Im gonna get it no matter what.. There are bugs just like any other game.. As a gamer we should be used to it, and I wont let that be in my way to greatness!
NPC population and behaviour. Weather. Flora and fauna.
NPC Population: They seem well populated to me.
Behaviour: If you understand the MMO game structure, you should easily figure out why adding the radiant ai to ESO just isn't feasible.
Flora and fauna: Like the other guy said, ESO is better than Skyrim at that.
I will have to politely disagree on all counts. NPC behaviour is light years behind most MMOs released in the past 10 years. The world is sparse, poorly populated and NPCs rarely interact with one another. They are just waiting there at their spawn points to die. There is hardly even any scripted interaction between humanoids.
OP, I don't hate it, but there are "features" in it that I do hate enough to call them gamebreaking, for example not getting more bank slots when playing multiple characters. Also, the cash shop combined with forcing you to buy the Imperial Edition if you want access to all classes, are both huge turnoffs for me.
Today and yesterday I've received mails from several web shops offering discounts on this game, ie GMG ($9 off for standard ed, and $12 for imp ed). And that's before the game is even released. Makes me wonder...
OP, I don't hate it, but there are "features" in it that I do hate enough to call them gamebreaking, for example not getting more bank slots when playing multiple characters. Also, the cash shop combined with forcing you to buy the Imperial Edition if you want access to all classes, are both huge turnoffs for me.
Today and yesterday I've received mails from several web shops offering discounts on this game, ie GMG ($9 off for standard ed, and $12 for imp ed). And that's before the game is even released. Makes me wonder...
Not sure why that would make you wonder, Steam as an example frequently has sales on their pre-orders.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
When i'm browsing the different forums on Mmorpg.com i've come to a conclusion; there's a general consensus against subscriptions based models. People are treating the 15 dollars (which is -nothing-) as if it'll make you eat catfood instead of regular food. I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that is because people don't see the reasoning behind a sub model. You've gotten used to free to play models that seemingly work and think everyone should follow suit. Here's the reality though, they don't. All, and i mean all, the free to play games are shells of what they could've been. The content they are releasing are small and cheap to make as the big shot games only have a tiny amount of people left working on the game. The only exeption to this is Rift. Rift launched a large expansion in the hopes that the money they spent on it would bring enough players back to justify the cost they couldn't actually afford (yeah, not enough money from a free to play model to fund this without eating into the company's health)...Sadly, that didn't happen and they had to fire most of their staff.
Sure SWTOR is making money now, and they release content on a regular basis..But gone are the plans for huge expansions with big changes and new gameplay mechanics, instead they're releasing small updates..with the biggest since the release being 1 single planet..and now a dogfightning module which isn't that great after the first 15 minutes. You could've had new classes, new tradeskills, free roaming in space..a multitude of new planets, update to the graphics engine, new cinematics, a multitude of new followers (and new ways to interract with them) and a module for rearranging your ship's layout at will...But with only a tiny crew and nada money for anything but making the game profitable for EA, that's not going to happen.
Also i'm seeing a pattern emerge...The pattern is this..People are tired of the recipy ...They are tired of the things that defines an mmorpg. Quests...bleh... lore...bleeh.....go save this dude from those guys and report back to me..bleh.
You're expecting something new, an online game which will blow your mind without actually knowing how such a game would've even look like.
The Elder Scrolls Online does little differently from other Mmorpgs, and that is in my opinion a good thing. Try too many new things, and your game will fall on it's ass because you're trying too hard (Yes Tera, i'm looking at you, great combat, everything else was mediocre). The biggest change from recent online rpgs is the leveling pace..It's slower, it makes you stay in an area for a longer period of time than has been the norm for the last mmorpgs of this scale. It encourages you to read books and parchments and take your time to get to know mechanics.
Sadly people take this as a sign of weakness, because whenever people log into an mmorpg now, they wanna "race to the finish" .."get to max level..finish my dailies, do my daily battlegrounds..do that raid and i'm done for today" The actual process is forgotten as long as it's fast and painless
I'm not expecting the elder scrolls online to last as a subscription based game, i'm saying it wil be a worse game because it won't. It has the potentital for greatness, but people's inabillity to wait for game to "get to that state" is gone, along with their will to actual "play" their games, instead of racing through them.
And one more thing, about the stupid horse. You get one for free if you do the intro quest to cyrodiil at level 10, no need to spend 17k gold on one, people are whining because they lack knowledge.
And one more thing, about the stupid horse. You get one for free if you do the intro quest to cyrodiil at level 10
I never did read about this in any forum or in the chat ingame and I did a lot of quests i.e. quests how to use siege weapons and so on which you get from the general/officer the first time you enter cyrodiil.
It's like asking "am i the only one feeling this question is kinda silly? " which is kinda silly imo.
ofcourse there are alot of people with mixed feeling about almost every game. Just post your feeling or opinion about this game without asking a question with an obvious answer in the title might be better i think.
ESO does something right, maybe better than alot of games in some part, but it has some serious flaws, at least in the recent version we've just played. id say its possiblly the typical game most people would have mixed feeling with.
I read alot about this game the last couple of days, including what people thought about the beta.
Either people love it (the minority as it seems so far), and the rest just hates it.
Are there no one inbetween?
I didn't think the game was bad - I was actually having a blast. At start, I really hated the first 6 levels, but after that it became a little bit more interesting. I have to admit though, that the problem for me is, the content in ESO doesn't justify a sub - which is the only reason I wouldn't buy the game. I would buy in an instant, if it was b2p.
But why would I pay sub for other games, but not ESO when both are MMOs?
Because in a p2p world, there's better offer than ESO. Even in f2p there's better offers than ESO. (and here I compare what you can buy monthly in a f2p vs. What you get from the sub in ESO).
BUT - If ESO was B2P, it would in my opinion stand better than Guild Wars 2, simply because this is better. But not "worth-a-sub" better.
TL:DR I think b2p would make this game big, and p2p can eventually go ahead and kill the game.
Despite my criticism of the game, its far from the worst MMO out there. All in all it is fairly average in all regards. The problem being that the IP deserved a lot better.
Yeh I don't "hate" ESO and there are indeed other worse MMOs out there. I'm just very disappointed with what they did to the make it an MMO. Some movies aren't meant to have sequels and some single player games aren't meant to be MMOs.
And the thing thats upsetting is they are trying to market and profit as much as they can.
I guess they can and will do that.
But that just says hey...industry...we can do this see? try it. Like they have been doing the whole time.
When i'm browsing the different forums on Mmorpg.com i've come to a conclusion; there's a general consensus against subscriptions based models. People are treating the 15 dollars (which is -nothing-) as if it'll make you eat catfood instead of regular food. I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that is because people don't see the reasoning behind a sub model.
Please tell me what is the reasoning behind the sub model, besides an obvious cash grab? Let's say that the game has 1 million people paying and playing, that's not too hard to believe considering WoW's numbers. At 15 dollars a month per person, that's 15 million dollars a month they're making. What exactly do they need with that sort of cash? Are servers really that expensive to run? Other games can keep them running indefinitely without a sub fee, so it can't be that. Are they making constant content? Nope, not seeing it. And if they do make more content, chances are they'll be charging you for it as an expansion pack, so that's even more cash in their pockets..
Sorry, really not seeing the reasoning at all. Do enlighten me.
Are those 'frozen in time' npcs still standing around? You know, the ones outside the temple, looking as if they're in a battle or having something interesting happen in their little unit, but are just frozen there. That was so bad. I still can't believe they let something like that reach release.
I guess they need to pay their employees ..electric bills..distributors..waste disposal...server maintenance... The list goes on. Especially if its a big company like Blizzard..but its all relative. It doesnt matter if a developers staff is huge or a handful ...people always have something to complain about. Even me i guess. I prefer sub fees games over f2p most times but I'm glad there are both. Now i can pay for my favorites and still cheat on them every once and a while with a f2p..putting in as much or as little as I care.
Specifically for ESO...I liked it and have pre-ordered and will sub initially. I was one of the few who apparently encountered no bugs during 2 beta weekends. I think a sub is justified until you grow tired or run out of stuff to do..or you enjoy doing.. then just stop paying. I don't think they are nearly the "cash grab" as a F2P game. I don't see how anyone could but to each their own.
I tried to play again this last beta to see what is past lvl 6 but another 22GB downloads and with so many games I'm currently enjoying and spending my time in, was easy to not even care about giving it another chance.
I think this is called a healthy market at work only the best and most adaptable survive. Hopefully some bad games will disappear, some companies will be bankrupt other will be fired and new ideas and new people will join developling new and interesting MMOs.
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OP, I don't hate it, but there are "features" in it that I do hate enough to call them gamebreaking, for example not getting more bank slots when playing multiple characters. Also, the cash shop combined with forcing you to buy the Imperial Edition if you want access to all classes, are both huge turnoffs for me.
Today and yesterday I've received mails from several web shops offering discounts on this game, ie GMG ($9 off for standard ed, and $12 for imp ed). And that's before the game is even released. Makes me wonder...
When i'm browsing the different forums on Mmorpg.com i've come to a conclusion; there's a general consensus against subscriptions based models. People are treating the 15 dollars (which is -nothing-) as if it'll make you eat catfood instead of regular food. I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that is because people don't see the reasoning behind a sub model.
Please tell me what is the reasoning behind the sub model, besides an obvious cash grab? Let's say that the game has 1 million people paying and playing, that's not too hard to believe considering WoW's numbers. At 15 dollars a month per person, that's 15 million dollars a month they're making. What exactly do they need with that sort of cash? Are servers really that expensive to run? Other games can keep them running indefinitely without a sub fee, so it can't be that. Are they making constant content? Nope, not seeing it. And if they do make more content, chances are they'll be charging you for it as an expansion pack, so that's even more cash in their pockets..
Sorry, really not seeing the reasoning at all. Do enlighten me.
Running the server is one thing, making future content is another. A game of this scope has up to 200(!) developers in motion. The development cost has been around 200 million dollars, they have to sell around 3,33 million copies just to break even. An Mmorpg is not done once it's released, at that point developers are supposed to use the sub based funding on making an expansion, paying their salaries, renting a huge location to host 200 developers, rent actors to play new characters, new writers to create lore etc. and still have just enough profit to keep the stock owners from killing their livelyhood. Free to play games doesn't have a huge development team, they have a small team focused on releasing small patches, because that's all they can afford to make.
If you want future content to be large scale updates with huge new areas to explore, along with great actors and new features like housing, new classes, new tradeskills etc..You'll need to keep funding them, or all you'll get is mediocre content, played through in under a week..like SWTOR..The content they've released isn't bad..but after such a long time they've hardly released anything -new- besides 1 planet with a tiny handful of zones and a constrained dog fighting module (new instances and stuff, but that's just patchwork). Compare that to expansions like The burning crusade, and you'll see the difference in what a game with or without sub based funding can achieve
It was not 200 millions, they rejected that idea a long time ago... but yes they cost a lot and for them to make more they must make a profit.
They could lower the sub to 10$ and still make one at this point as there are really no server related costs compared to the first MMO`s however they will never agree to make less money.
Also, the more they make the higher the chance other MMO`s will be made.
The price is not fair for everyone as some earn more and some less.... but let`s face it no MMO company can do anything about that. For countries like the US, EU, Australia, NZ, etc. its a fair price as everyone there with a job will be able to afford it and that is what they were going for.
Some will like it and some won`t. I have mixed feeling about the game as in i know i`ll get it, the question is when, at launch or 3 - 6 months later...
I think 8-10 weeks more dev time would make this game great...of course that time frame is completely arbitrary since I've never made a game. It just seems like it needs more time in the over before its ready to serve the masses.
its certainly not a bad mmo, but there are lots of things that i dint understand from Zenimax.
The oldschool UI elements The Interface The Inventory Horrible animations for both casting and walking Impact of your damage is almost invisible Doing pvp and shooting your enemy without seeing if you hit it or missed your shot kinda sucks major balls. Realy hard to target their healer/'s when people stack up, imposible tbh. Locking Imperial Race + Gear away behind a collectors edition while also asking a subscription....... I heared the Horse you get with it is also the fastest horse ingame so for pvp its kinda mandatory to have that stuff (not 100% sure about it tough)
Then the weird decision to let you start out with sword and all kinds of strange phasing bugs or quest mobs / items not spawning. Yes it was beta and maybe it get all fixed within those few days ( wich i think is imposible)
These are but a handfull of things that made me turn away from ESO. It might get better after launch, and maybe i will pick it up in the future. But i will not buy another mmo like all the previous one's that go flat on their face 3 months after release and drop half the price or even go Free to Play.
My guts is telling me that this will be SWTOR all over again. And i payed SWTOR 2x for me and the lady as it costed me 180 euro.....no sir not going to happen
But !!! it might turn out to be a good mmo in time so who knows Wait and see is my advise, unless you have plenty of money laying around and no kids ripping you off each day
The horse is not the fastest, just clarifying that for you, it's just a basic starter horse. You can upgrade ANY horse to be faster by feeding it a certain type of food each day and increasing its speed with each feeding til you reach the maximum.
I read alot about this game the last couple of days, including what people thought about the beta.
Either people love it (the minority as it seems so far), and the rest just hates it.
Are there no one inbetween?
I didn't think the game was bad - I was actually having a blast. At start, I really hated the first 6 levels, but after that it became a little bit more interesting. I have to admit though, that the problem for me is, the content in ESO doesn't justify a sub - which is the only reason I wouldn't buy the game. I would buy in an instant, if it was b2p.
But why would I pay sub for other games, but not ESO when both are MMOs?
Because in a p2p world, there's better offer than ESO. Even in f2p there's better offers than ESO. (and here I compare what you can buy monthly in a f2p vs. What you get from the sub in ESO).
BUT - If ESO was B2P, it would in my opinion stand better than Guild Wars 2, simply because this is better. But not "worth-a-sub" better.
TL:DR I think b2p would make this game big, and p2p can eventually go ahead and kill the game.
1 question OP how much of content have we see under beta phase to me knowledge 3 place of each faction the starting isles and 2 more place and you are worry about content we have maybe 2% of the game and you tell me that ESO should do B2P instead of P2P if P2P is so bad why do WoW still have P2P????
I would like to say dont judge game for what you have in need beta for honest a beta dont justify game and anyone that have been on mmo circus for some year now should know this by now.
I have no mix feeling at all to be total honest i have more mix feel about what path WoW is head then if P2P will kill ESO atlest Zenimax is honest about what the are doing to there game that is more then i can say for Blizzard for Blizzard say the cash shop was for Asian market and look at WoW now both EU and US have cash shop.
Running the server is one thing, making future content is another. A game of this scope has up to 200(!) developers in motion. <snipsnip>
Compare that to expansions like The burning crusade, and you'll see the difference in what a game with or without sub based funding can achieve
Let's assume the developers are paid $1000 a week, which is a ridiculous amount of money so obviously isn't their true wage, but let's go with that assumption. $1000 x 4 = $4000 a month x 200 = $800,000. So that's that done, now what are they doing with the other $14.2 million a month?
What I'm reading from your post is that they've gone way overbudget and are hoping the sub fee will make up for the shortfall. Not the wisest business decision in history - see SWTOR for details.
Yay another Am I the only one......zzzzzzz thread. Yes you are, feel better? Lol. I disagree with you with regard with who is the majority and who is the minority. Just because you see a lot of hate threads from .000001% of who will be buying the game doesn't make an accurate sample. In addition, if you scan through the polls that have been posted here, almost every one is overwhelmingly in support of the game and on this site that's saying something. The vocal minority are the haters. Also, the feedback I saw in chat while in beta was also mostly in support of the game, so not sure where you are getting this from.
Running the server is one thing, making future content is another. A game of this scope has up to 200(!) developers in motion. The development cost has been around 200 million dollars, they have to sell around 3,33 million copies just to break even. An Mmorpg is not done once it's released, at that point developers are supposed to use the sub based funding on making an expansion, paying their salaries, renting a huge location to host 200 developers, rent actors to play new characters, new writers to create lore etc. and still have just enough profit to keep the stock owners from killing their livelyhood. Free to play games doesn't have a huge development team, they have a small team focused on releasing small patches, because that's all they can afford to make.
If you want future content to be large scale updates with huge new areas to explore, along with great actors and new features like housing, new classes, new tradeskills etc..You'll need to keep funding them, or all you'll get is mediocre content, played through in under a week..like SWTOR..
This very much sums up why a subscription based model makes sense and why it is worth the investment. I prefer calling the subscription fee an investment, because in the end you invest in the future fun you will have with this game.
Unfortunately, the postings in this forum proof that there are just too many avaricious players who simply are to dumb to understand this simple correlation.
Originally posted by keithian Yay another Am I the only one......zzzzzzz thread. Yes you are, feel better? Lol. I disagree with you with regard with who is the majority and who is the minority. Just because you see a lot of hate threads from .000001% of who will be buying the game doesn't make an accurate sample. In addition, if you scan through the polls that have been posted here, almost every one is overwhelmingly in support of the game and on this site that's saying something. The vocal minority are the haters. Also, the feedback I saw in chat while in beta was also mostly in support of the game, so not sure where you are getting this from.
Tbh, I only frequent this forum for entertainment and troll-spotting, lol.
If I want to get a feel for "true public opinion" regarding ESO, I look at the Reddit ESO subforum, which has far more activity than this forum, and frequently contains useful info *gasp* and actual reasonable discussions.
Comments
If you want to see a dead world...go play SWTOR.
OP, I don't hate it, but there are "features" in it that I do hate enough to call them gamebreaking, for example not getting more bank slots when playing multiple characters. Also, the cash shop combined with forcing you to buy the Imperial Edition if you want access to all classes, are both huge turnoffs for me.
Today and yesterday I've received mails from several web shops offering discounts on this game, ie GMG ($9 off for standard ed, and $12 for imp ed). And that's before the game is even released. Makes me wonder...
Not sure why that would make you wonder, Steam as an example frequently has sales on their pre-orders.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Great post.
+1
And one more thing, about the stupid horse. You get one for free if you do the intro quest to cyrodiil at level 10
I never did read about this in any forum or in the chat ingame and I did a lot of quests i.e. quests how to use siege weapons and so on which you get from the general/officer the first time you enter cyrodiil.
Thats new for me, where do you get this quest ?
It's like asking "am i the only one feeling this question is kinda silly? " which is kinda silly imo.
ofcourse there are alot of people with mixed feeling about almost every game. Just post your feeling or opinion about this game without asking a question with an obvious answer in the title might be better i think.
ESO does something right, maybe better than alot of games in some part, but it has some serious flaws, at least in the recent version we've just played. id say its possiblly the typical game most people would have mixed feeling with.
And the thing thats upsetting is they are trying to market and profit as much as they can.
I guess they can and will do that.
But that just says hey...industry...we can do this see? try it. Like they have been doing the whole time.
Please tell me what is the reasoning behind the sub model, besides an obvious cash grab? Let's say that the game has 1 million people paying and playing, that's not too hard to believe considering WoW's numbers. At 15 dollars a month per person, that's 15 million dollars a month they're making. What exactly do they need with that sort of cash? Are servers really that expensive to run? Other games can keep them running indefinitely without a sub fee, so it can't be that. Are they making constant content? Nope, not seeing it. And if they do make more content, chances are they'll be charging you for it as an expansion pack, so that's even more cash in their pockets..
Sorry, really not seeing the reasoning at all. Do enlighten me.
Are those 'frozen in time' npcs still standing around? You know, the ones outside the temple, looking as if they're in a battle or having something interesting happen in their little unit, but are just frozen there. That was so bad. I still can't believe they let something like that reach release.
I guess they need to pay their employees ..electric bills..distributors..waste disposal...server maintenance... The list goes on. Especially if its a big company like Blizzard..but its all relative. It doesnt matter if a developers staff is huge or a handful ...people always have something to complain about. Even me i guess. I prefer sub fees games over f2p most times but I'm glad there are both. Now i can pay for my favorites and still cheat on them every once and a while with a f2p..putting in as much or as little as I care.
Specifically for ESO...I liked it and have pre-ordered and will sub initially. I was one of the few who apparently encountered no bugs during 2 beta weekends. I think a sub is justified until you grow tired or run out of stuff to do..or you enjoy doing.. then just stop paying. I don't think they are nearly the "cash grab" as a F2P game. I don't see how anyone could but to each their own.
I tried to play again this last beta to see what is past lvl 6 but another 22GB downloads and with so many games I'm currently enjoying and spending my time in, was easy to not even care about giving it another chance.
I think this is called a healthy market at work only the best and most adaptable survive. Hopefully some bad games will disappear, some companies will be bankrupt other will be fired and new ideas and new people will join developling new and interesting MMOs.
ASROCK Z97 E-ITX
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Gigabyte 1070 8GB Mini OC
16GB Crucial 1333mhz 1.3V
SWG 8 Year Vet, WW2OL 8 Year Vet.
Aka Darksparrow Rancorheart(tempest/farstar), Fxmkorp
Good call 510 free spots to store loot
Running the server is one thing, making future content is another. A game of this scope has up to 200(!) developers in motion. The development cost has been around 200 million dollars, they have to sell around 3,33 million copies just to break even. An Mmorpg is not done once it's released, at that point developers are supposed to use the sub based funding on making an expansion, paying their salaries, renting a huge location to host 200 developers, rent actors to play new characters, new writers to create lore etc. and still have just enough profit to keep the stock owners from killing their livelyhood. Free to play games doesn't have a huge development team, they have a small team focused on releasing small patches, because that's all they can afford to make.
If you want future content to be large scale updates with huge new areas to explore, along with great actors and new features like housing, new classes, new tradeskills etc..You'll need to keep funding them, or all you'll get is mediocre content, played through in under a week..like SWTOR..The content they've released isn't bad..but after such a long time they've hardly released anything -new- besides 1 planet with a tiny handful of zones and a constrained dog fighting module (new instances and stuff, but that's just patchwork). Compare that to expansions like The burning crusade, and you'll see the difference in what a game with or without sub based funding can achieve
It was not 200 millions, they rejected that idea a long time ago... but yes they cost a lot and for them to make more they must make a profit.
They could lower the sub to 10$ and still make one at this point as there are really no server related costs compared to the first MMO`s however they will never agree to make less money.
Also, the more they make the higher the chance other MMO`s will be made.
The price is not fair for everyone as some earn more and some less.... but let`s face it no MMO company can do anything about that. For countries like the US, EU, Australia, NZ, etc. its a fair price as everyone there with a job will be able to afford it and that is what they were going for.
Some will like it and some won`t. I have mixed feeling about the game as in i know i`ll get it, the question is when, at launch or 3 - 6 months later...
1st weekend - Wow... this sucks.
2nd weekend - Cryodiil is pretty cool. Mixed feelings
in between - Man, when's the next beta weekend?
I think 8-10 weeks more dev time would make this game great...of course that time frame is completely arbitrary since I've never made a game. It just seems like it needs more time in the over before its ready to serve the masses.
The horse is not the fastest, just clarifying that for you, it's just a basic starter horse. You can upgrade ANY horse to be faster by feeding it a certain type of food each day and increasing its speed with each feeding til you reach the maximum.
This IS a sub-game.. not a f2p.. stop whine about they taking a monthly fee.. like it or not, but dont judge the game because of it.
Either you can afford the sub and you buy it, or you cannot and you dont buy it, get over it ffs.
1 question OP how much of content have we see under beta phase to me knowledge 3 place of each faction the starting isles and 2 more place and you are worry about content we have maybe 2% of the game and you tell me that ESO should do B2P instead of P2P if P2P is so bad why do WoW still have P2P????
I would like to say dont judge game for what you have in need beta for honest a beta dont justify game and anyone that have been on mmo circus for some year now should know this by now.
I have no mix feeling at all to be total honest i have more mix feel about what path WoW is head then if P2P will kill ESO atlest Zenimax is honest about what the are doing to there game that is more then i can say for Blizzard for Blizzard say the cash shop was for Asian market and look at WoW now both EU and US have cash shop.
Let's assume the developers are paid $1000 a week, which is a ridiculous amount of money so obviously isn't their true wage, but let's go with that assumption. $1000 x 4 = $4000 a month x 200 = $800,000. So that's that done, now what are they doing with the other $14.2 million a month?
What I'm reading from your post is that they've gone way overbudget and are hoping the sub fee will make up for the shortfall. Not the wisest business decision in history - see SWTOR for details.
There Is Always Hope!
This very much sums up why a subscription based model makes sense and why it is worth the investment. I prefer calling the subscription fee an investment, because in the end you invest in the future fun you will have with this game.
Unfortunately, the postings in this forum proof that there are just too many avaricious players who simply are to dumb to understand this simple correlation.
Tbh, I only frequent this forum for entertainment and troll-spotting, lol.
If I want to get a feel for "true public opinion" regarding ESO, I look at the Reddit ESO subforum, which has far more activity than this forum, and frequently contains useful info *gasp* and actual reasonable discussions.