point when gaining a higher PvP rank.
     
    Do we have any knowledge about the amount of pvp ranks so far available in ESO?
     

    You do.

  • danisheraserdanisheraser BallerupPosts: 16Member
    Ryan Getchell, do you actually get paid to make these kind of way off articles?
  • syeekcosyeekco Gresham, ORPosts: 18Member
    I love the game and am a guild leader.  But ic you point and agree with you.  I was a long time DAoC player and I can already see the difference.  I have a feeling that they will be coming up with some kind of progression system for PvP.  As long as they don't make it a PvP gear grind it will be nice.
  • SatsunoryuSatsunoryu Mishawaka, INPosts: 285Member
    End-game PVP concerns are exactly why I haven't pre-ordered.  I'm just not convinced there is much more there than what GW2's WvWvW system offered.  I was seriously let down by that title.
  • SoldorSoldor Toms River, NJPosts: 77Member
    This game could use a true progression system like in daoc. As u fight more in PVP your character should get stronger. Nothing crazy that will completely turn the fight into your favor, and definitely no gear grind, but a system that forever records the points u earn along with titles and access to abilities would be great for this game. Also make killing plays more of a reward point wise than taking keeps. This encourages roaming groups and cuts back on the Zerg plus spreads the battles over the map more. Surprised a real system like daoc wasn't in place from the start. Plz don't turn this into gw2
  • 43%burnt43%burnt StuttgartPosts: 142Member Uncommon

    Yes, some other use for the tons of alliance points you get would be nice. And a Daoc-like progression system would be the icing on top.

    But the biggest issue for me is still the akward melee combat, especially in pvp with the shitton of (single target) CC, combined with just 5+1 (x2 if you swap) skills.

     

  • IsariiIsarii Seekrit, COPosts: 26Member
    For the record, ESO does have a system where you gain PvP ranks, and are rewarded with titles, skill points, new skills, and passives. The game already has everything this writer is asking for.
  • ColdrenColdren Nowhereville, TNPosts: 456Member Uncommon

    I have to disagree, wholeheartedly. I think there is a better opportunity for longevity in AvA in ESO than you are realizing.

    If I remember that far back correctly, the RR system was a shadow of what it became by the time Shourded Isles came out. It took a long time to develop the system.

    As others have pointed out, you do get points for increasing your Realm Rank. So there IS a point to be earn through PvP, though I'm not sure how high the ranks go, and how many points it takes to get there. So the claim that there is no PvP progression, the basis of your argument, is false.. It's there, just without the "RR abilities Only" caveat. People can PvP for crafting points, or invest them into the PvP skill  lines (Assult, Emperor, etc.), and I think that utility makes it a slightly better system, and encourages even crafters to get into PvP more than they necessarily needed to in DAoC. Heck, they've even said that crafters will play a bigger role in AvA in the future, implying they have much bigger plans.

    Also, they do have plans to create a Darnkness Falls like dugeon, as was discussed in another interview. It just won't be there at relase, much like DF was not at relase when DAoC started. I imagine it will be the Impreial City.

    As a final note, there is already a LOT of PvE content in Cyrodil right now, in beta. They can add to it, like the Imperial City. But there are already quests, dark anchors, and dungeons to be found in the game right now.

    So, while I understand the premise and your concern, I just.. Think you're wrong. To each their own.

     

  • NoxMaelstromNoxMaelstrom Albany, NYPosts: 9Member

    Once you add a carrot, everyone wants it.  Once everyone wants it, there is a rush to get it. 

     

    This is really the problem of contemporary MMOs and end game/level caps - what ever the guise, it is all the same problem.  Why is it everyone talks about EQ/EQ2, WoW, DAoC, LoTRO (at least me) with reverance while we do know they had shortcomings; shortcomings we all want the new MMOs to overcome.

     

    Reason is simple - because they had so much content, so many things to do - even with end games, they still have enough content to keep players busy in one fashion or another.  Even when we find ourselves wanting not to play those games any more, we can't help but find something about them entertaining.

     

    Contemporary MMOs do not have the luxury of the content older generations of MMOs have, so I ask why is it they streamline the game up until end-game.   The pattern is obvious, contemporary MMOs emphasize end game, de-emphasize the leveling path and provide shallow and meaningless carrots for getting to end game.

     

    It is like we are all playing Dance Dance Revolution down at the arcade only to have something as simple as our names in the top ten list.   Most of us really don't like the game and many should not be seen in public gyrating like that, but since the "community" is doing it, we must as well.  Yet, its all so cheap that I feel so used and dirty at the end of it and question why? WHY?!?

     

    Look at Guild Wars 2.  I like GW2 for a lot of reasons, but lately the living story seems more about learning the right dance moves to earn those achievements.  I swear, if you play old John Travolta movies in the back ground and follow his dance moves in game, you will earn achievements.

     

    Honestly, one or two games like that is fine, but it just seems thats the template for contemporary MMOs.  I just hope ESO does not fall completely into this trap.

     
     
     
  • PivotelitePivotelite Hamilton, ONPosts: 2,167Member

    No carrot, no OWPvP, no dueling, there's not much longevity to be had.

     

    Say what you will about carrots ruining PvP or about OWPvP being for griefers and I honestly have no idea who can complain about dueling being in the game but those three forms of PvP are eternal, if theres a carrot people will always chase it, people will always OWPvP and people will always duel.

     

    ESO has none of those thus i'm not buying the game because Cyrodiil will get old fast.

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  • asfaraslarryasfaraslarry Phoenix, AZPosts: 18Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Tbau

    it was an annual event for us on Sundays. 

    :|

  • IselinIselin Vancouver, BCPosts: 5,609Member Uncommon

    I find it surprising that someone would write an article about DAOC Realm Ranks and the ability purchases based on attaining those RRs being a key contributor to retention, while at the same time ignoring the vastly superior and endless Skill Point system this game has... not to mention that we already know of their plans to increase the available skill lines--Dark Brotherhood and Thieve's Guild being just the first 2 of many.

     

    There is much more potential here for creating an endless progression system much more compelling than DAoC ever had with the added kicker that those SPs are not totally dependent on PVP as was the case in DAoC.

     

    You got to think it through before jumping to conclusions.

  • gonewildgonewild albion, NYPosts: 130Member
    agree
  • BrunioBrunio Richmonde, VAPosts: 37Member Common

    You can disagree all you want, but he is right for most players in this article. While many players such as myself just PvP for fun...many others including most of my close friends have to have something to work towards or achieve. Progression gives the normal player a sense of accomplishment and give them incentive to play.

     

    It can be things such as BR rank in PS2 or the jedi village in old SWG. Players need to feel like they are always moving forward and not just playing a call of duty match that ends and you never really went anywhere (Note that even call of duty has put in a sort of progression system at this point).  GW2 also implemented a WvW ranking system. It just adds that small thing to make players feel like they are gaining or earning something in return for their efforts.

     

    While the current ESO system will likely keep up a good sized player base...I also feel like many players will become bored with the system and quit playing after several months. This is in regards to the PvP though. I have no idea how good the PvE will be and thats an entirely different ball game.

  • RiannesRiannes bangkokPosts: 71Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by syeekco
    I love the game and am a guild leader.  But ic you point and agree with you.  I was a long time DAoC player and I can already see the difference.  I have a feeling that they will be coming up with some kind of progression system for PvP.  As long as they don't make it a PvP gear grind it will be nice.

     

    It is rly nice to see someone who loves the game gives a rational response to a negative review. If only eso has more players with a thought process like you it can only move forward. And it's a good thing.

  • meddyckmeddyck Athens, GAPosts: 1,140Member Uncommon
    Yet one more reason for me to hold off on buying TESO. RvR character progression is essential to me. I have much more hope that Camelot Unchained will be the DAOC successor many of us have been seeking for years.

    Camelot Unchained Backer
    DAOC [retired]: R11 Cleric R11 Druid R11 Minstrel R9 Eldritch R6 Sorc R6 Scout R5 Healer

  • LeiloniLeiloni None of your beeswax, ALPosts: 432Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by indef

    Your article is way off base IMO.

     

    You take a standpoint from the perspective that Cyrodiil is a "PvP for the sake of PvP" type of place.  And you're completely wrong in that.

     

    Cyrodiil has 16 dungeons, questing areas all over the map, skyshards to find, and PvP to be had.  The PvP in this game is the most fun I've had since Darkfall Online was shut down...and my "honeymoon phase" has lasted for months at this point.  

     

    You also completely neglect to mention build design as being a major aspect of the game.  My clan has been sitting in mumble for like 2 months now designing builds for PvP.  The idea of "build designing" is an entirely different level of fun that is relevant in both PvP and PvE.

     

    Lastly, ZOS has already stated they have huge plans for Cyrodiil that aren't announced yet.  One of those articles is even on the same website that you work for.

     

    I would think that someone that gets paid to write game reviews as a profession would actually do some research on the game they are reviewing.

     

    These are a lot of good points and I also wanted to add one more. Goals in PvP are certainly important, but not endless progression. People get tired of endless progression - it's why we all got so excited for GW2. What we all learned from that is progression is fun in limited spurts.

     

    So a few examples - games with PvP Seasons are fun because you can earn a high rank and feel like you accomplished something and are "finished". You can rest for a bit and actually enjoy what you worked so hard for. Right when you're starting to get bored it starts up again. Or games like TERA or Aion where you spend a lot of time earning powerful endgame gear sets. In those games, you can wear the same set for months if not a full year before you need to start grinding again, making all your effort truly enjoyable.

     

    If ESO had endless progression I don't know how much time I'd spend in the game. The point of progression is to earn something and be able to stop for a while and enjoy what you worked for, before you need or even want to start working again. It's the same reason people take vacations in real life - work isn't worth anything if you can't reap the rewards.

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