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Zenimax got it wrong.
Aliantha_Angel
Member UncommonPosts: 225
*I expect flames, but please read so you actually know what you're flaming*
As a point of reference, I have been beta testing the game since last September, I am an outspoken advocate of the game, I bought the game, I plan to subscribe long term regardless of how smooth launch is or is not. As much of a fan as I am, I'm also not blind and have to be honest. That said, there's nothing game-breaking in my post below and really nothing intended to, or that should, scare anyone away. I actually spent the last 3 betas doing nothing but standing around in starter areas helping new players find their footing. That doesn't make me great or special but I anticipate that if I'm going to be critical people are going to wonder what my perspective is and if I am just calling it as I see it or looking to troll.
Zenimax always said they were not going to have an open beta, and while they didn't in the traditional sense, they kinda just did. There are stories that the PTS has a much more updated version of the game that doesn't have all the bugs this weekend's beta does, and maybe that's true, maybe it isn't. I'm not in a position to know the truth or say it's false so I'll leave it at "maybe".
If the PTS is ahead of the game, that's great, BUT, Zenimax made a big mistake in my opinion. You simply cannot invite 5 million people, 2 weeks before launch (March 30 for preorders with 5 day head start) and have that many quests broken, horse dismounts, invisible walls, getting locked in crafting or NPC dialogue, etc.. This beta was infinitely more buggy than the last two. I totally get that it's still beta and 2 weeks can lead to many fixes and a PTS server may already b cleaner, BUT, and here's where the big mistake comes in...
The truth is that MOST beta testers are NOT beta testers. They are people out looking for a free sample. They play the game as if it's the final model, base their purchase on how clean it is, and tell their friends to come or stay away based upon it. Whether Zenimax intended to be giving out 5 million very bugged free samples, it's what they did and was a bad idea. There are many of us who already bought or saw enough to go ahead an buy anyway, but there are a lot off people who will now stay away for a month, a few months, or completely. It was really bad marketing of an excellent product in its less than clean state.
ESO is a great game and I plan to enjoy it for a long time, but unless you're bringing in 5 million real beta testers whose only intent is to find and report bugs, you're shooting yourself in the foot to expose that many people to a build far inferior to older beta versions.
Just my 2 cents, your experience may differ.
Comments
I agree with you OP. Their next big chance of getting more players is when they release the "Try the first 10 levels for free" or whatever the trial will be called.
I think the beta of the last weekend disappointed both a lot of Elders Scrolls fans but also a lot of MMO fans. And all those disappointed people have friends and family. Please note I'm not saying they only disappointed players but based on the responses from various forums on the net, they disappointed at least a substantial group of potential players.
Have to agree with you. If ZOS invites 5 million beta users, they need to have control of things. This beta was not one of the best, and it might have lead to a bad expression to many who didn't play the earlier beta's.
I love the game, and think it will keep me attached for a long time, but the above might scare some people away. Not a good strategy from ZOS.
It's not a matter of confusion. Patch notes can say anything. I'm have not seen it for myself so I'm not taking a side on whether it's accurate or not. I'm going to be playing anyway so I'm not concerned. My point was that epic tales of a better version don't matter to the millions of people who don't really understand the point of beta and are breaking their mice in frustration and flaming the game.
I've been beta testing as far back as Ultima Online so I get it, but inviting everyone and their grandma to see the game in that state wasn't a great idea from a marketing standpoint.
OP
Well said.
Game retention will be lower than it needs to be because the game is terribly unpolished.This is exacerbated because of the subscription requirement.
This ^
Beta testing is the new trial. I love the game and will be playing it as soon as the servers are up, but your post is right on.
It is in truth not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are fighting, but for freedom for that alone, which no honest man gives up but with life itself. ~Declaration of Arbroath
Hey now! Don't log in for a few minutes after the servers go up, I want to be first!
Yeah, sadly, people act like beta is an entitlement and should allow them to play through every quest and every level prior to launch. I can't even count the number of times people were b*thcing in chat about this bug or that bug and when I'd kindly suggest using the /bug feature I'd get flamed. Of course I just saw a commercial on TV from Best Buy where the employees take home hardware to learn how to use it before they sell it and they claim they are "beta testing" the stuff. I don't think many people actually understand what that means or what the point is anymore.
I completely agree, the problem is this beta had tons more bugs than the previous beta so while it's a necessity, it might have been better to do the beta this coming weekend and not using the build they chose. It means nothing to me either way since the only sun and moon(s) I will likely see for the month of April will be on my computer screen, but it mean a lot to the perception of potential buyers.
The quests didnt need fixing they were never broken. The SYSTEM is broken. Either phasing or layering. There are rarely problems on the PTS server with mobs not respawning, or NPCS and clicky item not phasing properly, because there arent many layers in the PTS server.
But yes there are some bugs. the HUD/UI bug is worse than ever now. The freezing for 2-5 seconds every minute (for a lot of people not all) is a major concern too. Dismounting on your horse, the ESC button not working etc.
But most of the open world and quests stuff can be attributed mainly to phasing/layering probelms. Which will most definitely exist when launch happens.
As for the 5 million. How many people created multiple emails to put in dozens if not 100+ beta invites? I would be shocked if there were more than 500K INDIVIDUAL people who played on any one server in any of these betas. They know the numbers but they would never release them. The number of concurrent player online at the same time is the most telling factor, they know that too. I would be interested in seeing them, but again they would never release them. But going by the 20% 'rule" which might be upped to maybe even 40% for a short term beta youre looking at maybe 200K people online on one server at the same time. Considering the limited number of maps beta gave access to that is impressive, but I am sure some people think there were a million people online at one time (highly unlikely). Either way it isnt any wonder theyre having problems. Thats a lot of people crammed into a few areas. But it is still not as many as one would expect on launch day.
This game is unique in that aspect. Although they have said theyre going to have over flow servers so that might clear things up a lot. I suspect over flow servers wont have nearly the phasing and layering issues the main server has. If they employed these over flow servers during the beta (I would say they have but they didnt tell us) then that would explain why some people had no difficulties with so much stuff while others were mired and stymied a majority of the time.
So in essence play quality will depend on whether youre on the main server or an over flow server, where being on the overflow server will likely give a better experience because fewer people are there, but more than enough to accomplish any goals those first couple maps require.
If you didn't like the game, try typing "/reloadui". That solved all kinds of issues for me, some seemingly completely unrelated to the UI. Even money it'll make you like the game.
Open betas nowadays are either stress tests for the servers and initial zones, or plain old marketing demos. Once you open the game up to the masses you don't expect test feedback anymore. Most people just want to try the game for free. The few who do report bugs will probably all report the same 5 bugs described a million different ways plus 10,000 bugs that really aren't bugs, but things about the game/mechanics/UI/quest they didn't understand.
The "beta" in "open beta" is just covering for the bugs that haven't been fixed yet.
Which is true when you hand out a lot of (Free Beta Keys) a lot of players are looking for a free sample of the game and then they will make a decision of where to buy the game or not.
I am honestly still undecided because the fact that the developers did not take my feed-back from over a month ago seriously I made many suggestions, I told them please add these features, please make it sand-box based nope they didn't listen.
The game did improve quite a bit in my view, but there are likely still a lot of bugs, to be honest every since my first 24 hours of playing the game over 4 weeks ago when the game was under NDA I said if the game stays like this if the developers do not listen to me I am not paying for the game I will wait for Free 2 Play if I even play it then.
While the game has improved its not good enough for me to feel like spending $100 to purchase the collectors $15 a month on the game there is many improvements that the developers could have made along with fixing these bugs.
Releasing a Game, for the public to test in this state was a big Let-Down, No seriously you gave out hundreds of beta keys or more to testers, and you showed everyone how limited your class system is, how I can't freely change my class on a single character and how the game isn't total freedom like Skyrim how its got locked classes/schools only thing not locked is weapon skills, but how I am limited to crafting and making all my skills and such.
I bet a lot of people are going to avoid this game, While I still haven't fully made up my mind I have still not purchased the game yet I am waiting for maybe something better.
Yeah. And sadly the quest bugs were worse and many more quests that were fine before were bugged this weekend (started a new character in a zone I knew well to check out the new way of starting) and they all seem to have a related bug: spawning of npc or item was bugged. It was also happening with mundus stone and I even had it with a couple of missing sky shard beams.
Previous weekends we could just relog, wait a minute and relog into a new working version of the area...but that hardly ever worked this weekend leading me to believe that whatever the common problem is, it was happening more often since many versions of the same area had the same bug.
And you're right, the vast majority of people playing on weekends were there primarily just to have a look...and what they saw was many broken quests - that didn't do them any good from a PR perspective.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
Interesting points and while I agree on most (well except the number of players , both servers were packed EVERYWHERE), I think you are assuming that performance (and hardware) will be the same on launch than they were in the stress week end. i doubt it, stress tests are to see the limits and avoid problems at launch.
A wise gamer knows to wait so all the fools get to debug a beta, oops I mean a fully launched game. I and others I know personally, will wait at least a month before joining the game and none of us preordered the game. That should give the dev team time to fix most of the issues.
Roses are red
Violets are blue
The reviewer has a mishapen head
Which means his opinion is skewed
...Aldous.MF'n.Huxley
Maybe it's just a personal defense system but I'm going to have to take issue with you on only fools preorder video games. May I suggest an edit to:
Only fools preorder video games and expect them to be perfect at launch.
Can you live with that? I preordered and I have zero regrets. I also won't have any regrets if launch has issues. I am fully aware of the reality of launches and early stages of games, but I still want to play even a buggy version of this more than anything else out there. I still might be a fool, but I don't think everyone who preorders is foolish if their expectations aren't foolish.
I've been beta testing as far back as Ultima Online so I get it, but inviting everyone and their grandma to see the game in that state wasn't a great idea from a marketing standpoint.
You throw Ultima around a lot so I did some research. Here's what I found.
ULTIMA ONLINE HAD NO BETA!
The only betas were : Enhanced Client
A modified version of the Kingdom Reborn client, renamed as the "Enhanced Client," was introduced as part of the Stygian Abyss expansion. It was released as an open beta in July 2009 and the changes included enhanced macro abilities, a more configurable interface, changes to the mapping system, and graphical improvements.[33] The enhanced graphics of the Kingdom Reborn client had been retired in favor of lower resolution original graphics that more closely resembled the original 2D client. This graphic set was based on the Third Dawn client and was previously available in the Kingdom Reborn client as optional original graphics.
and : In May 1996, Ultima Online: Shattered Legacy is shown at the 1996 E3 Expo. Then, in August 1997, Lord British had an unfortunate accident. While giving a speech to a bright-eyed Britannian crowd, the King was engulfed in flames and spent some time in the realm of the dead. He was killed by Rainz, who was later banned from the game for reasons unrelated to the killing. Later, with the aid of his companions, he was revived and finished his speech, much to the delight of those in attendance.[34][35]
September 1997 was the last day of the original beta test. The beta ended with a bang, as players were treated to an "end of the world" scenario with Shadowlords, demons, and other evil creatures slaughtering every character in sight. Ultima Online opened its doors to the public.[36] In 1998, the game expanded, and the number of users reached over 100,000 worldwide. In 1999, the game expanded to Japan in January, to Europe in May, and to South Korea in July.
Source : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultima_Online
So only 2 expansions were tested publicaly for beta.
One closed(1997) and one open(2009)
The official game never had "outside" beta testing or "public" testing.
I'm not calling you out. Just clairify first so people don't look it up, like I did, and lose credibility.
Now I do agree with your post op. I have yet to see any "patch notes" for a build we have not tested yet.
I was getting pissed yesterday because the quests were bugged to death and for some reason my character would swing to death and the enemy would still be standing there looking at me like, "duh". lol
You aren't calling me out, I was in the beta test. I actually have a still active account that was created the day UO launched and I had been part of the last beta in 1997 (I'm an old fart - good thing this isn't Logan's Run!) so it's fine if people look it up. Having been beta testing that long doesn't make me special, I only use it as a reference that I have experienced betas going back a very long way when they were quite different than now.
Yeah this weekend was tough because I actuallye xpected to see some of the naggy bugs like <esc> and getting locked in crafting fixed and then to be falling through the world and have previously fine quests bugged was annoying. I have a plan for launch though in case these issues still persist so as long as I can connect and stay online I am set to be happy :-)
I wouldn't be surprised if Zenimax wishes they had decided on a June 1 launch date, but I think the repercussions of moving it back would be very high. People want what they want, and they want it now, especially if it was promised to them. Lots of people couldn't care less for excuses or the honest intent to release something better and having to wait a little longer than expected. The gnashing of teeth and wringing of hands if they set the date back would be unimaginable.
The recent beta tests were to test server stability, Zenimax has even said this publicly. It's not to test the client. The final game client is already finished and being packed into boxes as we speak...
I would not be surprised the next time you open up your launcher and it starts to download, it will be a huge download, because the beta client is being replaced by the launch client. I can remember when the "server test" client was rolled out a month or so ago that there was like a 6gb update, this signifies a change in the client's purpose. Where only the core of the game was leftover, but many things they wanted to test were changed or added in, like npc collision and the like.
I'm not going to say you're wrong or right since neither of us work for Zenimax and can't truly know that. But let's assume you're correct. If that's true, then why did the previous beta client that was also used strictly to test server stability have so many less bugs. Why were quests that were not broken now broken?
You can't say that it's because they used an older client to test the stability because this client had collision detection for the very first time, so it was a newer build.
I think your post is what you would like to be true, and for that matter what I would like to be true as well. We won't know for 13 days. That said, my OP was not being critical of there being bugs it was being critical of inviting the masses to see a bug-filled client at a time when people are deciding whether or not to buy.
Here, come taste my new spaghetti sauce. It's not as good as the one I had you test last week, and this one tastes really strongly of vinegar, but ignore that because the stuff I have in the jars ready to ship is perfect. This vinegar-laden one is just to test how well it stays on the spoon.